February 7Th: Community Hot Topics!

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Dont address it! This is the living solar system you promised and you delivered!

 

It's strange that people now instead of trying to fix this themselves by fighting back are now just asking you to change this system.

It seems like people are riding the loot wave so if loot will be involved there will always be a problem. More loot is not going to solve anything because it just means the wave will go where the loot is.

90% of people are fighting for the grineer either because they want the detron or grineer offer better rewards (but mostly because they want the detron).

 

It's not a problem the players created, it's a lack of foresight from DE. Just give it up, anyone who has bothered to look at the solar system can see there's a major imbalance here.

[XenosInfinity]

In regards to Frost, for example, moderate increases to other abilities don't outweigh crippling the one that made the Frame excel within its role. It's not competitive with other frames in speed, durability, CC, or offense, or defense for that matter. So exactly what purpose is the frame meant to serve now? Hint, it no longer has one.

Having actually messed around with my Frost Prime, I can't agree with that. If you stop trying to mod it for snowglobe use and focus on efficiency and strength with a little range, it's actually extremely powerful, especially against shielded enemies like the Corpus - and Avalanche's freeze effect makes it pretty good at crowd control, too.

 

Also it locks Oxium Ospreys in place, preventing them from divebombing you.

 

Frost is competitive, but not for what it used to be competitive at. It doesn't need to hide any more.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Frost is competitive, but not for what it used to be competitive at. It doesn't need to hide any more.

You're right, frost lost what was unique to him: Being one of the few non damage focused frames.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

The proc chance of ALL multi-pellet weapons got nerfed to oblivion.  We're talking about 1% chance to proc if even regardless of what % is displayed on the loadout screen.  That's every shotgun, detron, brakk and secondary that fits this category.  They're useless for procs now and many of us slapped a catalyst and 5 formas on them to use the procs since shotguns with falloff are way more ineffective than pretty much every other weapon to take out stuff past level 40.

That sounds more like a bug to me.

Though my boar prime seems to proc tolerably well? At least, I haven't noticed it not procing at all?

[Mak_Gohae]

90% of people are fighting for the grineer either because they want the detron or grineer offer better rewards (but mostly because they want the detron).

 

It's not a problem the players created, it's a lack of foresight from DE. Just give it up, anyone who has bothered to look at the solar system can see there's a major imbalance here.

 

Where did that number come from?

I was in an invasion mission where 2 of the 4 members ignored Zanuka and his drops even after i told them he actually dropped parts. I think it's very unlikely that those two dudes had a detron. I think it's very unlikely the number is 90%.

 

This is in fact player created. After you get your mark you dont need to continue to fight Grineer, you just have to wait until the Harvester pops for you. You can go ahead and do whatever you want at that point.

 

DE didnt do anything but provide that option that people went wild with. This shouldn't be happening at all, this strictly people going nutty without putting any thought on their actions.

[jinsaotomex4]

That sounds more like a bug to me.

Though my boar prime seems to proc tolerably well? At least, I haven't noticed it not procing at all?

 

Boar Prime fortunately has a bit higher proc/pellet percent than most other guns at 4.44% base IIRC but the proc rate for shotguns is way, way down in the gutter.  I did a few runs with my Boar Prime and it procs more than the Drakgoon but nothing to write home about sadly.

I did 5 invasions earlier with my Drakgoon for the catalyst and got 3 slash procs and 1 radiation proc total. 

 

Also procs on the Tysis appear and disappear almost instantly making them hard to notice after the effect's already been applied.

[(PSN)molnizzle]

Continuous Fire Weapons

The request for continuous fire weapons to be reverted back to showing a ‘damage number fountain’ is a double sided argument. Some players enjoy the new ‘condensed damage number fountain’ and some player’s want it reverted. So where is the middle ground? The reasoning behind the change was to make it more obvious for players who are applying damage mods, as it’s easier to notice that numbers are 5% larger in magnitude vs being generated 5% faster.

The satisfaction of seeing numbers fly while using continuous fire weapons is what’s being missed. Feedback and suggestions have been noted.

 

Are you f#*%ing kidding me?

 

That's not what people are upset about at all.

 

Read:

 

Continuous Weapons

Wait, what did you just say here? "The satisfaction of seeing numbers fly while using continuous fire weapons is what’s being missed."

...

No, it's the fact that you broke the frikkin crap out of them (such as proc and damage delays, for example)! Wow, seriously, are you guys taking us for complete and utter fools? Or are you just intentionally ignoring what we ACTUALLY are saying to you?

 

and

 

actually the display is fine, the MAIN problem with the current one is that continuous damage isnt applied continuously, it's in chunks(of 1/3secs) now. if there is someway to have a condensed number AND have damage applied continuously, per tick instead of per 1/3secs, that would be ideal.

 

I don't even play on PC and I know about this. How could it be that DE is still completely in the dark? This company's ineptitude never ceases to amaze me.

 

I just want this hotfixed before they push U12 to PS4...

[Targus100]

Having actually messed around with my Frost Prime, I can't agree with that. If you stop trying to mod it for snowglobe use and focus on efficiency and strength with a little range, it's actually extremely powerful, especially against shielded enemies like the Corpus - and Avalanche's freeze effect makes it pretty good at crowd control, too.

 

Also it locks Oxium Ospreys in place, preventing them from divebombing you.

 

Frost is competitive, but not for what it used to be competitive at. It doesn't need to hide any more.

^

 

This.

 

Snowglobe still works fine in the relm of things everyone is doing anyways. So declaring it a nerf because 10-15% cant do 100+ wave defense or 60+ min survival, foolish.

 

For those wondering why Nova hasnt been nerfed, its not invulnerability! :D

 

 

Trinity....eyeballin you for next changes...

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Where did that number come from?

It was an estimate/random number. It was there to represent the fact that corpus are going away.

 

I was in an invasion mission where 2 of the 4 members ignored Zanuka and his drops even after i told them he actually dropped parts. I think it's very unlikely that those two dudes had a detron. I think it's very unlikely the number is 90%.

Anecdotal evidence. In that case, I've talked to over 30 players, all who really really want the detron.

 

This is in fact player created. After you get your mark you dont need to continue to fight Grineer, you just have to wait until the Harvester pops for you. You can go ahead and do whatever you want at that point.

Invasions have a higher chance (supposedly) to spawn him. So yes, people will take whatever is the highest possible chance to spawn the harvester. Again, this is DE created, not player created.

 

DE didnt do anything but provide that option that people went wild with. This shouldn't be happening at all, this strictly people going nutty without putting any thought on their actions.

...And that's exactly what I mean, DE created this. If they had done nothing with the harvester, it'd still be fairly balanced.

 

Seriously, this was created by DE because of the detron, not the players.

 

 

 

 

[WarOverlord]

It was an estimate/random number. It was there to represent the fact that corpus are going away.

 

Anecdotal evidence. In that case, I've talked to over 30 players, all who really really want the detron.

 

Invasions have a higher chance (supposedly) to spawn him. So yes, people will take whatever is the highest possible chance to spawn the harvester. Again, this is DE created, not player created.

 

...And that's exactly what I mean, DE created this. If they had done nothing with the harvester, it'd still be fairly balanced.

 

Seriously, this was created by DE because of the detron, not the players.

And when the grineer headhunter that drops the brakk is introduced, things will sort of balance out.

They just need to redo corpus rewards a little bit afterward.

[Mak_Gohae]

It was an estimate/random number. It was there to represent the fact that corpus are going away.

 

 

Then just say that it seems like most people are doing X thing based on this because we dont actually know. 

 

Anecdotal evidence. In that case, I've talked to over 30 players, all who really really want the detron.

 

The point is that there are people in the game that dont care at all about this.

2 out of 4 is 50%, you can have 30 people that want that but there could be 30 other that dont care.

So this says that there is a specific population going for this and it's not almost the whole population.

 

Invasions have a higher chance (supposedly) to spawn him. So yes, people will take whatever is the highest possible chance to spawn the harvester. Again, this is DE created, not player created.

 

Did DE state this or was this, wait for it, player created?

Im going to say this was player created. Could turn out to be true but as of this moment i dont think we have any hard data on this. This just sound more like random people piling on invasion that are already marked.

 

...And that's exactly what I mean, DE created this. If they had done nothing with the harvester, it'd still be fairly balanced.

 

Seriously, this was created by DE because of the detron, not the players.

 

Nope, they gave the option to get the gun, they didnt say, "OK now go on that clear the SS of Corpus." Nope.

This guy is the Corpus version of the Stalker, all you need to do is get a mark and wait for it. All this extra craziness is straight up player created madness that is not needed.

 

And if DE contributes to this they are just shooting themselves in the foot because they are now making parts of the game that just focus on a specific group of people going nutty.

 

They should let the players solve this. Now that Oxium is needed for a frame there is a perfect counter balance for this, we need Corpus missions for the fame so now the "balance" the Tenno keep has to really come into play. If we really want this frame we are going to have to start backing some Corpus missions.

 

If this doesnt create a solution then nothing will.

[WarOverlord]

Then just say that it seems like most people are doing X thing based on this because we dont actually know. 

 

 

The point is that there are people in the game that dont care at all about this.

2 out of 4 is 50%, you can have 30 people that want that but there could be 30 other that dont care.

So this says that there is a specific population going for this and it's not almost the whole population.

 

 

Did DE state this or was this, wait for it, player created?

Im going to say this was player created. Could turn out to be true but as of this moment i dont think we have any hard data on this. This just sound more like random people piling on invasion that are already marked.

 

 

Nope, they gave the option to get the gun, they didnt say, "OK now go on that clear the SS of Corpus." Nope.

This guy is the Corpus version of the Stalker, all you need to do is get a mark and wait for it. All this extra craziness is straight up player created madness that is not needed.

 

And if DE contributes to this they are just shooting themselves in the foot because they are now making parts of the game that just focus on a specific group of people going nutty.

 

They should let the players solve this. Now that Oxium is needed for a frame there is a perfect counter balance for this, we need Corpus missions for the fame so now the "balance" the Tenno keep has to really come into play. If we really want this frame we are going to have to start backing some Corpus missions.

 

If this doesnt create a solution then nothing will.

You know, you can also fight corpus in, wait for it, invasions!!

Even MORE reasons to support the grineer.

[Darkmoone1]

You know, you can also fight corpus in, wait for it, invasions!!

Even MORE reasons to support the grineer.

And with that logic the Corpus become extinct. Way to go community. :D

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Anecdotal evidence. In that case, I've talked to over 30 players, all who really really want the detron.

Make it thirty one. The sole reason I've been doing grineer invasions is to get the Detron. Once I've got it I'll be going right back to supporting the greedy milk cartons like I have been after Gravidus, now that there's no Tenno lives at stake.

(Exception for times when the grineer offer potatos/cells and the corpus offer credits.)

[dragonkingdx]

I think I good solution to balance frosts snow globe would to be to do something similar to vaubans bastille.

 

Why not make the HP values lower and make it so its HP means how many shots it can block. (1 bullet=1hp) Seems reasonable doesn't it? Since its similar to vauban having a limit of opponents it can hold. IE number of enemies held=bullets globe can take. Then it has both a duration time and a destruction value. That which makes it so if your not killing fast enough you can lose it. (due to mass of bullets and damage) Heck even change the damage to the globe based on enemy damage type. Example being: explosions do a bit more as they can damage inside, (5-10 damage), shotgun damage (5 HP), and even opponents that get inside do DPS to the globe (2 damage per enemy per sec/infested like 5-6 per sec) for entering it while the normal effects of being inside the globe take place.

 

With this it makes choosing your opponent on your own necessary to make sure you hold out on your own. Or when it comes to the terms of defense missions it makes it harder when you have 40-80 opponents trying to take it down at once. (a bit flawed there due to the factor of other players) With this you have both a duration time and a HP amount. The HP values would need a bit of reworking so it isnt too strong, but strong enough to survive the 30-60 area for a decent portion of time. As if you try to base it on the frosts armor rating that will be significantly useless when it comes to the end tiers as they will shred through that pretty fast with the sheer amount of fire from multiple opponents on the globe.

Edited February 8, 2014 by dragonkingdx

[(PSN)molnizzle]

All this extra craziness is straight up player created madness that is not needed.

 

 

...and that "madness" is always going to be the result of mechanics like this, so DE should have known better before choosing to make the Harvester spawn the way it does. Thats the bottom line. Players are always going to go after the best loot they don't have in the most efficient manner possible. Whether or not they should is completely irrelevant -- they do. It is what it is, and DE should know that.

[Taranis49]

Having actually messed around with my Frost Prime, I can't agree with that. If you stop trying to mod it for snowglobe use and focus on efficiency and strength with a little range, it's actually extremely powerful, especially against shielded enemies like the Corpus - and Avalanche's freeze effect makes it pretty good at crowd control, too.

 

Also it locks Oxium Ospreys in place, preventing them from divebombing you.

 

Frost is competitive, but not for what it used to be competitive at. It doesn't need to hide any more.

 

Except for the small fact that Mag's far more effective against shielded enemies (and at greater ranges) due to polarize which also has a lower cost.

 

And Chaos, Radial Blind, and Stomp (and those are just off the top of my head) are better at the CC game, again, at greater range and in two-thirds of those cases, again, with a lower cost to boot.

 

So tell me in what category is Frost supposed to be competitive at? Because it's not nuking and it's not CC, other frames easily outclass it in those categories... and indeed, it's currently outlcassed in every category by some other frame.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Taranis49

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 

The point is that there are people in the game that dont care at all about this.

2 out of 4 is 50%, you can have 30 people that want that but there could be 30 other that dont care.

So this says that there is a specific population going for this and it's not almost the whole population.

Anecdotal evidence means nothing, something you don't understand. Got it? Good. And for all we know, those are the only 2 people in the world that don't care.

 

Did DE state this or was this, wait for it, player created?

Im going to say this was player created. Could turn out to be true but as of this moment i dont think we have any hard data on this. This just sound more like random people piling on invasion that are already marked.

Bit of both actually. DE hasn't given proper info on spawn rates, so players using anecdotal experience say things that may or may not be true, and DE won't confirm one way or the other.

 

Nope, they gave the option to get the gun, they didnt say, "OK now go on that clear the SS of Corpus." Nope.

This guy is the Corpus version of the Stalker, all you need to do is get a mark and wait for it. All this extra craziness is straight up player created madness that is not needed.

It would take a completely oblivious person to miss what the detron would do. Seriously, force people to support X faction to get Y gun, how can anyone miss what that'll do, especially a popular gun like the detron.

 

And if DE contributes to this they are just shooting themselves in the foot because they are now making parts of the game that just focus on a specific group of people going nutty.

No, they're simply fixing the problem they started.

 

They should let the players solve this. Now that Oxium is needed for a frame there is a perfect counter balance for this, we need Corpus missions for the fame so now the "balance" the Tenno keep has to really come into play. If we really want this frame we are going to have to start backing some Corpus missions.

 

If this doesnt create a solution then nothing will.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, too funny, Oxium is not the perfect solution, you can get that in any corpus mission i.e. supporting grineer when they attack/are attacked (which also gives you more chances for the detron).

 

Get it? DE messed up, just admit it already. No wait, you won't do that, So F*** it, if you won't listen to common sense and just want to keep spewing "Leave DE alone!" nonsense, then I'm done. It's obvious to everyone but you (including DE) that DE made a mistake.

Edited February 8, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Taranis49]

Make it thirty one. The sole reason I've been doing grineer invasions is to get the Detron. Once I've got it I'll be going right back to supporting the greedy milk cartons like I have been after Gravidus, now that there's no Tenno lives at stake.

(Exception for times when the grineer offer potatos/cells and the corpus offer credits.)

 

Go ahead and make it thirty two; same boat. I supported the Grineer during invasions right up until I got the Detron, then I turned right around and started giving them radioactive/corrosive buckshot facials - they look better for it too.  :-P

[Mak_Gohae]

You know, you can also fight corpus in, wait for it, invasions!!

Even MORE reasons to support the grineer.

 

What are you answering to?

 

 

...and that "madness" is always going to be the result of mechanics like this, so DE should have known better before choosing to make the Harvester spawn the way it does. Thats the bottom line. Players are always going to go after the best loot they don't have in the most efficient manner possible. Whether or not they should is completely irrelevant -- they do. It is what it is, and DE should know that.

 

No, this madness results from madness. All you need to do, again, if pop up one mark and wait for the thing to spawn. There is no reason to do more than one mark.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

What are you answering to?

Your thing about oxium being equal to the detron. Because it's not.

[(PSN)molnizzle]

No, this madness results from madness. All you need to do, again, if pop up one mark and wait for the thing to spawn. There is no reason to do more than one mark.

 

...that we know of. It's possible that the spawn chance is higher in Invasion missions, yes? Well then, better safe than sorry.

 

How do you not understand that? This is basic game design.

[Mak_Gohae]

Anecdotal evidence means nothing, something you don't understand. Got it? Good. And for all we know, those are the only 2 people in the world that don't care.

 

 

OK so the 90% means nothing.

 

Bit of both actually. DE hasn't given proper info on spawn rates, so players using anecdotal experience say things that may or may not be true, and DE won't confirm one way or the other.

 

If anecdotal evidence means nothing, as you say, why are people using it?

 

DE not giving exact info means that, ta-da, the "problem" was player created.

Some one came up with some theory then everyone went madly following it.

 

It would take a completely oblivious person to miss what the detron would do. Seriously, force people to support X faction to get Y gun, how can anyone miss what that'll do, especially a popular gun like the detron.

 

When did the Detron become popular?

Getting the gun doesnt consist of you doing every single invasion in the Grineer side. All you need to do is get a mark and go on with whatever else.

 

With people screaming about his low spawn rate and seeing how quickly nodes go there is really a serious disconnect on how people are going about this and THIS is the problem.

 

No, they're simply fixing the problem they started.

 

They are feeding a problem which is bad.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA, too funny, Oxium is not the perfect solution, you can get that in any corpus mission i.e. supporting grineer when they attack/are attacked (which also gives you more chances for the detron).

 

 

 Yes, because the four Oxium you get from doing any mission that is not a defense/survival is reeeeeeally going to put a dent on that research.....

 

By the way, no it's not.

Well, if you plan is getting Zephyr by 2015 you probably have a point, i'll give you that.

 

Now, for the people that actually want to get this frame withing a respectable time.... you need to start protecting the places where one can get a good number of drops and trying to take over others.

 

This is really the perfect solutions for this.

 

 

 

Get it? DE messed up, just admit it already. No wait, you won't do that, So F*** it, if you won't listen to common sense and just want to keep spewing "Leave DE alone!" nonsense, then I'm done. It's obvious to everyone but you (including DE) that DE made a mistake.

 

Im not saying to leave DE alone i am saying we should think about how to solve this "problem" a bit before using the same exact factors that caused the  "problem" in the first place again.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

OK so the 90% means nothing.

Actually no, because the grineer are slowly taking over the solar system. Therefore, a large amount of people are supporting the grineer.

 

If anecdotal evidence means nothing, as you say, why are people using it?

 

DE not giving exact info means that, ta-da, the "problem" was player created.

Some one came up with some theory then everyone went madly following it.

1. Because people don't know better, and that's the only evidence they have.

 

2. HAHA, I love how you try and push a problem on DE's end (poor communication regarding the harvester) onto the players. If DE said "this is how you spawn him, and he spawns in these missions", everything would be crystal clear.

 

When did the Detron become popular?

Getting the gun doesnt consist of you doing every single invasion in the Grineer side. All you need to do is get a mark and go on with whatever else.

The detron was popular from the start.

 

And again, supposedly invasions have a higher chance to spawn him. Is it true? No one but DE knows, but that's the rumor.

 

They are feeding a problem which is bad.

No, they're fixing the problem. Big difference.

 

 

Yes, because the four Oxium you get from doing any mission that is not a defense/survival is reeeeeeally going to put a dent on that research.....

 

By the way, no it's not.

Well, if you plan is getting Zephyr by 2015 you probably have a point, i'll give you that.

 

Now, for the people that actually want to get this frame withing a respectable time.... you need to start protecting the places where one can get a good number of drops and trying to take over others.

1. You get oxium for siding with the grineer (oxium drones spawn)

 

2. Plenty of large clans already have zephyr's research well along the way.

 

3. See above. You're full of nonsense, and have no proof to back it up. If each part of zephyr's research takes 2k, and you have a clan of 1k people, each person needs... 8 oxium, which using your number, means 2 runs of a non survival/defense mission aka an invasion. Hell, 500 people means each needs to put in 16, which means 4 runs, that's nothing.

 

This is really the perfect solutions for this.

See above, it's not, and even DE says so, what more do you want?

 

Im not saying to leave DE alone i am saying we should think about how to solve this "problem" a bit before using the same exact factors that caused the  "problem" in the first place again.

The best way to solve the problem is either changing how a harvester mark is gained (say, only from corpus bosses), adding to clan research, or adding something of equal value that can only be gained by fighting for the corpus (i.e. a grineer stalker). Oxium fits none of those, because you can get it by fighting on the grineer's side.

[Mak_Gohae]

Actually no, because the grineer are slowly taking over the solar system. Therefore, a large amount of people are supporting the grineer.

 

You have no idea at all about the number of the population going for the Detron.

It's more likely that there is a constant number of people, which could be very small, that always contributes that gives the extra push needed by the standard number of people siding with the Grineer that have nothing to do with the Detron. 

 

 

1. Because people don't know better, and that's the only evidence they have.

 

2. HAHA, I love how you try and push a problem on DE's end (poor communication regarding the harvester) onto the players. If DE said "this is how you spawn him, and he spawns in these missions", everything would be crystal clear.

 

Correct, this is a player created problem.

 

The detron was popular from the start.

 

And again, supposedly invasions have a higher chance to spawn him. Is it true? No one but DE knows, but that's the rumor.

 

No, they're fixing the problem. Big difference.

 

the detron is as "popular" as the Brakk, it's just a gun some people want.

 

And if this thing created a problem how will the same thing that created the problem thrown on the opposite side will solve it?

 

1. You get oxium for siding with the grineer (oxium drones spawn)

 

2. Plenty of large clans already have zephyr's research well along the way.

 

3. See above. You're full of nonsense, and have no proof to back it up. If each part of zephyr's research takes 2k, and you have a clan of 1k people, each person needs... 8 oxium, which using your number, means 2 runs of a non survival/defense mission aka an invasion. Hell, 500 people means each needs to put in 16, which means 4 runs, that's nothing.

 

Interesting that you ignored the 20k starting research cost.

Also interesting is that apparently you think that everyone is playing in a 1k clan where all 1k members are active and all are contributing while at the same time all going for the Detron.

 

That uh...... that's some very specific example.

 

The best way to solve the problem is either changing how a harvester mark is gained (say, only from corpus bosses), adding to clan research, or adding something of equal value that can only be gained by fighting for the corpus (i.e. a grineer stalker). Oxium fits none of those, because you can get it by fighting on the grineer's side.

 

The best is a neutral marker because getting loot from an opposite mark (doing a Grineer Harvester) is not going to solve anything at all.