Stoi84

Warframe Builder

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SSJneo    0

I dont know if im looking at it wrong or if this has already been addressed, but the the extra effect damage is not being added for the elements.

For example fire does extra damage to infested so you should have a block to check for that as well or add the ratio into it. 

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Darzk    2,841

I dont know if im looking at it wrong or if this has already been addressed, but the the extra effect damage is not being added for the elements.

For example fire does extra damage to infested so you should have a block to check for that as well or add the ratio into it. 

 

Have you tried clicking the 'Details' button?

 

Also the help link? aka this post?

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A question: is there such a thing a BURST DPS on a charged weapons like bows, and the Angstrum?

 

I was making a build for Angstrum when I found a couple of builds advertising "200k charged damage" blah-blah... but when you look at the stats, you will not see 200k damage anywhere.

 

My guess is that they took the damage shown in the BURST DPS and multiplied it by the number of rockets their build has. One guy had like 50+k BURST DPS and had 4 rockets, and another had 30+k and had 7. I'm also guessing that maybe they also haven't figured out that when you click on "NON CHARGED" just above the stats it would toggle between Charged and Non-charged stats.

 

If I am correct, that on such weapons there is no burst fire and that the BURST DPS stat is meaningless, then perhaps you can remove those stats for these weapons, or at the very least they would not be calculated and show something "N/A" for Not Applicable or just "-". That should help remove the confusion and lessen falsely advertised builds.

Edited by Samura1Kitten

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Darzk    2,841

Burst dps is a thing with charged weapons, its just an oft overlooked stat. It's relevant to the scenario where you start with an uncharged weapon and want to kill a guy. The burst DPS is affected by the initial charge time, while damage per shot is not, and sustained includes the following reload.

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Stoi84    748

Burst DPS, in the case of Warframe Builder, is the damage you can do over the time without reloading (magazine full to empty), compared to sustained DPS, which includes magazine size and the reload time (magazine full to empty + reload + magazine full to empty + reload...). If you empty a magazine to kill an enemy, then you can say you had a DPS equal to the burst DPS. If you need 2 magazines, then you can say your DPS was the sustained DPS.

 

In the case you explain Samura1Kitten, it's sounds more like an understanding problem to me, from the author, maybe because something is not clear enough with the values, or just because the author want to do propaganda with the title. Anyway. The total damage listed is the damage from 1 shot, including all the bullets. All damage values listed (slash, puncture, elemental, etc) includes all the bullets. All the stats listed are for 1 shot except the DPS stats (burst and sustained), which use the damage from 1 shot to indicate a value over the time.

 

The thing I need to do, is to set the burst DPS value equal to the total damage for weapons with only 1 ammo in the magazine. This is not the case at the moment and this causes wrong values to display, because the total damage from 1 shot is still multiplied by the fire rate, which obviously makes no sense if you only have 1 ammo in the magazine. The burst DPS is still an interesting value for charged weapons with more than 1 ammo, because it's supposed to include charge time in the calculation. I just checked and see that I created some problems with the last update, showing 2 burst and sustained values. I'll fix that in the next hours.

 

I'll also add the new weapon soon.

Edited by Stoi84
  • Upvote 1

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Stoi84    748

No, and I don't, it's ok for me with only 1 value for each. Try F5 to see if that fixes the problem.

Edited by Stoi84

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Darzk    2,841

The thing I need to do, is to set the burst DPS value equal to the total damage for weapons with only 1 ammo in the magazine.

 

I don't like this change. The only weapon it makes sense on is Vectis. Every other weapon with a single ammo magazine has to charge the shot, so the charge speed should be included in the burst DPS. It makes no sense to me that adding Speed Trigger to a Bow no longer affects burst DPS, when it clearly does in game.

 

If we're assuming we're starting with an arrow fully charged, thats what TOTAL DAMAGE is for. If we're looking at DPS over a longer engagement, SUSTAINED DPS is the key. But when we're looking for a DPS number relevant to 'how good is this weapon at killing with a single shot without a precharge', the old BURST DPS was relevant. Now it might as well be removed as it provides no new information.

 

For example, Paris Prime reloads faster than Dread, but Dread does more damage per hit (with crits). So it's logical to say that although the sustained DPS is roughly the same, Dread has more burst DPS because the time to release the first arrow is the same and Dread's hits harder.

Edited by Darzk

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Stoi84    748

The 'old' burst DPS value was not showing what you say, It was showing the average damage you could do in a second using only charged attacks, no matter the magazine size. With a charge time of 0.6 and a total damage of 100, it would have display 167 because in a second, you can fire 1.67 time with these values. So 100 was multiplied by 1.67. It was not the damage for 1 charged shot but for 1.67, which was not possible because of the magazine size.

 

But there's still something weird yes, the new value is not really more interesting than the old one. I think I may need to create another value for these weapons to show what you are talking about, but I'm still not sure what you mean by 'how good is this weapon at killing with a single shot without a precharge'. In fact, I can't translate this into a formula that makes sense or doesn't already exists. Should I use the charge speed ? But to display what ? Regarding the previous values, you can say you can hit for 100 damage in 0.6 seconds. I'm still not sure what to add to the maths to fit your explanation so if you can explain more in details, it could help. I can also simply remove the burst DPS value for weapons with only 1 ammo in the magazine.

Edited by Stoi84

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Darzk    2,841

Hmm, guess I wasn't paying attention to the old number all that much either.

No, wait, that's right. If it takes less than a second to fire an arrow (from an unknocked position) the burst DPS should be more than the damage per shot.

 

I would like to see the BURST DPS value, for the bows, to equal TOTAL DAMAGE / CHARGE SPEED.

 

What it would be representing is the damage you do per second, in a scenario where the reload is irrelevant (such as taking a single shot). Because, frankly, with the bows usually only a single shot is needed. If I wander across a single enemy my sustained dps isnt gonna matter, and if the shots not pre-charged that burst value is more important than damage per shot.

 

Eh, in the end it's all sophistry. The total and sustained is all anyone *really* cares about.

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Stoi84    748

TOTAL DAMAGE / CHARGE SPEED is what I explained and what was used before (100/0.6 = 100*1.67). But I don't think this value is accurate. You said it, it should be representative of the damage you do per second, in a scenario where the reload is irrelevant, but the problem here is that the time between each reload is shorter than a second, so it would be impossible to reach the displayed value with only 1 ammo in magazine, because it use a second shot in the maths (for the 0.4 seconds after the first shot). That's why I said I can simply remove the burst DPS value for this kind of cases, because the current value is not good too.

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Darzk    2,841

Damage per second and damage within one second are different values and should be treated differently. You're thinking of the latter.

 

If I have a bow that deals 60 damage after a 0.6 second charge speed and a bow that deals 60 damage after a 0.8 second charge speed, they should have different burst dps values, even if they deal the same amount of damage within a one second window. Lets say the first bow has a reload of 0.9 seconds and the second a reload of 0.7, giving them the same sustained and total damage values. Which bow would you rather have? There needs to be a representative number for instantaneous damage output.

 

For me, at least, burst dps doesn't mean the damage within a one second window, but rather a theoretical number representing a damage potential ignoring the reality of reloads. It's equally applicable to a single shot magazine as to a 100 round magazine because we're ignoring the reality of reloads anyway. For example, with the Boltor Prime, I'm usually firing for less than a second per burst - this doesn't affect my theoretical burst dps. I'm not saying 'hey im only shooting for 3/4 of a second so im really doing 3/4 DPS', it's 'hey, Im shooting for 3/4 of a second so Im doing 3/4 of the DPS in 3/4 of the time' - etc theoretical burst DPS is unchanged.

 

Eh, in the end it's all sophistry. The total and sustained is all anyone *really* cares about.

It actually barely matters at all because all the bows have the same charge speed, but could be relevant in the future.

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Stoi84    748

The problem is not firing for more than a second or not, it's to have to reload before the end of the second. Ignoring this will result in theoretical unreachable burst DPS. I know it's not a problem for you because of the way you see the burst DPS, but it may be a problem for a lot of people and for the logic of the values between the weapons. I understand and I agree with what you say about the 2 bows having the same sustained DPS, but I don't think the burst DPS is the value we need for this because it'll lead to a lot of misunderstanding.

 

The problem with the burst DPS is that even if you use it as a theoretical number, it's not the way the formula works. The burst DPS for most of the weapons is the total damage multiplied by the rate of fire. So it shows an average damage over a second. It can be used the way you do (not to compare bows to rifles for example), but you can't take the 'second' thing out, because it uses the fire rate in the maths. If it uses the fire rate, it can't be different, it must say 'second' somewhere. Of course you can fire for 0.5 seconds and you'll do the burst DPS value divided by 2 as your damage with the burst DPS value as your DPS, and for most of the weapons, the value will still be true because you can fire for 1 second if you want and reach the displayed value. You can't with a bow, this is the problem for me. And if I change this formula for the bows, it'll lead, as I said, to a lot of misunderstanding.

 

I think too that what you explained with the bows should be shown in a way or another. What I can do is to create another value not named burst DPS (not even DPS by the way), for the bows, and display the value [total damage / charge time], the value used for the burst DPS in fact. It'll be a value that you can use to compare the bows to other bows only, because it'll not be a reachable DPS value for weapons with charge time < 1 and 1 ammo in magazine. If it does not mention the fact that it's a DPS value, then it's ok, it simply becomes a real comparative value you can use the way you do at the moment, and there's least risks to see this value compared with a rifle for example, because of the different name. To resume, just change the 'Burst DPS' name of the value for the bows (and every weapon with 1 ammo in magazine and charge time < 1) to something else, use the current  Burst DPS formula , then we have no misunderstandings and a way to compare the bows between them (only), because there's no accurate 'Burst DPS' value possible for (for the bows with 1 ammo and charge time < 1) the way the Burst DPS works in the builder.

Edited by Stoi84

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Stoi84    748

I fixed the red critical formula, and added a new 'bow burst' stat.

 

At the moment, bows have only 1 ammo in magazine, you need to reload after each shot. With a good charge speed (with Speed Trigger for example), you can charge a shoot in something like 0.6s. This caused the burst DPS value to be not accurate, showing an unreachable value because you were not able to fire for an entire second without reloading. To make things clear, I added the bow burst value, which will replace the burst DPS when you have a charge speed < 1 and when you are, of course, on the 'charged' tab for a bow. In fact, this value uses the same formula as the burst DPS, but the name is now different. In the case of a charge attack for a bow with charge speed < 1, this is no longer a value you can reach, but a comparative value. Burst DPS makes no sense if you can't fire for an entire second. You can use this value to compare bows with other bows, to see how a bow will perform in the first second. The higher the value, the best and the faster the damage in the first second. You cannot compare this value with the burst DPS of a rifle because the bow burst value is an interpolation of what would be the burst DPS, but you can't reach this value for a bow, it's theoretical, so as I said, it can only be used to compare bows to other bows.

 

I'm not sure if it's clear, but this is how it works now :D

Edited by Stoi84

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Holymartyr    37

Clicked on 'News and Bug report' - got brought here, so I guess you want bugs here. Burston Prime damage stats are wrong, in-game they show 11.7/11.7/15.6 for Imp/Pun/Slash, where as on Warframe Builder they show 35.1/35.1/46.8.

Edited by Holymartyr

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Stoi84    748

Yeah, this is normal. The damages displayed are the damages from 1 shot, not 1 bullet, and you are firing 3 bullets per shot.

Edited by Stoi84

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Holymartyr    37

Oh wow...guess I should have figured that - might want to throw up a note or something? Sorry for the inconvenience.

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Stoi84    748

Quick fix for the Rhino Vanguard Helmet, the -power strength% now affects the base power value of the mods.

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xlraistlx    4,640

I think something broke with the fix to the Rhino Vanguard helmet.

 

Whenever add a warframe mod that affects power strength I get another line on the stats that says: "+NaN%BASE POWER STRENGTH".

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Stoi84    748

I fixed many things about this, should work now.

 

Edit : still fixing problems.

Edited by Stoi84

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SSJneo    0

 

Have you tried clicking the 'Details' button?

 

Also the help link? aka this post?

It does not apply to what I asked. By the way the I don't know if its being a little trippy or not but the damage for at least the dread is not properly equated correctly. 

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SSJneo    0

Never mind its because the base damage is wrong. The base damage should be double what it's showing.

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