DaftMeat Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Rhino's Iron Skin works because he's mobile and can avoid damage. Snow Globe is indeed a big immobile target as pointed out previously. Without power scaling, it seems like Snow Globe's usefulness will be severely reduced in high-end Defense/Survival. Will see how it goes when live, but I remain skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genoscythe Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) If frosts 1 would be a frost spray that freezes every enemy in a cone and deals low-medium damage, I would be much more pleased, because nobody actually uses 1st skills with travel time, weapons are just faster and better. But if you could stop enemies from running at you, this would be much more usefull at all levels. Better avalanche sounds good, but the whole concept of radial skills in this game is flawed, rather make avalanche a high-damage frontal cone, other warframe radial abilities cover this niche better already. Also, dont go for fixed values, add a level modifier for enemies(1000 dmg + a % for enemy level or something, let the damage fall-off be softer), you wont go anywhere with fixed damage values for the skills, they will be OP in early level game and useless in endgame. Edited February 5, 2014 by Genoscythe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helosie Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Face it, the old snow globe made a lot of things too damn easy. "OH MY GOD! WE HAVE TO USE STRATAGY NOW TO PROTECT THE DEFENSE POINT, RATHER THEN HIDING INSIDE SNOWGLOBE! OH WOE IS US FOR HAVING TO USE OUR BRAINS!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naugus Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 snowglobe is gonna be worthless on high end missions, just like ironskin T^T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastyCalzone Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Ok im not onew who likes torant but seriouly what the hell DE there was nothing and i mean NOTHING wrong with frosts snow globe now it looks like its gonna be garbage and damn near impossible to solo a T3 void defense thank you for effectively killing my favorite warframe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LxLawliet Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Would be awesome if incoming damage would be mitigated too - instead of dealing 100%, the damage would be decreased by X% per rank (let's say, 10% at Rank 1 up to 35% at max rank). 3500 health isn't much when considering that Frost's Snowglobe really begins to shine at high level content. Said value is a piece of cake if a lot of enemies shoot at it at once, and a decrease of incoming damage would help greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Face it, the old snow globe made a lot of things too damn easy. "OH MY GOD! WE HAVE TO USE STRATAGY NOW TO PROTECT THE DEFENSE POINT, RATHER THEN HIDING INSIDE SNOWGLOBE! OH WOE IS US FOR HAVING TO USE OUR BRAINS!" The issue is that enemy damage scales such that as long as one enemy gets through in high level play, the pod's toast. Globe gave you a buffer against this. Now it doesn't. Would be awesome if incoming damage would be mitigated too - instead of dealing 100%, the damage would be decreased by X% per rank (let's say, 10% at Rank 1 up to 35% at max rank). Yeah. I think something like "will provide total immunity to damage up to the first 3-5k, then 40% DR after that until its duration expires" might make it workable without being as powerful as it was. But I think the same sort of thing about Iron Skin, so... Edited February 5, 2014 by Cpl_Facehugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthua Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Will Snowglobe still have duration or stay up until depleted like Iron Skin then? Will we still be able to cast multiple snowglobes? PS: 3500 is like... nothing considering there is no mitigation to it. Edited February 5, 2014 by Synthua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath_Of_Chrysalis Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 By god! Frost finally is free from freeze! That was so ice of you DE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYABU5A Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 as long as avalanches damage is increased significantly this should be great frost will be fun to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angius Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Can somebody of DE staff test those changes on, let's say, T3 Defence? I wonder how long the Snowglobe will last. Seriously, sometimes I think, that those changes are like "Hey, Bob, a few people on forums said, that Snowglobe needs nerfing. I mean, there were tens of topics about buffing other Frost abilities and leaving the Snowglobe alone, but pfff...""So, nerfhammer?""Nerfhammer.""Let's give it HP! Like Rhino Iron Skin, because people were soooooo happy about that change.""Ok, noted. What values?""I don't know. Something ridiculously low.""Oh, ok. Looks like a good idea, eh?""And don't test it. I mean, we are not even playing this game, so just throw random numbers. And if somebody from the community says, that it's too low, just say 'deal with it' " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon1951 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Does that mean Frost Prime's Snowglobe, being a Prime, will have a higher points for damage, if not it should being a higher version of the original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannaWhoopazz Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Sorry for all the hate you're getting about switching Globe to health based, but such is life! People have their Frosts modded for duration, now we'll have to switch to Strength right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhoyzu Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 ogod no my frost has been nerfed!!!!! increase health. make it like iron skin the globe moves with frost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sysolos Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 With allied projectiles not being able to pass through the outside of Globe, will this change make allied projectiles damage the globe or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archistopheles Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Changes: Ice Blast: Comparable to Ember's Fireball in casting time and result of impact/damage. Avalanche: Increased casting speed and increased damage. Snowglobe: Now has health that is increased with fusion (currently: 1500,2500,3000,3500) He needs more utility, though. Ice Wave is his "nuke." If anything needs a damage bonus, it's Ice Wave. If you're going to copy/paste Fireball to Ice Blast, then please consider giving it a slowing AoE at the point of impact with similar duration as Fireball's DoT. Avalanche casting speed and damage is a step in the right direction, but without a secondary utility effect (Rhino's Stomp) it will still be useless at a certain level. Please consider the possibility of adding a knockback -> knockdown + slow to Avalanche. The ability would look something like: *Frost begins casting Avalanche* (for the duration of the cast, all enemies in range are frozen solid) Upon finishing, Avalanche does X damage to all enemies within range, and sends enemies within 10 meters flying backwards, knocking them down, and slowing them for X seconds. If it doesn't provide significant benefit at all levels, players will simply not use it, plus, an avalanche has significant impact force in real life too... just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syius Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 sorry but " issues of viability of other frames in the "Defense" mission types" is not a reason, what alternative we have for snow globe(no volt electric shield is not valid defense for tower III defense)? Also please stop scaling power for low level enemies, 3500 looks like hp prepared for max 25lvl mobs. Please think about "elder game" when most weapons deal extremely low dmg to shields or/and armor/hp of orokin void mobs it isn't fun to switch primary for shields and then switching back to secondary only for armor or Moa mechanic hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannaWhoopazz Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Can somebody of DE staff test those changes on, let's say, T3 Defence? I wonder how long the Snowglobe will last. Seriously, sometimes I think, that those changes are like "Hey, Bob, a few people on forums said, that Snowglobe needs nerfing. I mean, there were tens of topics about buffing other Frost abilities and leaving the Snowglobe alone, but pfff..." "So, nerfhammer?" "Nerfhammer." "Let's give it HP! Like Rhino Iron Skin, because people were soooooo happy about that change." "Ok, noted. What values?" "I don't know. Something ridiculously low." "Oh, ok. Looks like a good idea, eh?" "And don't test it. I mean, we are not even playing this game, so just throw random numbers. And if somebody from the community says, that it's too low, just say 'deal with it' " DE does play the game dude. And they do have a Test server to test things out on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychosist Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) 1000 HP is torn in seconds by a hoard of level 30 enemies. 3500 isn't that much better. Please make it so that Snow Globe has infinite HP for 15 seconds and afterward uses a 5000 HP life system. Also one must recollect that Rhino's Iron skin sits at 1200 HP. If a Globe is deployed for the entire team, that's like giving everyone Iron Skin. 1200 x 4 = 4800 HP. Also Snow Globe is non mobile. 3500 HP on a static skill is unacceptable on a full team. In addition to the above, I'd like to make an alternate fix for Snow Globe. A casted Snow Globe functions as it does currently, but Tenno staying inside the Globe will become gradually slowed over time before reaching a set cap of 50% slowed movement and firing rate. The slow is worn off once you step outside. Edited February 5, 2014 by Psychosist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhziDahaka Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) I'm worried about Snowglobe's health not being high enough, myself, though I can understand why it's there. I think as was suggested, a grace invincibility period might be the best compromise, and the health itself is going to take some experimentation to get right. For example, maybe at max rank it'd have 10 seconds invincibility, and then have health before finally disappearing regardless at whatever the current duration is. That way, it has more viability in higher-level content but isn't completely broken in low-level content. It would also make sense for it to have it's own weaknesses and resistances, so for exampe it should be strong against puncture and slash but weak against impact, and strong against ice but weak against fire. I do like Frost's other powers getting a buff. Ice Wave was the only other one I ever used! Edited February 5, 2014 by AhziDahaka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokyBird Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Well, a health bar for Snow Globe, if it's like Iron Skin, with unlimited time and health limit, why not ! But please, if I'm not the only one, correct that bug where Corpus ennemies aren't even slowed down on my Snow Globe :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direcyphre Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 So basically Frost now only benefits from power mods (as range doesn't help snowglobe, unless that also drastically changed). Ice blast now... no longer freezes enemies and only does damage? That point doesn't make a lot of sense to me. At least other frames there is a sense of balance to where you either slot a selection of ability mods (range, power, duration, anything energy related), or you focused on certain effects on certain abilities (power on the three damage abilities of Frost, or duration on ice blast and snowglobe). No mention of Ice Wave, the absolute worst ability, and whether or not it's getting replaced/reworked. Snowglobe is no longer a viable tactic for defense beyond mid-tier. I mean I get that adding hitpoints makes it 'more challenging' or whatever, but this is the same as the original Iron Skin. It definitely didn't work when it was first introduced. This being a deployable 360 degree shield rather than just a single target means it would need exponentially more health to withstand anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KvotheTheArcane1 Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) Face it, the old snow globe made a lot of things too damn easy. "OH MY GOD! WE HAVE TO USE STRATAGY NOW TO PROTECT THE DEFENSE POINT, RATHER THEN HIDING INSIDE SNOWGLOBE! OH WOE IS US FOR HAVING TO USE OUR BRAINS!" It's not that it doesn't need a nerf, it did because it made 90% of ranged enemies pointless, but they're overnerfing again. Imagine rhino's IS, with 3x HP, but as a giant immobile target.You can probably see the problem already. edit: Oh, and now frost is replaced by loki with an RD spam build, and vauban with bastille or vortex. DE does play the game dude. And they do have a Test server to test things out on. Sure doesn't seem like it, 3.5k HP is nothing, there's is 0 reason to bring a frost to a T3D over loki now. Edited February 5, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidaku Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 @DERebecca , cool thanks for the changes :D Now the newt frame that needs a little rework = Nyx, her second ability is really usless right now , so usless i'm tempted to forma her ability slot for something else . Could you improve psychic bolts in any way to make it somewhat viable? Thanks for the work you put into this and keep it up DE! PS: Zephyr looks awesome But I think you should give some kind of compensation or gift to the guy who thought out the name and one of her abilites (turbulence) on the concept thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voaster Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 sounds to me like a gigantic nerf to Frost even narrowing down the list of frames viable for 1-hour+ survivals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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