Shotinthedark79 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I was helping out a buddy the other day because he is fairly new to the game. We went to a survival mission that was normally a tier 1 mission, but it was on nightmare mode so the enemies were harder as well as the health drain being applied. I was fine with this and we ended up with a Shred mod which is nice, but the incremental rewards for surviving were trash. We got some random mod, a couple credits, but we stayed for the key which was only a T1 Capture. Not many people I know play Nightmare mode for the fun of it. (I may be wrong on that) The people I have ever played with wanted to get the mission done as quickly as possible for the sole reason of getting the Nightmare mod reward (which only depends on mission completion). There needs to be more incentive for playing these missions (playing, not running). Give us a reward for choosing harder content. Better loot tables, slight increase on Affinity gain, something worth while because as it stands now, once you have nightmare mods, why you ever run the missions again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makya Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Better loot tables, slight increase on Affinity gain, something worth while because as it stands now, once you have nightmare mods, why you ever run the missions again. Same reason you would Run ODs or any Tower other than survival, or heck, even later planets.. No reason at all. You gain more affinity as they are higher level mobs anyways. The tables are set for that planet, nightmare only increase the level and in exchange you gain a reward for the challenge, a Nightmare mod. Side note: A better loot table won't do anything with the conditional 'I have all the mods'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROteinxstack Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) I was helping out a buddy the other day because he is fairly new to the game. We went to a survival mission that was normally a tier 1 mission, but it was on nightmare mode so the enemies were harder as well as the health drain being applied. I was fine with this and we ended up with a Shred mod which is nice, but the incremental rewards for surviving were trash. We got some random mod, a couple credits, but we stayed for the key which was only a T1 Capture. Not many people I know play Nightmare mode for the fun of it. (I may be wrong on that) The people I have ever played with wanted to get the mission done as quickly as possible for the sole reason of getting the Nightmare mod reward (which only depends on mission completion). There needs to be more incentive for playing these missions (playing, not running). Give us a reward for choosing harder content. Better loot tables, slight increase on Affinity gain, something worth while because as it stands now, once you have nightmare mods, why you ever run the missions again. I have not ran a single nightmare mission since I received all the mods I needed. If I wanted to use higher level enemies to gain affinity faster, I would just choose a non-nightmare mission to do so, why incur the extra penalty? I agree nightmare isn't what it should be right now, I think DE knows that amongst other things that could use tweaking. When I used to play Doom on nightmare, I did it purely for the insanity of it and to see how fast I could get through a level because well... the monsters always respawned. One thing Doom did do right on nightmare was an increase in ammo. Every ammo drop had double the ammo you used to. Perhaps there should be more modifiers to the ammo/health drops to offset the detriment of a nightmare mission. Also, there should be something else... perhaps a hardcore status given to players that play the majority of the time in nightmare... Ok, here is an idea that is very rudimentary but could develop into something substantial: EVERY NIGHTMARE MISSION YOU COMPLETE GRANTS YOU A SKULL BADGE WITH A COUNTER ON IT. For example: I play 5 nightmare missions last week, my badge has a skull with an x 5 next to it. This counter resets every week. The more nightmare missions you complete, the badge gets meaner and the number goes up... at 10 you begin to get corrupted, the badge hologram spreads like a disease and infects your warframe's armor, covering you in nightmare... stuff until you become... A NIGHTMARE!!!! bwahahahha I mean really, what is the difference between someone that plays nightmare over normal? Competition? Skill level? Masochism? A Death Wish? All of these point to the player's personality and motive so why not give a reward that mimics that? I dunno, someone go with this. Edited January 16, 2014 by PROteinxstack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY13ERPUNK Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) well honestly the nightmare dual mods are kinda THE reward and some of them are definitely "worth it" but the bottom line is that nightmare mode is not really all that much more challenging and it needs more modes/schticks/etc how about more heavy units? or enemies get nastier special abilities (ie seekers get the nervos back, etc), more environmental hazards like fire/ice do more dmg/less shields (remove/rework the existing no-shields and vampire modes) instead of the timer where you kill and get more time, how about a mission where you've only got 5-10 mins, period (or at the very least the timer could be extended ONLY thru hacking panels to open locked doors) another idea is for enemy's to more aggresively try to lock-in/contain the tenno, with barricades and locked doors that cannot be hacked but must be destroyed to break thru the barricade (then with more baddies on the other side, or the exit, whatevs) Edited January 16, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubedOobleck Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Instead of getting extraction credits I think there should be an extraction multiplier that affect all the credits and resources we collected during the mission. Of course the multiplier should be directly related to enemy level, but it would be increased further by random events (like frozen map), alerts (as it would replace the credit reward), nightmare debuffs, Orokin Tower, etc. This wouldn't affect other extraction rewards like the mods, keys, bp, etc, but it would at least give a reason to go higher level missions besides affinity. It would also make it worth checking the lockers on some missions, since the stuff they drop would actually scale at the extraction. Edit: of course stuff could actually drop more abundantly during the harder mission, but DE has failed to implement this obvious thing in a noteworthy way; the extraction multiplier would at least be clear, unequivocal and easy to give feedback on. Edited January 16, 2014 by CubedOobleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROteinxstack Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Instead of getting extraction credits I think there should be an extraction multiplier that affect all the credits and resources we collected during the mission. Of course the multiplier should be directly related to enemy level, but it would be increased further by random events (like frozen map), alerts (as it would replace the credit reward), nightmare debuffs, Orokin Tower, etc. This wouldn't affect other extraction rewards like the mods, keys, bp, etc, but it would at least give a reason to go higher level missions besides affinity. It would also make it worth checking the lockers on some missions, since the stuff they drop would actually scale at the extraction. Edit: of course stuff could actually drop more abundantly during the harder mission, but DE has failed to implement this obvious thing in a noteworthy way; the extraction multiplier would at least be clear, unequivocal and easy to give feedback on. This still doesn't solve the Nightmare reward issue, you can say the same for any high level mission. How does nightmare change warframe aside from difficulty and mods? What is the point of playing nightmare after said mods are obtained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makya Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 What is the point of playing nightmare after said mods are obtained? Nightmare mode is built only for you to gain nightmare mods. Why would it need a second thing to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makemap Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) I think Nightmare mode defense/survival rewards should start with uncommon to rare mods instead of the crappy common ones we have in normal missions. Maybe "Fever Strike" and all the new Poison modes in them seeing how hard they are to obtain. Maybe a chance of getting a 2nd nightmare mode 15 mins+/15 waves+. Edited January 16, 2014 by Makemap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotinthedark79 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Personally. one tweak that I think would be a nice touch would be if there is a survival or defense mission in nightmare, the mod would be a reward during the mission, not after. So after 5 mins you have a chance of getting a nightmare mod, after 5 waves you get a chance of a mod. Also, what if there were a higher chance for fusion cores and better cores at that. I also agree that harder enemies would be nice, like more heavies, but I think that is an issue with the entire late game, not just nightmare mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvadin Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I personally would like nightmare mod rewards to scale with the planet. Better nightmare mod rewards on harder planets! Because as it stands, it's kinda pointless doing nightmare missions on any planet other than Venus because you can obtain 90% of all the nightmare mods. (Phobos non-withstanding. That's actually the right way to do things imho.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubedOobleck Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 This still doesn't solve the Nightmare reward issue, you can say the same for any high level mission. How does nightmare change warframe aside from difficulty and mods? What is the point of playing nightmare after said mods are obtained?Hey, if thanks to nightmare the orokin cells dropped by enemies are multiplied by a bigger number, you'll see me farming them like crazy, and I won't be rushing to the exit xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotinthedark79 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Hey, if thanks to nightmare the orokin cells dropped by enemies are multiplied by a bigger number, you'll see me farming them like crazy, and I won't be rushing to the exit xD At least until you got a handful of em. Then you wouldn't touch it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PROteinxstack Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 At least until you got a handful of em. Then you wouldn't touch it again. Exactly. Its nice they added the bonus credits into the Nightmare rewards since latest update. What else can we think of as an incentive for players to continue to choose nightmare over regular? I guess as a frame of reference all I can think of is how I play games. I choose the hardest difficulty and beat my head over it until I get it right, figuring I'll either beat it or get better trying. Just thinking out loud here: How can nightmare challenge a player and yet help them get better? Here is a thought: Have nightmare missions be STATIC missions based on time trials / set groups of enemies. Allow the nightmare tile to not change enemy location or amounts. It can also be timed based on the # of tiles that are between the start and end of the map (completing all objectives). There might be an estimate that can be given based on how many tiles are created and how long the average completion time for a tile is. This would allow for greater competition between players (completion time for nightmare tiles etc.), and would allow players to continue to replay a mission over and over again until they feel they have mastered it, getting the best time they could with all the difficulty modifiers created via nightmare. Think of it like a gauntlet of sorts. One of the main limiters of nightmare is that since the game is so focused on procedural events, there is no way to anticipate how adding an extra layer of difficulty will make or break the player experience. Making the mission static will allow a controlled environment where DE can call the shots with more precision. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotinthedark79 Posted January 19, 2014 Author Share Posted January 19, 2014 I personally like the idea of what they did with the Harvester and the invasion missions. They could add some other type of type of encounter that is brought on by completing nightmare missions. If they did this I think the best way would be to add a point system rather than number of missions run. This would mean that harder missions would give more points and missions like Survival and Defense would reward more the longer you stay. It could be a lone mercenary looking for a worthy challenger (make it acceptable or decline-able if you don't feel ready). I think that this should be for the higher tier players 1v1. With all of the content that they push they want to make it playable for most of the people in the game. The downside of that is that the people that have been playing for a long time can straight up murder whatever is thrown at them. I heard of people 1-shotting the Harvester with a Penta before they even knew it was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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