Frost: 2/5/2014

[magusat999]

Calling the other guy stupid usually doesn't do much for your argument, other than get a flame war started.

 

On the subject of roles, is there any point to other frames besides the ones you mentioned.

 

 

Okay nearly invulnerable, and the AOE spam really was in effect for 1 faction. Bring those guys down and then what? You could let those lancers shoot at you all day and not worry about it. Rail gun MOA's are a small issue comparatively, and infested are CC'd by entering the skill

 

Now watch someone say I've never played T3 Defense or something.

 

 

And according to some it's still effective.

 

If you feel that you absolutly need a single skill to do something maybe you need to try a different strategy? Or maybe we were never intended to get that high, something the devs have said before. If you are still able to hit wave 100 congrats you are better than those before you.

 

Once again not agreeing that the nerf was the right one, but something needed to change.

Um - show me where I called someone stupid? I said where I CALLED SOMEONE STUPID, not said something was stupid. Saying something is stupid is not calling someone stupid.

 

There doesn't HAVE TO be other roles in a squad based games. Some frames do have multiple roles - but if they do they do and if they don't they don't. Lets just be realistic and not pretend that every frame was designed to do everything. What's the point of collecting different frames if you feel that one frame should do everything??? That's another part of squad based play. So people THINK about what frame and what role they want to bring - instead of being LAZY and choosing with your eyes closed because they all do the same role.

 

And i still disagree - no nerf needed here. Came totally out of left field, doing something that totally destroys the flow of defensive play.

[Lacrimosa_Irae]

Thanks for freeing up the warframe slot my frost is in, i guess

[ArsVampyre]

Snow Globe retains it's same timer.  Not that taking the timer off will fix the problem, but I can't imagine what Scott was thinking.

[semigod22]

@archguy  u said DE knows what they doing? i can agree with that. but i dont think DE thought about everything  while makin that globe change. do you really think they tested it vs high wave defense (corpus/grineer) ??  i doubt it.

 

this globe gets 1 shotted...  and u dont have enough energy to spam it every 1 second. (even without blind rage)

 

 

DE forgot about 2 things.  the high def players who used frost sometimes AND the new players.. im sure they will get destroyed in a non mercury defense vs corpus/grineer. cause they new to the game.

 

 

i dont get the crying of players sayin this nerf was needed?!? did u ever play wave above 50 or 40? and that on pluto/eris  etc? (not mercury...)

even with the immortal globe the pod got 1 shotted cuz the enemys are in ur globe much faster.  so even then it was high risk

 

 

oh before anyone complains...  i didnt really play frost since u 9.0 or end of update9      but seen enough frosts in the past

[Sebastianx]

As far as I understand the main reason why DE had to nerf Snowglobe was something like this :

 

" in Defense missions you have to bring a Frost, it is not even a choice for players "

 

I do understand this point, BUT... Frost was specifically designed as the defense frame, right ?

 

Now I can only see two options here for DE :

 

1) Keeping Frost as the Slow/Tanky/Defensive frame --> you need to fix Snowglobe (un-nerf it)

 

2) Changing Frost to a Battle-Mage --> increase the damage of powers to a very high level comparable to other DPS frames !!!

 

IMHO 

Damage,Speed,lower costs,larger AoEs...and even then I won't use him because everyone knows in late game,CC/utility is God Tier,and damage is utter crap,no matter from what source...he was supposed to be the Defense Frame as you said,but unless they revert Snow Globe back,make his 2 a giant wall that blocks movement of enemies (much like Anivia in league of legends),his 4 into a massive CC freeze skill then I can't see that happening.

[Zaresin]

Snow Globe retains it's same timer.  Not that taking the timer off will fix the problem, but I can't imagine what Scott was thinking.

easy...he wasn't

[Sebastianx]

High level Scorch also have something to say about that.

And Bombards,and Napalms,and grenades from crewmen and lancers...and a whole lot of stuff.

[BlueSilkMetallic]

So I took a look in the forums to see if its a good idea to play warframe again and what do I see :

A nerf.

Skill changes....

All things why I left warframe -_-

Forum/game closed (for me, for now)

[TrainerMaroon]

I have been playing this game since January of last year .I was here when frost was nigh on impossible to get and frost prime was a time sync that required hours of praying to the RNG gods for drop. I personally have forma'd frost 2 just to increase my defensive needs health/shields wise. With a new damage buff for enemies,  Armor being ignored at certain percentages, and bleeding damage taking place at an increased time , I heavily relied on my Snow Globe to halt certain powerful enemies from instantly putting me down at high levels.  It protected the high damage count from taking down my team-mates, my objective, and myself. The problems I faced then , are now re-occurring. I am no longer able to protect my objective the way I used to and that has forced my hand in choosing frames for defense mission. 

 

Key points,

Frost is very slow, building him for better movement speed detracts from his high tank, and unique objective defense. 

 

Frost's other abilities, were not the most powerful , so weak that his first skill wasn't clearing out basic enemies, past level 10.

His Ice Wave, was and continues to be a fantastic skill for damage and area clearing 

Snow Globe was an extra defense bonus that made up for his slow movement speed, and poor room clearing abilities.

Avalanche, was at most a minor nuisance to enemies at high levels, because of its guaranteed stagger Proc giving you more time to gun them down. 

 With the most recent patch, his powers have gained damage, which is truly great! Yet these new powers have come at cost. 

 

With Frost's new focus no longer on heavy area defense from his Snow Globe , but on power damage and keeping Snow Globe up when appropriate; he has begun a downward spiral.

 

With his Low movement speed, frost does not run away from enemies. 

With Sub-par room clearing abilities (in comparison to Ember, Nova, and Oberon)  he is forced to deal with a lot of enemies at once without being able to run for cover, or run and gun opponents down.

With Decent armor, he still has a fighting chance, but he will not ever be doing as much damage as Nova, Nor will he be quite as tanky as Iron Skin Rhino. 

He has no built in healing abilities, and with Rejuvenation aura instead of Energy Drain, his powers are crippled. Or, when reversed, he has the energy to do damage, but can no longer have a safe fire-free zone in which to recover.

 

At the end of the day, you are forced to play Frost/Prime, with a focus towards power damage, range, and efficiency  which decreases his tank by a huge degree.

 

Or, You can leave your defense mods on and barely have enough energy for a snow globe that lasts for 10 seconds after being shot down,and being put down by pure bullet damage.

 

I truly enjoy Update 12, and the new frames and patches. But with this new Meta of Buffing and Patching, Frames are being broken down into their most important and unique criteria. If I am hosting a T3 defense , I will probably have to ignore any players who would join as Frost simply because I know he is either, Doing enough power damage,  but will be downed fairly easily, or he is trying to tank with Snowglobe, and will be forced to hide inside of it until it breaks. I would simply enjoy any fixes that guarantees Frost/Prime are still viable frames without ruining his current objective of holding down an objective and protecting a zone. 

[FuzzyRamen]

Utility Frost is now on retirement, Battle Frost to the rescue?

[Pendragon1951]

First off Rebecca let me compliment you on the heads up information you gave us before the big update. I wish something like this would happen more often. In regards to Frost's Snow Globe, I will try testing this later but my initial reaction is that Snow Globe will be shredded in high tier defenses removing Frost as a possible high tier defensive Warframe. I'll speak more on this after I test it today.

[AllanIncubi]

Well Frost others abilities sound useful but still limited to lower level game play the key point of Frost was that he could help allies defend a point or to stay alive for shields to come up or saving a downed ally in the higher level missions. This Hp to Globe is sketchy to me because now its gonna be 8 shot easily or die too quickly due to how much damage it will take in mid to higher level areas. Its kinda disappointing to me to hear this but ill test Frost out on Pluto and see how it shines or just any survival/defense mission in general. Suck to know the best Defence utility frame is now cut in half.

[LukeAura]

I think this change should have been considered with the upcoming melee system in mind. With more and more dangerous melee and short range opponents who will now advance towards and enter the globe in greater numbers, along with the other forms of penetrating damage already in play, a timed invincibility sphere works fine. If needed, why not just shorten Snow globes duration so it has consistent use for all levels of play without the capabilities of having it up permanently due to extensive modding. 

 

[fatpig84]

Nice knowing ya Globe.

 

Anyway..... Can Avalanche have an increased freeze duration on enemies ?

At least give Frost some hardcore CC ya know.

Edited February 6, 2014 by fatpig84

[Sebastianx]

And refund the fools like myself who actually spent platinum on him!

Aye,I say just remove Frost from the game,give us what he's worth in platinum,and the platinum for every time he got forma'd,also extra platinum for wasted time while I could have leveld other stuff.Then everyone would stop complaining.

[mrmburns]

Should've just lowered the duration and/or increased the energy cost on snowglobe rather than making it totally useless as it is now.

[Morcant]

I'll add my 2 cents, though it's likely to be lost in the fountain of fanatical tears.

 

I'm not opposed to the Frost change. I don't believe the game should be balanced around what works in the fringe cases of wave 100+ defense or 1+ hour survival. Players who choose to challenge themselves thus should anticipate frequent changes to preserve/restore the, well, challenge of play at such high levels.

 

However, currently Snow Globe is the worst of both worlds with respect to durability vs. duration. If you mod for Snow Globe duration, you cheapen mod points or Forma spent toward durability, and vice-versa. I'm hoping that the duration timer is merely an oversight that was not intended to be left in effect.

 

Still, great work on U12, from what I've seen it's almost all very positive changes.

[razorbak92]

I don't like it. The duration method was better :/

[cesmode]

My buddy, who plays Frost as one of his main frames for our defense runs, will be upset with me, but....

 

I agree with the change to snowglobe.  Its one of those cast and forget abilities.  The no brainer abilities.  Now, frost players need to be a bit more mindful as to whats is transpiring around them.

 

Next change:  Nerf Nova MPrime...Nova in general is literally my go to, all-purpose faction, pure DPS frame.  Prime it all, blast it all.  Prime it all, throw in a drop or two, and watch the world burn.  One of those warframes where if you need to fill a pure DPS spot, its most likely going to be Nova.

 

Need more warframe balance and ability balance.  Give us reasons to use more than one or two abilities.

[mrmburns]

There's a difference between reducing the effectiveness of a skill and changing the way the entire skill works.

[cesmode]

Wow, reading some of the whine about frost/snow globe.  Really?  So they brought an ability into line with other abilities on defense frames, and you think that frost needs a nerf?  And then when they nerf Vauban's Bastille(or whatever it is that CCs) so that theres a limit to the # of mobs you can pick up or something...and/or do the same to Nyx's chaos...Are you going to continue retiring warframes because you can no longer play in ubermode? 

 

To the people giving up on frost:  Now you just need to be mindful of the cryopod on defense.  Its no longer a cast, and forget about it for 5 minutes.  Its just another element of gameplay and situational awareness.

 

No issues with it here.

 

As I stated in my previous post, there are many other frames that need to be brought into line with other frames for their given role in a group.  If DE knows whats good for them, expect more changes like this. 

[LukeAura]

I agree with the change to snowglobe.  Its one of those cast and forget abilities.  The no brainer abilities.  Now, frost players need to be a bit more mindful as to whats is transpiring around them.

Except that the whole point of Snow Globe is to block what is transpiring around it. When things get really bad, drop a globe. 

The worse it gets, the more you need it. 

But now, opposite to the rise in need is that the worse it gets, the less snow globe is effective. 

So when you have a problem, 10+ enemies say, snowglobe is ineffective at solving it. 

When you don't have a problem, 4- enemies, It's absolutely magical. 

That's just backwards logic. 

 

[Celseus]

I don't agree with the changes to Frost's Snowglobe.

 

Why would you call Frost a defensive warframe in description. Base Frost around Snowglobe (all his other skills are, to be blunt, crap). Then nerf Snowglobe, his defensive skill? This is just the worst thing I've seen done by DE thus far.

 

P.S: I like how people who have never played Frost / clearly show no understanding on how Snowglobe works, then say that they are fine with the Snowglobe nerf. Especially those who think they are invunerable in a Snowglobe -have you ever met a Grineer Napalm before?

Edited February 6, 2014 by Celseus

[ThePresident777]

Snow Globe's demise implies that DE is getting ready to destroy ults, and Warframe as far as I'm concerned.  Bye bye anything and everything spectacular in Warframe.  Welcome to Nerframe, a terrible bait and switch, industry standard boredom, no greatness, everything slight.

 

 

Not exactly. People assume Fireball is underwhelming when infact it's pretty much about the same as everyone else's "1" ability - only with a particular element.

 

I use Fireball proactively. Its damage isn't that bad, but you don't do it for the damage. 100% fire proc, which means you're both doing DoT as well as "stunning" enemies. Fling that at a rushing Ancient or a ranged heavy Grineer and they're instantly nullified long enough to either kill or get to a better position.

 

Frost's freeze sounds like it'll do the same kind of deal, only with even -longer- stun time since it freezes enemies.

 

The next paragraph of mine after the sentence you quoted is relevant.  Just use your ult and you'll kill more of them.  At 25 energy points, it's too costly to use Fireball, etc.  Even if Warframe had no ults, even if DE nerfs ults to the ground, 25 energy for such limited results is too costly.

[Celseus]

Snow Globe's demise implies that DE is getting ready to destroy ults, and Warframe as far as I'm concerned.  Bye bye anything and everything spectacular in Warframe.  Welcome to Nerframe, a terrible bait and switch, industry standard boredom, no greatness, everything slight.

 

 

These were my first thoughts when I read the patch notes.

 

The Snowglobe nerf was just unecessary, they ruined the idea of a Defensive Warframe. Now Frost is resorting to spam like a slow, sub-standard Ember at higher levels.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Celseus