The Perfect Way To Nerf Nova

[Cyrionn]

Yet another "nerf Nova" thread...what annoys me isn't the fact that it is pointless to nerf a frame that is actually working as intended (most of frames are far from this point) when it's a teamplay game... I mean common, Nova is strong ? Stronger than your Mag ? Say yay, she's gonna carry you... except if you're playing for the Epeen and wanna see the highest %dmg under your name at end. For this there's only a good Oberon (yup, flame me but it iz true!).

 

No what annoys me is that this is basically just some flood, DE wont be reading what should be read because of this kind of thread saying the same damn thing over and over again...

You got a suggestion about Nova ? Feel free to unbury one of the two thousand threads about it and read it because they're is a very HIGH chance that your arguments have already been used.

[Crewell]

I can agree that the duration for the ultimate does seem imbalanced. It should be on par with similar large scale abilities (i.e. Nyx's Chaos) in duration. The effect of the ability doesn't need to be changed though.

[DaveC]

I can agree that the duration for the ultimate does seem imbalanced. It should be on par with similar large scale abilities (i.e. Nyx's Chaos) in duration. The effect of the ability doesn't need to be changed though.

And it shouldn't be able to be recast while in effect

[StuffedTurkey007]

No what annoys me is that this is basically just some flood, DE wont be reading what should be read because of this kind of thread saying the same damn thing over and over again...

You got a suggestion about Nova ? Feel free to unbury one of the two thousand threads about it and read it because they're is a very HIGH chance that your arguments have already been used.

 

I have never read a thread discussing Nova's ult duration scaling with power duration, that's why I posted this. Have you?

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Yet another "nerf Nova" thread...what annoys me isn't the fact that it is pointless to nerf a frame that is actually working as intended (most of frames are far from this point) when it's a teamplay game... I mean common, Nova is strong ? Stronger than your Mag ? Say yay, she's gonna carry you... except if you're playing for the Epeen and wanna see the highest %dmg under your name at end. For this there's only a good Oberon (yup, flame me but it iz true!).

 

I want to actually play the game, not bring my 3x forma'd Gorgon into a mission only to see that Nova has already killed the everything and thus I may as well have gone and done anything else.

[-CM-Syein]

I want to actually play the game, not bring my 3x forma'd Gorgon into a mission only to see that Nova has already killed the everything and thus I may as well have gone and done anything else.

well did you know, I could also kill everything with my other frames as well. Nova is not my exception to "clear a room". 

 

1.Here is the argument: "Nova stole my kills" , other frames with aoe power could as well (overload, crush, stomp, avalanche, WoF etc) WoF is especially killed faster than Nova m-prime at low level if you know how to stack duration/range mode in it. 

 

2.Here's another argument: "Nova power is strong at high level", well...did you know that at high level m-prime act as debuff and not aoe? Basically at that point, you go and kill mobs one-by-one instead of witnessing any chain explode.

 

3.Another argument: "she slowed everyone in level up their stuff", apparently this is how exp mechanic supposed to work (copy and paste from wiki) 

• Suppose Player A kills an enemy with his Warframe ability, and the enemy was worth 500 experience.
  • His Warframe will receive the full 500 experience, while his weapons receive none.
  • His teammates will receive 500 experience each: 125 to their Warframe, 125 to their Primary, 125 to their Secondary and 125 to their Melee.

4. Another argument: "Nova can do everything" <--this is a quote from DaveC (too lazy to look up and check words to words), let me tell you, if Nova can do anything I wouldn't have to take my Rhino/Trinity/ or Valkyr to nightmare mission, or a vauban/frost to defense mission. 

 

5. Another argument: "her ult is the best of all warframe", well, are you comparing ability or a warframe as a whole? Because specific frame go with specific ability. Mag's pull is the best of all 1st skill but is she good as a whole? (corpus maybe), Invisibility/smoke screen are the best 2nd ability but are they both good as a whole? Vauban's bastile is the best 3rd ability, but is he good as a whole? 

Nova's 4th skill is the best but can she do everything as one frame? Which is why 4 novas in a survival/def run never good enough compare to 1 nova with 3 other different frames. 

 

6. Another argument: "Her range is so huge", well (copy and paste, since I already said this before) 

Range is not an argument, here's why: Range contributed differently to different frames. 

Nyx's chaos, Rhino's stomp, shield polarize etc all had the same range as molecular prime (25)

Range can be a disadvantage. Can you imagine a frost having 25m range for snowglobe? How can he protect himself with that ridiculous range while his power is solely for def? 

Vauban's range affect his power strength to hang mobs, so having range doesn't mean it will give him absolute advantage. 

Some abilities doesn't required range, trinity's blessing, renewal, rhino's roar etc, such power had no need for range, it immediately effective no matter where you are. Basically, infinite range. 

 

7. ...jeez just read all the previous comments regarding why many people opposed to Nova's nerf. 

[(PSN)Azure12513]

Seems more like DE has to balance out the other frames more than nerfing the good ones. I do NOT play either Nova or Rhino, but I enjoy grouping with them. I mainly play Ember and Oberon atm and I love them both because of their playstyle. While playing around with Volt I enjoyed his balance quite a lot. Seems giving dps type frames a formula of: 1-minor dmg ability 2-Some form of CC/debuff 3-a slightly defensive move 4-usual high output ulti; would work out just fine. By sticking to such a formula it would at least create a sense of balance for dps frames. Tank/Support frames are a different matter entirely however. The two tanks Frost/Rhino seem to be doing just fine IMO.

[LukeAura]

Would anyone be against just giving her some more mod effect options? 
She doesn't need duration. It only boosts Null Star, which is pretty useless compared to the destructive power of the rest of her kit.  
She doesn't need power strength. It boosts the low damage of Null Star, the useless base damage of AMD, and the damage MP does but that has a 2x damage debuff, and damage drops off with distance meaning boosting range is as good or better than simply boosting the damage itself. 
All she needs is range.
 
Her three usable/best skills can screw over power strength and duration and still end up being at their best. 
I don't think she is necessarily overpowered, just too easy to maximize on. 
My suggestions; 
AMD and MP primes damage buff are dropped slightly, but made moddable by power strength, enough so they can be just a little stronger after focus.  
MPs slow effect is weakened slightly, but can be increased by increasing power duration. Again, enough so it can be a little stronger after continuity. 
Null Star gets buffed in some fashion that it becomes a viable skill. Lot of ways to do this. I don't really care which. 
Wormholes usage limit becomes moddable by power strength. Duration increases its duration. Probably doesn't need its range effect, but maybe that too. 

No changes need to be made to the skills concerning what they do, except Null Star which needs a buff if anything. They just need to be effected by mods in a normal fashion.  



 

[Killerdude8]

2x Damage Dealt to enemies, Check.

Halved speed, and at the same time, Halved DPS, Check.

Chain reaction that can clear small nations in a matter of miliseconds, Check.

Can be cast for 25 energy at NO negative costs, Check.

Can be recast while still active, Check.

Has the Largest AoE of any other Ult, Check.

 

All the while Completely out doing EVERY damage frame in the game.

 

"But she is TOTALLY balanced."

 

Edited January 27, 2014 by Killerdude8

[Ekaterinanl]

You people are just jealous because your favorite frames are not as strong as Nova in term of damage dealing. Nova is fragile in exchange for powerful abilities. Yeah, the slow and x2 damage seems nice but a rocket from Bombard at the feet of a Rhino could kill Nova while leaving Rhino almost unharmed. Everything has its cost, a Rhino can't have massive damage like Nova, a Nova can't have massive defense like Rhino, an Ember can't have healing, a Trinity can't have lots of damage, etc etc. You just mad because at the end, your killing score is less than a Nova. Let me tell you this, your objective is to, well, complete whatever sh*t Lotus tell you to do, not to get the highest score. I can complete a sabotage or spy mission without killing anything. Even if Nova is killing more than you do, he/she is on your team, it's like you are asking to nerf Lina or Lion so they can only have as mush kill as Dazzle and Treant (DotA players will understand). "Hey let's nerf Nova because they are stealing our kills", stupid child, who gonna save you when level 80 Napalm come? Maybe we should nerf Trinity Blessing too, or nerf Rhino Iron skin, oh hey let's nerf Chaos and Absorb, oh I see Invisibility and Smoke screen op, let's nerf them too. Don't whine about other frames being powerful, whine about your lack of skill. 

[Killerdude8]

You people are just jealous because your favorite frames are not as strong as Nova in term of damage dealing. Nova is fragile in exchange for powerful abilities. Yeah, the slow and x2 damage seems nice but a rocket from Bombard at the feet of a Rhino could kill Nova while leaving Rhino almost unharmed. Everything has its cost, a Rhino can't have massive damage like Nova, a Nova can't have massive defense like Rhino, an Ember can't have healing, a Trinity can't have lots of damage, etc etc. You just mad because at the end, your killing score is less than a Nova. Let me tell you this, your objective is to, well, complete whatever sh*t Lotus tell you to do, not to get the highest score. I can complete a sabotage or spy mission without killing anything. Even if Nova is killing more than you do, he/she is on your team, it's like you are asking to nerf Lina or Lion so they can only have as mush kill as Dazzle and Treant (DotA players will understand). "Hey let's nerf Nova because they are stealing our kills", stupid child, who gonna save you when level 80 Napalm come? Maybe we should nerf Trinity Blessing too, or nerf Rhino Iron skin, oh hey let's nerf Chaos and Absorb, oh I see Invisibility and Smoke screen op, let's nerf them too. Don't whine about other frames being powerful, whine about your lack of skill. 

You lose the Status of "fragility" once you're able to effectively DOUBLE your health and shields.

[-CM-Syein]

You lose the Status of "fragility" once you're able to effectively DOUBLE your health and shields.

that's doesn't explain how Nova drop dead so easily compared to some other frames, especially survival such as wendell mission on Phobos, why don't you drag a Nova in there and solo it to see how long you can last and see how much m-prime actually help you. I don't mind tagging along as well. 

Let me tell you, damage is basically NOTHING if you are dead. It is such case for Nova.

 

oh let me also add: why don't you try a Banshee on wendell as well? She is basically Nova without the slow debuff (excepted she got sonic boom). 

Edited January 27, 2014 by SElZE

[shut]

Here's a justify, strongest ultimate doesn't mean strongest frame. As it been list several times if you read this whole thread comments. 

When you compare abilities, you also compare the frame. Without frame, abilities can't function. 

How do you justify the need of teammates in a frame such as Nova/ Can she solo well like other frames? Survive well like other frames? Is nightmare mode even an option for her? 

She literally has one downside, that being her low base defensive stats. Which hardly even matters if everything around you is either dead or slowed down by 50%.

The 60-second slowdown and double damage are unnecessary. Remove the double damage from all attacks, and double the damage of the blast to compensate. If it's a survivability problem that you have (which, by the way, is intended to be a downside), then decrease the duration of the slowdown to ~5-10 seconds so that it's usable as an escape opportunity but not so much as support. 

 

Once again, she's a glass cannon. Not a support class. Being top-tier in map-clearing is to be expected, but any support beyond simple self-servers is tacked-on, unnecessary, and the reason why these threads exist in the first place.

[Killerdude8]

that's doesn't explain how Nova drop dead so easily compared to some other frames, especially survival such as wendell mission on Phobos, why don't you drag a Nova in there and solo it to see how long you can last and see how much m-prime actually help you. I don't mind tagging along as well.

Let me tell you, damage is basically NOTHING if you are dead. It is such case for Nova.

oh let me also add: why don't you try a Banshee on wendell as well? She is basically Nova without the slow debuff (excepted she got sonic boom).

As the post above me said, Defensive stats cease to be relevant when everything within a massive radius is either Dead or Slowed by 50%. Edited January 27, 2014 by Killerdude8

[shut]

 

that's doesn't explain how Nova drop dead so easily compared to some other frames, especially survival such as wendell mission on Phobos, why don't you drag a Nova in there and solo it to see how long you can last and see how much m-prime actually help you. I don't mind tagging along as well. 

Let me tell you, damage is basically NOTHING if you are dead. It is such case for Nova.

 

oh let me also add: why don't you try a Banshee on wendell as well? She is basically Nova without the slow debuff (excepted she got sonic boom). 

You're judging a Frame's capabilities by their effectiveness on a single gameplay mode without a team.

That's like saying that Frost sucks because his solo Capture abilities are among the worst of frames, or saying that Banshee is top-tier because she can solo Infested Defense without breaking a sweat.

[-CM-Syein]

She literally has one downside, that being her low base defensive stats. Which hardly even matters if everything around you is either dead or slowed down by 50%.

The 60-second slowdown and double damage are unnecessary. Remove the double damage from all attacks, and double the damage of the blast to compensate. If it's a survivability problem that you have (which, by the way, is intended to be a downside), then decrease the duration of the slowdown to ~5-10 seconds so that it's usable as an escape opportunity but not so much as support. 

 

Once again, she's a glass cannon. Not a support class. Being top-tier in map-clearing is to be expected, but any support beyond simple self-servers is tacked-on, unnecessary, and the reason why these threads exist in the first place.

It is not up to someone to tell if something is unnecessary or not, without the slow debuff and double dps, Nova is nothing. 

No, everything around her can't be either dead or slow down, she still die.

I already test this with someone and I won't mind testing this again. you go on Nova while I'm go on any frames except Nova to see who would deal more dps and survive more, in every situation that is. 

 

Damage is not everything, and she need that debuff to at least standing. 

If you said everything around Nova is dead or too slow to hurt her, then you probably haven't play on Nova much in anything above tier 2 survival/def mission. 

 

Another problem with m-prime, it doesn't chain explode on corpus, nor does it chain explode on enemies that doesn't go in hordes. 

Enemies that doesn't go in hordes, yet most damage they deal are slash damage, I could give you such survival mission for you to go test Nova. 

 

Also, abilities determine what class Nova is in, not the other way around. 

Valkyr for example is supposed to be a berserker, but right now I could outright and say that she's a tank/ because her abilities made her into one. 

 

Every frames got one support abilities or another. Frames that doesn't, need a buff. 

Rhino for example, able to tank, to buff damage, to nuke mobs, and crowd control. 

Trinity able to tank, deal very high 1 vs 1 damage, able to heal, and support. 

Frost able to damage, to defend, and some even use him as a tank. 

Nova is the same as them. 

[-CM-Syein]

As the post above me said, Defensive stats cease to be relevant when everything within a massive radius is either Dead or Slowed by 50%.

"everything is either Dead" only apply to low lvl, where any frames could just spam their ult and kill everything. 

Nova's slow debuff is her scale abilities that necessary for her survival to not make her drop dead like flies. Regardless, even with such debuff, she still among the squishiest frame. 

[shut]

It is not up to someone to tell if something is unnecessary or not, without the slow debuff and double dps, Nova is nothing. 

No, everything around her can't be either dead or slow down, she still die.

I already test this with someone and I won't mind testing this again. you go on Nova while I'm go on any frames except Nova to see who would deal more dps and survive more, in every situation that is. 

 

Damage is not everything, and she need that debuff to at least standing. 

If you said everything around Nova is dead or too slow to hurt her, then you probably haven't play on Nova much in anything above tier 2 survival/def mission. 

 

Another problem with m-prime, it doesn't chain explode on corpus, nor does it chain explode on enemies that doesn't go in hordes. 

Enemies that doesn't go in hordes, yet most damage they deal are slash damage, I could give you such survival mission for you to go test Nova. 

 

Also, abilities determine what class Nova is in, not the other way around. 

Valkyr for example is supposed to be a berserker, but right now I could outright and say that she's a tank/ because her abilities made her into one. 

 

Every frames got one support abilities or another. Frames that doesn't, need a buff. 

Rhino for example, able to tank, to buff damage, to nuke mobs, and crowd control. 

Trinity able to tank, deal very high 1 vs 1 damage, able to heal, and support. 

Frost able to damage, to defend, and some even use him as a tank. 

Nova is the same as them. 

 

- Again, survivability is meant to be a downside. Nova's SUPPOSED to be among the most fragile of all the Frames.

If survivability is too big of an issue, as you make it out to be, then there are ways of increasing her survivability without giving her ridiculous supporting abilities.

I gave suggestions for this in my post, which you seem to have ignored.

 

- M Prime not chain-exploding on Corpus and such is not a balancing factor. It's a glitch that should not be happening.

 

- Abilities alone do not determine what a Frame is. If I wanted to create a Support frame but accidentally gave it an ability that blows up the map with 25 energy, then that doesn't change the fact that it's still intended to be a Support frame. All it shows is that things need change.

Saying that current stats and abilities define a Frame's concept means saying no to every change imaginable, such as a buff for Volt and Valkyr. Which, of course, is absurd.

 

- "Buff, everything! No nerfs!" is a very, very bad way to go. The game is easy enough as it is.

If you just buff everything, then the game becomes stupidly easier for everyone, and then enemies have to get a buff. In the end, it's just the same result as nerfing those one or two things that needed nerfing, but a whole lot more work. The only difference is that numbers are bigger.

This damages games. Maplestory follows your "Buff everything, then beef up the enemies!" logic, and suffers because of it.

Edited January 27, 2014 by SortaRandom

[-CM-Syein]

 

 

You're judging a Frame's capabilities by their effectiveness on a single gameplay mode without a team.

That's like saying that Frost sucks because his solo Capture abilities are among the worst of frames, or saying that Banshee is top-tier because she can solo Infested Defense without breaking a sweat.

 

A frame is a frame itself, why does a "team" have anything to do with Nova alone? 

Frost's capture is suck, but his defense abilities made up for it, though there are other way to make his abilities scale more beside globe.

I already said Banshee is like a Rhino without iron skin and stomp, or Nova with m-prime but with no slow debuff. 

Banshee is among my buff list. Her sonar is top tier for sure, but she basically drop dead like flies with her 3rd and 4th skill broken. 

[Killerdude8]

"everything is either Dead" only apply to low lvl, where any frames could just spam their ult and kill everything. 

Nova's slow debuff is her scale abilities that necessary for her survival to not make her drop dead like flies. Regardless, even with such debuff, she still among the squishiest frame. 

What Classifies as a Low level to you?

Because I've seen M Prime wipe out an entire area of Lvl 70's Grineer, Leaving only the heavies, At that point they were STILL being slowed AND taking double damage AND Lost a noticeable amount of health.

 

But still, Totally balanced..

 

Try that trick with any other Damage Frame.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Killerdude8

[shut]

Frost's capture is suck, but his defense abilities made up for it

So you understand what I'm getting at.

Nova sucks at solo survivability. She's a beast at everything else to make up for it.

 

The problem is that she makes up for it far too much. She's an expert in realms that she doesn't need to be an expert in. 

[-CM-Syein]

- Again, survivability is meant to be a downside. Nova's SUPPOSED to be among the most fragile of all the Frames.

If survivability is too big of an issue, as you make it out to be, then there are ways of increasing her survivability without giving her ridiculous supporting abilities.

I gave suggestions for this in my post, which you seem to have ignored.

 

- M Prime not chain-exploding on Corpus and such is not a balancing factor. It's a glitch that should not be happening.

 

- Abilities alone do not determine what a Frame is. If I wanted to create a Support frame but accidentally gave it an ability that blows up the map with 25 energy, then that doesn't change the fact that it's still intended to be a Support frame. All it shows is that things need change.

Saying that current stats and abilities define a Frame's concept means saying no to every change imaginable. Which, of course, is absurd.

 

- "Buff, everything! No nerfs!" is a very, very bad way to go. The game is easy enough as it is.

If you just buff everything, then the game becomes stupidly easier for everyone, and then enemies have to get a buff. In the end, it's just the same result as nerfing those one or two things that needed nerfing, but a whole lot more work.

She already among the most fragile of all frames. 

-How do you determine what class Nova is and how do you determine what is she intend for?, as you know, even trinity as a support frame, she still considered to be dps frame as well, if they build her toward anything but blessing (link and EV). Rhino is good at everything, what does that make him then? Nerf Rhino?

Nyx's absorb actually deal more dps than Nova sometimes at way high end level when she got surrounded, Nyx also had chaos to CC mobs. Nerf Nyx? 

Mag is a specialist in corpus, she got way higher survival than Nova, her 2nd skill able to regain HP, shred enemies' shield, and dealing explosive dps just like m-prime. Nerf mag?

 

This game is easy? Everything revolved mostly around survival/ def, and those things will never considered easy. Don't forget though, we still haven't reach end game content yet. there still tons of mastery lvl to go, 14 is not max. 

 

What is your definition of support abilities? That abilities able to help the team? If that so then every frames had 1 or 2 support abilities. (excepted Ash and Valkyr) <--in which those two are top recent vote for needing a buff. 

[-CM-Syein]

What Classifies as a Low level to you?

Because I've seen M Prime wipe out an entire area of Lvl 70's Grineer, Leaving only the heavies, At that point they were STILL being slowed AND taking double damage AND Lost a noticeable amount of health.

 

But still, Totally balanced..

 

Try that trick with any other Damage Frame.

Go on a mission with me. Or I already told you to try solo Nova on wendell phobos survival, or ceres nuevo survival. You don't need to reach 30min for those.  

[-CM-Syein]

So you understand what I'm getting at.

Nova sucks at solo survivability. She's a beast at everything else to make up for it.

 

The problem is that she makes up for it far too much. She's an expert in realms that she doesn't need to be an expert in. 

You seemed to ignored frost's problem. That's he need a buff. Because his snowglobe is the only thing that scale for him. Frost without snowglobe, what does he have? 

 

Nova is not only suck at solo survivability, do you know why in survival, they preferred a nekros rather than Nova? And Nekros is a weak frame too. 

Why is it in defense, people preferred frost instead of Nova? 

Why not many play Nova for nightmare even though she can play it with "team"? 

Why is it in infest def, vauban always prefered than Nova? 

Is she really good at everything beside solo? really? 

[shut]

She already among the most fragile of all frames. 

I know. And she's supposed to be.

I'm not saying that they need to nerf her survivability, you know.

 

 

-How do you determine what class Nova is and how do you determine what is she intend for?, as you know, even trinity as a support frame, she still considered to be dps frame as well, if they build her toward anything but blessing (link and EV). Rhino is good at everything, what does that make him then? Nerf Rhino?

Nyx's absorb actually deal more dps than Nova sometimes at way high end level when she got surrounded, Nyx also had chaos to CC mobs. Nerf Nyx? 

Mag is a specialist in corpus, she got way higher survival than Nova, her 2nd skill able to regain HP, shred enemies' shield, and dealing explosive dps just like m-prime. Nerf mag?

 

Those, my friend, are examples of Frames having slight flexibility outside the general focus of their concepts.

- Trinity is still a support frame no matter how you build her. Offensive support is still support.

- Rhino's nerfing is debatable. Personally, I'm against it, since his abilities are nowhere near as gamebreaking as Nova's (under most builds, anyways).

- DPS implies that Nyx kills things faster. That's not the case. Also, having crowd control doesn't necessitate a nerf.

- Mag's 2nd ability doesn't recover HP.

 

 

Everything revolved mostly around survival/ def

 

No. No, it is not.

High-level survival and defense is challenging because enemies scale to levels beyond what the devs ever intended for them to scale to. There's more to the game than just T3 Wave 100 Defense and Survival, you know. Veteran players only stick around here so often because it's the only thing that provides a challenge.

 

 

What is your definition of support abilities? That abilities able to help the team? If that so then every frames had 1 or 2 support abilities. (excepted Ash and Valkyr) <--in which those two are top recent vote for needing a buff. 

 

Support abilities = abilities that help the team, yeah.

Nova is top-tier in mobility, crowd control, burst damage, and map-clearing, with one weakness to show for it. Do you really think that she needs to be an expert in support on top of that?