An Open Letter To De From Your Veterans (The megathread)

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Need some context on this.

You cant just randomly grab words and apply them to any possible scenario.

There is nothing that needs to be added, because those are their exact words. They said they want to reduce grind, and have less reliance on RNG, what possibly could be required besides that? Nothing. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it, so I'm done (again) because there is nothing you can really come back with.

[War_Admiral_Adama]

As you can probably tell there is a planned chain of these from concerned Vets. We have all gotten together and discussed issues and plan to put a new one out Daily. --collstro--'s was an overview of all our thoughts, so these wouldn't appear too similar. Clearly from feedback his received there are alot of concerned players.

 

Original Open Letter: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/161764-an-open-letter-to-de-from-your-veterans/

 

So as planned, this is my own personal dilemma I'm having with updates and Warframe as whole.

 

 

Mastery Rank

 

This is probably my biggest concern. I am max level in Warframe at the moment. However, we did some research and found Mastery 15 is only 25% of the way to Mastery 30 (Max level as described through achievements system). This is absolutely obscene. There are already a hundred or more weapon in Warframe, that alone took me hours on hours to complete leveling. On top of Forma of the best gear at times they prevailed.

 

Now, based on the reskinned updates that are being pushed out (3 new weapons, 1 Warframe, new boss, and new tiles, then 2 or 3 Tenno reinforcements through the updates) it will take DE approximately 3 to 4 years based on their business/model plan to push enough Mastery rank effected gear to reach Mastery 30. This is ridiculous.

 

On top of this, based on the sheer priorities DE seems to state, I can't imagine this game will last 4 years without exceptional PvP or exceptional End-game PvE. I would like to see both of these myself (especially PvP). However, unless Mastery XP is gained in a new way. We will be forced to level about 500 weapons, and 100 Warframes before we reach Mastery 30.

 

This needs to be looked at, changed, and communicated. Cause from my perspective, I can't say i'm down for this long of a prolonged grind.

 

P.S. The Mastery Levels of arsenal gear is still not set up to a way it would represent progression. Everything is either Level 0 (Pretty much everything) or Mastery 7-9 (Clan Tech, which isn't even that great.)

 

 

End-Game

 

This is my biggest worry. They don't seem to care about the Veteran base. They should have known Endless Survival/Defense for End-game was a horrible idea. That's not challenging, its a endurance test. It's not hard to get 4 hours in Survival or wave 200 in Defense, it's merely time consuming. That is a pathetic End-game model.

 

My suggestion to fix this is to release a Raid mode into Warframe. Get a group together jump into a "Dungeon" type setting, fight super high level mobs (level 200 base) and work your way into Raid specific bosses that take lots of planning and mechanic understanding to defeat for High reward that tell the Vets apart from the New players. There is no real distinction right now.

 

A new player can be carried across the Solar system, be traded the best mods granted they have the Credits. From our research we found one can complete the Star chart with the Braton and mods acquired. (Yes, this was tested)

 

Bottom line is, THIS GAME IS TOO EASY. Its a borefest for us vets right now. I understand DE did somewhat mention End-game will be looked into during Livestream 20, but I didn't hear any real assurance. Which really bothers me. It's there usually cop-out with player concerns.

 

Again, If a exceptionally good End-game model isn't implemented a large Exodus of Vets will take shortly, this isn't good for Warframe at all. They will lose alot of Money, and the game will lose its competitive value for most.

 

 

Lore

 

Yes, this was a big part of Collstro's thread, but I can't stress enough how important Lore is in a game like Warframe. Right now there is absolutely no direction, but to kill things, and level up mods and weapons. There is no aspiration in the game or even understanding of origination of everything. This is very very dangerous ground to tread on for so long.

 

 

I would mention a area on PvP as it's my area of interest in Warframe, however, I realize alot of players don't like it. So I won't preach about ideas.

 

 

 

Something More

 

Warframe desperately needs something more than the Grind it is. There are thousands of good suggestions I see from players daily, but are never even considered. One thing that bothers me immensely is the Fact DE claims Warframe is still in Beta (which is believable to say the least), but they hardly consider our feedback even though we are Beta players. 

 

I think it's wrong to only take feedback on problems with the game, when there are so many good suggestions from players, that would make Warframe much better. 

 

This is all i have to say right now, thanks for Reading. I hope this can be relate-able by some of the other Vets.

 

-Lynches

 

 

 

[immolator1001]

My big problem is the lack of high mastery weapons and cosmetics, the weapons don't need to be OP just cool and unique. Also I have liked the new weapons they have added (ie penta, stug, drakgoon).

[bejuizb]

I agree with what you're saying Lynches. In the current state of the game, it is honestly quite hard for me to want to play it. Even if I do decided to go on, I end up doing the same thing again and again, which further reduces the pleasure the game used to give me.

 

Lore might be a significant boost to my appreciation of the game, and I'm sure ensuring that endgame content would be a great challenge for all of us.

[DaftMeat]

I wouldn't worry about Mastery until wee have direct reason to do so. You can already use all clan weapons, have max extractors and trades per day.

Who knows? Eventually, end-game may include missions that give additional Mastery points at completion.

[ChinaTercel]

Still in Open Beta

[--collstro--]

I agree with and completely support everything stated in this letter. I was hopeful that our letter(s) would warrant being addressed in Live Stream, but even the quickest and easiest to implement changes weren't, as I go into in greater detail here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/161764-an-open-letter-to-de-from-your-veterans/?p=1899510

 

DE it's time you start listening to your veterans and addressing our concerns. It's not only in our interest that you do so, but your own as well, since I can't imagine any business wants to lose long time customers.

 

 

Sincerely,

collstro   (Co-Founder of clans 'Spectres N7' and 'X Spectres)

Edited January 11, 2014 by --collstro--

[bejuizb]

Still in Open Beta

Pretty nice excuse, considering that the whole market system is fully functioning.

 

I'm not trying to start a war here, but it is safe to say that the Open beta title is just that, a title. And a title doesn't warrant flaws.

[Theodorick]

Just to clarify something.

 

When you say from "your veterans" and speak to the first person throughout your post. Do you really believe we all share your views on the same topics here?

 

Because I'd like to know if this is your view alone, then please, change your title to "A letter from one of your concerned veteran". Could it be the view of a small group of people talking together? Or you actually have the general consensus of the majority of the veterans playing here?

 

In no way does this mean I disapprove with everything you said, I just find it pretty bold of you to include all of us in your title to add some kind of fake weight to your thread.

 

Thank you.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Theodorick

[Egg_Chen]

Wow, I'm Mastery 14 and clocking 1,400hrs+ (that includes a reset though).

So, guestimate 4,000 hours to reach 30 for me (which would appear to be how many ranks are "planned").

 

400 weapons, that's a lot of melee skins!

 

Anyway, interesting read like --colstro--'s thread.

 

Edit: 666th post, must find another thread to comment on, quick!

Edited January 11, 2014 by Egg_Chen

[War_Admiral_Adama]

Just to clarify something.

 

When you say from "your veterans" and speak to the first person throughout your post. Do you really believe we all share your views on the same topics here?

 

Because I'd like to know if this is your view alone, then please, change your title to "A letter from one of your concerned veteran". Could it be the view of a small group of people talking together? Or you actually have the general consensus of the majority of the veterans playing here?

 

In no way does this mean I disapprove with everything you said, I just find it pretty bold of you to include all of us in your title to add some kind of fake weight to your thread.

 

Thank you.

We are all together with these. It was planned by over 300 Vets.

[Kraizer]

Several topics regarding this have been popping up lately and, once again, I have to agree with it.

 

DE needs to start addressing these issues, specially RNG/endgame.

[OptimumBow0]

I'm pretty sure DE's method is to throw out something to satisfy the people, then work out all the kinks later. 

 

It's how our legislative system works too.

 

Also, it seems like they're focusing on the core mechanics of the game (Dmg 2.0, Melee 2.0) before doing anything else. What good is fixing things like End-Game and PvP if the foundation of all gameplay is screwed? I would hold off all complaints until they are, without a doubt, doing nothing about the problems in Warframe. 

[Mak_Gohae]

You don't need anything added to that. 

You want something because now you have no argument. 

 

 

They reduced the grind and RNG in getting Warframe.

DE delivered.

 

 

do you see what i did there without context?

 

 

 

There is nothing that needs to be added, because those are their exact words. They said they want to reduce grind, and have less reliance on RNG, what possibly could be required besides that? Nothing. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it, so I'm done (again) because there is nothing you can really come back with.

 

OMG.....

 

They reduced Warframe grinding and RNG, DE delivered.

PRAISE THEM!!!!

[xveganrox]

I'd love to see a raid mode like the one you described. Lephantis would be a great example of a raid style boss, if he didn't die from 2 seconds of concentrated fire. Perhaps raids could be tiered by levels (level 50, 75, 100, etc) and completion of each tier for the first time could grant a decent amount of mastery. Gating them with a minimum mastery rank could help prevent power leveling through raids.

[Relish]

1. Mastery rank doesn't matter after 11, going to 30 is a redundancy, in case they need it, its a non issue to get mastery to 30.

 

2. End game, 1 this is a beta, meant to make the game playable and bug free, also the learning curve, rng limiter and early game are much bigger than having an endgame, what's the use of end game if you don't have players? What do you want end game to be, give them ideas on how to make end game fun and exciting, don't complain and then say "you fix it", it makes you look petty.

 

3. Lore is also not a big issue yet, i would much rather them focus on content than start crafting a huge, and time intensive story.

 

4. Pvp, not an issue, the game is balanced around pve and will remain balanced around pve until it becomes apparent that the vast majority of players want pvp expanded on.

 

I have to agree on the something more though, players need a reason to continue playing the game .

[autrix02]

They reduced the grind and RNG in getting Warframe.

DE delivered.

 

 

do you see what i did there without context?

 

 

 

 

OMG.....

 

They reduced Warframe grinding and RNG, DE delivered.

PRAISE THEM!!!!

Go watch the live stream if you truly don't understand. Which I highly doubt. It looks very much like you're trying to argue for no reason, but to satisfy something internally.  

[Bazools]

I'm no Vet but i totally agree with what is stated, besides th PvP thing cause i play Warframe for the PvE.

 

In Livestream 20 there were given no reasurances of what the future is for Warframe's endgame and even the answers relating to lore seemed vague.

 

There is a percentage of the player base that defends DE doesn't know where the Devs want to carry the game and for some part the elusive nature and vagueness of some the answers given one can only keep wondering that same thing.

 

All the mistery in which the Devs blanket some areas of development is either a way of keeping the player base excited or a way to disguise the fact that indeed they still don't know what they are in fact doing? 

I believe this is a question that only with time will be answered.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Bazools

[Wallace24]

people don't seem to understand that the highest levels of mastery (30) are not meant to be achievable yet. its there as a high upper limit to allow for DE to expand the arsenal and starchart as they need to. and a 3-4 year lifespan would be fine. again, we're not meant to hit level 30 in the next year. 3 years from now is reasonable

 

we all know the end-game content at present is bad, artificially increasing the difficulty by just making high-level mobs into bullet sponges. as you said, this just makes things like 2 hours of survival tedious, but not really a challenge. I'm always intrigued when people bring up new ways to improve end-game content, make the enemies harder because of their mechanics rather than their massive health pool. but does this really solve the issue? at a certain level, all high-end content is simply just more time consuming than normal content. if a certain enemy requires a specific tactic to defeat, then we will just use that tactic, that's the only difference. unless there could be an adaptive system, where enemies have variable armor and you have to find their weak points, or enemy movements change and they have a 'tell' of sorts that gives away which of several techniques you should use to take them down, I really don't see how it would be much different. the tactic now is just to shoot them with high-damage weapons. but if certain enemies were immune to certain damage types, rather than just resistances, then I could see how you'd have to actually plan out what weapon and mods to bring

 

if there is a good model to go off, one that wouldn't be ruined simply by shooting the more advanced enemies with a more powerful gun, then I'd definitely want to hear about it. I'm not saying that I've been through a lot of MMO's and I don't think such a thing exists, I just don't know how other games deal with this issue, so some examples would be good

 

back to the mastery issues, there definitely is an imbalance in terms of mastery-locked weapons. guess its nice in that players who don't want to collect everything and level it up to 30 don't have to in order to unlock most things. but yeah, the first couple levels of mastery don't get you anything, and anything past 10 is useless at present. I think mastery should unlock skins and such, not necessarily better weapons. because if the full 30 mastery ranks are even utilized, one day, and there's an amazing weapon that you need to be level 25 or something to unlock, then everyone less than that (everyone with less than 1500 hours or so, at that point) will be at a huge disadvantage if you're grouped up with someone with the gun. that being said, kill counts don't really matter as its a co-operative game, but still, people would feel like they need to reach 25 just to get that gun. and players who are past 25 would complain that the gun isn't powerful enough to justify 25 levels of mastery to unlock. skins would be a cool way to show how much time you've put into the game, assuming you spent your time acquiring mastery

[(PSN)octus]

im just a ps4 player(i have been there since the beginning of the console release), but i totally agree with everything the OP said. i really am looking forward to a story and hopefully the feeling that this game is tied a little bit more together, it feels a little messy at this point.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

OMG.....

 

They reduced Warframe grinding and RNG, DE delivered.

PRAISE THEM!!!!

Are we living in the same world? Because they most certainly did not.

 

They reduced the time it takes to get frames, but they've upped it everywhere else. Don't give me your BS, you know you're lying, so stop being dishonest.

 

If you want "context" (which you shouldn't need, but you are mak, so whatever), go watch livestream 5 -10 (can't remember which it was)

Edited January 11, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Theodorick]

We are all together with these. It was planned by over 300 Vets.

Ok, I guess 300 constitute a good enough sample now.

 

 

 

I for one strongly disagree with this :

Again, If a exceptionally good End-game model isn't implemented a large Exodus of Vets will take shortly, this isn't good for Warframe at all. They will lose alot of Money, and the game will lose its competitive value for most.

 

People been saying this since Update 7. I guess if they always include everyone in their topic it can easily be blown out of proportion. However, veterans leave games all the time. It's new blood that keeps a game alive on the long term. Obviously a good dedicated community of veterans will make a strong core, but veterans leave regardless of a game being good or not.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Theodorick

[Bazools]

Still in Open Beta

 

You being sarcastic right!? :D good one.

[Mak_Gohae]

 

Mastery Rank

 

 

Most of the mastery ranks dont give you anything... so before we flip out about how long it takes to get somewhere how about to throw out ideas for the ranks that are not being used now?

 

End-Game

 

Every attempt at difficult game play gets slammed down by the general audience and DE bends.

This battle is lost.

 

As for a raid dungeon thing, that's just going to take time. They are just now getting to making bosses into their own unique encounters. This stuff takes time, the game is just around a year an a half old, stuff is just being built. Like Scott said in the stream, from what this game was a year ago they have come very far and they have. A year ago there was only one tile set, one.

 

Lore

 

There's a story there but there arent a bunch of cut scenes so you need to actually pay attention to the things going around. I know this may be difficult to do but if you look for it the core is there.

 

Something More

 

Your view of the game is not their view of the game.

We need to work with them to build a better game, we are not going to tell them what they should do.

We will win some and we will loose some so dont expect every single thing that gets put out there to turn into something.

[Figasebe]

It seems that you guys, didn't watched last livestream... DE dont give a cr*p about everything that community asks...

 

All they do, is creating goats =/