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PrickleyPete

Update 7.x Weapon Balance Notes

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Latron Prime?!?!

 

 

I was about to say tha same.....

yea likewise...? why dont i have one of these :(

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This post isn't about the stat changes itself but the impalement change, it just looks ridiculous right now. When I kill an enemy with my Paris (love that bow!) they just lay down on their side mid-air, and stick to surfaces  as if I hit them from the side in their lower back.

This is immersion breaking for me and removes a lot of the fun using e.g. the Paris.

Also arrows won't stick to enemies if they die from elemental damage from said arrow, I would like this to change as watching an enemy get electrocuted with an arrow sticking out of his or her skull is immensely satisfying! (multishot ftw!) 

 

Not sure when this change was made, or why, but I'll post it here. 

 

That being said, thank you so much for this awesome game! I truly love it. :D

 

 

(Update) Seems only the Paris suffers from this effect, Boltor and Bolto has the proper impaling effect, don't know if it's a bug or intentional but I'd like it fixed/changed :)

Edited by Carnus
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Weapon Balance Changes (Update 7.x)

ALL WEAPONS:

Reduced Z Translation Spring values

STRUN / BOAR / BRONCO / HEK:

Tweaks to Recoil feel and Accuracy, generally sharper Rotation and Translation Springs, added Noise & better spread control when firing while aimed. Added force feedback to all firing sounds.

GORGON:

Tweaks to Recoil feel and Accuracy, sharper Rotation Spring, added Translation Spring, tuned Noise. Added force feedback to its firing sound.

BOLTO / AKBOLTO:

Added Recoil and Accuracy values. Derived a new projectile type for use with Akimbo model since projectile controls accuracy. Solo model is twice more accurate, akimo model has 2x fire rate (820 vs 410). Projectile speed increased from 40 to 65. Added force feedback to their firing sound.

BOLTOR:

Tweaks to Recoil feel and Accuracy values.Projectile speed increased from 60 to 65. Added force feedback to its firing sound.

LATO PRIME:

Tweaks to Recoil and Accuracy make it more in line with recent changes to base Lato model. Added force feedback to its firing sound.

SICARUS / BURSTON / KRAKEN:

Slight tweaks to base fire rate and/or recoil following the queued firing issue being fixed

-------

Rifles

-------

BRATON:

Damage now 17, was 16

MKI-BRATON:

Damage now 16, was 13 / Reload time now 2.2, was 2.37

BRATON VANDAL:

Damage now 18, was 20 / Crit Chance now 7.5%, was 5%

LATRON:

Damage now 36, was 30 / Reload time now 2.4, was 2.37 / Crit Chance now 7.5%, was 5%

SNIPETRON:

Damage now 115, was 100 / Reload time now 3.8, was 5

GORGON:

Damage now 24, was 25 / Reload time now 4.2, was 4

BURSTON:

Damage now 21, was 20

BOLTOR:

Reload time now 2.15, was 2.37

------------

Shotguns

------------

STRUN:

Damage per pellet now 14, was 12 / Reload time now 3, was 3.37 / Crit Chance now 7.5%, was 5%

BOAR:

Reload time now 2.3, was 2.37 / Fires 6 itterations, was 5

HEK:

Damage per pellet now 19, was 17 / Total number of pellets now 7, was 8 / Reload time now 2.15,

was 2 / Crit Chance now 2.5%, was 5%

--------

Pistols

--------

FURIS:

Damage now 14, was 12

AFURIS:

Damage now 14, was 12

KRAKEN:

Reload time now 2.1, was 2 / Damage now 45, was 50 / Crit Chance now 2.5%, was 5%

LEX:

Damage now 80, was 60 / Fire rate now 65, was 60 / Reload time now 2.35, was 2.5 / Crit Chance

now 15%, was 5%

BRONCO:

Total number of pellets now 7, was 8/ Reload time now 1.05, was 1 / Crit Chance now 2.5%, was 5%

LATO / AKLATO:

Damage now 24, was 23 / Crit Chance now 2.5%, was 5%

LATO PRIME:

Damage now 25, was 26

LATO VANDAL:

Damage now 27, was 31 / Crit Chance now 7.5%, was 5%

SICARUS:

Damage now 26, was 24 / Crit Chance now 10%, was 5%

VIPER:

Damage now 16, was 14 / Crit Chance now 15%, was 5% / Fire rate now 1150, was 1100 / Reload time now 1.1, was 1.15

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Braton Vandal still does 20 damage. Not 18.

Snipetron still does 100 damage. Not 115.

Snipetron reload is 5 seconds. Not 3.8 seconds.

Just tested in Terminus.

Also one I posted here before: Lex does 70 damage. Not 80.

Any more mistakes in these notes?

Edited by Inofor

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Braton Vandal still does 20 damage. Not 18.

Snipetron still does 100 damage. Not 115.

Just tested in Terminus.

 

Also one I posted here before: Lex does 70 damage. Not 80.

 

Any more mistakes in these notes?

 

The real question is: Which of these numbers is actually correct? To me it looks like we should just go by the numbers shown in game as barely any of these numbers seem to be correct at all.

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Braton is 17 damage.

Braton MK1 is 16 damage.

Latron is 36 damage.

Burston is 21 damage.

 

These are the ones I have verified so far. No idea about the crit rates.

 

I'm just trying to write all the errors down, since it might be that DE hasn't noticed that they didn't roll the buffs/nerfs out as intended. If they had noticed it, I suppose they'd have at least put up a disclaimer in this post that the values are wrong.

Edited by Inofor

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Really nice update DE team!  The new graphics in some of the levels!  Amazing!

 

There's an issue I noticed with host migration wiping out our kill stats, XP, resource and mod pickups.  It happened twice to me yesterday after the update.  Will you guys be working on that?  If it was an isolated case should I report that somewhere?

 

I'm happy there's new content every week and excited to see it's truly evolving!  Keep up the great work!

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Yes... Yes... Keep nerfing the HEK. Soon I'll be forced to put it away for good. Soon all shotguns will be terrible and have a maximum effective firing range of five feet.

 

On a side note, my favorite Space Revolver was buffed. Time to do some more Lex-only runs.

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Yes... Yes... Keep nerfing the HEK. Soon I'll be forced to put it away for good. Soon all shotguns will be terrible and have a maximum effective firing range of five feet.

 

On a side note, my favorite Space Revolver was buffed. Time to do some more Lex-only runs.

To be fair you shouldn't be able to snipe with a HEK more effectively than half of the long guns, but I'd still like to see a low-mid max range with a 10 round clip.  It would still be fun to use without pushing it over the top.

 

There's a lot of weapon balancing that still needs to be done, but right now could we please just get base crit/reload speed/crit damage for all weapons as it stands (in game or on forums, either way it'd be nice to know what the stats of our weapons are so we can mod accordingly)?

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Please remove the nerf from the Lato Prime. I'm not a founder of even the lowest rank but those people supported you making a game I play a fair amount of, let them eat cake.

 

Agreed. I don't have one either, but those Prime weapons should be better, not just 1 or 2 damage higher.

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This is incredibly disappointing. This is a PvE game that's supposed to be fast paced and fun and balance shouldn't be a high priority. The way to balance weapons that are outshined by others in a game like this is to buff all of the weaker guns so they're all good and it's a tough decision to which you want to choose. The only thing you do by nerfing the best weapon in each category is make everyone flock to what was the second best gun in that category before the nerf, thus making it the next "OP" gun and the nerf trend repeats itself. 

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To be fair you shouldn't be able to snipe with a HEK more effectively than half of the long guns, but I'd still like to see a low-mid max range with a 10 round clip.  It would still be fun to use without pushing it over the top.

 

There's a lot of weapon balancing that still needs to be done, but right now could we please just get base crit/reload speed/crit damage for all weapons as it stands (in game or on forums, either way it'd be nice to know what the stats of our weapons are so we can mod accordingly)?

 

this game needs this badly. there should be detailed stat pages for everything. not every little thing under the sun but at least the really important stuff. things that affect how we mod at the very least (and what exactly those mods do). hope they have plans to put this in at some point.

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This is incredibly disappointing. This is a PvE game that's supposed to be fast paced and fun and balance shouldn't be a high priority. The way to balance weapons that are outshined by others in a game like this is to buff all of the weaker guns so they're all good and it's a tough decision to which you want to choose. The only thing you do by nerfing the best weapon in each category is make everyone flock to what was the second best gun in that category before the nerf, thus making it the next "OP" gun and the nerf trend repeats itself. 

 

its not like the weapons exist in a vacuum. if you buff everything all the content becomes too easy. if you buff that player skill might not keep up. same problem if you nerf weps too hard.

 

every single game type ever needs balance. 

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That's why you don't over buff them and if the content is too easy then you just make the enemies harder where they need to be harder. 

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Agreed. I don't have one either, but those Prime weapons should be better, not just 1 or 2 damage higher.

 

you become a founder to support the game. that gear is just a bonus.

 

that being said....... man that nerf hurts. i dont even use mine but i liked how it stood out from the lato. now its just a different skin really. im ok with it one way or another but the cool factor did go down a fair bit.

 

edit: thinking more about it, it might have to do with the new clan stuff coming up that's suppose to be "competitive" in some way. in theory the vandal and prime stuff is the only gear you cant get anymore that is more powerful than their counterparts. 

 

im not sure how even an army of grand master founders would be that much better than any other player in this game. or how having a prime would make a bit of difference one way or another. but its the only thing i could think of in nerfing a weapon that wasnt even that bad to begin with.

 

just to keep people from crying up a storm with "P2W". not that some dont do this already anyways -__-

Edited by MetalGerbil

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prime is still op.  no need to buff damage or so.  coz of Polarity.  Prime has 2 Polarities instead of one.

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you become a founder to support the game. that gear is just a bonus.

Feel free to disagree but it's actually more of an incentive rather than a bonus, there's a big difference - just like Kickstarter rewards, I doubt so many people would actually "support" the game as you say if it didn't give a great deal on platinium and these exclusive weapons as a nice topping. The thing is, everything you purchase is supporting the game one way or the other regardless of what digital goods you get in return, it is a business after all, not a charity.

 

On another note, I still think exclusive weapons should stay exclusive especially if you've paid lots or earned them through certain events since otherwise nobody will bother with them again, but of course that's not asking for a "god mode" or anything "OP", only saying that it should be a "different" weapon. There's no such thing as P2W in a PVE Coop game especially since they abolished the "Pro system". As you said people will keep complaining about P2W because some think F2P business model is actually truly free when it's not the case in most games out there with the %70-80 of the game has content thats only accessible through some kind of a cash shop. Had a friend who'd call my Lex P2W simply because he started with a low level Lato and didn't like grinding.

 

PS: Sorry if that came off a bit aggressive, just had to speak out, kind of ticks me off when people always play this "supporting the game" card as if none of it really matters as long as the game thrives, why not just donate through paypal or something then, I'm sure they could work something out.

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Why are people so annoyed about these balance notes? Many of them aren't even actually in the game.

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prime is still op.  no need to buff damage or so.  coz of Polarity.  Prime has 2 Polarities instead of one.

^ this many times over... you get an extra 12 energy to use on the Prime and that on top of the already slightly higher damage can make a huge difference.

 

For people too lazy for math:

Lato with max mods:

-base: 52.8 -ap: 15.84 -fire: 47.52 -frost: 31.68

Prime with max mods:

-base: 59.4 -ap: 17.82 -fire: 53.46 -frost: 35.64

 

now there's an obvious difference that isn't insignificant between the two damage wise, and here's another thing to keep in mind... you can't use multishot + all the damage mods on the regular Lato, you have to drop 3 mod ranks on damage to do it... whereas with the Prime you can use all of them max rank and have 7 left over for something like +fire rate which would give you a 48% fire rate increase on top of everything else.

 

Oh and I still wish we had critical chance/critical damage/reload speed numbers for all weapons... please DE please... :(

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Just an informative note for those who use the term so liberally: OP means "overpowered", something that is supposed to be so very extremely powerful, prime examples for that would be the old HEK or Gorgon.

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^ this many times over... you get an extra 12 energy to use on the Prime and that on top of the already slightly higher damage can make a huge difference.

 

For people too lazy for math:

Lato with max mods:

-base: 52.8 -ap: 15.84 -fire: 47.52 -frost: 31.68

Prime with max mods:

-base: 59.4 -ap: 17.82 -fire: 53.46 -frost: 35.64

 

now there's an obvious difference that isn't insignificant between the two damage wise.

 

isnt insignificant doesn't mean significant either.

 

is it a game breaking difference?  are people that dont have a prime some how penalized or in any way hurt by this? does the game disproportionately reward players who run missions with a prime? is there content that you cant do unless you have a prime? can you kill things with significantly more speed with a prime as apposed to a lato? would a 20 minute mission be reduced to a 15 minute mission thanks to using a prime? can its role be fulfilled with some other weapon that all players have access to?

 

pulling out numbers and saying it is better does mean jack if the difference is minimal in actual play. 

 

does having a max firerate mod gain you anything on a lato prime considering you throw accuracy out the window and either have to be point blank range for headshots of just go for bodyshots?

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Why are people so annoyed about these balance notes? Many of them aren't even actually in the game.

 

thats the reason

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