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Frost: 2/5/2014


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Please no snowglobe.. Now its imposible to do higl lv def missions,.. No matter how good you are there will be 1greener who will shot at the pod, the shot will intantly destroy snowglobe and the pod altogether.. Frost went from usefull to useless now,the damage buff to his skills arent needed we need utility... !!!! Sry for english

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Ice Blast: Comparable to Ember's Fireball in casting time and result of impact/damage.

Avalanche: Increased casting speed and increased damage.

Snowglobe: Now has health that is increased with fusion (currently: 1500,2500,3000,3500)

Snowglobe being a solely duration based skill created issues of viability of other frames in the "Defense" mission types, as well as a skew towards pace of gameplay.

 

The goal is to get Snowglobe, and Frost overall, in a place of power and action, but does not render gameplay optional, but we need everyone's experiences to get it right as we continue to make changes. 

 

Please discuss below your experiences with Frost and how you would balance his abilities with these changes in mind, as well as prepare to return to this thread after the Update has been deployed with further feedback.

 

Thanks, Tenno.

 

Why is there nothing about Freeze? Nobody uses that ability since it's practically worthless. The damage is next to nothing and it's awkward to aim. If i have to remember how many times i've seen people (myself included) use Freeze, i would say around 3 people. It's that unimportant.

So why was it so important to try to dismantle the ability everyone uses because it's invaluable usefull, before fixing those abilities nobody ever uses?

 

Shouldn't it be your focus to make Frost as a whole work first, with all abilities, before you go making nerfs to the one ability everyone agrees on that it works well?

 

Freeze should do more damage and work more like small ice tornado comming from Frost's palm, having an area of effect infront of him, rather than a weak small beam that often won't hit anything.

 

Edit: Oh Rebecca you sneaky Nyx. Good i withdraw that comment.

 

The changes to Ice Blast and Avalanche sound good, but we have to see if they actualy make any difference.

 

So Snowglobe gets the Ironskin treatment? Does that mean snowglobe now has infinite time or will he still be duration based but with limited health ala Decoy?

On the other hand, does that mean we now can stack multiple snowglobes over each other.

 

The problem i see with this is that i can imagine this change will cause players to try to spam as many globes as possible over each other for maximum protection. Wouldn't 20 or so snowglobes in one place cause a lot of FPS issues?

 

Also i think this will make defence missions more difficult especialy on higher levels, so i see a high chance of a LOT of frustration there.

Putting health on an immovable defensive wall which can be attacked from EVERY direction is a sure fire way to make it break down constantly. Especialy when small mistakes are made and the globe is exposed to a direction the players thought was safe.

 

There are other nerfs you could do to it, if you think it's used too much (well it's used so much for a reason see your gameplay), but the health change sounds like something that will backfire a lot.

 

It doesn't feel right that you once again go to nerf popular abilities rather than finaly fix unpopular ones.

Edited by Othergrunty
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Uh, DE, if you're going to Nerf Snowglobe, then it is absolutely imperative that you buff the health of objectives we're supposed to defend.

 

Things like T3 Defense Crypods, the Cicero Injector, and other similar objects are just too darn squishy in the first place (which is why we felt so attracted to Snowglobe in the first place).

 

Those things need to not die in 3 seconds should anything look in its general direction. Seriously.

 

EDIT: Actually, buffing the health of the objective won't help either; because T3 stuff does way too stinking much damage, you could x10 the health and the stupid thing would "die" in a few seconds anyways.

 

No, what the objectives need is Damage Resistance. At least 80%.

Edited by Xylia
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Hyperion5182, on 05 Feb 2014 - 2:24 PM, said:

I'll have to look at the market. But i dont play these games because i have cash to burn. I play these games because they're free and they're good. I would pay if i could but sometimes its the difference on if i keep the heat running or not. =/

But you don't have to pay for platinum. All you have to do is find a player who has platinum and who wants a mod that you have, then you trade them the mod for platinum.
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Is that even possible!? *jocking*

Volt's actually not that bad nowadays, at lower levels, he can wipe out crowds with Overload, and the more people there are, the more it chains, and Shock is a pretty good CC as it stuns 5 enemies at a time and is pretty nice to spam, Electric Shield is meh, but it's still nice to use as a quick wall to hide behind or revive a teammate. Speed is really nice for rushing or getting to a teammate quickly, overall he is not that bad anymore after D2.0. Combined with Fleeting Expertise, Overload goes off very quickly and still goes while you jump down quicker, his 1 becomes extremely spammable, and his 2 and 3 become nice burst utility abilites for a quick sprint to somewhere, or a quick revive. Not something I would bring to high levels, but nice in early, mid, and low end games.

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I think its fair.

Vauban lost his ultimate CC Bastille

Rhino lost his Godmode

But Frost was still the number one against grineer and corpus defense.

New Snowglobe sounds fair, stronger Freeze and Avalanche also fair.

Rhino did not lose his godmode and he has 3 other good abilities

VB did not lose his ultimate CC

 

FORGET ABOUT SNOWGLOBE. Give him abilites that aren't garbage. Stop trying to make him into a damage frame and give him some utility. Hes an ice frame. Are you serious?

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You are aiming for Frost to be more a damage dealer.

But he WON'T be one.

Why? He's slow. He's the slowest frame (after Rhino gothis Vanguard) and he is simply made to stay in place and cast Snowglobes. Maybe run around a map every once in a while to cast Avalanche to kill ospreys and collect mods/resources.

You are taking away his main ability, his true ultimate and saying "Go kill stuff"

 

"It's like taking away wheels from a car and saying "Go fly"

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Hey everyone,

 

Making this post prior to U12 on PC's release (coming soon!), because as everything is coming together, there have been changes made to Frost's powers that ought to be shared and discussed for further review.

 

Changes:

Ice Blast: Comparable to Ember's Fireball in casting time and result of impact/damage.

Avalanche: Increased casting speed and increased damage.

Snowglobe: Now has health that is increased with fusion (currently: 1500,2500,3000,3500)

Snowglobe being a solely duration based skill created issues of viability of other frames in the "Defense" mission types, as well as a skew towards pace of gameplay.

 

The goal is to get Snowglobe, and Frost overall, in a place of power and action, but does not render gameplay optional, but we need everyone's experiences to get it right as we continue to make changes. 

 

Please discuss below your experiences with Frost and how you would balance his abilities with these changes in mind, as well as prepare to return to this thread after the Update has been deployed with further feedback.

 

Thanks, Tenno.

 

Clarification/FAQ 1: Will Strength Mods positively affect Snowglobes health after this change? Yes, they will!

 

You did nerf the snow globe really really hard. You should have replaced the "invulnerability" with a reduction of incoming dmg calculated by %.

 

Great job, now Frost and Frost prime are useless. Two frames screwed.

 

Also we did post MANY MANY MANY MANY times about the fact that damages of abilities should scale with the level of mobs or the level of your frame or whatever, so it is possible and useful to use 3 of frost abilities in a high lvl defense or survival mission.

 

I am disappointed. It seems that you did a quick fix to please the people who find the game too easy or broken. I'd prefer a better fix even if it meant waiting more.

 

I bet nobody or very few players will play Frost. Because of the stamina S#&$ and his abilities. Now Frost is slow and useless.

 

Thank you DEs...

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These changes are too minor / uninspired to actually help Frost out. In fact, I think he might become a tad too weak with these changes. His abilities (other than Snowglobe) need to have their effects greatly improved, while Snowglobe needs a nerf. But the nerf you have made would make it far too weak. What I would consider much better ideas (inspired by ideas from Volt_Cruelerz!):

 

- Freeze -

* Has an AoE-effect upon impact, which freezes all enemies caught in the 2/2,5/3/4 meter radius. Freezes all targets for 5/6/7/8 seconds or until either 10%/20%/30%/40% of their health or 100/200/300/400 has been dealt as damage, whichever is the greater amount. Bosses unfreeze upon taking any healthdamage and elites unfreeze upon taking half the standard amount of damage. * When an enemy is unfrozen, it is slowed down for a couple seconds afterwards as well.
Power Strength - Increased damage and increases the damage-taken-before-unfreezing-limits (New for limits)
Power Range - Increased effect radius (New!)
Power Duration - Increased freezing duration (Same as now)

 

- Ice Wave -

* Now slows down affected targets again! (100% reliable!)
* Now also pushes enemy targets in the wave direction! Maybe they should be pushed a set amount of range (Like, 5 meters) and/or to the end of the ice wave? That would be a good synergy with Snow Globe regardless (it can push them outside the Globe, which, if they are ranged enemies, makes them unable to shoot inside the globe!).
* The ice wave should also leave an icy path behind, which should serve as a prolonged defense in the form of slowing targets down which travels on it. I'd also give it something positive for your allies, like allies can slide on this path with no loss of forward momentum while on it!

* Maybe the wave/path could be widened a little bit more too?
Power Strength - Increased damage (Same as now)
Power Range - Increased width and distance (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increased path duration and enemy slowdown duration (New!)

 

- Snow Globe -
* Snow globe no longer invincible could be a dangerous move, but it CAN have health and still be very powerful in defensive measurements. So, rather than invincible it now becomes a series of ice plates in the shape of a dome. If an ice plate receives too much damage from enemy forces, it will shatter, leaving a hole. Dome is composed of 7 plates, each having 500/1000/2000/3000 health. Each unshattered plate will regenerate 10% of its maximum health per second, but when under fire, a given plate will regenerate at 3.3% of its maximum health per second. Globe rotates around its vertical axis at 2/2.1/2.2/2.3/2.4 RPM to help distribute damage.
* You and your allies should be able to shoot into the Snow Globe as well (no more dissynergy!), although maybe with a penalty on damage dealt? Like (30/25/20/15% damage reduction?)
* The size of the actual globe could also always remain the same even if you have Stretch equipped (Increased size on it is not always a good thing for its enemy range-blocking capabilities). Instead, with the Stretch-mod, its slowing effect could expand itself outside the globe (Although, this slow effect could be slowing enemies down by half as much as the sloweffect inside).
* The duration should proabably also scale with ranks, with its current 30 seconds being the max duration.
Power Strength - Increased ice plates' health and regeneration power (New!)
Power Range - Increases the radius of the outer slowing effect, but not the Globe size, and increases the spinning speed of the plates (New!)
Power Duration - Increased duration (Same as now)

 

- Avalanche -
* Should no longer be able to stagger enemies out from the freezing and damaging area of effect. I would actually change how the ability works a bit in general too:
* Instead of freezing enemies and then shattering them, it could instead leave enemies in their frozen state after the damage is dealt (although, if they die from the damage, they should still shatter).This freezing effect should be quite shortlasting (3/4/5/6 seconds) and should probably end early upon any health-damage taken (Or have similar restrictions to damage taken as Freeze does?)
* Avalanche should also leave a shortlasting icy area behind after the ability is performed, which slightly slows enemies down that steps on it. Let's say a duration of 5/6/7/8 seconds or so?
Power Strength - Increases damage (Same as now)
Power Range - Increases AoE radius (Same as now)
Power Duration - Increases freezing and ice area duration (New!)

Edited by Azamagon
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Ice Blast: Comparable to Ember's Fireball in casting time and result of impact/damage.

Fireball is already a failure. High re-cast delay preventing Ember from becoming proper burst DPS firemage spammer sorceress supreme, given its innately low damage and it's nigh-non-existent AoE. Et cetera.

Ice Blast (Freeze?) should be combined with Ice Wave to form an attack similar to Lech Krill : cone-shaped AoE which renders struck enemies incapacitated for a short period of time.

Second skill should be made into Ice Shield whereas Frost encases itself with something akin to Iron Skin.

Alternatively, Ice Lance, as an offensive projectile with impaling physics properties for the (chill)cool effect (forced pun is forced, I fail).

Avalanche: Increased casting speed and increased damage.

Would be better if it was made a specialty for hurting shielded enemies (corpus/corrupted), which is to say their shields, given its native elemental damage type.

Snowglobe: Now has health that is increased with fusion (currently: 1500,2500,3000,3500)

Snowglobe being a solely duration based skill created issues of viability of other frames in the "Defense" mission types, as well as a skew towards pace of gameplay.

What this results in essence is that people wouldn't want to have a Frost for long-run defences and that long-run defences in themselves may become unviable because enemies can 1-shot the pod, and at a 3500 damage cap the Snow Globe will shatter within three seconds (it'll probably take no more than 3 level 30 MOAs to drop it all the same).

If you seek viability for other frames, increase their usefulness and make the defence objective scale in health/shields to match enemies' incredible damage output so it doesn't die within three seconds of being under attack. 

The goal is to get Snowglobe, and Frost overall, in a place of power and action, but does not render gameplay optional, but we need everyone's experiences to get it right as we continue to make changes.

Then grant Snowglobe some better offensive capabilities (debuffs) to affect foes as to make it a desirable to be cast on several areas at once, rather than only on the defence objective.

And make Frost himself more offensive. 

Best Regards,

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Put him there? He always in that section. The fact that Snowglobe was carrying this frames viability was blinding people to the truth of this frame.  Now people can see that without Snowglobe this frame was truly ineffective and can now properly get supported for changes.

 

Like I said, a step towards fixing Frost altogether.

I was going to put him in the gutter but I am personally okay with the existence of niche frames and having frames excel in a particular area and be not as good in the rest. I do agree that Frost needed some work but he's in an even worse spot than before...
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Hmmm, I'll wait to try it, but...

 

As ever the DE explanation of the reasoning does not add up "It created issues of viability for other frames", do what now?

That is up there with "BOAR no longer fits the artstyle (but Strun does?) so we are removing it".

 

Also, whatever happened to "Buff not nerf"?

Is this really what comes out of the buffday sweep?

 

No offense, but a nerf is a nerf is a nerf, no matter what spin is added to the message.

 

Edit: Totally agree with OriKlein - if you want other frames to be viable in defence you need to change them or the mission structure.

An idea that has been around for several updates, is that the pod should be in a protected position, that can only be shot when the enemies get close.

Edited by Egg_Chen
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Oh boy... incoming rage when people realize snowglobe isn't the be all and end all of defense and that they'll have to find other ways to keep the pod safe.

That being said... I wonder if abilities like iron skin and snow globe should have some sort of sliding scale system, where the more damage they're receiving the higher their armor rating is. This would allow them to remain viable in high level gameplay.

Yeah and when people find new ways of doing high level defense DE is most likely going to remove those too. If it's not frost it's going to be Loki+Vauban+Trinity. Damage scaling on enemies means you have to stop the damage entirely or else you will lose in seconds.

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Nice!

Definitely a step in the right direction imo, as the invincible globe of IWin always seemed a bit odd to me.

 

Though the health does seem a bit low, I'll have to see how that works in game.

Even still I have faith that should it prove to be too low (ignoring all the tears), it will be improved.

Edited by GriM_AoD
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Frost definitely needs some love, but these changes (in my opinion) are counter-productive.

Frost is supposed to be crowd control/defence master, freezing and pretty much slowing/freezing anything alive at level. Attempting to beef up his damage output is just a complete opposite of what he's supposed to be (plus we have plenty enough of "one-button-to-rule-them-all-lol-aoe" nuke frames). Not to mention that these "awesome" beefed up skills will still do almost no damage against higher leveled mobs. 

 

What I think should be done instead:

1) Freeze should reliably disable enemies (preferably multiple targets at the same time) and what's the most important - frozen enemies shouldn't be instantly broken free once hit by stray bullet. Skill just absolutely must stay longer.

 

2) Ice Wave should either:

a) Leave some sort of ice trail, slowing any enemy stepping on it; OR

b) Deal a ton of damage and have significantly faster travel speed. It probably should stagger/knockback enemies as well.

 

3) Avalance should freeze every single enemy in aoe for a really long duration. Probably even debuffing armor or amplifying damage against frozen targets. Technically it'll look like Rhino Stomp...except more cool and enemies will explode into tiny ice bits on death.

 

About Snowglobe: 3500 health at max level (focus mods not included) is very, very low. High level enemies will literally chew through it in seconds. It either should have damage reduction, or I dunno...bullet reflection capabilities?

 

P.S. I don't mind nerf to Snowglobe as long as his other abilities have some actual usage against higher leveled enemies. If he's going to end up "kinda nuke sort of defence frame", he'll actually end up at old Mag tier (aka mostly useless).

Edited by Re6ellion
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The only thing I can see right about Snowglobe having HP is making it get destroyed only after it has taken a certain amount of shots, not HP, so it will be the same everywhere. So something like 100/200/300/400 shots, numbers can be adjusted, but you get the point.

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