Frost: 2/5/2014

[Lucidity_XD]

 

Did you rework your mods ?  Is snow globe's HP/strength now impacted by things like Power Strength? 

 

 

It doesn't matter. Strength mods will affect it, but it still has too little health (will still die in seconds to multiple enemies shooting), and now drains heavy energy to use. Even this post doesn't matter, because people aren't reading the topic, or responding to things they don't like.

 

I posted a long post like 6 pages back with my firsthand use of frost, and not a single person who was pro-nerf probably read it, because everyone is still trying to argue that the nerf is fine because you're not supposed to fight to level 100 enemies, when I'm already showing snow globe is worthless at level 30. That's normal star chart level, and it's already not worth casting. Again, without blind rage and focus, a snow globe lasts three seconds against ONE level 30 heavy gunner. That's not hyperbole, I mean three seconds. With focus and blind rage, it's six seconds. And if you equip fleeting expertise to deal with 70-80 energy snow globes that die in six seconds MAYBE, then the CC ability for his three other skills takes a giant hit (-60% duration) AND your snowglobe will only last 13 seconds MAX ALSO because of duration. But good luck even getting it to 13.

 

This isn't hard to test. Go the upper level systems. You don't need to wait to high wave defense, level 100 for snow globe to be worthless. It's worthless before you can finish the star chart. Which makes frost worthless.

[Sasquatchias]

An ability that literally made you invincible, DE nerfs it, people whine.

You guys, hahahahahahha, you guys LMAO

Snowglobe did not make you invincible, just harder to kill. And people whine about the nerf because it was excessive, not because of the concept of it being nerfed. Heck, most Frost players if asked would agree that it was a little too good. Edited February 6, 2014 by Sasquatch180

[Mordavia1982]

I think they should raise the amount absorbed, maybe to 10.000 or so, but not able to absorb a bazillion hit points.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Mordavia1982

[TankHunter678]

Which was the whole point. If you'd tried to take Nyx before, people would have said "lol y u no take frost noob".

The reason being is that Nyx's Chaos denies people exp if those affected by it kill each other.

 

Not to mention, Frost was simply tankier, and could stand to run out into fire momentarily to put down a snowglobe and revive people.

 

Now people will be calling Frosts idiots and noobs for bringing him into the one game mode he was made for. All because his main defense ability is now worthless. Frost was not really welcome in any other game mode due to his slow plodding speed besides nightmare, where sometimes you simply have to take it slow and steady.

 

Frost does not have a place anymore.

[KuroNekoXlll]

Significantly worse. Would rather take a Vauban or a Nyx. Only way I would use a Frost for their snowglobe is if we got a loki with a radial disarm build so that everything walks into the slow field instead of popping the bubble.

if ur gonna radial disarm, might as well have brought booben instead

[Blazer-X]

This is actually a pretty good idea for making use of the new globe. The only issue I'd have then is that they kept the limited duration as part of it too, so even if you avoid a large amount of damage to the globe to keep it up, it's going to disappear in 30 sec anyways.

I mean this is the logical fallacy behind the current Snow Globe. Past mid-level, we need to start using other skills to protect it from collapsing. And what was Snow Globe supposed to do again? Oh right, protect us and potential defending objectives. So we're using another skill to protect the globe that is supposed to protect us. Wait... why don't we just skip the globe and use the other skill? Even assuming it lasted forever like Iron Skin, this will still be an issue.

[ThePresident777]

I think the general idea is, and DE can correct me if I am wrong, is that they want all warframes abilities to fulfill a role and be in line with other similar frames for a role.  They don't want frost/snowglobe to be one of two 100% go to frames.  They don't want you to spam 1 ability, sit back and chill.  They want to balance our the warframe selection process.  Doing a defense?  Well, my buddy is running a nyx, so we have some CC...how about some support then?  Hm, Ok trinity, oby, or Nekros?  They want you to make informed decisions on what toon to bring.  Not an automatic choice each time just because one ability had an uptime of 90% and blocked all incoming projectiles. 

 

Informed decisions.

 

Now, while I agree with the nerf, I don't agree with the pace at which they are balancing frames.  They nerfed snowglobe making it inferior to, say vauban or a nyx for defense.  If they had brought vauban and nyx into line with the snowglobe nerf, then your warframe choice becomes a bit better.  Cryo pod protection, or general CC?

 

Think of the big picture folks.  I really believe this is the start of them finally balancing out the game.  Bringing down abilities that were just automatic no brainer choices, and that really required no thought process in using, and making the warframe selection process as well as ability use more informed and more thought provoking.

 

 

edit: in short, they need to balance out multiple frames at once so that there isn't a general exodus from one frame to another. 

 

If they nerf the other defense abilities like they did Snow Globe then defense is ruined.  Then the only thing worth while in the game would be offense.  If they then move on to nerfing Offense, then they're just playing games with level scaling in a covert way, wasting time.  OMG pluto becomes this really hard planet that only elite S#&$ bucket warriors can conquer.  Wow, I'm so impressed, I think I'll buy one plat.

 

Really, when will players learn that all this nerf/buff nonsense is just a boondoggle.  It's make work for the developers so they can easily give the impression of change while not adding any real change to the game like features.  It's the same bullS#&$ that EAware pulls off all the time with games like Mass Effect 3.

Edited February 6, 2014 by ThePresident777

[ToeSama]

Which was the whole point. If you'd tried to take Nyx before, people would have said "lol y u no take frost noob".

 

Then the point has failed, because you are flipping one monkey for another. If DE wants things to be balanced, player choice should be the only deciding factor of who to bring and why. Frames are not competing well against each other as of late, and instead of bringing those falling behind up to par, they lower the bar all around by nerfing the top dogs to lessen the required work needed on the lower tier frames.

 

Frost's nerf does little to help the balance of the game over all. If they want to have better Frame rotation in the community, they should make the sucky frames better, not the good frames sucky.

[Celseus]

Which was the whole point. If you'd tried to take Nyx before, people would have said "lol y u no take frost noob".

 

Most people would take Nyx over Frost on non-defence mission. So now we nerf Nyx? Most people would take Nova over Nyx on exterminate missions. Do we nerf Nova?

 

I don't see your logic. Nyx was always a crowd control frame, Frost was always a defender frame. Are you saying Frost was nerfed because he was better at defending than Nyx? Then I would argue we should nerf Nyx because she's better at crowd control than Frost.

 

This is LogicFail Prime.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Celseus

[thegooseking]

It's Trinity's Blessing that makes you invincible. Which by the way, that can be built to only cost 25 energy and last for ~20 seconds

How?

 

The only way to make it cost 25 energy is Fleeting Expertise + Streamline, and Fleeting Expertise reduces the duration by 60%.

 

Never mind. I get it now.

Edited February 6, 2014 by thegooseking

[cesmode]

I don't share your game design philosophy.  It bores me.  And you talk like your opinion is right and everything else is wrong which is false because people have fun with the game mechanics that you despise.  Games don't have to be how you describe.  They can be successful and players enjoy them even when you despise them.

 

First, I didnt use the word despise.  You seem to be getting emotional because someone can have a rational thought about this and see the bigger picture.  Sorry you are unable to.

 

Second, if DE wanted players to run and gun with one ability that is omnipotent for its role(mprime, globe, etc), then they would have left globe alone.  Im simply saying that there are a few abilities that make warframe selection and ability use very one dimensional.  Maybe DE is leaning toward a game that requires a bit more thought than pressing an 'I Win' button.  If you like your "hack and slash" type of gameplay where you just barrel through a ton of mobs spamming one ability, Diablo 3 is your game.  I have trouble understanding why players in games like it when one or two classes are so overpowered because of an ability... and im baffled why they would get frustrated when the developers try to make the game a bit more dynamic by forcing you to utilize other abilities or select other classes. 

 

Take a deep breath before you go to lash out at someone next time.  I stated my opinion.  Your next post was 100% directed at me and you made your entire post about me.  Umadbro?

[Kaiser_Suoh]

The reason being is that Nyx's Chaos denies people exp if those affected by it kill each other.

 

Not to mention, Frost was simply tankier, and could stand to run out into fire momentarily to put down a snowglobe and revive people.

 

Now people will be calling Frosts idiots and noobs for bringing him into the one game mode he was made for. All because his main defense ability is now worthless. Frost was not really welcome in any other game mode due to his slow plodding speed besides nightmare, where sometimes you simply have to take it slow and steady.

 

Frost does not have a place anymore.

I agree, now is too low to Assassin missions, and not have a Snow Globe to make Defenses.

Is more like a nuisance.

[AlchemistMute]

if ur gonna radial disarm, might as well have brought booben instead

Booben's Bastille only stuns 13-something enemies. Vortex has a rather small range and causes buggy ragdolling. Radial Disarm is reliable, has a good range and comes on a Frame with a 10% power efficiency helmet.

[cesmode]

 

 

 

 

It doesn't matter. Strength mods will affect it, but it still has too little health (will still die in seconds to multiple enemies shooting), and now drains heavy energy to use. Even this post doesn't matter, because people aren't reading the topic, or responding to things they don't like.

 

I posted a long post like 6 pages back with my firsthand use of frost, and not a single person who was pro-nerf probably read it, because everyone is still trying to argue that the nerf is fine because you're not supposed to fight to level 100 enemies, when I'm already showing snow globe is worthless at level 30. That's normal star chart level, and it's already not worth casting. Again, without blind rage and focus, a snow globe lasts three seconds against ONE level 30 heavy gunner. That's not hyperbole, I mean three seconds. With focus and blind rage, it's six seconds. And if you equip fleeting expertise to deal with 70-80 energy snow globes that die in six seconds MAYBE, then the CC ability for his three other skills takes a giant hit (-60% duration) AND your snowglobe will only last 13 seconds MAX ALSO because of duration. But good luck even getting it to 13.

 

This isn't hard to test. Go the upper level systems. You don't need to wait to high wave defense, level 100 for snow globe to be worthless. It's worthless before you can finish the star chart. Which makes frost worthless.

 

 

 

Oh I definately believe you.  Its now in line with the 90% of useless abilities, sure.  There are now more viable alternatives to frost and snow globe for defense.  When/if they bring other frames and abilities more in line with this nerf, then everything balances out and the new high level game ceases to be 100 waves and becomes something a lot less. 

 

I firmly believe they need to absolutely STOP pumping warframes, primes and new guns into this game and focus on balance.  There are way too many examples of one or two frames using one or two abilities to fill a role.

[TankHunter678]

I was gonna say his new place is bench warmer, but I'm not sure he could even do that.

If he sat on the bench it would be ice cold by the time everyone else got there. Unless he was sitting next to Ember while she waits for an infested invasion, but that could create a rather explosive situation if frost could not keep his cool and ember got too heated up. Can't put him next to Saryn either, there would be too many people calling in sick from some sort of viral infection.

[Kaiser_Suoh]

When the Iron Skin ends Rhino think "is dangerous here, i run out of here"

When Snow Globe is melted "ok im f*cking dead"

[KuroNekoXlll]

Booben's Bastille only stuns 13-something enemies. Vortex has a rather small range and causes buggy ragdolling. Radial Disarm is reliable, has a good range and comes on a Frame with a 10% power efficiency helmet.

i meant using snow globe in conjunction with disarm is less ideal than bastille(so you might as well have brought booben instead) 

 

so that further defeats the purpose of frost

 

also bastille stacks and suspended bodies block stuff behind it so i dont see your point with the limited number of enemies

[cesmode]

If they nerf the other defense abilities like they did Snow Globe then defense is ruined.  Then the only thing worth while in the game would be offense.  If they then move on to nerfing Offense, then they're just playing games with level scaling in a covert way, wasting time.  OMG pluto becomes this really hard planet that only elite S#&$ bucket warriors can conquer.  Wow, I'm so impressed, I think I'll buy one plat.

 

Really, when will players learn that all this nerf/buff nonsense is just a boondoggle.  It's make work for the developers so they can easily give the impression of change while not adding any real change to the game like features.  It's the same bullS#&$ that EAware pulls off all the time with games like Mass Effect 3.

 

 

Well, its ruined if the loot tables at wave 30 are completely different than at 100.  Off the top of my head I can't remember. 

 

But if wave 30, for example, becomes the threshold goal to reach...then whats broken?  You simply don't need to wade through 100 waves of easy mode play to get to the good stuff. 

 

If it becomes 30, again for example, then the new endgame for defnese simply becomes 30 and everyone is on equal footing for it.  Provided that the loot tables from 100, if they are different at all, are available at 30.  30, 100?  Who cares?  As long as its challenging, fun, and rewarding does the number of waves matter?

 

I know Im in the minority and I need to get back to work.  Just trying to paint a different picture for people to think about.  Yes snow globe is probably the pits now, but it is probably part of a larger effort to rebalance the game.

[thegooseking]

Most people would take Nyx over Frost on non-defence mission. So now we nerf Nyx? Most people would take Nova over Nyx on exterminate missions. Do we nerf Nova?

 

I don't see your logic. Nyx was always a crowd control frame, Frost was always a defender frame. Are you saying Frost was nerfed because he was better at defending than Nyx? Then I would argue we should nerf Nyx because she's better at crowd control than Frost.

 

This is LogicFail Prime.

The logic is quite sound. I'm not going to bother arguing with you because you're now just trying to provoke me.

[LukeAura]

I think the general idea is, and DE can correct me if I am wrong, is that they want all warframes abilities to fulfill a role and be in line with other similar frames for a role.  They don't want frost/snowglobe to be one of two 100% go to frames.  They don't want you to spam 1 ability, sit back and chill.  They want to balance our the warframe selection process.  Doing a defense?  Well, my buddy is running a nyx, so we have some CC...how about some support then?  Hm, Ok trinity, oby, or Nekros?  They want you to make informed decisions on what toon to bring.  Not an automatic choice each time just because one ability had an uptime of 90% and blocked all incoming projectiles. 

 

Informed decisions.

 

Now, while I agree with the nerf, I don't agree with the pace at which they are balancing frames.  They nerfed snowglobe making it inferior to, say vauban or a nyx for defense.  If they had brought vauban and nyx into line with the snowglobe nerf, then your warframe choice becomes a bit better.  Cryo pod protection, or general CC?

 

Think of the big picture folks.  I really believe this is the start of them finally balancing out the game.  Bringing down abilities that were just automatic no brainer choices, and that really required no thought process in using, and making the warframe selection process as well as ability use more informed and more thought provoking.

 

 

edit: in short, they need to balance out multiple frames at once so that there isn't a general exodus from one frame to another. 

Although they do need to balance warframes so each one has a function and a reasonable reason to be picked in multiple situations, I don't think that contradicts my statement. Why design an ability to handle a situation, then give it mechanics that work against it? If it is meant to hold a location against a large number of enemies, why are a large numbers of enemies so effective at breaking it down? 

Iron Skin works even with the health because its mechanics work with it, not against it. It can get behind cover, it can move away from a large number of enemies too hard to take on at once. And it even helps the process by providing CC immunity so Rhino can get away or to a better position easier. It is benefited by mobility, CC immunity, and small size. While snow globe lacking the small size and mobility actively hinder its form of protection. 

 

[ArsVampyre]

Which was the whole point. If you'd tried to take Nyx before, people would have said "lol y u no take frost noob".

No, they say 'Y u no cast Chaos, Nub?'.

 

Nyx has always been welcome on defense, because Chaos scales with everything.

[(PSN)wintersandman]

Let's take a look at  Zephyr.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Zephyr_(Warframe)

We have Turbulence. Which for those who don't like to click links redirect all incoming bullets. 

This is just a start. 

Mag - bullet attractor,

Nyx - Chaos

Loki - Radial Disarm

Vauban - Vortex and Bastille

Saryn - Molt

We have all these abilities that confuse and disorient our stun our enemies for at least a short period of time. This is really just getting away from Frost's one trick pony setup. 

You shouldn't have to take a frost to defense. You should also have to spam snow globe to keep the objective alive. It is the emergency brake when you need one. Time to actually use more strategy/coordination and get away from the mindless lets just shoot.

[Otaiken]

The damage buff was not even remotely big enough to turn Frost into caster and the CC buff was not even remotely big enough to turn him into utility frame. And while Frost certainly has a lot of shields and armor, his extreme lack of speed combined with the globe nerf makes him squishier than Loki.

Edited February 6, 2014 by LocoWithGun

[Blazer-X]

No, they say 'Y u no cast Chaos, Nub?'.

 

Nyx has always been welcome on defense, because Chaos scales with everything.

More or less this. I mean, Nyx has been somewhat underestimated behind Frost and Vauban before the latter's Bastille nerf, but it was still welcomed in most defense games. Maybe some players were turned away because they don't understand that lower duration helps avoid "Power in Use" issues, but aside from that, I don't really remember Nyx being turned away for Defense.

[TankHunter678]

Let's take a look at  Zephyr.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Zephyr_(Warframe)

We have Turbulence. Which for those who don't like to click links redirect all incoming bullets. 

This is just a start. 

Mag - bullet attractor,

Nyx - Chaos

Loki - Radial Disarm

Vauban - Vortex and Bastille

Saryn - Molt

We have all these abilities that confuse and disorient our stun our enemies for at least a short period of time. This is really just getting away from Frost's one trick pony setup. 

You shouldn't have to take a frost to defense. You should also have to spam snow globe to keep the objective alive. It is the emergency brake when you need one. Time to actually use more strategy/coordination and get away from the mindless lets just shoot.

Mag's Bullet Attractor is an offensive buff, that is only good defensively on Heavy Gunners. It also only effects one target at a time.

 

Nyx's Chaos was one of the alternatives to Snowglobe already. Frost was one of the Kings of Defense, Nyx was the Queen.

 

Loki's Radial Disarm is one of the reasons he is regarded as a late game frame, the other reasons being he only has utility abilities that keep him alive and allow him to get into positions to strip enemies of their weapons. He was welcome on defense because he could neuter very dangerous enemies that would otherwise just blow them team away with their powerful weapons. It also disables the Grineer heavy units ground stomp. Loki was the Joker of Defense.

 

Vauban's Vortex and Bastille already made him one of the Kings of Defense, now that Frost has been nerfed, there is only one King remaining.

 

Saryn's Molt was as useful for defense as Loki's Decoy: Completely useless unless the targets were radial disarmed.

 

 

Frost's snowglobe was needed for high wave defense because enemy scaling gets a little nuts the closer it approaches level 40 and beyond, which basically means T3 Voids, Ceres, and Pluto. Frost simply does not have enough energy to spam snowglobes every 2 seconds, which is how long it takes for the snowglobe to die at this level.