Jump to content

What Everyone Actually Means When They Say 'token System'?


Recommended Posts

Hey everyone,

 

RNG topics are constant on the Warframe forums, and one thing is almost guaranteed to pop up at some point in the discussion, that is the mention of a 'token system'. 

However, the majority of these posts don't actually detail what that is, or what that particular player means when they say it.

 

There's plenty of different token systems out there, and for me, Final Fantasy XIV does it right.

 

In FF XIV, running high level dungeons grant two things (depending on the dungeon)

1. Tomestones of Philosophy

2. Tomestones of Mythology

 

These are used to purchase endgame gear such as Darklight armour.

 

Example: Darklight chest armour costs 825 Philosophy tomes. Running a dungeon will grant you 100 of these 'tokens'.

So, that's 9 runs for you to get the most expensive piece of Darklight armour.

It might sound like a lot, but 9 runs is absolutely fine if you are guaranteed to get the armour you're looking for.

 

Now, Mythology Tomestones act in the same way, but you get far less from a dungeon, somewhere around ~40. These Tomes are used to buy very high level endgame gear.

 

However, dungeons will also drop their own unique gear and accessories. Meaning, you are dealing with RNG and loot rolls while you are in the dungeon, but you still have the ability to purchase armour with the Tomes you get upon completion.

 

Now, why am I talking about FF XIV? Because that's the type of system I would like to see in Warframe.

Example:

You've just finished doing 20 runs of a T3 Exterminate for a Dakra Blade, with no luck. Each time you finish a run, you are getting 3 'Orokin Salvage' (Random name). 

You can go to a section in the market (or maybe even a room in the dojo) to exchange this salvage for parts.

 

So, while you run Void missions, you can still get lucky and receive the part you are looking for, but if you don't get it, you can go to this store once you get enough salvage.

 

However, like in FF XIV, I think there should be 2 types of tokens.

Tier I and II Void missions grant "damaged Orokin Salvage", while Tier III grants "Orokin Salvage".

Damaged Salvage can only be used to purchase the lower rarity items such as Chassis (or whatever the Ember Prime common equivalent is)

The tier III salvage can be used to buy the rarer items such as the Dakra Blade.

 

This prevents players from just stomping through tier I missions and getting tonnes of salvage to buy everything.

 

Now, obviously Final Fantasy XIV has a LOT more content than Warframe, so it'd need to be tweaked. But, to me, that's the kind of 'token system' that I would like to see in Warframe.

That would be a massive step in improving the game (imo), the system is completely fair to the player unlike the current RNG systems.

 

That's my interpretation of the perfect token system, but I'm interested in hearing what everyone else's idea of what a 'token system' actually defines.

 

There's plenty of types out there.

There's ones that let you sell parts for tokens, ones that let you use tokens to gamble on items (Please, for the love of God, no!), etc, etc.

 

So, all in all, there's 2 questions I want to ask

1. What do you think of the FF XIV token system being implemented in Warframe?

2. What is your interpretation of a token system when a player mentions it on the forums?

 

Let me put one thing into perspective

 

I remember someone replying to a token system thread where they said that it just gives players the ability to grind for a couple of days and own everything.

Let me put this into perspective.\

 

Let me toss out some random numbers and costs for the purpose of this thread

 

Tier 1 = 1 damaged Orokin Salvage

Tier 2 = 2 damaged Orokin Salvage

Tier 3 = 3 Orokin Salvage

 

Common parts = 10 Damaged Orokin Salvage

Uncommon parts = 20 Damaged Orokin Salvage

Rare parts = 30 Orokin Salvage

 

I'm generalising and I could have the rarities wrong, so bear with me.

 

Warframes

Mag Prime - 4 Parts

Mag Prime Chassis - Common

Mag Prime Helmet - Common

Mag Prime Systems - Rare

Mag Prime Blueprint - Uncommon

 

Total salvage needed - 40 damaged, 30 normal.

 

Frost Prime - 4 Parts

Frost Prime Chassis - Common

Frost Prime Helmet - Common

Frost Prime Systems - Rare

Frost Prime Blueprint - Uncommon

 

Total salvage needed - 40 damaged, 30 normal.

 

Ember Prime - 4 Parts

Ember Prime Chassis - Common

Ember Prime Helmet - Common

Ember Prime Systems - Rare

Ember Prime Blueprint - Uncommon

 

Total salvage needed - 40 damaged, 30 normal.

 

Weapons

Braton Prime - 3 Parts

Braton Prime Barrel - Common

Braton Prime Stock - Uncommon

Braton Prime Receiver - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 30 damaged, 30 normal.

 

Burston Prime

Burston Prime Barrel - Common

Burston Prime Stock - Uncommon

Burston Prime Receiver - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 30 damaged, 30 normal

 

Boar Prime

Boar Prime Barrel - Common

Boar Prime Stock - Uncommon

Boar Prime Receiver - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 30 damaged, 30 normal

 

Latron Prime

Latron Prime Barrel - Common

Latron Prime Stock - Uncommon

Latron Prime Receiver - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 30 damaged, 30 normal

 

Paris Prime

Paris Prime Upper Limb - Common

Paris Prime Lower Limb - Common

Paris Prime Grip - Uncommon

Paris Prime String - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 40 damaged, 30 normal

 

Bronco Prime

Bronco Prime Barrel - Uncommon

Bronco Prime Receiver - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 20 damaged, 30 normal

 

Sicarus Prime

Sicarus Prime Barrel - Uncommon

Sicarus Prime Receiver - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 20 damaged, 30 normal

 

Dakra Prime

Dakra Prime Handle - Uncommon

Dakra Prime Blade - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 20 damaged, 30 normal

Fang Prime

Fang Prime Handle x2 - Common

Fang Prime Blade x2- Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 40 damaged, 60 normal

 

Glaive Prime

Glaive Prime Blade x2 - Uncommon

Glaive Prime Disc - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 40 damaged, 30 normal

 

Orthos Prime

Orthos Prime Handle - Common

Orthos Prime blade x2 - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 10 damaged, 60 normal

 

Reaper Prime

Reaper Prime Handle - Uncommon

Reaper Prime Blade - Rare

 

Total salvage needed - 20 damaged, 30 normal

 

______________________________________

This leaves with us a grand total of the following

450 Damaged Orokin Salvage

510 Orokin Salvage

 

In other words, using optimal Void runs (T2 and T3), you would need the following (To buy every current part)

225 T2 runs

170 T3 runs

 

As you can see, a token system in Warframe would NOT be a viable way for players to just grind out for a few days and get everything.

It would be used for getting those few parts that just continue to elude you.

 

Before someone mentions Prime Access and people who stockpile Tokens and just instantly buy anything that gets added.

It's a fairly easy fix.

When new Prime gear is added, don't add them to the 'token market' right away.

Delay it by a couple of weeks, or even a month.

 

This means people who want to buy Prime Access for Prime gear can do so without worrying about others stockpiling tokens and buying them instantly.

When they are released, however, people can still try their hand at RNG until the new items are released on the markets.

 

The only way for a token system to work. As of 22/2/14

Plus one major plus of a token system

Seeing as DE has told us they don't care about players getting Prime gear quickly, a token system makes more sense than ever.

 

However, the only way it's going to work now is if DE completely removes Prime trading.

 

It can't work if players can simply go to trade chat and get everything they could possibly want.

 

If you've seen my latest posts, you will already know that I absolutely @(*()$ loathe Prime trading in its current incarnation.

It seems like nothing more than a band-aid for DE to shut up those who complain about RNG.

 

I can personally speak for many individuals who hated RNG, we did not want a way to instantly skip all RNG, we wanted a system that was fair, but still required some semblance of effort on the player's part.

This Prime trading nonsense requires no time dedication, no effort and no skill. It requires nothing. (or maybe a credit card if you don't want to play the market)

 

______________________

 

Now on to the other couple of things.

Some other major benefits of introducing a token system like my one.

 

1. It gets rid of DE's ability to ninja nerf the drop tables and shuffle them around without telling the players.

There are more than a few examples of DE doing sneaky S#&$ like this.

 

When the drop tables were datamined, DE encrypted them after it was known that several Prime parts had a 0.67% drop rate.

You can bet your &#! that when Ember/Glaive/Sicarus Prime came out, they had a similar drop rate as well.

 

Something else DE did after the datamining was shuffle the void rewards around.

This affected myself and many clan members.

Basically, all the wiki information was wrong.

 

I was running T3 Exterminates for a Dakra Blade for weeks (a good 100 runs), then DE (after like...2 @(*()$ months) decides to actually give some transparency on what missions drop what.

Guess what? I was running the wrong @(*()$ mission because DE refused to give players any shred of information, and shift around the drop tables without informing the players.

 

To me, this is one of the best things about a token system (and one that I am sure the devs know about, and are purposefully ignoring)

It takes away the dev's ability to sneakily shuffle things around and nerf drop rates.

Edited by Nugget_
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how is this different from any other token systems, regardless i will support any token idea as long as it gets implemented.

 

Just a footnote here, they should add a secondary objectives which would yield extra tokens,

something like raise alarm when entering certain room, or complete the objective under XY amount of time etc...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey everyone,

 

RNG topics are constant on the Warframe forums, and one thing is almost guaranteed to pop up at some point in the discussion, that is the mention of a 'token system'. 

However, the majority of these posts don't actually detail what that is, or what that particular player means when they say it.

 

There's plenty of different token systems out there, and for me, Final Fantasy XIV does it right.

 

In FF XIV, running high level dungeons grant you one of two things.

1. Tomestones of Philosophy

2. Tomestones of Mythology

 

These are used to purchase endgame gear such as Darklight armour.

 

Example: Darklight chest armour costs 825 Philosophy tomes. Running a dungeon will grant you 100 of these 'tokens'.

So, that's 9 runs for you to get the most expensive piece of Darklight armour.

It might sound like a lot, but 9 runs is absolutely fine if you are guaranteed to get the armour you're looking for.

 

Now, Mythology Tomestones act in the same way, but you get far less from a dungeon, somewhere around ~40. These Tomes are used to buy very high level endgame gear.

 

However, dungeons will also drop their own unique gear and accessories. Meaning, you are dealing with RNG and loot rolls while you are in the dungeon, but you still have the ability to purchase armour with the Tomes you get upon completion.

 

Now, why am I talking about FF XIV? Because that's the type of system I would like to see in Warframe.

Example:

You've just finished doing 20 runs of a T3 Exterminate for a Dakra Blade, with no luck. Each time you finish a run, you are getting 3 'Orokin Salvage' (Random name). 

You can go to a section in the market (or maybe even a room in the dojo) to exchange this salvage for parts.

 

So, while you run Void missions, you can still get lucky and receive the part you are looking for, but if you don't get it, you can go to this store once you get enough salvage.

 

However, like in FF XIV, I think there should be 2 types of tokens.

Tier I and II Void missions grant "damaged Orokin Salvage", while Tier III grants "Orokin Salvage".

Damaged Salvage can only be used to purchase the lower rarity items such as Chassis (or whatever the Ember Prime common equivalent is)

The tier III salvage can be used to buy the rarer items such as the Dakra Blade.

 

This prevents players from just stomping through tier I missions and getting tonnes of salvage to buy everything.

 

Now, obviously Final Fantasy XIV has a LOT more content than Warframe, so it'd need to be tweaked. But, to me, that's the kind of 'token system' that I would like to see in Warframe.

That would be a massive step in improving the game (imo), the system is completely fair to the player unlike the current RNG systems.

 

That's my interpretation of the perfect token system, but I'm interested in hearing what everyone else's idea of what a 'token system' actually defines.

 

There's plenty of types out there.

There's ones that let you sell parts for tokens, ones that let you use tokens to gamble on items (Please, for the love of God, no!), etc, etc.

 

So, all in all, there's 2 questions I want to ask

1. What do you think of the FF XIV token system being implemented in Warframe?

2. What is your interpretation of a token system when a player mentions it on the forums?

sounds l ike dfo to mee al so.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a good fix for the bosses.. let's be real, 3 runs to get all the blueprints (if you are lucky) is kinda meh isn't it?

You can pretty much do 10 runs on every boss in the game and have every frame in 1 day.

So yes.. a token system would be a nice replacement.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how is this different from any other token systems

I'm sure it's very similar to most MMORPGs out there (I've only really played GW2, FF XIV and a bunch of crappy F2P ones. I never bothered with endgame dungeons in GW2)

But, there's lots of different token systems out there, and most people don't explain what they mean when they mention it on the forums.

 

I'm just curious as to what other people's interpretations are.

Edited by Nugget_
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there's one big difference between FF XIV and Warframe : PTP vs FTP.

FF XIV could do this because players pay the monthly subscription fee, so it can be designed that way.

Square Enix won't care too much if players gathered all the equipment from the instances, because they still get paid.

They just have to contentiously release new instances so player will have new goals to play.

 

And Warframe is FTP game, you don't need to pay and you can get almost all stuff in game.

So if they release a token system, that would make players less tend to spend plats in game.

I think this is the main reason DE won't do this now, because this could potentially hurt their income.

The current design makes Warframe have to go RNG way.

 

And there's really not enough "end game content" in Warframe.

You know this, I know this, DE knows this.

They have to rely on RNG to slow you down, while they keep their pace to rushing new contents out / fixing bugs / adjusting balance , etc. 

 

So my humble opinion is that token system like FF XIV is a good one, but it won't be in Warframe anytime soon before there's more enough "end game content".

Which means even if a player gets all frames / weapons / mods, there still be things for him to do, to challenge for. (and add more "attractive things" that make you want to spend plats to buy)

I think that's when we'll get this token system.

 

On player's perspective: yes token system is good to have.

On DE's perspective: token system would only come when they can make sure player will still playing, and they can still making money.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there's one big difference between FF XIV and Warframe : PTP vs FTP.

FF XIV could do this because players pay the monthly subscription fee, so it can be designed that way.

Square Enix won't care too much if players gathered all the equipment from the instances, because they still get paid.

They just have to contentiously release new instances so player will have new goals to play.

 

And Warframe is FTP game, you don't need to pay and you can get almost all stuff in game.

So if they release a token system, that would make players less tend to spend plats in game.

You're absolutely right, FF XIV is a sub based game, Warframe is F2P.

 

However, the game is going to be hurt even more if they continue to add to and dilute the Void drop tables.

 

Not to mention that giving players a fair way to get Void drops will not stop them buying platinum. There's no plat item that will increase your RNG odds. Plus, people quitting or getting fed up with RNG is going to hurt the Plat purchases a lot more than a token system ever would.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very informative, thanks for the explanation :)

I'm seriously sick of Warframe's RNG system so I'd be all in for a token system. Though I do not agree about the part where you buy prime access. People should not be able to buy their way to enjoy the items while the non-buyers have to wait. How about each item having their own type of token parts? Then you should be given the option to pick whick item token you're after. That way people can't just stockpile.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very informative, thanks for the explanation :)

I'm seriously sick of Warframe's RNG system so I'd be all in for a token system. Though I do not agree about the part where you buy prime access. People should not be able to buy their way to enjoy the items while the non-buyers have to wait. How about each item having their own type of token parts? Then you should be given the option to pick whick item token you're after. That way people can't just stockpile.

I had considered having lots of different tokens for the different items. But, I think it just overcomplicates things.

 

However, in regards to Prime Access, it's not different from what we have now (I personally hate it, but it's here to stay)

Currently, it's either buy Prime Access, or try your hand at RNG.

With the token system, it's Buy Prime Access, try your hand at RNG or wait until it's released on the token market.

 

So, it's still exactly the same as what we currently have, but you just won't be able to buy it instantly without using Prime Access.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had considered having lots of different tokens for the different items. But, I think it just overcomplicates things.

 

However, in regards to Prime Access, it's not different from what we have now (I personally hate it, but it's here to stay)

Currently, it's either buy Prime Access, or try your hand at RNG.

With the token system, it's Buy Prime Access, try your hand at RNG or wait until it's released on the token market.

 

So, it's still exactly the same as what we currently have, but you just won't be able to buy it instantly without using Prime Access.

It just doesn't sit well with me that you can buy your way through the game to enjoy items before others can. I guess at least since everyone will be able to get their hands on the items its kind of fair. Unlike the prime access with the exclusives that no one else can get >> << (looking at the misa syandana)
Link to post
Share on other sites

It just doesn't sit well with me that you can buy your way through the game to enjoy items before others can. I guess at least since everyone will be able to get their hands on the items its kind of fair. Unlike the prime access with the exclusives that no one else can get >> << (looking at the misa syandana)

Don't get me wrong, I loathe Prime Access. I think it's awful, and should never have been added.

But, as much as I hate it, it's here to stay.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The token system is what killed guild wars 2 for me (that and their stupid strong dungeon mobs, forcing everyone to be max level to do a level 20 dungeon) there is simply nothing worse than struggling your way through a dungeon only to defeat every boss, get nothing of value from them and then leave to find out you have to do it 20 more times. Then again, I guess for a fast paced game like warframe that wouldn't be as bad (Dungeons in guild wars 2 last near an hour minimum)

Edited by Chaz_Darkbane
Link to post
Share on other sites

And Warframe is FTP game, you don't need to pay and you can get almost all stuff in game.

So if they release a token system, that would make players less tend to spend plats in game.

I can't pay for a Burston Prime or a Boar Prime. There are only 3 void items you can buy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The token system is what killed guild wars 2 for me (that and their stupid strong dungeon mobs, forcing everyone to be max level to do a level 20 dungeon) there is simply nothing worse than struggling your way through a dungeon only to defeat every boss, get nothing of value from them and then leave to find out you have to do it 20 more times. Then again, I guess for a fast paced game like warframe that wouldn't be as bad (Dungeons in guild wars 2 last near an hour minimum)

Yeah, I only ever did 1 dungeon in GW2 (apart from some lava event dungeon), that was the very first one.

 

I get where you're coming from, though.

However, the token system I detailed still includes what we currently have, which is RNG that drops items.

The tokens are there for those times when RNG just completely hates you.

 

So, you get a mix of RNG and tokens, which I think is the right way to go about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The token system is what killed guild wars 2 for me (that and their stupid strong dungeon mobs, forcing everyone to be max level to do a level 20 dungeon) there is simply nothing worse than struggling your way through a dungeon only to defeat every boss, get nothing of value from them and then leave to find out you have to do it 20 more times. Then again, I guess for a fast paced game like warframe that wouldn't be as bad (Dungeons in guild wars 2 last near an hour minimum)

You're vastly underplaying the flaw with GW2's dungeon system.

You'd run it 20 more times just to get gear that literally affords you no more advantage other than a different look.

In other words, unless you were OCD about collecting styles there was literally no point to suffering through the dungeons.

Edited by Bakim0n0
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm your proposal sounds very interesting. The reason DE keeps RNG is to help accommodate some of the casual players, but it isn't always reliable as many pointed out.

 

Perhaps sometime in the future it might be implemented and maybe we can have Darvo as the exchange guy too.

Edited by Rafarix
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm your proposal sounds very interesting. The reason DE keeps RNG is to help accommodate some of the casual players, but it isn't always reliable as many pointed out.

 

Perhaps they can have both? At the end of the mission you get your standard RNG loot, but if you don't want it you can instead forfeit it and take the token reward instead. That way if say I am farming T3 and keep finding junk but suddenly I find say one of the rare drop I can take that and then used the accrued tokens on perhaps another item I have been trying to get.

My whole proposition is to keep the current RNG system, but add a token system on top of it.

 

So, you still have the chance at getting your Receivers or your Systems, but if you spend days and days farming for it and never get it, then you can go to the token shop and buy the part you're mission.

 

Giving up the loot for tokens does sound interesting though. However, I feel as if that would make it far too easy to farm tokens on Survival. Unless you are limited to exchanging 1 item per mission

Link to post
Share on other sites

When the Void keys are as big a pain in the &amp;#&#33; to grind up as they are to spend one and not getting anything of worth from the run, any amount of tokens one could add to them nullifies the point unless it would take less than 5 - 7 runs to get full completion on an item and get it in the oven to cook. Were keys removed and Void dungeons free access, it might be one thing. Right now it's just an extra form of currency stacked on top of a RNG based novelty that lost its luster after the first two weeks. I'd sooner have the ability to use regular in game credits to buy void blueprint parts than to go scumming for tokens 20 or 30 times for a single piece of the puzzle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...