Stoi84

Warframe Builder

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Another option would be to simply implement a voting counter.

1) Create a button when viewing a build that allows a user to like the build.
2) When the like button is pressed, have the server check the name of the logged in user against a database of users who have liked that item.
3) If no match is found, then insert that username to the SQL database and increment the popularity counter variable for that item.
4) If a match was found, then that user has already liked the item and cannot like it again.  Thus take no action.

Again, this logic could be similar to most social media constructs.
If you have any questions on how to do this please feel free to ask me as I am an Android Developer and have worked on plenty of social media apps.

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Thanks for the effort you've put into the site, its just a shame that regulations/legislation is requiring the extra work.

I would suggest that under the list of methods you have on the site, for recommended methods of saving the new credentials, you at least add "password manager" to the list.  Perhaps even throw in a couple of links to the more popular ones?  I've always been partial to the open-source KeePass, but there are many others I wouldn't hesitate to recommend.

I also wanted to ask if, instead of deleting the public builds of non-converted accounts, you could keep them in some sort archived state (without description and attributed to "anonymous", since the info about the person who created it would be gone), that would allow people to continue to search/reference them.  Perhaps have these "archived" builds show up at the bottom of the list of non-archived builds?

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Posted (edited)

Two really small issues which I can understand why they haven't been caught, Polar Magazine icon still says + Freeze damage rather than + Cold, and Venomous Clip has a max drain of 11 when in game its 9, the same as the other three 90% ele. mods.

 

Also, thanks for this site, its super useful, and fun to try and plan out builds for optimisation 

Edited by (PS4)never3nder_87

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no more top voted builds?

I went to search builds and usually I can sort by votes or the best builds, but it looks like they are only sorted by newest first now. The column for votes is gone.

Am I missing something?

 

Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Popularity is gone. It was based on IP addresses and I removed all IP addresses from the database in my attempt to remove all personal data from the said database. I'll see if I can think of a good system to promote the best builds in the future.

Il y a 15 heures, idSmoker a dit :

I also wanted to ask if, instead of deleting the public builds of non-converted accounts, you could keep them in some sort archived state (without description and attributed to "anonymous", since the info about the person who created it would be gone), that would allow people to continue to search/reference them.  Perhaps have these "archived" builds show up at the bottom of the list of non-archived builds?

1

I'll think about this. I wanted to take the opportunity to delete the old builds, but it's true that some of them still deserve to be there, and removing all is a bit too much.

Edited by Stoi84

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3 minutes ago, Stoi84 said:

Popularity is gone. It was based on IP addresses and I removed all IP addresses from the database in my attempt to remove all personal data from the said database. I'll see if I can think of a good system to promote de best builds in the future.

that's a bummer. best of luck.

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22 hours ago, (PS4)never3nder_87 said:

Two really small issues which I can understand why they haven't been caught, Polar Magazine icon still says + Freeze damage rather than + Cold, and Venomous Clip has a max drain of 11 when in game its 9, the same as the other three 90% ele. mods.

 

Also, thanks for this site, its super useful, and fun to try and plan out builds for optimisation 

Venomous Clip is currently an 11-drain D mod, so that is correct. 

Since Archwing has pretty much been tossed under the bus and none of the content is challenging with minimal investment I wouldn’t hold my breath for the mods to be changed to suit normal weapon mods.

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I understand there's an issue with the current laws and privacy. While I do get that, I also can say as a "newish" person who's still learning the game and learning how to make builds that the popularity being gone is a massive resource that's been lost. I went to your site to research which builds worked for people and which ones did not. Trying to cycle through all those builds on there and them having titles like "The Best Possible" and them turning out to be ridiculously bad builds is going to lead to lots of new players feeling overwhelmed by the misinformed builds. Please, for the new people, please find a way to bring back ratings.

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On 2018-04-27 at 11:17 PM, Stoi84 said:

I'd like to bring on the table a subject that'll probably not please a lot of you, but it's now a good time to speak about this.

First of all, no, it's not the end of Warframe-Builder. The tone may seem a bit grave, but that's not something as bad as this. Be reassured. This is, however, something that'll maybe affect Warframe-Builder and some of its current functionalities.

I'll make it short. On May 25, this year, a new regulation in EU law, called GDPR, will become enforceable. In a few words, and from what I understood, because this thing is too stressful for me to read furthermore, this is a new law in EU about data protection and privacy. For website owners, no matter where the site is located, starting on May 25, you'll have to comply with a lot of things when it comes to EU visitors. While Warframe-Builder does not collect a lot of your personal data (only your email address for your account and your IP address for security purposes and popularity), it seems like as soon as personal data are collected, no matter what it is, there's a bunch of things to do. Some of those things are not so boring (getting user consent, allowing them to edit/remove their data), but some others are (getting sued if the law is not correctly respected, inform the users in less than 72 hours in case of a security breach, data portability). I invite you, if you are interested, to search about this over the Internet.

I used the word stressful, a few lines above, for a good reason. I don't really like to speak about myself, but stress has always been an important part of my life, a part that I cannot get rid of and that, from time to time, is making my life a pain. And I'm not ready for more stress, absolutely not. And this new law is already stressing me. I'm not certain of what I should do, of how much I am concerned by this, of what I risk if I don't take the appropriate measures in time before and after, in case something happens. I'm totally annoyed by this.

So, considering all of this, I may decide to stop collecting personal information at all, so that I don't have to worry about this new law. The problem is that a member area without emails is a bit complicated to manage, not to say impossible. That's the sad news. If I had to arrive to this point, namely, remove the member area, major other aspects of Warframe-Builder would be affected too. This would mark the end of the save/search functions. Warframe-Builder would become something where you still can create build and share them via links, but no longer a place to store all your builds and search for others.

No need to mention that I don't want something like this to happen. But things are what they are. This thing is stressing me way too much in a period where I need to concentrate my efforts (on my other project). So, and unless I understand this more before the May 25, I'll probably take that decision. In the meantime, I'm open to listening to anyone with a better understanding of this than me that could give me an explanation that would make another choice the better choice. But it seems like managing personal data will now become a full-time job, and it's not possible for me to handle something like this.

I hope I'm wrong about what I understood, really, and I really hope someone will come with a better explanation of this so that I can consider another solution. Warframe-Builder is 4 years of my life and I don't want to do that many steps backward. But health first, and if no other solution is possible, then I'll do what I explained. Warframe-Builder would not have been what it is without all of you, that's why I'm being totally transparent on this point with you. This is not the end of Warframe-Builder, but this could be a major change. And again, even if I have to take that decision, that's not the end of Warframe-Builder.

In the hope of being contradicted.

 

if you use OAuth and OpenID you can have the necessary authentication without storing user data and it will be within the law.

https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/facebook-twitter-google-or-linkedin-which-should-you-log-in-with/

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Le 04/05/2018 à 16:19, Stoi84 a dit :

I don't know yet. The first system was a "vote up/vote down" system and it was totally abused (multiple accounts), this is why the popularity arrived, but that was not really better. It was not abused but the value was not very accurate. If I find a good solution, I'll for sure add something to sort the builds based on their "quality", but apart from manually promoting some builds to the top of the list, I don't have any idea yet.

Edit : The problem with the popularity, and I can tell this now that this is gone, is that it was based on a number of things all related to visits. The more visits a build had, the longer these visits, and the most different referers it had, the better the popularity was. But a build at the top of the list will always have more visits than any other, no matter how good he is. For this reason, and also because there's a lot of builds, it was difficult for a good build lost in the middle of the others to climb to the top of the list. That's why, when there was moderators, there was a system to allow a moderator to promote a build to the top of the list, no matter its popularity, to help him get more popularity. But this was a lot of work, managing moderators is also a good amount of work, and while this system still exists, it's no longer used.

 

I wish myself while you rework, that the Description is shown above or so, cuz for me as noob it was hard to see there is a "Guide" linked to the Build bascially.

In case for Upvoting: Try to let a lot of Factors matter, like:

 

"Upload a Video to the Build" (you could emblemed)
"How much text he wrote aka Guide"
"How much people found the Guide helpful"
"Has linked Builds" 

etc. bascially even if a Build is good, it dosnt matter if there is no Guide to it. I feel important, that there is a Guide attached to the Build.


Like Equinox, he is mostly usless if not paired with other good warframes, so if a Guide state like "Equinox Build for Group with XYZ" then you at least know, it isnt that good for other stuff :)

 

Got what I mean?

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Posted (edited)

Popularity was based on IP addresses, and IP addresses are gone. It was based on the visitors IP addresses, not the creator one. Each day, and to get popularity, a build was able to have a set number of visits from different IP addresses, a set number of visits that lasted for more than 30 seconds, still based on IP addresses, and a set number of visits from direct links (so not from searching on Warframe-Builder, coming from other websites). All these things were used to calculate a value reflecting how popular a build was. How popular. Popularity has never been a good way to measure a build quality. I'm not saying that all popular builds were bad. Actually, I have no idea about this. But the way the popularity worked, it was not a reliable number to express the quality of a build. Older builds for each item always had an advantage cause they were visited way more and for a longer time, no matter how good or bad they were.

Popularity was put in place because the "vote up/vote down" system was abused. Less than a day after this system was in place, people were already creating multiple accounts to upvote their builds and downvote the others. I had all the tools to verify this, this is not just a story. This is why I created the popularity, a passive system, and I never explained how it worked to try to prevent this kind of abuse, but I'm pretty certain that was not enough. And I knew as soon as I had this idea that popularity was not a good system, but that was still better than a system totally abused.

I'll try to think about another system, that's planned, and I'll read all ideas you guys can have about this. Warframe-Builder has always been about leading the new players to the best builds, so something will replace popularity. It'll probably take some time, I don't know how long, but the fact that this is gone for a moment should not be a big deal, because as I explained, popularity was not always a reliable number.

Edited by Stoi84

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19 hours ago, Stoi84 said:

Popularity was based on IP addresses, and IP addresses are gone. It was based on the visitors IP addresses, not the creator one. Each day, and to get popularity, a build was able to have a set number of visits from different IP addresses, a set number of visits that lasted for more than 30 seconds, still based on IP addresses, and a set number of visits from direct links (so not from searching on Warframe-Builder, coming from other websites). All these things were used to calculate a value reflecting how popular a build was. How popular. Popularity has never been a good way to measure a build quality. I'm not saying that all popular builds were bad. Actually, I have no idea about this. But the way the popularity worked, it was not a reliable number to express the quality of a build. Older builds for each item always had an advantage cause they were visited way more and for a longer time, no matter how good or bad they were.

Popularity was put in place because the "vote up/vote down" system was abused. Less than a day after this system was in place, people were already creating multiple accounts to upvote their builds and downvote the others. I had all the tools to verify this, this is not just a story. This is why I created the popularity, a passive system, and I never explained how it worked to try to prevent this kind of abuse, but I'm pretty certain that was not enough. And I knew as soon as I had this idea that popularity was not a good system, but that was still better than a system totally abused.

I'll try to think about another system, that's planned, and I'll read all ideas you guys can have about this. Warframe-Builder has always been about leading the new players to the best builds, so something will replace popularity. It'll probably take some time, I don't know how long, but the fact that this is gone for a moment should not be a big deal, because as I explained, popularity was not always a reliable number.

While i understand you concern about the current situation, i feel really bad about removing popularity, i put an effort creating detailed builds for several warframes (Mesa, Limbo, Octavia, Ivara, Ash, Inaros, Titania, Nekros) and i was happy when i saw them at the top, i don't know if the system was really accurate, but i can tell that even when there were old builds at the top (specially for Nekros and Mesa), in few days, almost all of my builds took 1st place over builds with 1-2 years old, not because i cheated, i know that people liked them, i had several people asking me in game about them, and giving me feed back, and that was amazing. Today i went to check build for frost, and now i see a lot of build just sorted for the date that they were submitted, and most of them are bad or lack of explanation, i can tell for sure that i can make a new one and solve my problem, but what about new players?, i would feel bad for them for spending time and resources in a bad build, something that almost happened to me at the beginning when i started playing. 

Personally, i think that upvote / downvote + comments could work if you can use a system like warframe.market, where your user is liked to your steam account, but i hope that something will be done soon, without some reference, the build list is just a big trap for new players and discourage others to contribute.

 

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The first ideas I have are about a 'vote up' system only with the votes being deleted (each individual vote) after a certain amount of time (like 1 month) so that outdated builds will lose their rating over the time and new up to date builds have a chance to climb the rankings. By the way, popularity was working that way too. Each day, popularity was reduced for all builds. I'll maybe think about adding a weight on the votes to prevent abuse, but this is a bit more complicated. The problem with a system like this is that this is an active system and thus it requires an action from the members. I'll keep thinking about this, but I hope I can come with a good solution soon enough.

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Posted (edited)
On 2018-05-04 at 5:52 AM, NattyMan0007 said:

Take the MD5 hash of the password plus a random salt when the account is generated, store it, and compare to that on login. MD5 hashes are one way and adding a salt into it randomly secures it somewhat against brute-forcing.

Source: Web/Software developer with adequate industry experience.

MD5 in 2018... Are you serious ? Even with a salt it's weak as hell.

I hope you do know that in some countries you can be sued for improper storage of passwords. "Improper" including storing passwords in plaintext or hashing passwords with a weak algorithm.

Sorry but your "adequate industry experience" seems a bit outdated.

Have you heard about our lord and savior bcrypt ?

 

Edit : By the way Stoi84, Warframe Builder doesn't have a TLS certificate, why ?

Edited by TheophanyFR

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A certificate is no longer needed since all personal data will be removed as of May, 25, and I don't think someone will try to hack a Warframe-Builder account just for the sake of deleting saved builds, especially by intercepting data.

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Fair enough. But a certificate would have been usefull from 2013 to May, 25. Not to protect saved builds, I agree with you on that, but to protect against reused password sniffing. Because, just as you said, a password is personal data.

Anyway, to end on a high note, your website is a great tool. Thank you for your work !

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Sorting by calculated DPS and being able to include/exclude certain mods (cheese builds that try to reach highest DPS by maxing out fire rate for example, or including an augment mod if you want builds based on that) would be perfect.

I think histograms of what firerates, punch-throughs, crits and statuses builds achieve would be interesting too. Weapons might have, for example, two peaks for firerates corresponding to a low-firerate meta and a high-firerate meta for a given weapon (e.g. Supra Vandal). You could even have histograms where the y-axis is DPS instead of number of users...

I know what I've just described is a metric S#&$-ton of programming work and database/CPU strain though, so consider it a dream rather than a request.

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Posted (edited)
Quote
18 hours ago, Stoi84 said:

The first ideas I have are about a 'vote up' system only with the votes being deleted (each individual vote) after a certain amount of time (like 1 month) so that outdated builds will lose their rating over the time and new up to date builds have a chance to climb the rankings.

 

Not sure if you know of the site, but a site like "Diablofans" has a rating system where you can filter builds by name, author, type (corrosive, electric, etc. in this case), solo/group/hybrid, has or doesn't have a spell/item (riven or mod in this case), and the patch it was posted in. Along with those it also has "filter by: Hot, New, Top-week/month/all time".

Have you considered putting those options similar to those into the filters?

http://diablofans.com
 

Edited by Aipetikos

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I don't know if this is possible, but you could get in contact with the Warframe Market creator to colaborate  and use their same system of account identity verification, by doing this, I think the abuse of up and down votes would be reduced.
I don't think that there is a better way to give credits to good build without using some automated system. 
Maybe you could once a week, create a "build of the week" spot for the most used weapons and warframes, so that diferent builds would get some credibility once in a week. 

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Posted (edited)
On 2018-05-04 at 7:19 AM, Stoi84 said:

I don't have any idea yet.

Why not simply take an agnostic view of the data and make it so we can filter and sort by any of the various attributes?  For example, I want to set up Rhino Prime with max ability strength, and I want some help.  Why not let me simply sort the builds by the ones with most ability strength at the top?  Another example, I want my Soma to be built for crits, so let me sort by Crit Chance, or by Crit Multiplier, or even to sort by them both, so I can see highest crit chance and highest crit multiplier, if I wanted to see suggestions on that "sweet spot".  You could set it up so there's a drop-down to select the attributes you want to sort/ filter by, and then a field to set the sort order options.

 

As a relatively new user, I've always found the process of finding good information in the builds lists to be overly subjective when we're truly, simply, talking numbers, and all those numbers are already stored in the data set.  Take away all that "I like it" or "This is junk", and just let the numbers speak for themselves.

Edited by karma827

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On 2018-05-06 at 5:25 AM, TheBlackShawarma said:

Without ratings this is useless scrapyard of tonns builds from nonames. Gratz...

 

  • Like 1

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The way Warframe-Builder is coded (understand badly) makes it difficult to show a lot of values in the build list. The code is 4 years old and outdated and it's too much work to redo it for now.

The problem is that 99% of the things are calculated after that the build is loaded, and some values are based on values that are displayed on the screen, values that were probably modified by something else before they were displayed. That's design mistakes I made 4 years ago, using DOM values instead of stocking everything in variables, in order to deliver as fast as possible what the users were waiting for. So to calculate the values before they are displayed, it would require a completely new code.

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Posted (edited)
On 2018-05-05 at 6:36 AM, raven2k01 said:

It's a real shame that you are removing popularity.  Most of my builds are best in slot builds.  Others won't know they exist now and that hurts them.  Why not just create a way when the accounts are converted that the new popularity is associated with that person's new username?  You could do this based on the secret code which would still allow anonymity.

Glancing over yours show that they're indeed not "best in slot" builds, rather than ones completely founded on paper dps, like critbuilds with vile accel (using vile accel ever in any build other than trying to jack up the burst dps number on the calc...) and hcal (Using hcal on crit builds that massively incentivize headshots, especially in the age of huntermunitions & vig armaments.

 

Then you have stuff like Trinity builds using Redirection+Vital and Primed flow on a EV build but not just dropping both mods for QT for more eHP & more modspace.

I mean most of them massively skip over stuff that is pretty much widely agreed on by the community and is why the popularity system is a failure, there needs to be a better way to vet these kind of builds by people who actually sit there and crunch them ingame, not just build it entirely around the burst DPS value on the calculator which has been proven time and time again to be massively ineffective and woefully inadequate springing forward tons of problems like ammo economy or just straight silly event mod builds/people slotting mods that actively hurt the players build in the persuit of a number that thinks hunter munitions is less DPS than Mag Size.

 

For example -

 

Your Lenz build (You'll have to pause the build to verify it, also no primed cryo rounds because it's completely overkill on a bow that can already oneshot/twoshot level 500 enemies) - https://youtu.be/TJ83k1hSdI4

 

My Lenz build (This is also a rough draft and thoroughly unoptimized) - https://youtu.be/KrOcEl24XBo

 

The deconstructor prime on my Helios also has nothing on it modwise right now because I was leveling it, and both were under the same crappy conditions - 1 corrosive projection.

This is also a common theme over all the weapon builds of yours I tested against the cookie cutter metabuilds, Soma, Ignis Wraith, etc.

 

 

Bottom line the website needs a much better way of critiquing builds and there validity, being based on clicks is an extremely poor system and I can't say I'm sad to see it go. I can see why comment sections aren't a thing on it aswell, but maybe give creators the option to open themselves up to constructive criticism via a opt in comment section?

Edited by LuckyNines
typos and stuff

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Il y a 5 heures, LuckyNines a dit :

Bottom line the website needs a much better way of critiquing builds and there validity, being based on clicks is an extremely poor system and I can't say I'm sad to see it go.

15

This. That's what I'm trying to explain, something else will replace the popularity, and it's not a big loss. It just takes time and I don't have much, but I'll try to have everything ready for the May, 25. All that is needed now is a bit of patience.

As I said a few posts above, I'll go back to an active system with votes (likes) that'll be deleted over the time. To help you track this, I'll probably add a page on your account with all the builds you voted for and the time before your vote expires, I'll probably let you refresh your votes up to 7 days before they get deleted, and maybe add a favorite system to let you... well, set up to 20 or 30 builds as favorite to retrieve them easily, for whatever purpose you want. I hope that all of this will make a good and not too boring to use system.

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