...so, Is The Proc System Not Changing?

[shut]

When Damage 2.0 first came out, the first thing I noticed was the incredibly strange proc system. Many people, myself included, pointed out on the forums that the proc system in general was horrendously out of whack-- ridiculously imbalanced between weapons, and completely unreliable on every weapon except for a small few that can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

 

If you weren't using something like:

- Grakata

- Soma

- Synapse

- Miter

- Galatine (to an extent)

 

then you simply could not integrate procs into your gameplay, because you couldn't ever rely on them happening. No matter how you modded those weapons, they'd still be junk in the proc department.

 

 

So, upon noticing that, I was all, "Okay, I'll just accept it for now and wait for it to be fixed". 

And, after waiting nearly two months for the proc system to receive an update... the Tysis happened. A weapon that is built entirely around the current faulty proc system.

 

 

 

I'm a bit concerned. The whole proc system, while interesting by concept, needed lots of work right from the day that Update 11 hit. I had imagined that it was simply acting as a placeholder for an improved version later on, but DE's release of the Tysis worries me.

I feel as though DE released it because they felt that the current proc system is perfectly satisfactory, and does not need updates. The Tysis came as a bit of a nasty shock for me, since I've been hoping for an updated proc system right from the start of U11.

 

Thoughts? How do you guys feel about the proc system?

[theasl]

What do you think is wrong with it, and what do you suggest they could do to fix it?

 

I don't see anything really wrong with it, to be honest.

[immolator1001]

I think a lot of weapons could have their chances up to like 5% but honestly its pretty good. It'll be even better once they fix the proc for the tysis.

[KijaJouteh]

Yeah, procs need to be higher. DE is "fixing" it. Like everything else wrong with this game.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

MAYBE if the mods that increased the status chance were flat increases instead of percentage increases that would be a step in the right direction

IMHO the elements/status need more differentiation anyways, impact/blast too similiar, toxin/venom/poison too similiar, etc, fire is a dot, poison is a dot, etc

[Firetempest]

The &!$$poor mods that don't offer a flat increase and still only offer a percent of a percent don't help.

10% chance.

how about 15% more?

That might help.

here you go.

But.. this is 11.5% now...

 

So they boost the Cicero Crisis mods. Great. you can get 60% with 7 cost.

But you still have all the Single stat status mods that are are 15%-30% for 9 cost.

And with the vast majority of guns being 10% come on. No amount of rares will get a 10% gun to use effects with any kind of regularity.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Firetempest

[(PSN)A_Cry_For_Death]

Personally, I have never really paid much attention to the proc system. I'm currently using Grakata on a critical chance/damage build, so I could make a proc build, but I don't see the point. Sure, it's nice to have an enemy stunned for a couple seconds every once in a while and many other things, but the base chance is pretty low for a lot of weapons... Mods could be spent on other things.

[shut]

What do you think is wrong with it, and what do you suggest they could do to fix it?

 

I don't see anything really wrong with it, to be honest.

Well, I explained what I don't like about it in the OP. Imbalanced on most weapons (almost always either too strong or too weak), goes against weapon and build variety, etc.

 

My suggested fix is going to require some revision of what certain elemental procs do (Radiation will have to be scrapped, for example), but I think that all procs should have a 100% proc rate at base. Weapons will each have their own base Status Potency stat (replacing the current Status Chance stat).

 

 

The potency of procs can be increased by:

 

- %Status Potency mods, such as Rifle Aptitude

- respective elemental multipliers relative to unmodded base damage (e.g. a maxed Cryo Rounds will slow down an enemy far more than an unranked Cryo Rounds, and an unmodded Cernos is going to cause an enemy to stagger on all hits, whereas a Paris Prime won't). Note that Physical Damage mods will scale off Total Base Damage with this system.

- Stacking hits on top of each other

- Using a weapon with a very low hit rate (e.g. a Sniper bullet will have far more devastating procs than an Assault Rifle bullet, and the effects are instant)

- Using a weapon with a very high hit rate (e.g. an Assault Rifle can stack hits to be more devastating than a Sniper Rifle in the same amount of time, but the effect requires sustained fire and is not instant)

- Using a weapon that has a naturally high Status Potency stat at the cost of nearly everything else (Tysis)

 

The potency of procs can not be increased by:

 

- Base damage increases

- Multishot (the potency of each bullet will be cut down proportionally to the number of bullets released)

 

 

 

 

Example 1: Vulkar

For example, let's say you have a Vulkar. Being a slow weapon, it should naturally have a high Status Potency stat, and let's add maxed Cryo Rounds to it. Note that Vulkar has high Impact damage from the get-go, relative to total base damage.

- High Impact stat ^{(relative to total base damage)}. Staggers enemies on every hit.

- Low Puncture damage. Not high enough to proc Reduced Damage.

- Very low Slash damage. Not high enough to proc Bleed.

- High Freeze damage. Reduces enemy speed by 20% on each hit.

 

Now, let's add Rifle Aptitude to this. Now, your Vulkar has:

- High Impact stat. Staggers enemies on every hit; staggering animation is slowed down by ___%.

- Low Puncture damage. Procs Reduced Damage by 10% on hit (stacks) (requires Piercing Hit to improve).

- Low Slash damage. Procs Bleed on each hit (stacks), but the visual effect and damage are very low (requires Sawtooth Clip to improve).

- High Freeze damage. Reduces enemy speed by 50% on each hit.

 

Example 2: Braton

Now, let's use another weapon as an example-- the fast but weak Braton. Due to its speed, Braton starts out with a very low Status Potency stat. Let's add a maxed Cryo Rounds to it. Note that Braton has a balanced set of stats from the get-go.

- Medium Impact stat. Status Potency too weak to have an effect.

- Medium Puncture stat. Status Potency too weak to have an effect.

- Medium Slash stat. Status Potency too weak to have an effect.

- High Freeze damage. Reduces enemy speed by 5% on each hit.

 

Again, let's add Rifle Aptitude to this. Now, your Braton has:

- Medium Impact stat. Lightly staggers (simple short flinch animation, long enough to stunlock) enemy on hit. Requires Rupture to boost to full-fledged stagger on each hit.

- Medium Puncture stat. Procs Reduced Damage by 4% on hit (stacks) (requires Piercing Hit to improve).

- Medium Slash stat. Procs Bleed on each hit (stacks), but the visual effect and damage are very low. Requires sustained fire to produce noteworthy DoT (requires Sawtooth Clip to improve).

- High Freeze damage. Reduces enemy speed by 13% on each hit (stacks).

 

 

 

Yes, this is primitive. No, it would not go well entering the game in its current state. Yes, it needs lots of work, and lots of trial and error with the community to implement successfully.

However, I feel that 100% proc, with potency that is balanced for each weapon's base stats (high potency for slowbies like Vulkar, low potency for quick attackers like Braton) and fully customizeable with mods is definitely a far better direction than the one we currently have.

Are the procs going to be a bit overpowered if you add on everything? A bit, yeah. Ideally, the proc-producing mods would be rebalanced (possibly with a Corrupted Mod for proc potency, reducing damage or speed) so that if you want to have a full-on Proc beast, you'll need to sacrifice something equally precious, such as damage.

Edited January 21, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Kinperor]

Mods could be spent on other things.

 

That's exactly the issue: procs are not seen as a viable option currently on too many guns. 

 

I mean, sure, we could just have damage, but procs build could be a whole other world of new builds with different intent. Not with the current system tho, unless you use one of the few guns that can afford to procs.

 

My take on this is that DE is perfectly aware of that. They're experimenting and introducing slightly higher procs values all the time progressively to see how the data reacts. 

Edited January 21, 2014 by Kinperor

[Balter]

It would be nice to see the proc system expanded and worked on a bit more. Right now its a bit weird. The Tysis especially highlights the issue between Damage types and procs being dependent on the ratio between your damage types (since it seemingly still "rolls" for physical procs it cant have thus seeming lower than 50-80%)

One thing im hoping for in the near future is mods that differentiate between physical procs and elemental. Such as a "+60% to trigger physical damage effects". Or even focused mods like " +60% freeze damage and +150% chance to trigger freeze effects".

[Kaokasalis]

I do agree with the proc system needing some work but i also think its a good feature to have weapons that specialize in doing damage via procs. Though these weapons should have trade-offs like low base damage or low crit.

[Sixty5]

The proc thing is still being tested, which is why we have all the old stuff set to low proc chance and then some newer stuff set really high. Its so they can see how it works in game and how players use it.

[aa3123]

uh-uh.  There's tysis.  But on a seriously note, tysis's probably DE's attempt at messing around with the proc system.

[ReiganCross]

You're having Mod 2.0 problems where you're trying to deviate from the Min-Maxing curve... Until Mod 2.0 stops being about percentages and becomes about flat values that do not overblow the original numbers, then your weapon with S#&$ty procs will keep having S#&$ty Procs. Because either they have the Proc mods have a ridiculous 500% bonus on max to give 5% proc chance at least a 25% (which is still low, by the way) or you start having mods that will give a flat value of actual 5% increased on top of your 5%, so you could have a 50% chance with a +45% Status Proc mod.

 

Either that or they change the Mod 2.0 entirely.

 

Also, Proc is just the recent name for this problem. You can't turn a low Crit weapon into a high Crit weapon, no matter how hard you want it. You also can't, in any way, add a physical damage type such as Pierce to a weapon that does not have a base Pierce. Or in fact make a Slashing Weapon be about Blunt Damage, no matter how bad you mod it.

 

Mod 2.0 only rule for modding is finding what the weapon does best and modding that. Which means Min-Maxing, not Customizing.

Edited January 21, 2014 by ReiganCross