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Hixlysss

Release Excalibur, Lato, Skana Prime To Public, Give Founders Something Else.

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Could always have the Wraiths, Vandals and Primes as skin options, Phatose. Like I said earlier, that helps balance out the Mastery levels while not harming founder egos.

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I don't want an advantage. A pay advantage like that for founders is a bad thing for the game, not a good thing. When I bought founders, I bought it for the content that it had in it and the promise of exclusivity. As Phatose said, this sets a terrible precedent for what "exclusive" means.

 

And "supporting this for myself" would be a terrible thing to do. The problem with this suggestion is precisely that many of the people here are supporting it for themselves, but what we want as individuals isn't always going to be what's best for warframe and for the community as a whole. Like I said, sucks for me that I don't have the lato prime, but I knew the opportunity cost when I didn't buy it.

Prime extractors are the kind of advantage I'm thinking of. (And people paid for them.)

 

As I see it you can:

1- Support this for youself, which could or could not the best thing for the game.

2- Support this for others, so they can have all primes too. It'd bad for DE's "exclusivity rep", which in my opinion is nonexistent already.

3- Be against this for yourself, which is just plain selfish.

4- Be against this for DE's "exclusivity rep" which, again, I find nonexistent.

 

I used to be #4, until they said they intend to rerelease wraiths and vandals somewhere the line.

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As I see it you can:

1- Support this for youself, which could or could not the best thing for the game.

2- Support this for others, so they can have all primes too. It'd bad for DE's "exclusivity rep", which in my opinion is nonexistent already.

3- Be against this for yourself, which is just plain selfish.

4- Be against this for DE's "exclusivity rep" which, again, I find nonexistent.

 

 

Because it's selfish for me to deny myself the ability to get exclusives I missed out on. 

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Because it's selfish for me to not ask for the lato prime despite the fact that I really want it.

If that's really your reason, considering you'd also be keeping other people from having all primes, then yes.

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Could always have the Wraiths, Vandals and Primes as skin options, Phatose. Like I said earlier, that helps balance out the Mastery levels while not harming founder egos.

 

Why is Mastery balance even a concern?  Currently available mastery is more then enough for rank 13 with no exclusives whatsoever, which is like 6 ranks more then you actually need for anything.

 

This kind of strikes me as "Re-release things for the sake of collector's egos, while dismissing any protests based on other egos".

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If that's really your reason, considering you'd also be keeping other people from having all primes, then yes.

 

I think you missed the point. 

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I think you missed the point. 

That you'd also have something to gain from rereleasing them? Not really. You'd have less to gain than others.

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I think DE made the mistake when they released FrostP (first non-founder prime item for those who are wondering): they should have gave the new Frost a different name and a different theme, instead of calling it prime and making it gold like the founder stuff. It was really shortsighted of them, because obviously Frost wasn't going to be the only item to get a new alternate version.

Eventually DE will hit a wall when they'll have released all the primes and I wonder what they'll do then? Stop? Release ExcalP to the public? Make a 2nd ExcalP? I don't know, all 3 seem bad choices too me.

 

Edit:

As much as I'm curious to see how the discussion develops, if you are looking for the support of other founders I suggest you go and remake your thread in a founder-only subforum (there must be such a place right?), because otherwise this thread is just going to get bloated with non-founder biased comments saying "yes, yes!" or it's going to be lost in a sea of other threads (I imagine the founder subforum is less trafficked). Plus, if the discussion is just among the founders DE might participate directly without the fear that the rest of the community over reacts, etc.

Valkyr will never get a prime, she was a byproduct of AladVs experiments and not the Orokin.  More of the new frames are being recently made instead of being made by the Orokin soooo the Primes will/should stop after awhile.

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Why is Mastery balance even a concern?.

Based on what we know of Focus, the higher your Mastery the more times you can use it/better it gets/something.

Which means Founders will always have a statistical advantage going off what we have now, which could range from a slight bonus to World of Warcraft-style full Tyrannical Conquest PvPers stomping crafted/Honour players into the ground in random BGs.

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Based on what we know of Focus, the higher your Mastery the more times you can use it/better it gets/something.

Which means Founders will always have a statistical advantage going off what we have now, which could range from a slight bonus to World of Warcraft-style full Tyrannical Conquest PvPers stomping crafted/Honour players into the ground in random BGs.

 

So, basically, we're basing this off a system that doesn't even exist yet, on the grounds that it will create a bonus for Founders in those brief periods where those 3 primes are enough to put a completed maxed out player with those primes 1 rank higher then those without?

 

If that's the case, this conversation is premature.

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This thread is definitely a sight to behold, Usually founders are Hyper defensive and whiny when people so much as hint at Founders Gear, but to see a Grandmaster actively want to let others have the Trio of Primes, and then Founders of various ranks supporting it. Definitely strange, Startling almost.

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Valkyr will never get a prime, she was a byproduct of AladVs experiments and not the Orokin.  More of the new frames are being recently made instead of being made by the Orokin soooo the Primes will/should stop after awhile.

She'll probably get a Vandal then. And I don't think they'll ever stop priming frames. But it's all speculation for now.

 

If that's the case, this conversation is premature.

But the early bird, man. Or early Zephyr or whatever...

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I don't think it is a simple matter of what's fair anymore. It is a matter of them making a promise, and stating that they will never release them again.

If they go back and break that promise and go against their word, I sure as hell will not be trusting anything they say in the future. It also wouldn't really do much for their image as a company.

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So, basically, we're basing this off a system that doesn't even exist yet, on the grounds that it will create a bonus for Founders in those brief periods where those 3 primes are enough to put a completed maxed out player with those primes 1 rank higher then those without?

 

If that's the case, this conversation is premature.

 

Right - and who is to say that releasing exclusives is the most elegant solution? DE's pretty robust when they do things like this; Surely they could exclude founder mastery bonus in general or for the focus system, or maybe focus won't even use mastery rank, etc.

 

Definitely agree that this is very premature

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I don't think it is a simple matter of what's fair anymore. It is a matter of them making a promise, and stating that they will never release them again.

If they go back and break that promise and go against their word, I sure as hell will not be trusting anything they say in the future. It also wouldn't really do much for their image as a company.

I absolutely agree, but they already said they plan on rereleasing Wraiths and Vandals in the Livestream. And if that's the idea, then what's the point of exclusives? Just forget about the E word. I'd rather give everyone the same chance at weapons and frames and turn "exclusive rewards" into something else.

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I absolutely agree, but they already said they plan on rereleasing Wraiths and Vandals in the Livestream. And if that's the idea, then what's the point of exclusives? Just forget about the E word. I'd rather give everyone the same chance at weapons and frames and turn "exclusive rewards" into something else.

 

Where are you getting the idea that vandals and wraiths are exclusives? I don't remember ever hearing DE explicitly state that any of those items were exclusive. They were removed from the market/events/etc, but that != exclusive. In contrast, you've heard what they've said about the founder primes.

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Where are you getting the idea that vandals and wraiths are exclusives? I don't remember ever hearing DE explicitly state that any of those items were exclusive. They were removed from the market/events/etc, but that != exclusive. In contrast, you've heard what they've said about the founder primes.

I always love when people ask questions like this because the term exclusive is the most deliciously vague word ever. 

Everything is exclusive in some sense or another when you think about it. To call something exclusive only means there is some kind of barrier to entry or acquirement. 

Market weapons are exclusive to only those who buy and build them, for example. 

So yes, the vandals and wraiths are exclusive, they've never been officially called so, but in the purest sense of the word they are. That doesn't mean they can't be handed out again though for whatever reason. 

 

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No.

Seriously no.

Exclusives should always be exclusive. I've played many other games where only a small subset of players gotten an exclusive item that was never re-release. Hell anytime you buy a game that has a collector edition there is something that once sold out you almost never get again unless someone sells it. That is the same for founders. There is hardly precedent for DE to go back on their word on this and I wouldn't support them doing it (I also hope they keep their stance on not doing dual gender warframes.).

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I always love when people ask questions like this because the term exclusive is the most deliciously vague word ever. 

Everything is exclusive in some sense or another when you think about it. To call something exclusive only means there is some kind of barrier to entry or acquirement. 

Market weapons are exclusive to only those who buy and build them, for example. 

So yes, the vandals and wraiths are exclusive, they've never been officially called so, but in the purest sense of the word they are. That doesn't mean they can't be handed out again though for whatever reason. 

 

 

Except that the founder's stuff was explicitly stated to be exclusive. It's not amorphous the way I explained/questioned it - again, please show me where the vandal gear was explicitly called exclusive. The founder's/prime access gear has been, what about the other "exclusives?"

 

If you can't make a clear connection between those two things, then the argument that "if some exclusives are obtainable later, all should be" can't even be brought up, much less debated.

 

Saying that everything is essentially exclusive is equivocation. It's implied that exclusive here means that they won't be obtainable again. By stating that "market weapons are exclusive to those who buy and build them" is just arguing semantics because everyone can build or buy it at any time, so it's not really exclusive in this context.

 

 

https://warframe.com/prime-access-faq

 

Clear context surrounding the meaning of the word exclusive:

 

"Will the exclusive items be available in game after a new pack is available?

No. The exclusive items in Prime Access will stay exclusive to the pack. They will not be introduced in-game."

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It's interesting to see other peoples view points. Some people are defending they stay exclusive just because they say "exclusive" when honestly DE is the first bunch of devs I've run across where exclusive means just that, exclusive, and not "exclusive early access" Let alone the first game with items that you can use that are not cosmetic that are exclusive. I mean with most other games, you get "Exclusive Title!" or "Exclusive skin!" not "Exclusive weapon that is better than the default that no one will ever get again!"

 

To those saying "DE gave us their word they will be exclusive" I love DE for sticking by their guns, but honestly the founder primes, while neat and awesome at their intial release, are out shined by many items now. A few founders here have even stated they are inferior and not even worth using over other items, So again why should they be kept exclusive to the founders? For the sake of being exclusive? DE can put something else up as the founders shining badge of honor.

 

Again, look at the OTHER things in the game. The prime warframes, they are nothing more than formaed reskins and, purely theory here, probably never will be more than that, why? Because Excalibur prime is locked up as an "Exclusive". The point was made also that the founder primes are...well lacking, they don't stack up to any of the others, hell some don't even stack up to newer weapons released, but the moment DE buffs them there will be waves of people complaining that the founders get more awesome weapons.

 

DE basically has backed themselves into a corner where they have these items, which at this point will sit and collect dust and lose their meaning because they are exclusive. If these were simple skins it would be fine because there is nothing a cosmetic item (helmets and certain skins excluded) can do to make you "better" at the game.

 

I firmly believe that nothing that gives you a distinct advantage in the pure gameplay, I.E. Smashing enemies in the face, should be exclusive. It is a double edged sword. Either it's too OP and people rage on forever about it, or it's forgotten and becomes meaningless. No weapon or warframe should be exclusive. Rare to get fine, only shows up in certain events? Fine. But leaving them locked up to be forgotten, as it appears they are, renders their exclusive title meaningless.

 

The Skana and Lato prime are, as it stands, under powered compared to many things, Excal Prime with a alt helm and skin is just another formaed Excal. If these items are to remain "exclusive" they need to shine brightly. If I am going to have these items and no one else is going to have them, I want them to be truly special, they need to deserve the title "Exclusive".

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On one side of it, I don't want them to Re-Release the Prime Trio, because Y'know, that's the founders thing, that's their Symbol basically, You see Excal Prime and you're all like whoa, High roller in here. (lol)

 

On the Other side, I want them re-released, more Specifically, Excal Prime, because as it is right now, They won't make any Meaningful changes to Truly set the Primes apart from their Normal counterpart, because of the massive outlash that Excal Prime is much better than Excal and not available for the Public, At the same time, you release these items and the game can move forward in some respects, but the Founders lose their symbol and the promise DE made is broken.

 

It's a Catch 22 really.

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So, basically, we're basing this off a system that doesn't even exist yet, on the grounds that it will create a bonus for Founders in those brief periods where those 3 primes are enough to put a completed maxed out player with those primes 1 rank higher then those without?

 

If that's the case, this conversation is premature.

 

It's better to deal with potential issues before they manifest. I've had a range of "it's not even out yet/only a beta" arguments levelled at me for correctly predicting issues in other games before they happen, and every time I've mentioned the same issue when it's occurred, devs, CMs and players alike change their arguments to "should have said something earlier."

 

Sometimes it's even the same people (Zarhym from Blizzard springs to mind here).

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On one side of it, I don't want them to Re-Release the Prime Trio, because Y'know, that's the founders thing, that's their Symbol basically, You see Excal Prime and you're all like whoa, High roller in here. (lol)

 

On the Other side, I want them re-released, more Specifically, Excal Prime, because as it is right now, They won't make any Meaningful changes to Truly set the Primes apart from their Normal counterpart, because of the massive outlash that Excal Prime is much better than Excal and not available for the Public, At the same time, you release these items and the game can move forward in some respects, but the Founders lose their symbol and the promise DE made is broken.

 

It's a Catch 22 really.

The purpose of this thread is to try and get the founders another Badge, something else they can wear. I mean honestly, put a different helmet on excal prime and his immortal skin he looks no different.

 

But you get it, the Dev's can not make the primes as a whole "better" without getting backlash because Excal prime is better than Excal and exclusive. I want them to make the primes WORTH getting, not just some crappy reskin. If the devs are going to keep treating the primes as a formaed reskin, Don't make players work their asses off to get them, at least that is what I would say before prime trading...

 

The Dev's are in a corner so to speak. They have some idea for the primes certainly, we donno what, but what the primes are just aren't worth it. Woo, extra mastery, I'll just level this and then sell it. The primes appear to be this big special thing, hell the prime weapons are some of the best weapons in the game, Why can't the prime warframes be some of the best warframes? Beacuse Excalibur Prime is exclusive.

 

To all those who have said "I don't even use my lato or skana prime anymore" Why bother letting it be exclusive then? "Just buff them so they are useful!" Then those who don't have it will raise hell because it's powerful and founder exclusive. They are forgotten because no other founder wants to start the whole "My lato and skana prime suck, Can it get a buff please?" with out getting rocks thrown at em for being "An elitist who wants to be entitled to awesome stuff cause they bought the founders pack!" *Sigh.*

 

I want the prime warframes as a whole to be more than what they are, I really do, but I know the dev's can't do that so long Excalibur prime is locked as an exclusive. If they buff the other primes to be useful and leave out Excalibur prime then Founders will whine that their prime isn't as powerful as the other primes.

 

At some point, I would love to hear from a dev on this discussion. Primarily the issue of the prime warframes being just reskins with a forma and the founder primes being somewhat forgotten and left to collect dust.

 

If the founder primes are supposed to be our "Badges" then they are crappy badges. No reason to use Skana prime when I have 12 other weapons roughly 180% better, Lato prime out classed by AkVasto and roughly 13 other weapons. But due to potential rage from the community these weapons, these Badges of ours are left in the dust and are unable to be buffed to be useful again, thus they should not be restricted as exclusive. Skins are exclusive, Booster packs are exclusive, Little meta game things like the Extractors are exclusive, Anything that can be used in game play should NEVER be exclusive because of this problem.

 

DE messed up by doing this, and as founders, as a community, we should allow them to make up for their mistake and fix this problem. Make the Prime Warframes useful, give the Skana and Lato prime their rightful place among the most powerful weapons in the game, and let the founders be proud that they supported this game when it was getting on it's feet.

 

I'm honestly proud at this game, it's come a long way, hit some bumps, but it's a fantastic game. The Dev's are great at making up for their mistakes, but this is one mistake they are stuck on due to the potential backlash from all sides. The only way it can get fixed, is if they make the founder primes non exclusive and the founders get another "Badge" to wear.

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The purpose of this thread is to try and get the founders another Badge, something else they can wear. I mean honestly, put a different helmet on excal prime and his immortal skin he looks no different.

 

But you get it, the Dev's can not make the primes as a whole "better" without getting backlash because Excal prime is better than Excal and exclusive. I want them to make the primes WORTH getting, not just some crappy reskin. If the devs are going to keep treating the primes as a formaed reskin, Don't make players work their asses off to get them, at least that is what I would say before prime trading...

 

The Dev's are in a corner so to speak. They have some idea for the primes certainly, we donno what, but what the primes are just aren't worth it. Woo, extra mastery, I'll just level this and then sell it. The primes appear to be this big special thing, hell the prime weapons are some of the best weapons in the game, Why can't the prime warframes be some of the best warframes? Beacuse Excalibur Prime is exclusive.

 

To all those who have said "I don't even use my lato or skana prime anymore" Why bother letting it be exclusive then? "Just buff them so they are useful!" Then those who don't have it will raise hell because it's powerful and founder exclusive. They are forgotten because no other founder wants to start the whole "My lato and skana prime suck, Can it get a buff please?" with out getting rocks thrown at em for being "An elitist who wants to be entitled to awesome stuff cause they bought the founders pack!" *Sigh.*

 

I want the prime warframes as a whole to be more than what they are, I really do, but I know the dev's can't do that so long Excalibur prime is locked as an exclusive. If they buff the other primes to be useful and leave out Excalibur prime then Founders will whine that their prime isn't as powerful as the other primes.

 

At some point, I would love to hear from a dev on this discussion. Primarily the issue of the prime warframes being just reskins with a forma and the founder primes being somewhat forgotten and left to collect dust.

 

If the founder primes are supposed to be our "Badges" then they are crappy badges. No reason to use Skana prime when I have 12 other weapons roughly 180% better, Lato prime out classed by AkVasto and roughly 13 other weapons. But due to potential rage from the community these weapons, these Badges of ours are left in the dust and are unable to be buffed to be useful again, thus they should not be restricted as exclusive. Skins are exclusive, Booster packs are exclusive, Little meta game things like the Extractors are exclusive, Anything that can be used in game play should NEVER be exclusive because of this problem.

 

DE messed up by doing this, and as founders, as a community, we should allow them to make up for their mistake and fix this problem. Make the Prime Warframes useful, give the Skana and Lato prime their rightful place among the most powerful weapons in the game, and let the founders be proud that they supported this game when it was getting on it's feet.

 

I'm honestly proud at this game, it's come a long way, hit some bumps, but it's a fantastic game. The Dev's are great at making up for their mistakes, but this is one mistake they are stuck on due to the potential backlash from all sides. The only way it can get fixed, is if they make the founder primes non exclusive and the founders get another "Badge" to wear.

A sacrifice for the betterment of the Game, Isn't that what being a founder is all about?

 

But yes +1, For I have no +1's left atm. lol

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