Mele Combat, Weapons And Mods After Patch 7 Discussion

[Dreed]

After patch 7 my all mele weapon are realy weak. Even with dmg mods its still kinda weak. 15 base dmg +47% is nothis special in combat. Its hard to kill 43 lvl Infestation mob when im hitting Charger for 10 ;/.

I think all weapon lost they special abilitty. Dual Zoren dont have 30% base crit chance, i put another 30% crit chance so i should see many times Crits.. but its nothig like that.

What are ur experiance with mele after patch 7...

Edited March 20, 2013 by Dreed

[MangoMonkey]

The Weapons have been drastically changed, for sure, but no-one has yet put out the patch notes to tell us how they've been changed. Until we actually get this information, I suspect we're all modding/using our Weapons wrong through ignorance.

[Dreed]

i think its correct.. now we dont know nothig more about weapon like dmg, rate, acc and clip for guns. We dont know about charge, crit and all usefull information what we get with old MOD system and Skill Tree.

Still i think there is a big mistake to remove Skill Tree.. it should be changed not removed.. now even with mods many .. many weapon will be not usefull on higher lvls of mobs.. like on Endless Def mission.

ATM only usefull is Shotguns - better mods than Rifle - Pistols - Same situation like with shotguns - and from Rifle BOLTOR -- because it avoid enemy armor so DMG mods and Multishot make him a realy good and usefull weapon. My Braton Vandal deal 7 dmg with same mobs and same mods.

but back to mele weapon.. testes Dual Zorens - LOVE it crit chance build -> now i can forgot about it - and Fang - Daggers what have same dmg but lowe speed. ATM i try farm Saryn on Sedna.

VS grineers:

Dual Zorens have dmg around 8 with no crits normal attack:

Fang have dmg around 31 with no crit normal attack.

We realny need more info about weapons.. and weapon should earn some stats with lvl... realy. ATM make any of weapon simillar to weapons before patch 7 its impossible, and i even think with whole skill tree what we get + current mod system will not allow us to do same OP setup of weapons.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Dreed

[Aggh]

i think its correct.. now we dont know nothig more about weapon like dmg, rate, acc and clip for guns. We dont know about charge, crit and all usefull information what we get with old MOD system and Skill Tree.

Still i think there is a big mistake to remove Skill Tree.. it should be changed not removed.. now even with mods many .. many weapon will be not usefull on higher lvls of mobs.. like on Endless Def mission.

ATM only usefull is Shotguns - better mods than Rifle - Pistols - Same situation like with shotguns - and from Rifle BOLTOR -- because it avoid enemy armor so DMG mods and Multishot make him a realy good and usefull weapon. My Braton Vandal deal 7 dmg with same mobs and same mods.

but back to mele weapon.. testes Dual Zorens - LOVE it crit chance build -> now i can forgot about it - and Fang - Daggers what have same dmg but lowe speed. ATM i try farm Saryn on Sedna.

VS grineers:

Dual Zorens have dmg around 8 with no crits normal attack:

Fang have dmg around with no crit normal attack.

We realny need more info about weapons.. and weapon should earn some stats with lvl... realy. ATM make any of weapon simillar to weapons before patch 7 its impossible, and i even think with whole skill tree what we get + current mod system will not allow us to do same OP setup of weapons.

You left out the number, but I'm assuming it's higher since Daggers ignore armor.

I'd say it's fairly obvious how the melee weapons have changed. They're back to default stats since they're are no passives earned from leveling up weapons.

I haven't seen any war frame melee mods so I'd say it's safe to assume that all melee weapons are much weaker than they used to be.

Right now the best bet would be to use frames that have better base melee damage (loki, Ash, excalibur, rhino) and mod towards the the strengths of the melee weapon. Ex Dual zorens still have great crit chance so that means +melee damage, +crit chance, +crit damage, armor piercing (for grineer), and fire (for infested).

Edited March 20, 2013 by Aggh

[Ranzou]

maybe should test it again after got melee damage mod for warframe.. the question is ... is there any melee damage mod again on this patch?

[ShadowsCrush]

yeah there's still a melee dmg mod, I have a 7% one, pressure point I think, but its a melee weapon mod not a frame mod

[Dreed]

Sorry forgot to add my Fang dmg.

nope .. with Fang my dmg on Charger and Ancient is only 10.. on Grineers is 31 or normal Infestation - dont remeber what about Corpus...

Hmm like im said.. before patch Dual Zoren base Crit chance was 30%... now i add 30% so its should be 60%.. every 2nd hit should be crit .. but nothig happen.. Crit DMG is higher that Fang but still nothig special with crit chance.

I dont saw any Mele DMG mod for Warframes yet. Mele DMG MOD for mele weapon is only 42% max, so its very very weak mod for weapon like daggers, swords etc.. atm dual hand weapon will be stron enought to kick some mobs &#!.

With current MOD system we should have dedicated(DMG, Multishot,etc) mods for all weapons and normal MODS (Fire rate, Clip Cap, ammo max, fire/ice/ele dmg etc) .. why.. to avoid situation like we have atm..

Players start using only FEW weapons what can deal good dmg with Single kind of MODS Like Gorgon, HEK, BOLTOR, pistols... Before patch i love to play with my Braton Vandal.. now i dont want to see it.. because its so weak vs all kind of mobs.

Still dont understand why Pistol can have 120% mulstishot like shotguns and rifle only 60%.

Still we dont know if mod what we use will help us or not.. like Crit chance for BOLTOR.. i lost tons of cash - around 1,7kk before mod fusion price change - to make some mods on max lvl.. +45% crit chance for rifle.. i should see alot of yellow number .. but i dont.. dont event think there is only way to get crit is a headshot... its kinda anoying.. many many thinks was missed in patch notes..

HOPE DE can explain us what is going on and what and why they change so many thinks what dont work.

Edited March 20, 2013 by Dreed

[Jinpu]

Melee fire rate is clearly bugged. I can't use Dual Zoren anymore because it charges...

[Steeldragonz]

lol this is perfectly normal... remember U7 was all about nerfing us to hell so we have to timesink more gameplay to get anything.

[Shunayo]

I am in the same boat as Jinpu, I can't mouse wheel up and down to massacre things with my zorens anymore, they are more choppy and occasionally start up a charge attack... :(

[--Sensei--]

Dual Zorens are bugged, can't swing normally without it spazzing out or trying to charge atk mid melee, or just plain sputtering and pausing between each melee swing.

if any DE staff members can take a look at the dual zorens, they are definitely not working as intended.

[Ic3man360]

I'm in the same boat with Zorens, fragor, and my other weapons... if you use them very rapidly, they will stop the animation and charge... or if you run and tap melee, they will charge sometimes... clearly buggy as all be, and so I don't even use melee weapons anymore...

[Nokturnal]

So far, I don't know if it's bad luck or what, but I can't get my rifles to do anywhere near as well as they used to.

I think I really need some clip capacity mods for my shotgun but so far no luck in getting them.

My pistols on the other hand... my Akboltos are ripping things to shreds (I can only fathom that it's because i've gotten a ton of good pistol mods and the mods add aton of dmg)

I haven't even bothered to try to use melee as my main way to attack things yet, but I can see how it'd be a problem in the new system.

Rank 1 of pistol damage mod adds +20% damage

Rank 1 of melee damage mod adds +7% damage

While Rank 1 of Rifle mod adds +10% damage.

(And they all scale accordingly)

Was it always like this in the old system? The damage mods you got from passively leveling up were all the same % right? Seems just due to the standard damage increase pistols become strongest fastest, while rifles and melee take a long long time to get good.

[Dreed]

old system was to OP and this system is much better but current mods are bugged .. have difrent stats and many weapon arent usefull... we will get alot of fixes before this system will works good.. but its MUCH BETTER than OLD ONE.

[Stew360]

Melee fire rate is clearly bugged. I can't use Dual Zoren anymore because it charges...

yep melee seams to have a bug i feel their is a LAG input also in how respond the Melee weapons now but it look like a bug more than it look like a change they really want to made

Also the (( finishing moove )) as a huge delay and is unresponsive but nothing to do with intentional change iam pretty confident of that

[Stew360]

old system was to OP and this system is much better but current mods are bugged .. have difrent stats and many weapon arent usefull... we will get alot of fixes before this system will works good.. but its MUCH BETTER than OLD ONE.

i agree stacking stuff like no end and over boosting caracter when it finally become boring , that make you feel like a wolve in a chicken coop

The new systhem is a whole lots better thats for sure

[Nokturnal]

i agree stacking stuff like no end and over boosting caracter when it finally become boring , that make you feel like a wolve in a chicken coop

I know there's people that stacked mods in order to become godly, but I never really stacked mods to become godly in the old system. I stacked mods that made the game more fun.

+10 Puncture on a shotgun? Talk about a fun way to clear a room!

+50% runspeed on a rhino? Finally, he's not freakishly slow!

Stacking in that sense wasn't OP, it just added some more fun to the game. The new puncture mods make me cry a little on the inside. They were trying to get people not to stack multishot mods but now I'm focusing completely on multishot and just pure dmg cause Puncture isn't viable.

[Dreed]

Maybe fun for you but ppl with this stuck of mod just kill any teamplay and whole sense Co-op playstyle.. and they usualy or for special join online game to show others his powers... it was insane.

[--Sensei--]

new system killed the melee clique and aspect of it completely, just saying.

Now guns are more viable than melees.

Melees are outdated because guns can do it better in update 7, no point in playing with melee now. Might as well scrap the melee aspect of the game.

[TheNZX]

There's some serious problems with melee now.

Melee feels off, and obviously does less damage without the passive skill tree

Melee seems to charge if you use it right out of running.

Melee commands seems to stack for some reason

some execution melee animations are too damn slow, and will activate when there's nothing there.

[Dreed]

even most of weapons sux with dmg ;]

another bug with new "stealth attack" - i thought it should kill enemy with this attack.. but nothing happen on mobs 20+.. some hp left.. after stealth attack our whole work on silance playstyle is destroyed ;/

Edited March 20, 2013 by Dreed

[Laki]

There's some serious problems with melee now.

Melee feels off, and obviously does less damage without the passive skill tree

Melee seems to charge if you use it right out of running.

Melee commands seems to stack for some reason

some execution melee animations are too damn slow, and will activate when there's nothing there.

Yup, I have all of those problems. Seems like everyone with dual zorens is having this issue -- are you using a different weapon?

Whatever the case, definitely post in the bug forums if you haven't already.

[NDroid]

Before U7 much of our melee damage stats came from 70%+ frame mods. The Dual Zoren builds for example really relied on them. So far I haven't seen any and such mods in the new system and even if there are- you'll only be able to use one and the 60 energy points system means it'll be competing with other important aspects.

Another thing is AP damage mods, they were possibly the best of all the "elemental" mods but so far I've haven't any, for any weapon type. I'm not even sure they're still in the game, has anyone seen one drop?

With all this, it does seem like melee is much less viable now at higher difficulty levels. Frames that were really good with it like my Loki will probably see less usage for now.

Edited March 21, 2013 by NDroid

[Nokturnal]

Before U7 much of our melee damage stats came from 70%+ frame mods. The Dual Zoren builds for example really relied on them. So far I haven't seen any and such mods in the new system and even if there are- you'll only be able to use one and the 60 energy points system means it'll be competing with other important aspects.

Another thing is AP damage mods, they were possibly the best of all the "elemental" mods but so far I've haven't any, for any weapon type. I'm not even sure they're still in the game, has anyone seen one drop?

With all this, it does seem like melee is much less viable now at higher difficulty levels. Frames that were really good with it like my Loki will probably see less usage for now.

I've gotten Armor Pen mods for all weapon types, but like very few so far.

They're about as rare as shield and health mods. (Possibly more rare)

And as far as melee goes, my supercharged Fragor sucks, my supercharged Scindo sucks, my supercharged dual zorens suck. My plasma sword does decent charged damage though but I usually just stick to my pistols cause the amount of damage they do vs everything else I got is insane.

I swear the new mod system either made pistols godly or I'm just extremely lucky with pistol mods.

I can understand why a lot of melee weapons suck now though. I'm pretty sure the passive upgrades in the old Skill Trees were a flat increase and not a % increase. With the new system, it's all % increase. Meaning you could stick a maxed out Charge Speed mod on a Scindo and it'd still charge extremely slow.

In the new system instead of modding to fix weapons weaknesses you have to mod to amplify their strengths. For example, Viper has a realllly quick reload speed but a small clip, don't bother trying to increase the clip, stick a good reload speed mod on it and it'll only take 0.01 second to reload it lol..

For melee, if you didn't notice melee dmg mod starts at only +7% melee damage.... aka horrrible, but charged dmg mods start at +25%, so find a melee weapon with a good charged attack damage and charges quick, stick the Charged Dmg and Charge Speed mod on it and goto town. (Upgrade them as much as possible too obviously)

---

Edited March 21, 2013 by Nokturnal

[Zetalleon]

new system killed the melee clique and aspect of it completely, just saying.

Now guns are more viable than melees.

Melees are outdated because guns can do it better in update 7, no point in playing with melee now. Might as well scrap the melee aspect of the game.

That's how it is in real life too, haha.

The auto charge bug is annoying but I personally find that unless your weapon has default armor penatration you do a lot less damage now. There is a possibility that they increased the armor of the enemies or because armor pen mods are much weaker now and less worthy to upgrade. Fang and the Bolt series is really strong right now but even they can't stand up to enemies above level 50. (Io waves 20+)