Release Excalibur, Lato, Skana Prime To Public, Give Founders Something Else.

[RyojinOrion]

Honestly, I think the exclusive items should be tradeable, but I don't think they should be released again. DE said they wouldn't be making a return, and I think they should keep their word, no matter what the whiners who missed out say. There was plenty of time to grab it, and plenty of warning when it was going to end. If you missed it, you missed it. Deal with it.

 

Also, I'd like to note that making that stuff available while giving founders other exclusive stuff is no solution at all, as people will still be whining that there is stuff they can't get anymore.

 

 

 

 

I wish I had something better to do than argue this point again... But I have no life and nothing else to do. :/

Edited March 5, 2014 by RyojinOrion

[Valiant]

no, they aren't increasing in value. but someone who DID NOT MEET THE DEADLINE now has theoretical access to content that has been sealed since november 1st. meaning that although they MISSED THE DEADLINE, they STILL have gained access to something that was promised exclusivity to those who paid for it on, or before November 1st.

 

that, goes directly against what was advertised from DE regarding founders access.

 

so, opening these LIMITED PAID ACCESS items for trade, or REDISTRIBUTION would constitute as false advertising.  mmmm smell the lawsuits coming.

The reason I'm suggesting trade is because if they wish to find a loophole, one will be found, and to avoid that trading would be the best solution or for that to somehow be the loophole. 

[ObviousLee]

The reason I'm suggesting trade is because if they wish to find a loophole, one will be found, and to avoid that trading would be the best solution or for that to somehow be the loophole. 

so you're saying that you're actually offering DE a way to screw people over by finding a "loophole" that lets them escape legal backlash? sorry but i am honestly insulted that you would actively look for a way to screw people over.

[LukeAura]

It seems the problem is more that they can't buff the founder items after closing the founder program because that would make people feel cheated. If they'd be in the wrong for breaking the contract for the founders then changing the contract after they've closed the deal for the nonbuyers would also be foul play. 
If they were made awesome while it was open people would have then bought in to the program that wouldn't have otherwise. 

So more or less this really shouldn't be about missing out on them but that their limited now to being mostly lacklustre cosmetic items and how to solve that problem without going against any word they've made before. 

Trading is a good solution, a limited number, but can be put in circulation. 
"Exclusive to people who bought the founders pack." But they never said the founders wouldn't be able to give them to other people if they wanted to. 

 

[SaintLucifer]

Honestly i would not mind if they just released without giving us anything else, just think of it as a "pre release" thing, the founder had like a year to try it before everyone else and now they can just release to all.

[Yezzik]

mmmm smell the lawsuits coming.

 

If that were truly the case, then nothing could ever be sold as part of a sale, as people would buy it off-sale and then sue the company afterwards for changing the terms of the purchase. The deal is done--a new deal is a new deal, a new contract a new contract. It's like ex post facto law--changing the rules to make someone a criminal retroactively.

[RyojinOrion]

"Exclusive to people who bought the founders pack." But they never said the founders wouldn't be able to give them to other people if they wanted to.

 

 

 

Although I agree that they should be able to be traded, I gotta say... 'Exclusive to people who bought the founders pack' means that only those who bought the founders pack could have them. Unless the meaning of 'exclusive' changed while I wasn't looking, of course. :p

Edited March 5, 2014 by RyojinOrion

[Valiant]

so you're saying that you're actually offering DE a way to screw people over by finding a "loophole" that lets them escape legal backlash? sorry but i am honestly insulted that you would actively look for a way to screw people over.

Nope, what I'm saying is that a way will actually be found regardless of my input which is why I am taking a step back stating 'Right, if you're going to do this anyways, maybe this should be considered' rather than 'Spend xx for the goods' or 'Added to the Void' which is screwing people over. However, again it's still not screwing people over. The people who paid, like me and you, would ultimately have a choice as to what we do with our items, DE would not be forcing us to trade our goods.

 

If DE came out now and made a public announcement stating they would never ever be making a return I would not bother suggesting anything or compromising, there would be no concerns at all. Finally a very clear and firm statement would be made and the complaints will be pointless. They have not though - no pinned topic about it or something in news in announcements - which is part of the problem. The only points we have thus far to rely on is the advertisement wording and the livestream comment made.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Naith

[ObviousLee]

It seems the problem is more that they can't buff the founder items after closing the founder program because that would make people feel cheated. If they'd be in the wrong for breaking the contract for the founders then changing the contract after they've closed the deal for the nonbuyers would also be foul play. 

If they were made awesome while it was open people would have then bought in to the program that wouldn't have otherwise. 

So more or less this really shouldn't be about missing out on them but that their limited now to being mostly lacklustre cosmetic items and how to solve that problem without going against any word they've made before. 

Trading is a good solution, a limited number, but can be put in circulation. 

"Exclusive to people who bought the founders pack." But they never said the founders wouldn't be able to give them to other people if they wanted to. 

 

no, they said you will not be able to ever get these items again, after november 1st, is what they said. and they meant everybody.

[LukeAura]

Although I agree that they should be able to be traded, I gotta say... 'Exclusive to people who bought the founders pack' means that only those who bought the founders pack could have them. Unless the meaning of 'exclusive' changed while I wasn't looking, of course. :p

Exclusive is delightfully vague in truth. Everything is technically exclusive, no matter how free it may seem.

If its handed out to people under a specific circumstance, then its exclusive. What they choose to do with it forward doesn't deny it that exclusivity. The legal binding was that DE could not hand out more Excal primes, Skana primes, and lato primes. The founders are under no obligation to uphold that though. It all really depends on how strictly they worded the exclusivity clause. Any vagueness at all is open to being loopholed in favour of releasing them to the market. 

So unless specifically stated, "Founders can not, if trading of whole items implemented, trade their founders gear." then the vagueness is open enough to allow it.  

It is also merely a suggestion. I'd rather not see them stagnate as mere cosmetics, but changing the nature of the deal by changing the power of the items would require them to go back on at least one of their words. So either they implement a loophole like through trading or the items remain 'useless'. 

 

[RyojinOrion]

If DE came out now and made a public announcement stating they would never ever be making a return

 

Pretty sure they did exactly that in at least one of the livestreams. I honestly can't be bothered finding the exact one, but I am sure it was a semi-recent one. A nice forum topic post about it would be nice, though. That way, we can just link to that instead of arguing about it over and over.

 

 

It is also merely a suggestion. I'd rather not see them stagnate as mere cosmetics, but changing the nature of the deal by changing the power of the items would require them to go back on at least one of their words. So either they implement a loophole like through trading or the items remain 'useless'. 

 

 

Eh, I'm not fussed about their actual usefulness.

Edited March 5, 2014 by RyojinOrion

[Valiant]

Pretty sure they did exactly that in at least one of the livestreams. I honestly can't be bothered finding the exact one, but I am sure it was a semi-recent one. A nice forum topic post about it would be nice, though. That way, we can just link to that instead of arguing about it over and over.

They definitely did in the livestream but we need something more recent and in line with what is happening currently. As you've stated, something to refer to. It needs to be something clear. 

[Kotei]

Why would I agree with the trading of Warframes and weapons? So someone could potentially hack my account and take what they desire? I really thought my suggestion was much more logical. I'm impressed they added Void blueprint and parts trade able. 

[ObviousLee]

Why would I agree with the trading of Warframes and weapons? So someone could potentially hack my account and take what they desire? I really thought my suggestion was much more logical. I'm impressed they added Void blueprint and parts trade able. 

like i said. they said that access was cut off beyond november first to everyone who did not purchase it. which means done over finished no chance aint gonna happen no way jose get outta town charlie brown fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge no aint gonna happen =/

[Kotei]

like i said. they said that access was cut off beyond november first to everyone who did not purchase it. which means done over finished no chance aint gonna happen no way jose get outta town charlie brown fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge no aint gonna happen =/

Yes I do agree with one thing and one thing only the Skana and Lato prime shouldn't be added back. The masters and grand masters "earned" that, but Excalibur prime? It would be sad to someone that just started playing right this second and was like "Oh man Excalibur is so awesome." Then find out there are primes. "Um, why can I not get Excalibur prime anymore?". After all you Rhino's waited and wanted and wanted and waited... Would you really do that to an Excalibur fan? I believe putting the Excalibur prime Warframe on the market and leaving it in there for like 500 platinum would justify it. How about to let the Hunter's set the price of Excalibur prime on the Market with a poll or something from them. Sound's far to me to at least give them the Warframe.

Edit Note: And on a side note the Master's can poll the price of the Skana and Grandmasters the Lato if they were to be readded.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Kotei

[ObviousLee]

Yes I do agree with one thing and one thing only the Skana and Lato prime shouldn't be added back. The masters and grand masters "earned" that, but Excalibur prime? It would be sad to someone that just started playing right this second and was like "Oh man Excalibur is so awesome." Then find out there are primes. "Um, why can I not get Excalibur prime anymore?". After all you Rhino's waited and wanted and wanted and waited... Would you really do that to an Excalibur fan? I believe putting the Excalibur prime Warframe on the market and leaving it it there for like 500 platinum would justify it. How about to let the Hunter's set the price of Excalibur prime on the Market with a poll or something from them. Sound's far to me to at least give them the Warframe.

i already hit up Rebecca to hopefully come in and clarify everything for everyone. so now its back to the waiting game.

[LukeAura]

This is how they chose to word it, This is your last chance to get your hands on the Exclusive Founders Only Prime gear -- Excalibur Prime, Skana Prime and Lato Prime -- Plus, show off your support with an in-game Founders Badge.

Good old colloquial wordings. It could either mean 'buy' or 'own'. It's up to interpretation. 
Vague enough to be tradeable any ways.

 

Eh, I'm not fussed about their actual usefulness.

 

Well that's more the issue at hand I would take problem with than anything. Up to the Devs to decide whether or not they want them to be brought up in power to match current/future levels wherever they settle or to remain as is and be fairly useless except as a cosmetic item. Unfortunately with melee 2.0 this might be a problem that comes up. If Skana Prime suddenly launches in power compared to other melee weapons it'll create a huge stink. 
 

[RyojinOrion]

Yes I do agree with one thing and one thing only the Skana and Lato prime shouldn't be added back. The masters and grand masters "earned" that, but Excalibur prime? It would be sad to someone that just started playing right this second and was like "Oh man Excalibur is so awesome." Then find out there are primes. "Um, why can I not get Excalibur prime anymore?". After all you Rhino's waited and wanted and wanted and waited... Would you really do that to an Excalibur fan? I believe putting the Excalibur prime Warframe on the market and leaving it it there for like 500 platinum would justify it. How about to let the Hunter's set the price of Excalibur prime on the Market with a poll or something from them. Sound's far to me to at least give them the Warframe.

 

 

No.

 

First off, Hunters don't deserve to keep the exclusive item they paid for, but Masters and Grandmasters do? Ridiculous. Second, if you use fans of Excalibur as a reason to release Excalibur Prime, what about the fans of Skana and Lato? (Yes... Believe it or not, they do actually exist.) How can your logic apply to the fans of one thing but not the others?

 

 

Well that's more the issue at hand I would take problem with than anything. Up to the Devs to decide whether or not they want them to be brought up in power to match current/future levels wherever they settle or to remain as is and be fairly useless except as a cosmetic item. Unfortunately with melee 2.0 this might be a problem that comes up. If Skana Prime suddenly launches in power compared to other melee weapons it'll create a huge stink. 

 

 

They said that the items would be exclusive to founders. They never said the items would never have their stats changed to compensate for major changes in the game, such as Damage or Melee 2.0. If any changes are made to the base item, then the same relative changes should be made to the Prime versions of those items as well, IMO. If the Skana launches up in power, then the Skana Prime should still have the same boost in power over its original counterpart as it did before the launch in power.*

 

 

* I really need to reword that, but can't be bothered. Hopefully you can catch my meaning properly.

Edited March 5, 2014 by RyojinOrion

[Waudozer]

Cosmetics for founders instead would be nice. (with a compensation of moar legendary cores for mad founders >:D)

[RyojinOrion]

Cosmetics for founders instead would be nice. (with a compensation of moar legendary cores for mad founders >:D)

 

That might work... Until people start complaining that only Founders have those cosmetic items. Then it all starts all over again.

[LukeAura]

They said that the items would be exclusive to founders. They never said the items would never have their stats changed to compensate for major changes in the game, such as Damage or Melee 2.0.

But that would be changing the nature of the deal. You buy or don't buy an item based on its performance/looks. To change the performance after purchase, even for the better, would be as much a breach of the contract as reopening the deal to begin with. So any one who didn't buy in but now wants the items could complain legitimately. The idea of the loophole would be to offer a way that doesn't bring up complaints without breaking promises by buffing the weapons. 

So they either have to leave the items as they are, and leave a great number of people disappointed the items will never amount to anything other than a bauble, or find a loophole amongst their vague mess of promises that protects from one argument, while minimizing the chance of an attack against another. 

[Phobose]

Unfortunately with melee 2.0 this might be a problem that comes up. If Skana Prime suddenly launches in power compared to other melee weapons it'll create a huge stink. 

 

 

There's nothing wrong with an exclusive item having a sort of an edge against other melee weapons.

 

 

I'm just gonna throw my 2 cents in on this topic.

 

 

I'm a Master Founder, I didn't get the Lato prime, I do have the Excalibur and Skana Prime.

 

I'm on the side of this staying exclusive, and about that. Why are there sides? DE has already announced and has made statements near the founders programs end.

 

Let me put it to everyone who reads this post like this.

 

Exclusive items, Vandals, Wraiths, and the Founder Program prime items. When my friend first showed me Warframe, I found it interesting. I played the game for a long time. Took a break from it, came back to it and liked what i saw being released. I loved playing this game and I wanted to see it grow into something popular and great to play. I always wanted to buy the Founders Pack, not just for the items that you got and the Platinum you received, I couldn't care less about any of that stuff. I gave them my $100 to support them in the development in the game.

 

The items were exclusive, big deal. They said they wouldn't go back on their word and release these prime items. They're a momento to the few people who didnt say, hey i want this, buy it use it stop using it and stop playing the game at some point. It's a reminder that DE said thank you for supporting us, here use this and say You are a Founder. Someone who is dedicated to this game.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Phobose

[Waudozer]

That might work... Until people start complaining that only Founders have those cosmetic items. Then it all starts all over again.

nah, Cosmetic doesn't affects the gameplay, like OP said he only want them to release because it affects the gameplay and being exclusive.

 

though if this is gonna happen, DE's gonna have to release exclusive mods and more exclusive weapons too... man.

 

I rather just keep it like this state, it'd be too messy if that's gonna happen.

Edited March 5, 2014 by saeriinubashiri

[FuzzyRamen]

Just give us Founders a Scarf and look fancy. We jelous of those Prime Access people. :P

[RyojinOrion]

Naith and Kotei... You guys wanna take your argument elsewhere, preferably private messaging? It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. 

 

 

 You buy or don't buy an item based on its performance/looks.

 

 

Sorry, but what logic you use to rationalize your purchase of the items in the first place has nothing to do with the deal made. Nowhere in the deal did it say that the items would remain exactly as they were when purchased, nor did they even mention the performance of the items. What was promised was that purchasers would be able to exclusively keep the items. If the items are removed from out inventories by DE, then THAT would be a violation of the deal made. Additionally, the game is in beta. Everything in it is subject to change. That is the nature of betas. I'd be surprised if it didn't say something along those lines in the EULA. Expecting items, exclusive or not, to remain the same in the face of major gamechanging updates in a beta version of a game is purely foolish.

 

 

nah, Cosmetic doesn't affects the gameplay,

 

Irrelevant. If there is something that players can not obtain, then you can bet on there being people complaining about not being able to get the exclusive content.

Edited March 5, 2014 by RyojinOrion