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Sh1n3y

'best' To 'worst' Frames Poll

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Poll Complete!
This is in response to and summarizing "Who Is The New Useless Frame?". Here is the post: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/166579-who-is-the-new-useless-frame/

The poll shown there is helpful to show who a majority of people feel is the most 'useless' frame. Although useless is a bit heavy a term in my opinion as they all have uses. Some just have more uses than others. Anyhow... this post is not about my opinions. It's a summary of all the opinions of the people who posted on that topic. The poll shown there did not focus on a tiered system of effectiveness for each frame, and so I wanted to summarize and combine the opinions of all the people that posted to show what people think is the highest ranked frame to lowest ranked frame.

What this poll was mainly based around:
   1. How useful are the abilities of the frame at high level?
   2. How survivable are the frames at high level?
   3. Since you need a team for high level stuff (more waves, more time), who do you want on your team?

What this poll does not do:
   1. Say who is useless or pointless
   2. Determine who is best in each scenario/against each faction/solo/etc. These are valid ways to rank them, but not what is being done here.
   3. Tell everyone who to play and who not to play. They ALL have their place and can be very fun no matter where they are on the list!

The final list based on the above criteria in order from highest to lowest. This is NOT my opinion, but the opinion of ALL the people who posted in the above mentioned post (for details on how I got this, see bottom of post):
Tier 1:
   - Nova
   - Trinity
Tier 2:
   - Rhino
   - Nyx
   - Vauban
Tier 3:
   - Loki
   - Frost
Tier 4:
   - Mag
   - Nekros
   - Oberon
   - Volt
   - Excalibur
   - Banshee
   - Ember
   - Saryn
Tier 5:
   - Ash
   - Valkyr

Please take this with a grain of salt and many caveats:
   1. There are no useless frames. In fact many people enjoyed playing some of the frames they themselves felt were the least helpful in higher level missions. I use the word 'Useless' and 'God' to stay consistent with previous postings. Also the 'Low' Category is probably more aptly named the 'Mid' category and the 'Mid' should be named 'Mid-High'.
   2. A persons preferred play-style effects how they will rank the frames.
   3. Some frames are better at specific things (against certain factions or in certain missions). Remember what this tiered system has aimed at determining (overall effectiveness at high level, not situational at low to mid level).
   4. It may be better when thinking about who needs a buff or nerf to think about the specific abilities.
   5. I did take a statistics class in college, but by no means did I use the best method to determining this. Someone could probably do better. I just used a method I felt was most fair.

There were some serious varied opinions on some frames, and remember that this poll is an average of ALL of your opinions. These frames stood out from the rest:
Most Contested/Debated Frames:
   1. Loki
   2. Banshee
   3. Valkyr
Second Most Contested/Debated Frames
   1. Nekros
   2. Oberon
   3. Excalibur
Least Contested/Debated Frames:
   1. Nyx
   2. Volt

Why even have a tiered list?
   1. Because people always like to rank. It's human nature.
   2. Possibly helpful to new players to help them know who to aim for if they want to be most helpful in higher levels.
   3. Show who possibly needs a bit of work for their abilities

This ranking of the frames was from everyone who posted on the forum post linked above. For those of you who want to know the details of how I came to this see below.

How were the frames ranked into these Tiers?
   1. I made a numbered system to give to each tier. For example, 'god' tier was given a value of 6, high tier 4, mid tier
   3. low tier 2, and 'useless' tier 0. These numbers were applied if someone ranked ALL the frames into five different tiers. If they were ranked into four, three, or even only two tiers, then I changed the numbers accordingly. See spoiler 1 for details. The only way these numbers were applied to a frame were if ALL the frames were ranked by that player.
*Sample size of people who ranked ALL the frames = 52*
   2. I created a letter system for people that only commented on a few frames. God tier (G), High tier (H), Mid tier (M), Low tier (L), Useless Tier (U). This part was somewhat subjective as most people who commented this way would only say something like, "Banshee shouldn't be low tier!" or "Loki's way better than Ash". In effect the lettered portion of the statistics didn't get the weight in determining the rankings as much as the numbered portion, but it still had a say.
*Sample size of people who only commented on a few frames = see spoiler 3 below (varies by frame)*
   3. Then I read through the entire post 'Who Is The New Useless Frame' (stopping at post #391) and recorded my letters and numbers for each frame. If people made multiple ranked tiers, I only used the one that I felt fit the criteria I was using the most. If people argued back and forth about frames, I tried to only record for them once.
   4. I added up the numbers and then listed the frames from highest number (best) to lowest number (worst).
   5. I calculated the difference between each frames number to find the largest gaps. This determined where the natural breaks were. These became the separations between tiers. For this list see spoiler 2.
   6. I took that list in order from highest ranked to lowest ranked frame and then added up how many letters of each type were given to each frame (i.e. how many high ranks, low ranks, etc.) For this list see spoiler 3.
   7. This is where a little subtle tweaking happened as I slightly adjusted the previous tiered list to accept the statistics/patterns this list was showing. For more details and reasoning see explanation on spoiler 2.
   8. So, spoiler 2 plus spoiler 3 with heavy emphasis on spoiler 2 gave me the final tiered list you see above. If you want to ignore any subjective reasoning I did, spoiler 2 (the data from only people who ranked all the frames) is almost the same anyhow.

Spoiler 1:

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Spoiler 2:

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Spoiler 3:

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This is very comprehensive....

 

many of the frames in lower tiers could be fixed by DE if they were just given massive damage boosts. For example, Frost's abilities are cool looking but weak. Buff their damage, give freeze longer duration and armor debuff. Ice wave higher damage. Avalanche higher damage/longer freeze duration

 

Surely that doesn't take months and months of debating saying you are working on frame balance to figure out, yes?

 

Also, while i highly regard your precision in data collection; Valkyr while considered by some weak, does have spam-capable invincibility and the 2nd best mobility skill in the game. Surely that at least makes her low tier.

 

Personally, If I really need to get things done, I go with either Nova, Rhino or Nyx. Trinity I just don't like, but her abilities are god-tier for sure. 

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Whoever put Ash on the useless list need to take a knife to the private area.

 

Many times.

why? i have played ash and he is kinda boring and he seams kinda useless and the amount of ash's i see in game are 0 to none

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Ignore the words 'High', 'Low', 'God' etc. I think most of the frames are pretty great. However, this is not my opinion. The tiers are a result of where the natural breaks occurred between the frames based on the numbers/statistics. The largest gaps were at those places, so that's where the tiers were placed.

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Tier 1 needs to include Frost and Vauban. I hoof-heatedly disagree with your top rank.

 

I can understand Frost, but why Vauban? Vauban is a one faction wonder, amazing against infested meh against the other two main factions.

 

My gripe with this is that Loki was put into mid tier despite being able to turn any mission into a pseudo-infested mission (and he excels against the infested). Loki should be high-tier or above.

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TLDR; Your list is based on the usual obsession with DPS and Durability.

 

The rankings seem to go like this:

 

DPS

Invulnerability

CC

Support

"Other" DPS

Ash.

 

Couple things:

 

1. Nova is the "best frame" only in lower levels, because she presses a button and everything dies. Higher levels, her damage doesn't scale and she gets taken apart. It's nice when she primes guys and YOU kill them....but her usefulness goes down dramatically. Wormhole is just the icing on the cake.

 

2. If Trinity/Rhino are in your tops because they can be effectively invulnerable, then Valkyr deserves to be up there. She may be handicapped in damage because of how Hysteria works, but she's very durable if you know what you're doing and what not to do. Also, Iron Skin is Paper Skin at Lvl 30+.

 

3. CC in the middle, which is about your only admission to context beyond "can't be killed" and "kills real gud." Again, this reflects the community mentality. CC makes people's lives easier at the levels where you're no longer OP. So people give CC and the Warframes that do it their due, if only grudgingly.

 

4. Context. Some of these Warframes are useful in certain applications. I won't lie that some like Nekros are one trick ponies and their other abilities don't really bring much to the table. But Ash, useless? How about a 3-minute T3 Void Capture with almost zero combat? How about endless Bladestorms? There are things you can do with the frames that you deem "useless" to "almost useless" that are both fun and useful, if you're not flat out stating that DPS, Durability and CC are the only things worth measuring.

 

I appreciate this is your aggregate, and it basically reflects the community mentality: if it doesn't nuke everything on the screen in Lvl 10 Endless Defense or Survival, it's S#&$. If it doesn't have an ability that allows it to freely laugh off damage, it's S#&$.

 

If I'm honest, yeah, it's easy to overvalue DPS and Durability because 90% of WF is mindless lower-level farming and patting yourself on the back for how your OP weapons and abilities flatten easy enemies. But it misses the bigger picture, as usual. It'd be nice if WF gave us more reasons to care about things like support, tricked out and special use builds. But it doesn't. So it's up to players to find the value until the game catches up.

 

I think the real problem is that WF is pretty much all about the individual's power trip. Which is why people hate Nova so much, it makes their power trip less awesome. So any WF that can't compete is "crap" and "useless." CC only gets its mention because people are willing to admit it helps. But it doesn't play to the ego like "Press 4 to win." And neither does "Makes my teammates' lives easier" or "Can get through levels quickly and quietly."

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TLDR; Your list is based on the usual obsession with DPS and Durability.

 

The rankings seem to go like this:

 

DPS

Invulnerability

CC

Support

"Other" DPS

Ash.

 

Couple things:

 

1. Nova is the "best frame" only in lower levels, because she presses a button and everything dies. Higher levels, her damage doesn't scale and she gets taken apart. It's nice when she primes guys and YOU kill them....but her usefulness goes down dramatically. Wormhole is just the icing on the cake.

 

2. If Trinity/Rhino are in your tops because they can be effectively invulnerable, then Valkyr deserves to be up there. She may be handicapped in damage because of how Hysteria works, but she's very durable if you know what you're doing and what not to do. Also, Iron Skin is Paper Skin at Lvl 30+.

 

3. CC in the middle, which is about your only admission to context beyond "can't be killed" and "kills real gud." Again, this reflects the community mentality. CC makes people's lives easier at the levels where you're no longer OP. So people give CC and the Warframes that do it their due, if only grudgingly.

 

4. Context. Some of these Warframes are useful in certain applications. I won't lie that some like Nekros are one trick ponies and their other abilities don't really bring much to the table. But Ash, useless? How about a 3-minute T3 Void Capture with almost zero combat? How about endless Bladestorms? There are things you can do with the frames that you deem "useless" to "almost useless" that are both fun and useful, if you're not flat out stating that DPS, Durability and CC are the only things worth measuring.

 

I appreciate this is your aggregate, and it basically reflects the community mentality: if it doesn't nuke everything on the screen in Lvl 10 Endless Defense or Survival, it's S#&$. If it doesn't have an ability that allows it to freely laugh off damage, it's S#&$.

 

If I'm honest, yeah, it's easy to overvalue DPS and Durability because 90% of WF is mindless lower-level farming and patting yourself on the back for how your OP weapons and abilities flatten easy enemies. But it misses the bigger picture, as usual. It'd be nice if WF gave us more reasons to care about things like support, tricked out and special use builds. But it doesn't. So it's up to players to find the value until the game catches up.

 

I think the real problem is that WF is pretty much all about the individual's power trip. Which is why people hate Nova so much, it makes their power trip less awesome. So any WF that can't compete is "crap" and "useless." CC only gets its mention because people are willing to admit it helps. But it doesn't play to the ego like "Press 4 to win." And neither does "Makes my teammates' lives easier" or "Can get through levels quickly and quietly."

 

Personally, I disagree with damage even being a consideration for Warframe tiers unless that damage scales. The sad thing is that Ash doesn't have a whole lot going for him when you ignore damage. 

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This is the third thread about "tiers" I've seen in this forum in the past two weeks.

 

The first one was locked for incessant flaming, the second is still ongoing.

 

Do we really need another?

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TLDR; Your list is based on the usual obsession with DPS and Durability.

 

The rankings seem to go like this:

 

DPS

Invulnerability

CC

Support

"Other" DPS

Ash.

 

Couple things:

 

1. Nova is the "best frame" only in lower levels, because she presses a button and everything dies. Higher levels, her damage doesn't scale and she gets taken apart. It's nice when she primes guys and YOU kill them....but her usefulness goes down dramatically. Wormhole is just the icing on the cake.

 

2. If Trinity/Rhino are in your tops because they can be effectively invulnerable, then Valkyr deserves to be up there. She may be handicapped in damage because of how Hysteria works, but she's very durable if you know what you're doing and what not to do. Also, Iron Skin is Paper Skin at Lvl 30+.

 

3. CC in the middle, which is about your only admission to context beyond "can't be killed" and "kills real gud." Again, this reflects the community mentality. CC makes people's lives easier at the levels where you're no longer OP. So people give CC and the Warframes that do it their due, if only grudgingly.

 

4. Context. Some of these Warframes are useful in certain applications. I won't lie that some like Nekros are one trick ponies and their other abilities don't really bring much to the table. But Ash, useless? How about a 3-minute T3 Void Capture with almost zero combat? How about endless Bladestorms? There are things you can do with the frames that you deem "useless" to "almost useless" that are both fun and useful, if you're not flat out stating that DPS, Durability and CC are the only things worth measuring.

 

I appreciate this is your aggregate, and it basically reflects the community mentality: if it doesn't nuke everything on the screen in Lvl 10 Endless Defense or Survival, it's S#&$. If it doesn't have an ability that allows it to freely laugh off damage, it's S#&$.

 

If I'm honest, yeah, it's easy to overvalue DPS and Durability because 90% of WF is mindless lower-level farming and patting yourself on the back for how your OP weapons and abilities flatten easy enemies. But it misses the bigger picture, as usual. It'd be nice if WF gave us more reasons to care about things like support, tricked out and special use builds. But it doesn't. So it's up to players to find the value until the game catches up.

 

I think the real problem is that WF is pretty much all about the individual's power trip. Which is why people hate Nova so much, it makes their power trip less awesome. So any WF that can't compete is "crap" and "useless." CC only gets its mention because people are willing to admit it helps. But it doesn't play to the ego like "Press 4 to win." And neither does "Makes my teammates' lives easier" or "Can get through levels quickly and quietly."

1. You forgot that priming enemies slow them and makes them take double damage. That with the ridiculous range is why most people say she is necessary for super high level missions. Not just low levels.

 

2. Rhino has a large AOE that leave enemies helpless for a time and a team buff that increases all damage from him and the team. Valkyr has no such thing for higher levels. She has a short range slow that does not include enemies that enter while it is active and the benefits from that ability are negligible. Her ult will eventually leave her giving no contribution to the team except revives, which so many other frames can achieve with the ability to use weapons that you equipped for the mission.

 

3. From this list (God to mid tier): Nova, Rhino, Nyx, Vauban, and Loki give substantial CC. It is why they are generally put in those places in tier lists since CC scales infinitely. By substantial, I mean they give the best CC among all of the frames.

 

4. The context that these lists are made with (the comprehensive and analytical ones) are when damage from abilities are useless. Overall I notice that these lists prize frames that help the team as a whole, rather then simple nukes. This would go a long way in explaining why Ash and Valkyr are always at the bottom of these tier lists.

 

It has been said over and over again that CC is king. The only exceptions are Trinity, who provides indefinite invulnerability, and Frost who denies ranged damage against a stationary position (and it has CC if enemies enter the protected zone).

 

Those in low tier are either pure damage or have utilities or CC that are beaten by frames that are mid and up.

 

To sum it up: CC, durability, utility, then DPS are what is prized in that order. DPS being the dead last consideration and if it were not for the existence of Blessing, then utility would be right next to CC at the very top of the most prized capabilities a warframe can bring to its team.

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IMO yes, there are no "useless" frames. Even if it is to stay consistent with previous posts, by now all frames are pretty solid, unlike before.

 

For the most part, I would agree with this tier list. In the end, what matters most is a frame's ability to scale to essentially all factions and levels, which is (mostly) reflected in this list.

 

Some comments:

* Nova's MPrime is god-tier simply in its ability to deal double damage AND slow enemies in a very wide radius. 

* I would argue that Mag be pushed up to Mid-tier (Shield Polarize is simply amazing). 

* I've built Trinity, but she's still sitting in the oven (along with Loki and Oberon) because of a lack of slots, but...I would say that she, along with Nova, may need a slight nerf. Though the last time Vauban was god-tier, he actually did get a nerf, so fingers crossed that they don't actually get nerfed. :X

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This is the third thread about "tiers" I've seen in this forum in the past two weeks.

 

The first one was locked for incessant flaming, the second is still ongoing.

 

Do we really need another?

 

I understand your sentiment. This was somewhat in hopes of summarizing the previous thread, not necessarily starting more debates. 

 

Some comments:

* Nova's MPrime is god-tier simply in its ability to deal double damage AND slow enemies in a very wide radius. 

* I would argue that Mag be pushed up to Mid-tier (Shield Polarize is simply amazing). 

* I've built Trinity, but she's still sitting in the oven (along with Loki and Oberon) because of a lack of slots, but...I would say that she, along with Nova, may need a slight nerf. Though the last time Vauban was god-tier, he actually did get a nerf, so fingers crossed that they don't actually get nerfed. :X

 

Yes. Mag was almost moved up a tier. I explain why I didn't in spoiler 2. 

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Removed the tier names (God, Low, Useless, etc) from the ranking leaving just numbered tiers. I don't want people to associate these frames with being in a 'Low' category. I think most of the frames in Tier 4 (Low) are just fine. It's just the way the numbers played guys.

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"It may be better when thinking about who needs a buff or nerf to think about the specific abilities." 

 

Now even the game market also have tier list, why is this frame sell for 300 plat while the other sell for only 75 plat. 

How is Nekros blueprint went for 100k credits while other is only around 35k. 

 

But seriously? Rhino tier 2 for an all rounder/ CC/ good at everything while having 2 scale power. 

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I'll be honest here. There are only a few people (10-15?) who can actually comment on how useful a frame can be vs each faction in this game per 'end game' type. There are some that can theory frames, but only a few who have actually done them. This poll is going to be nothing more but a speculative tier list that does not actually reflect 'end game' status of frames.

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I'll be honest here. There are only a few people (10-15?) who can actually comment on how useful a frame can be vs each faction in this game per 'end game' type. There are some that can theory frames, but only a few who have actually done them. This poll is going to be nothing more but a speculative tier list that does not actually reflect 'end game' status of frames.

 

nuff said right there.

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"It may be better when thinking about who needs a buff or nerf to think about the specific abilities." 
 
Now even the game market also have tier list, why is this frame sell for 300 plat while the other sell for only 75 plat. 
How is Nekros blueprint went for 100k credits while other is only around 35k. 
 
But seriously? Rhino tier 2 for an all rounder/ CC/ good at everything while having 2 scale power. 

 

Loki was put in tier 3 and he has four skills that scale/don't need to scale. I guess a good number of people (those who voted for him to be in anything lower than T2) just don't know how to use a frame that isn't 'push 4(3 in Nyx's case) to win'.

 

I'll be honest here. There are only a few people (10-15?) who can actually comment on how useful a frame can be vs each faction in this game per 'end game' type. There are some that can theory frames, but only a few who have actually done them. This poll is going to be nothing more but a speculative tier list that does not actually reflect 'end game' status of frames.

 

A lot of people have all the frames, myself included.

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Loki was put in tier 3 and he has four skills that scale/don't need to scale. I guess a good number of people (those who voted for him to be in anything lower than T2) just don't know how to use a frame that isn't 'push 4(3 in Nyx's case) to win'.

 

 

A lot of people have all the frames, myself included.

 

Having all the frames and testing them to their full limits by going to 2+hr survivals or 200 wave defenses is completely different.

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Rhino is actually one of the most useful warframes in endgame due to Roar and Stomp (Iron Skin is a nice bonus if Trinity is not here or sleeping), and should be in the highest tier IMO. Roar is still a nice +50% damage bonus (can be doubled with maximum power strenght), Stomp is a massive CC ability. Rhino himself is an very durable frame.

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u.u we have too many of these posts already/ Honestly, it good and all that you said you wanted to re-make the thread by cleaning it up, but what wrong with the old thread. 

 

The list tier seemed inaccurate for me. You based the tier on people's opinions on thread, how many people actually look at forum feedback? And how many actually biased. 

Also Rhino is everybody favorite, or most. Ofc there's gonna be some biased. 

 

There is no such thing as "best" and "worst", it all depend on different situations and different factions, to me, loki is the best, but to other, he is not so...? 

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