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Nova Needs Nerfing.


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and this is directly at the op. 

 

Did you notice when someone complained about Nova, they only say things about her damage instead of her other areas? 

Well, its a good thing you are not talking about me. Cause if you were, you would have a valid point, but you are not.

 

 

Also, you downplay her potential damage a lot. With the weapons I have now, I could easily get 100k damage out of her reliably every time. Imagine those people who are actually minmaxed, they could easily squeeze millions of damage out, and this isn't even an exageration.

 

However, I know what point you are going to try to get to.

 

"But she sux in surv. and def. why dun you listen to me wawawa" "difert tipes of oh pee"

 

You don't play Nova right? if you did , you would know she is getting stealth nerf , but "Nerf Cryes" Does not play the class that he want to nerf

I have had a nova. I am not the OP, but I know she hasn't been stealth nerfed, its just that blast isn't as good against shields after a 2.0 patch. Nothing else has changed, and the inefficiency didn't change much in the grand scheme of things.

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Nova is not OP. The only thing I see people complain about is that her mp steals kills but any other frame can do the same thing. Ember, Rhino, Saryn etc. The thing with Nova is that her abilities are always usefull. Antimatter drop collects all damage and can do tons of damage. MP It does chain damage, double damage plus a slow buff. On lower leveled enemies it can easely whipe out a room. With high levels she can't but her debuffs are still extremely usefull. Thats why a lot of people resort to Nova. Her powers are viable for endgame. Thats how its supposed to be. There's nothing wrong with Nova. Her powers are balanced and perfect, fitting for the role of a damage frame. If you compare her to other frames yes she is op. Thats because other frames abilities aren't viable for endgame, so they suck with comparison. Thats why the solution is to buff other frames and make their abilities more viable to endgame. Nerfing Nova isn't going to help anyone but the butthurt crying babies that like to boost their ego's that care about nothing else but gaining as many kills as possible.

Edited by kubbi
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I have had a nova. I am not the OP, but I know she hasn't been stealth nerfed, its just that blast isn't as good against shields after a 2.0 patch. Nothing else has changed, and the inefficiency didn't change much in the grand scheme of things.

Its because you probably don't play Nova like i used to do Pre 2.0 to 

Even her def was nerfed , Once upon(yea like in movies) I used to have Nova go in middle of middle ennemies  getting almost no damage , and out of nowhere i was getting more damage after some patch , like its was not enought the explosion started to not work well (explosion chaining) , 

And before nerf everything in the explosion take same damage , so if the first guy you hit take 11k damage the last one getting the same damage , but now the more far they are less damage they are getting so basicly breaking your explosion chaining , not like the TP was not nerfed right?the hight way in Xini def , first time you wasnt able to go theire , then adding some path to go in top area...

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Well, its a good thing you are not talking about me. Cause if you were, you would have a valid point, but you are not.

 

 

 

I said my previous statement is made directly at the op. 

 

And the second statement that you replied to are directly made at "everyone" who only compare Nova's dps but ignore her other areas, and that's including you. 

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Some facts I'd just like to throw out without getting in to any arguments on M prime. 
Limitations that exist or have been added stealthily, 
Explosions do not go through walls/some obstructions. A line of sight from exploder to explodee does not necessarily guarantee the chain. Hard to tell what does and doesn't count as an obstruction or how much obstruction counts as being obstructed, explosions happen to fast. -.- 
Everything deals reduced damage to Corpus shield if aiming at the head, M prime appears to occasionally target heads(Bug)
Two enemies taking cover side by side when one explodes will consider the other covered from damage even if not(Might also be a bug but nothing else works like this so I can't test it on them too.)

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you my friend are an idiot and is wasting your time nova is fine as she is, no nerfing is required for any of the warframes tweaks maybe but no nerfing tho there is pvp that isnt the focus of this game n there nerfing a warframe isnt necessary the time it is is if that move cause a problem with the game it self. If you or anybody else think a warframe is too powerful then either one stop using them or two take off the power move you think is to powerful and put a useless mod there that way u can have your so called challenge...its whiners like you that ruin the game for everyone at somepoint

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And the second statement that you replied to are directly made at "everyone" who only compare Nova's dps but ignore her other areas, and that's including you. 

Except I am not. 

 

Some facts I'd just like to throw out without getting in to any arguments on M prime. 

Limitations that exist or have been added stealthily, 

Explosions do not go through walls/some obstructions. A line of sight from exploder to explodee does not necessarily guarantee the chain. Hard to tell what does and doesn't count as an obstruction or how much obstruction counts as being obstructed, explosions happen to fast. -.- 

Everything deals reduced damage to Corpus shield if aiming at the head, M prime appears to occasionally target heads(Bug)

Two enemies taking cover side by side when one explodes will consider the other covered from damage even if not(Might also be a bug but nothing else works like this so I can't test it on them too.)

That explains a lot.

Also, if any line of sight is present between enemies, no matter how small it will always deal damage. Also, I believe your last one doesn't exist, because the penta (which has the same damage mechanics) doesn't suffer from that.

 

you my friend are an idiot and is wasting your time nova is fine as she is, no nerfing is required for any of the warframes tweaks maybe but no nerfing tho there is pvp that isnt the focus of this game n there nerfing a warframe isnt necessary the time it is is if that move cause a problem with the game it self. If you or anybody else think a warframe is too powerful then either one stop using them or two take off the power move you think is to powerful and put a useless mod there that way u can have your so called challenge...its whiners like you that ruin the game for everyone at somepoint

Ah, a person who doesn't understand balance and game design. Here is an example of why we shouldn't let some people give feedback!

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These threads about Novca started by different people (again and again and again) are because a lot of people think there is something wrong with Nova and they want something done about it.

You probably don't understand the obsession, because Nova is your most used warframe (all the others you have used average around 6%, with the exception of Valkyr 25%). It looks like you used most of the others enough to rank em and mainly stick to Nova. Think hard about why that is!

 

I played intensively my Valkyr and I love this frame that's strictly the opposite of the Nova : only defensive mainly, hard to get a lot of kill, utility for the group : raise fallen members. Nova was a refreshing time after spent so much time under hysteria chasing chaotickly the grineer one after one....

 

With the Nova in my little clan we can manage higher content where I took the role of the artillery, and like Seize said :

"She is not a "I can do everything" frame like Rhino. 

She don't have the "let make everyone immortal" like Trinity, nor "run straight to objective" like loki and stay 99% invisible. 

She can't tank, can't solo, can't def alone, what left? Damage."

 

Nova is a very good support but that's all, a support.

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Gaminus is kind of right when it come to Nova being a little bit of a hog when it comes to kills. Its like having a big sister that is better at everything than you.

 

My self esteem goes down every time I see that a Nova did 98% of the damage. Mind you I normally play Ash and he was intended for solo play (blade storm is slow for that reason most likely) so that isn't a fair judgement on my part, but I feel if they made it more balanced like the more enemies around the more that damage is spread out (like -x% damage per enemy in its reach).

 

Or just plain old making her other abilities more effective like antimatter drop giving a slow down and increased damage buff in an increased range of its actual blast radius. Her first ability just plain old needs more damage (it name escapes me).

 

Besides she is really defenseless in the shield department making her really squishy. If she could not deal most of the damage she does now then she would get destroyed no matter what. Maybe a bit more shields, then you may Nerf her slightly.

 

Here she is balanced in my opinion, and a you have couple ways to do it. However I understand if you still disagree because not every frame can be perfectly balanced. Besides I don't even have Nova.

 

But I think this is a fair way to balance her out more. I personally hate the push four to win mechanic anyway. At least put a button event DE! XD

 

Btw lets not start talking about Ash, save it for another thread, deal? :D

 

If you play ash you must get out dpsed alot.  Nerf all the aoe frames i guess.

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Nova is not OP. The only thing I see people complain about is that her mp steals kills but any other frame can do the same thing. Ember, Rhino, Saryn etc. The thing with Nova is that her abilities are always usefull. Antimatter drop collects all damage and can do tons of damage.

1st you state other frames can do the same thing as Nova so you mentioned Rhino:

Lets just compare molecular prime with Rhino Stomp and talk about Novas energy pool. You say it's only 75 unbuffed, but that translates into +150 buffed when max flow is used giving Nova a Total of 450 energy. Rhino has a total of 300 energy with max flow. Here Nova gets an extra 150 energy, thats a hell of a lot, in fact 50% more.

Now lets compare differences in the powers. Rhino Stomp vs Molecular Prime

Not re-castable while active vs Cast cast while previous one is active

No enemy debuff vs 200% extra damage to enemies from all sources

Damage 800 (maxed) vs Damage 1600 (maxed) due to double damage debuff affecting weapons and WF powers, also damage can chain

8 seconds enemies suspended in air, no enemy fire when suspended vs 50% slow and reduction in enemy fire rate for 60s

Can't be cast while jumping, climbing or fron flip vs can be cast at any time

Cast time significantly slower than MP vs Cast time Significantly faster than Rhino Stomp

from the facts above, it's all in the Wiki.....Molecular prime significantly outclasses Rhino Stomp in every way. I chose Rhino because that's the example you used, however this can be done for all the damage warframes and Nova will come out like a shining star.

 

The thing with Nova is that her abilities are always usefull. Antimatter drop collects all damage and can do tons of damage. MP It does chain damage, double damage plus a slow buff. On lower leveled enemies it can easely whipe out a room. With high levels she can't but her debuffs are still extremely usefull. Thats why a lot of people resort to Nova. Her powers are viable for endgame. Thats how its supposed to be. There's nothing wrong with Nova. Her powers are balanced and perfect, fitting for the role of a damage frame. If you compare her to other frames yes she is op. Thats because other frames abilities aren't viable for endgame, so they suck with comparison.

Well I don't really know what endgame is, I don't believe it's defined and the enemies keep scaling. However, if other other frames suck in comparison....surely Nova is the one that's overpowered compared to other frames. When something is overpowered, it does mean compared to the majority!

On lower levels you also agree that MP can clear out a room....again you haven't defined lower levels, but I have seen MP clearing rooms at 20m plus on survival and wave 20+ in defense (on ERIS/PLUTO). The problem with this is it's "unfun" for others whilst they watch the Nova clear the room. I don't think the developers intended the game to be; 3 people watching a Nova wormhole round the room spamming prime every few seconds for 20m and everything exploding with the few shots they need to fire.

 

Thats why the solution is to buff other frames and make their abilities more viable to endgame. Nerfing Nova isn't going to help anyone but the butthurt crying babies that like to boost their ego's that care about nothing else but gaining as many kills as possible.

As usual you resort to insults again rather than facts. People are not complaining gaining kills they are complaining about....and try to read this carefully:

1. It's not fun playing with a Nova....I know hard for you to believe, but some of us don't like feeling like a 3rd wheel for 20m or more. People play to kill stuff, not to watch another frame do it all!

2. Nova is so OP, that the abilities coupled with a Movement speed second only to frames like Loki, can allow Nova to move way ahead priming and killing everything before you get there. This massively affects XP for weapon/Frame ranking/levelling.

3. Even when nova is in same room, if you are ranking a Warframe+Weapon, you get half the XP you would have got if you had killed it yourself. Other frames abilities do the same thing when killing enemies, but none can light up the whole room like Nova and simply suck the XP away because you don't get a chance to kill them.

4. The triple effect nature of her ulti, that is not affected at all by corrupted mods, has a very large energy pool, fast casting at any time (even in air) and requires no cool down at all, can simply be cast and cast and cast. Wormhole allows all enemies on a map to be lit up with ease.....because it lasts 60s (no other ulti lasts that long).

I have mentioned a perfectly reasonable re-balance to Nova before, but even that small re-balance you seem to find totally unacceptable!?

I do realise you would like this thread to degenerate into people trading insults and then get it locked down, so the problem goes away. Well even if you all succeed, another thread about Nova will simply start up, because it seems enough people feel strongly enough that there is always someone starting a new thread.

Edited by DaveC
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I think Nova is balanced, you know why? Because of her shield and health stats, if she doesn't play careful, she will die in higher difficult levels. Its fine the way it is. If Nova gets nerfed, it will be bad = low health/shield and weaker "clear room" ability? Nova already survived a Super Nova explosion, don't make her die in black hole >_>

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....  M.P.   don't care...  don't need nerfed..  you are priming people into being bombs...  BOMBS...   if something survives a BOMB something is wrong....

normal people have been known to survive bombs at practically point blank range. An infamous example being the failed Operation Valkyrie. 

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I think the solution is obvious:

 

Make other frames useful instead of nerfing Nova.

 

Banshee is awful in every regard apart from Sonar.

Trinity's only use is for making sure you aren't instagibbed on T3 Defense.

Ember is bad because 3/4 of her abilities do nothing but pure damage. Accelerant would be better if it had a good range.

Nekros is only useful for drop farming because of Desecrate. Shadows of the Dead is poor because of the way that enemy damage is balanced to the player's health. That is to say, enemies do low damage in comparison to their own health, but that is perceived as high because as players, we do high damage yet have comparatively low health (this is precisely one of the reasons that PvP is awful).

Volt is mediocre.

Ash is useless against mid-high level enemies. His ult is awful, his invisibility is objectively inferior to Loki's. Teleport requires LoS on an enemy which hinders it's usefulness. His shuriken falls off and becomes useless eventually like all pure damage abilities.

Excalibur is awful.

Saryn is awful. She was useful before Damage 2.0 because Venom and MIasma weren't affected by resistances. But eventually she fell off because pure damage skills are awful without some form of scaling.

Valkyr is just absolutely horrible in every aspect and needs a complete redesign.

Oberon's only good ability is Rejuvenation. Everything else is awful thanks to being pure damage abilities.

Vauban's Vortex and Bastille are his two good abilities. Tesla is awful because it is a pure damage ability and Bounce is too unreliable.

 

Rhino is the only other frame that is consistently useful at all stages in the game, like Nova. As well as having all four of his abilities be useful as well.

 

Mag is a special case. She is useful, but ONLY against Corpus. Wanna know why? Because Shield Polarize's damage scales with the enemies's shield strength, and every corpus enemy uses Shields.

Bullet Attractor diverts enemy fire, which makes it very useful.
Pull is decent CC.

Crush is okay as CC, but the pure damage aspects fall off eventually, and Pull is just more efficient to use.

 

 

Let's take a look at why Nova is so good.

1. Null Star

While Null Star is pretty weak compared to other abilities, it is still faintly useful because it is cheap to cast, and it staggers targets on hit. This stagger means that it can still continue to contribute after the damage falls off thanks to a lack of scaling.

 

2. Antimatter Drop

Antimatter Drop is the strongest attack in the game available to the player. Despite being a pure-damage ability, because it does such a high volume of damage, and scales somewhat according to the user's weapon strength.

 

3. Wormhole

Arguably the best Mobility Skill next to Loki's Decoy/Switch Teleport combo. Wormhole's only two weaknesses are that it is expensive to cast, and relatively tricky to aim because of random pieces of geometry getting in the way.

 

4. Molecular Prime

Molecular Prime's damage aspect may fall off eventually. But the real reason people pack it is because it causes enemies to take double damage AND slows their movement. This kind of debuff is invaluable against all types of enemy.

At lower levels, the damage aspect is good because it is wide-spread and does okay damage (although damage 2.0 neutered it somewhat in that regard).

Edited by Duralumin
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Except I am not. 

 

That explains a lot.

Also, if any line of sight is present between enemies, no matter how small it will always deal damage. Also, I believe your last one doesn't exist, because the penta (which has the same damage mechanics) doesn't suffer from that.

 

Ah, a person who doesn't understand balance and game design. Here is an example of why we shouldn't let some people give feedback!

I'm not sure the penta is really applicable. It's a bit different from your buddy who is in the cover position beside you exploding. But I've certainly seen strange occurrences happening with two grineer exploding side-by-side while under cover together. Might have been because it was a fence they were hiding behind. But one didn't even take damage from the other. 

And I'm not entirely  convinced about the LoS either. Again with the fence, you can see through it, but enemies on either side didn't explode. Might be an issue due to certain walls and their physical size as opposed to their 'hitbox'. Bullets may have been programmed to move through these areas, but explosions and other abilities(You ever see see a Wormhole get caught half a meter above a piece of environment?) haven't been. 

 

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It's not Nova's damage that's the problem it's the overlapping utility that she has with M. Prime. Granted, her first power should ignore armor as it did before Damage 2.0, but really, M. Prime would be fine if it were just an explosion, it doesn't need this 50% slow nonsense that it has.

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Then make all the enemies start from lvl 100? 

 

That has nothing to do with frame viability in a positive sense. All it does is magnify how weak most of the frames truly are because half or more of their abilities do nothing but deal non-scaling damage.

 

Nova will still be useful against a level 100 enemy because of Molecular Prime's damage-increasing and slowing properties.

Ash might as well only have one ability in that situation; with that ability being a gimped version of an already-existing ability and offering nothing of note other than psuedo-invincibility.

Edited by Duralumin
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That has nothing to do with frame viability in a positive sense. All it does is magnify how weak most of the frames truly are because half or more of their abilities do nothing but deal non-scaling damage.

 

Nova will still be useful against a level 100 enemy because of Molecular Prime's damage-increasing and slowing properties.

Ash might as well only have one ability in that situation; with that ability being a gimped version of an already-existing ability and offering nothing of note other than psuedo-invincibility.

Yes, Nova kills lvl 200 (or at what level enemies have effective 200000 health). Buffing up other frames to the level of Nova means you will need to  buff all the enemies to keep the game any interesting. Power creep hell.

Edited by Monolake
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1st you state other frames can do the same thing as Nova so you mentioned Rhino:

Lets just compare molecular prime with Rhino Stomp and talk about Novas energy pool. You say it's only 75 unbuffed, but that translates into +150 buffed when max flow is used giving Nova a Total of 450 energy. Rhino has a total of 300 energy with max flow. Here Nova gets an extra 150 energy, thats a hell of a lot, in fact 50% more.

Now lets compare differences in the powers. Rhino Stomp vs Molecular Prime

Not re-castable while active vs Cast cast while previous one is active

No enemy debuff vs 200% extra damage to enemies from all sources

Damage 800 (maxed) vs Damage 1600 (maxed) due to double damage debuff affecting weapons and WF powers, also damage can chain

8 seconds enemies suspended in air, no enemy fire when suspended vs 50% slow and reduction in enemy fire rate for 60s

Can't be cast while jumping, climbing or fron flip vs can be cast at any time

Cast time significantly slower than MP vs Cast time Significantly faster than Rhino Stomp

from the facts above, it's all in the Wiki.....Molecular prime significantly outclasses Rhino Stomp in every way. I chose Rhino because that's the example you used, however this can be done for all the damage warframes and Nova will come out like a shining star.

 

Rhino and Nova are two different frames. I don't see how all this information makes a point to anything. Nova is a damage frame. Rhino is a tank. Although Rhino's abilities are very viable to endgame as well. And yes by endgame I mean fighting high level enemies that keeps upscaling like in t3 defence or survival.

 

 

Well I don't really know what endgame is, I don't believe it's defined and the enemies keep scaling. However, if other other frames suck in comparison....surely Nova is the one that's overpowered compared to other frames. When something is overpowered, it does mean compared to the majority!

On lower levels you also agree that MP can clear out a room....again you haven't defined lower levels, but I have seen MP clearing rooms at 20m plus on survival and wave 20+ in defense (on ERIS/PLUTO). The problem with this is it's "unfun" for others whilst they watch the Nova clear the room. I don't think the developers intended the game to be; 3 people watching a Nova wormhole round the room spamming prime every few seconds for 20m and everything exploding with the few shots they need to fire.

 

No. That other frames suck in comparison doesn't give it the meaning that Nova is the one that should be nerfed. You aren't looking at the bigger picture here. I already explained why buffing other frames is the solution so I repeat once again. Nova's is a damage frame? Does she do damage? Hell yes and she does a good job at that. Are her powers always usefull? Yes. So you see she does what she's designed to do and is always usefull. So why would you nerf her? So that she no longer is usefull? I'd like it if all frames were usefull.

 

Lets compare that to another frame thats also suppose to be a damage frame. Ember. Does she do damage? Yes. Are her powers usefull? Only to a certain level. You can't bring ember to a t3 survival for example if you plan to stay long.

Does Nova do what she's designed for? Yes. Ember? No.

 

Nova can be unfun yes. But like I mentioned many times that all depends on the player. I'd be &!$$ed too if a Nova in my team spammed mp. Or an ember is constantly using wof. Saryn spamming miasma. Or a Rhino constantly stomps the place. See my point?

 

As usual you resort to insults again rather than facts. People are not complaining gaining kills they are complaining about....and try to read this carefully:

1. It's not fun playing with a Nova....I know hard for you to believe, but some of us don't like feeling like a 3rd wheel for 20m or more. People play to kill stuff, not to watch another frame do it all!

Thats all in personal experience. I personally enjoy when there's a Nova in my team clearing most rooms while I can earn easy xp for my weapons. If you don't like it when there's a Nova in your team then I'm sorry to say thats your problem.

2. Nova is so OP, that the abilities coupled with a Movement speed second only to frames like Loki, can allow Nova to move way ahead priming and killing everything before you get there. This massively affects XP for weapon/Frame ranking/levelling.

Once again that all depends on the player. For furher explanation read a tad above.

3. Even when nova is in same room, if you are ranking a Warframe+Weapon, you get half the XP you would have got if you had killed it yourself. Other frames abilities do the same thing when killing enemies, but none can light up the whole room like Nova and simply suck the XP away because you don't get a chance to kill them.

However Nova can clear out many more enemies, thus earning you more xp then you could've gotten by the time you kill them all. Plus once enemies are all killed more spawn so the cycle starts again. So if you plan to level up, Nova in your team is actually more beneficial.

4. The triple effect nature of her ulti, that is not affected at all by corrupted mods, has a very large energy pool, fast casting at any time (even in air) and requires no cool down at all, can simply be cast and cast and cast. Wormhole allows all enemies on a map to be lit up with ease.....because it lasts 60s (no other ulti lasts that long).

Yes. Her ult is perfect. About your wormhole comment I'm going to once again say that's what a funkilling player does. I personally use it often for teammates in vault missions that use the hobbled key. So if its a nice player then Nova is a true teamplayer. I wish I could recast Nyx' chaos over existing enemies. Or casting Nekros' terrify over existing enemies though I'm not sure that would be really usefull. I wish Embers abilities were just as usefull so I could bring her to higher levels. She's my favorite frame but I also love high level maps. So that doesn't work sadly.

I have mentioned a perfectly reasonable re-balance to Nova before, but even that small re-balance you seem to find totally unacceptable!?

I do realise you would like this thread to degenerate into people trading insults and then get it locked down, so the problem goes away. Well even if you all succeed, another thread about Nova will simply start up, because it seems enough people feel strongly enough that there is always someone starting a new thread.

 

Nova doesn't need rebalancing because there's nothing wrong her. However there's plenty wrong with the other frames.

 

And thats where you're wrong. It simply rustles my jimmies when this thread is being brought up again and again, all with the same complaints. Sorry if I sounded insulting but like I said, jimmies rustled. But its okay. People can keep making "nerf Nova" threads if they feel that way. And I will reply if I get to it and explain why that's not the case.

 

Replies in bold and underlined.

Edited by kubbi
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Replies in bold and underlined.

Hmmmmm.

Lets throw balance out the window I guess, buffing everything is obviously the best solution. Like seriously, what could go wrong? Who needs to get a firm grip on the player power level, and create a legitimate endgame with that. Lets just buff everything over and over so the actual game becomes easier and the select minority of the game can go 25 waves farther into endless defense.

 

Personally, I don't want to touch the damage. I want that slowdown S#&$ removed.

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Before we go nuts hitting one of the few frames relevant at all levels of play with the nerfbat, I reccommmend we make a simple change first:

Make the duration of Molecular Prime affected by Power Duration, so people can't use Fleeting Expertise to cast it for 25 energy (not without making it virtually useless, anyway)

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Hmmmmm.

Lets throw balance out the window I guess, buffing everything is obviously the best solution. Like seriously, what could go wrong? Who needs to get a firm grip on the player power level, and create a legitimate endgame with that. Lets just buff everything over and over so the actual game becomes easier and the select minority of the game can go 25 waves farther into endless defense.

 

Personally, I don't want to touch the damage. I want that slowdown S#&$ removed.

 

Buffing doesn't necesarilly mean stronger. It can also mean a simple improvement of abilities for example. Nova is one of the few frames that you can take to high level defence missions because her abilities though they can't whipe out the room, they are still usefull. Embers accelerant is a minor start. The stun and extra fire damage is nice but still not worth bringing.  Isn't it boring to constantly bring the same frames? So when it comes to frames, yes I think that buffing the "underpowered" will help.

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