Drop Table 2.0

[helosie]

Token system, Token System, Token System, Token System.

Why is this so hard to add into the void? No matter how many times you adjust, tweak and change the drop tables, We're going to keep bashing head first into the same ol' "Too many items, can't get what I want from the void."

[treb1e]

It's really frustrating to go through a void survival only to get credit caches and fusion cores. it makes no freaking sense, if I wanted those I wouldn't do missions in the void. Furthermore, while it MAY be ok to get those once in a while in a survival (not the case now, I got like 3 caches and 3 common or uncommon cores in a 40min t2 survival today) it is completely absurd to get such rewards in any other void mission.

 

Like someone already said, farming the keys is already enough, I can't really stomach finishing a capture mission only to get another void key (hey we heard you like void so we put some void keys in your void mission?), LET ALONE A CREDIT CACHE OR FUSION CORE.

 

People were already getting angry when they got forma bps. This only exacerbates the problem.

 

About the flow with the keys, that's the purpose of normal survival or defense, gives players who already have every mod a reason to do anything other than void.

 

So my suggestions would be:

 

-Leave credit caches and fusion core (but up their quality) only on void survival but GREATLY decrease their chance, they are FAR too common now

 

-Remove keys from the reward table. If you really must have them put them in defense or survival. At least those missions give a multiple chance for a wanted reward.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Prime reward -> Already has it -> OTHER PRIME REWARD -> Has it? -> Prime reward -> Has it? -> Alt reward if there's nothing to earn, or after some number of prime rolls? (To fix dilution)

Honestly, this sounds like the best way to fix the dilution to me.

[Shifted]

Hum,

 

Where's the explanation for the enormous collections of useless credit cache and the ratio between them and other things.

And seriously fusion common and 1 neurode aren't rewards either...

I'll take that neurode, thanks.

Better than nano spores or some other sh..alvage.

 

/sarcasm.. kinda.

[Reduxe]

It's pretty bad to go ahead and farm for hours on end for a specific key. What's even worst now is that we get credits (VERY low amount too) for something we worked hard towards. 

 

By adding more worthless rewards you guys worsened the pool even more. 

[GottFaust]

Token system, Token System, Token System, Token System.

Why is this so hard to add into the void? No matter how many times you adjust, tweak and change the drop tables, We're going to keep bashing head first into the same ol' "Too many items, can't get what I want from the void."

Quoted for truth.

The only way to salvage a drop-table-RNG system is by using exclusion.  You need to let only the items a player doesn't already have drop.  The current system is a step in that direction, but no one wants a common 3 fusion core or 2k credits.  You shouldn't just replace the item with some random low-end, low-ammount resource.  You need to replace it with a different item they don't already have.

For example: Players A, B, C, and D run a void mission that can drop all of the Latron Prime and Paris Prime parts.  Player A has a Latron Prime built and all but the Paris Prime String, Player B has the Receiver but not the whole Latron Prime but does have a Paris Prime, and Players C and D have none of the parts.  They are rewarded a Latron Prime Receiver.  The system detects that player A has the entire thing and move on to the Paris Prime drops.  It then detects that the player has everything except the stirng and gives them the string or a forma based on a new roll.  The system then detects that player B has the reciever, but not the rest of the parts and gives him one or a forma based on a new roll.  Players C and D are both given the Receiver as normal.

I fully understand that this ruins the whole 'equal drops' concept, but so does the current system.  I'd much rather get 48 more useless prime parts that I can sell for 3500 credits than 2k credits or a common 3 fusion core.  Furthermore: the drops will still be equal for all players in the mission who do not already have the initial drop rolled up by the system.  The drop inequality only kicks in when a player already has something.  This can be futher mitigated by following the same path through the drop tree for each player.  Check for the item in question.  If found move on to the same item for each player and check that.  That way if every player has the Latron Prime Receiver but not he Paris Prime String and the Latron Prime Reciever is rolled up, every player will instead get the Paris Prime String.  This is not a new concept, you've already implemented it on a 'global' scale in the Alert Cycle setup you have running now.

[SpilockT_T]

you better remove fusion cores and credit caches from the drop tables and resources. Why can't you people understand that getting keys is already too much of a hassle? IT'S NOT ENJOYABLE TO GET FUSION CORE AFTER SPENDING 2 HOURS FARMING A T3 EXTERMINATE KEY!

 

I'm expressing my anger through his words

[PrincessWhite]

I would like to remind of the fact that extra duplicates of prime weapon parts as well as prime frame blueprints can be sold for 3500 credits each. With taken into consideration, a 4000 credit cache is only marginally better than the 52th paris prime string or 29th dakra prime handle that you get, where as an u5 or n3 core is a straight up downgrade in terms of reward.

 

That aside, it shouldn't be difficult to understand that people will find it extremely upsetting to find extremely common things as an mission completion reward for Void Towers. There are already people who are quitting Tower Defense to get their key back rather than accepting the rather disappointing rewards.

[zerogear5]

I think making the credit reward higher or a credit bonus when you have all prime equipment in a void run would make it amazing. Fusion core packs would be a good thing as well make them rare but single cores is not cutting it at all.

[Ry0K3N]

The T3 def drop table is completly fubar. 

2 runs both until 40 waves and 1!! weapon part wich was a braton prime stock. The rest was S#&$ty cash and fusion cores.............

[PrincessWhite]

Another word of warning: This change really doesn't take the players feeling into consideration at all. Even if the effective drop rate for <rare component> has been increased in this update, there's no way for your average Warframe player to know about it unless if that person has read about this topic. I'd estimate that around 300-500 unique users will have read this topic by tomorrow, but even then it's still an minor percentage of the Warframes player base. Your average player is still going to thing "wow what were they smoking when they did this? I'm getting fusion cores from void capture, that's complete *****".

 

Trading the tower keys is also possible right now and there are people buying tower keys using plat. A person who just spent plat on a tower key is definitely going to be saying "wow what an ****ing ripoff" when they get an fusion core from finishing the mission.

[RebornsAlmark]

you better remove fusion cores and credit caches from the drop tables and resources. Why can't you people understand that getting keys is already too much of a hassle? IT'S NOT ENJOYABLE TO GET FUSION CORE AFTER SPENDING 2 HOURS FARMING A T3 EXTERMINATE KEY!

This, ten times over. The drop tables have just become even worst now that you can get a few extra hundred credits or a low amount of resources instead of a much sought after Prime part. If resources are going to be implemented into the void, let them be much sought-after resources such as Orokin Cells or Neural Sensors (and not just one rare resource reward either, that would be too little for one void key). Additionally, always wondered why don't OROKIN Cells drop in the OROKIN Void...?

Another possibility is to replace the caches and resources with Forma blueprints, I'd much rather get a Forma than a few thousand extra credits.

Edited February 6, 2014 by RebornsAlmark

[PCDeadman]

Ooooh I been trying to get a few parts from the void, VERY interested to try this out tonight. Reading through the changes it sounds like a step in the right direction 

Edited February 6, 2014 by PCDeadman

[helosie]

Here's a good solution:

Remove all Prime peices from the void/derelict, Replace those prime peices with "Ororkin Salvage".

Orokin Salvage can be taken to your clan dojo and used in researching prime weapons and frames, Basicly add in a new Lab for Orokin Research.

This will work much like normal clan research does, but instead of using fieldrons, detonite, and mass's, we use the Orokin salvage along with other mats to research prime equipment. Of course we can't make this too easy so you'll need a good amount of the orokin salvage to research and also to build said prime frames and weapons.

Completing any void/derelict will automaticly net you orokin salvage, the amount will be based on tier of the key, tier 1 giving you the lowest, while tier 3 granting you the highest.

 

Any positive input or suggestions are welcome.

Edited February 6, 2014 by helosie

[VKhaun]

Token system, Token System, Token System, Token System.

Why is this so hard to add into the void? No matter how many times you adjust, tweak and change the drop tables, We're going to keep bashing head first into the same ol' "Too many items, can't get what I want from the void."

 

Because then everyone adds up the total number of tokens to get everything and declares it an impossible grind. No reasonable amount of playtime will look reasonable when quantified in raw token form by players approaching a new system. You need to break it up so they're walking a few blocks a day and window shopping instead of telling them to trek across the city.

[.ERO.]

Yeah I ran 2 capture missions about 5 mins ago with no mission reward on both.

[Caernarvon]

Creds and cores as rewards.

Sleek.

[DMan]

Token system, Token System, Token System, Token System.

Why is this so hard to add into the void? No matter how many times you adjust, tweak and change the drop tables, We're going to keep bashing head first into the same ol' "Too many items, can't get what I want from the void."

Because they need to keep is so rare that people will just buy their prime packs or buy keys from other players with plat

[Xan-Diesel]

Thanks, Sheldon!

[Agent_of_Change]

I hope that cores and formas are not completely removed from the tables.  for the most part that's the only reason i got to the void anymore, especially the survival and now defenses 

[IIJetfireII]

Good to hear that drop tables are in re-work for 2.1, actually getting those cores weren't bad for me XD, but yeah others needed the main stuff and not cores at all, it would be appreciatable to see it normal again.

[LazerusKI]

erm...is it inteded that you can drop Keys in Keyruns?

Just got Mobile Defense 2 while running Mobile Defense 3...

[noneuklid]

Future proofing the void against additions, as resources/credits/fusion/key can be removed if/when there is something better. (There is a mother-load coming btw)

 

This isn't future-proofed.  It's been given some room to grow, but the problem will resurface.

 

The only future-proof version I can see is implementing a token, trade, "search," or Prime Component Crafting system.  Each of these do basically the same thing with different flavor.

 

• Token system : Void missions drop a currency that can be used to purchase Prime component items at Lotus-Mart.  The number of tokens per run can be fixed or random, but always has a floor greater than 0.  There are some legit 'marketing' concerns with this system, but it's fairly basic.

   

• "Search" system : Players may voluntarily elect to suspend the regular drop table rewards for a period of time, declaring (via UI) they are "searching" for a particular component.  They get a progress bar for this.  Each appropriate mission run until the progress bar is full rewards progress instead of an item.  When it's complete, they get the thing they were "searching" for automatically.  (This is best used in conjunction with a trade system or a way to up-value not doing it and continuing to collect random crap.)

   

• Prime Component Crafting : A fancier token system.

   

• Trading : Either PC or NPC market where component/other Void reward items can be swapped for one another or other useful things.  Even if it's primarily a PC market, non-player 'seeding' will probably need to be done time to time to address global streaks (but this can be handled fairly invisibly).

 

I want to clarify that we're certainly both aware you can expand the drop tables of the current system indefinitely by adding additional mission types or additional tiers.  That's fine too, but it does continually serve as a more rigid barrier than the systems above.

Edited February 6, 2014 by noneuklid

[ntyd1s]

How about we never get a component of the stuff we are taking into that mission? (e.g. Bring EMBER PRIME with DAKRA PRIME to T2 Exterminate and reward will only be either FORMA BLUEPRINT or FROST PRIME CHASSIS BLUEPRINT)

 

This approach can reduce cases of repeated frustration, allows more reward dilution as the random pool will shrink and encourages team preparation.

[Egg_Chen]

Thanks for the communication Sheldon, but...

 

Fusion cores, as Void rewards, really?

Is it 1st April?

 

Also, sorry to bring this up, but could you double check Forma % chance.

All of a sudden its become freaking rare again!