Release Excalibur, Lato, Skana Prime To Public, Give Founders Something Else.

[Hixlysss]

 

 

That's not win-win, it's using a technicality to make something "exclusive". You know that's a "corrupted wish" and a backdoor, but you keep suggesting it. How is a skin of the exact same thing everyone else can get exclusive at all?

 

Either founders get something exclusive or not. If not, we just got screwed, and if so, people like you complain that people who didn't pay and didn't pick up an early deal that benefited both warframe and ourselves should somehow receive the same rewards.

 

You're probably going for a "founder's skin looks slightly different", but again, that still encroaches on the meaning of "exclusive." Firstly, it completely craps on the promise DE made about the content. Secondly, while a skin could still be exclusive, an item like that with a direct counterpart introduced later loses much of its appeal when it was originally called exclusive and you know this.

 

 

 

 

You mentioned before that "Warframe is the first game where exclusive means exclusive for founder's packs." What other games do you play that blatantly lie to their players and go back on deals where money changed hands?

 

Firefall's founder's pack has remained exclusive.

 

Mechwarrior's founder's pack has remained exclusive (and oh my god at their business practices - if they've stuck to their word, wow. They make changes their community doesn't agree with, unlike warframe).

 

Neverwinter's founder's pack has remained exclusive.

 

I don't think we should propagate the terrible business practices of whatever obscure games you might have in mind.

 

Woah, founder pack exclusive? They did say the drow species was "exclusive" and then released it to the public, don't you remember? But on that subject, BLacklight: Retribution, their gold packs. PWE Spit out "One time only!" "Exclusive, Exclusive!" And then twice since they have stated it was "One time only" they have released the pack again.

 

As for the Mechwarrior Online thing, look at what they got, they got a mech with a SKIN that gives boosts. THey didn't get some +10 weapon no one else can get, their mechs don't have better armor or speed than other mechs, it's cosmetic with some boosters!

 

And the Firefall founders pack, sure it's stayed exclusive but they aren't getting weapons and armor that affect the game. They got permanent boosters and cosmetic items!

 

To your "Either founders get something exclusive or not. If not, we just got screwed, and if so, people like you complain that people who didn't pay and didn't pick up an early deal that benefited both warframe and ourselves should somehow receive the same rewards." statement, I'm perfectly fine with new players who weren't around getting the founder primes, why? Because I believe that it is unfair to everyone in the game, even the founders, to give them items that directly affect gameplay. In the end we get screwed because it's an exclusive weapon that just sits and collects dust and becomes useless because the Dev's can't make it useful without hearing crap from the people who don't have it, Look at the Brakk thing, "It's OP, Boohoo".

 

If the founder primes were just cosmetics like in all those other founder packs you mentioned we wouldn't be having the discussion.

 

Agreed.

 

but after releasing them to public, just turn my lato prime into "the founder edition"

that means stat is not changed from normal ones but given founder-sparkling effect on them.

See. We can still keep our exclusives if people want. I don't see what the big deal is over giving the normal players a different skinned version. Our's is still exclusive, and if they share the same stats, or if they are the same "thing" just different skins then their stats can be the same, meaning our weapons don't have to SUCK anymore.

 

Thank you for that analogy. As a (I'll play by their rules) "Gimme Gimme I Don't Have" player, I want the OPTION. How many companies go back and re-release their collectors edition content (at least the digital variety) not months after the game is out? How many people threaten lawsuits over that?

Oh right, too few to make a difference. I'd say none but I don't have that much hope for humanity, so I say too few because when was the last time you honestly heard this self same complaint revolving around another game?

Ah yes, the "Collectors Edition!" Stuff. "Buy now, Get exclusive Collectors Edition DLC!" and then a few months out "Collectors Edition DLC, Buy now!" for everyone. Companies and such do this against their players will, how ever if we can vote on this, if we ask DE to do this, that is a different story. I love that DE is actually wanting to stick by their guns and have the term "Exclusive" mean that, but Gameplay affecting items should never be exclusive in a F2P game. In the end it's either OP and people whine and throw a hissy fit, it's deemed "Not worth it" at some point, or it's left to be forgotten and collect dust which is what is happening now.

 

The difference between those and this, Is that THIS Collectors Edition Affects gameplay, Most, if not all Collectors Edition items are just Cosmetic Items + Some nice Physical stuff (T-shirt, Mug, etc...) and have little to no effect on the Gameplay.

 

OP Wants to swap these Gameplay affecting items, for Items that do not affect the Gameplay, At least that Is what I'm grabbing from it.

Yes. Swap Gameplay affecting items for Cosmetics or boosters.

 

To be honest, I think those suggestions are a bit overboard and, in fact, I think some of the support seen here is from the standpoint of "heck yes I'd trade my exclusivity for BP's and boosters that'd save me thousands of plat over time!".

 

Far too many games have eventually given up on exclusivity that was purchased by players in a show of support.  It would show a great deal of integrity to not EVER re-issue exclusive items that where actually purchased with real world money.

 

On top of this, there are a myriad of economic reasons to not go this direction.  "Bundles" that include two weapons and a frame run 500-700 plat or so, give or take.  My current weapon stable has sixty seven weapons in it---if all had catalysts, the platinum value of this BP alone would be double.  If I where to triple forma the whole lot, I'd have five thousand plat worth sitting around(assuming all purchased catalysts/forma, obviously).  A permanent booster reduces the value of purchased bundles that often include a booster to level them, and remove the purchased boosters that, I would submit, are purchased more often by veteran players than new ones(once you've run with a catalysted/forma'd/boostered weapon, spending a few plat on a booster to not have to deal with a 1-30 skill point weapon starts seeming like a really good idea.

 

If any percentage of that platinum got purchased anyway, it would skew the player driven aspects of the economy in the wrong direction as well.  Without any danger of having to pay for forma or catalyst, more plat could easily be reserved for mod purchases, driving prices up.  New players walking into a game are very, very often not at all interested in inflated prices that could easily reach the cost of entire games.

 

Last but certainly not least, some founders probably DID make the purchase to obtain their exclusive gear.  Others probably passed on the opportunity because they didn't want that particular gear---I know that with my own platinum purchases I've passed on the current founders pack and instead went with the better priced platinum bundles in large part because I've no interest in an Ember Prime or Glaive Prime, and passing interest at best in a Sicarus Prime.

 

Should those that trusted this exclusivity to remain be slighted?  I don't think so.  Should those that would have made the purchase with a different reward suddenly watch others get the things that they WOULD have paid for?  I don't think so there either.

 

If unavailable items are to ever be offered to "the rest of us", I think it should be limited to events being repeated that let us have the opportunity to gain these items the same way other people did, but frankly I wasn't around for those either and if an express promise of exclusivity was made with them, they too should fall away forever. 

Eh, they were idea's to get the ball rolling, I kinda wanted to see how people would react to the idea. I agree with the exclusivity thing, but again these are gameplay affecting items in a F2P game, they need to be cosmetic instead, why? So the weapons themselves, their stats and ect, can actually be messed with, made useful, without an uproar of "Founder weapons OP, Nerf now!"

 

As for the boosters, I'm not saying give founders the exact same boosters as in the store, I know DE needs their money, give us perm 50% boosters rather than the full 2X ones in the market place. And to your thing about the catalyst BP's, if it's countered by high cost it would work, I mean we get the catalyst/reactors enough as it is, they pop up in invasions as battlepay now so as long as the BP for em has a decent cost/time to cook it will work.

 

To the "Founders who bought it just for the gear" one, sure they can cast their vote. I honestly want to see how many founders are like that when the majority that seem to have posted here are far less...selfish I suppose? I donno the right word. But I guess it also depends on why they bought just for the gear, because of how it looked? Or was it because they wanted some super awesome founder weapon? Sorry bud, your founder weapons are useless past level 20, you can't show off anymore.

 

But yeah, I welcome their votes, if we ever can get a poll started on this. Oh, and it looks like you made a comment about the event items? The wraiths and vandals yes? THe dev's have already stated that those can make another round and pop up for new players to get ahold of them. And to your "Those that trusted this exclusivity to remain" Honestly, all I can say is the majority rules. Hold a vote, if the majority wants it to happen, let it happen, just like with the PvP being added, people didn't want that, but more people wanted it.

 

Again, if founders got the pack, got the items, for how they look, then it's just skins, DE can release the primes, and founders get "Founder Edition" skins, Exclusivity still remains, we still have our Exclusive Excalibur Prime, nothing has changed except the public now has something that is statistically the same as our primes, if people want to fuss and complain over another weapon that looks different, but has the same stats? No, sorry, they can leave because that is getting close to "Elitest" views in my opinion. "HUrr durr, I paid for dis weapon, no one should have anything like it ever because I paid for it, I'm entitled to my exclusive weapon cause I paid for it." That should never happen.

 

Many collectors editions add additional digital bits to their game for them, often starting/mid game items or like you mention cosmetics/physical stuff. All of which founders have (or will get shortly), even if we didnt expect to get the physical stuff (thanks DE for that BTW).

 

Actually the only thing these effect for everyone is mastery (at the higher end I doubt they even give a single mastery level more and its only 2 weapons and one frame's worth), the gameplay is only effected if you dont play with the normal ones, with the exception of Skana prime overhead charge attack they play exactly the same as their normal counter parts (ie. not that well in late game).

 

Actually that was my initial thought too, though whether it's intened or not further posts make it sound like Rikov wants something that's useful to them late game (or always useful) instead.  I dont really need anything more than what we have gotten, but I understand some players may want that show of faith from DE that the founders arent forgotten about if they did release the founders primes for collective or  lore purposes or just making the game better on the whole.  I doubt they will change their minds unless an over whelming number of founders pushes for it (much like how they did with heavy player desire for PvP).

I don't want something "useful at all times" I want something cosmetic so I can always show it off without risking getting my teeth kicked in cause I wanted to show off my neat founders stuff. I mostly was suggesting the "Buff the founder primes" to people who were so friggin' stuck on keeping it exclusive. I just want a shiny skin at this point so DE can make these weapons good for the benefit of everyone.

[Vargras]

Look, I get that you're trying to help out folks who missed out on Founders items, and while that's nice and all, you're forgetting one key thing.

 

Exclusive items will always leave people unhappy, regardless it's purely cosmetic or not.

 

The people with the exclusive items are pleased that they have them, and will be angry if they're released, because that's no longer exclusive. The people without them are angry that they don't have them, and will be pleased if they're released, because now they have formerly exclusive items. Even if it's something purely cosmetic that has zero effect on gameplay, people will complain if they missed the window on it and can't have it. Why? Because someone else has it and they don't, and they have no chance to ever get it again. It's envy. It's classic psychology.

 

It's less of a mess in the end if they simply don't do anything else with the Founders stuff.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Vargras

[Tsukinoki]

Vargas has it completely right.

Even if they did swap out our founders gear and frame for super special skins or scarves or other effects, and they would have to be damn impressive to even consider moving over to cosmetic items (as in a super special visible effect around all of our frames or something), then people will just moan and complain that they dont have those items and are unable to get them.

Did you see the rage threads that were posted when people saw the exclusive scarf in the inferno pack? And that is just a scarf and there were dozens of rage threads with people complaining that they cant get one without buying that pack. And once they swap it out for another scarf or whatever is going to be in the next pack I fully expect the rage threads to happen again because now they cant even plan on buying it in the future.

What you're trying to do OP may seem nice, but it wont stop any of the threads about people unhappy about not being to get the founders items (not that there are all that many to begin with).

Honestly the easiest, and IMO best because it means that DE keeps their word, solution is to just stick to their guns and not release it. It will cause the least amount of turmoil.

[Tigersight]

I also agree with letting the founder exclusives become available to everyone. I mean, I'm a founder, but I'm not a grand master. I know how it sucks to have something no one else can get, and to not be able to get something others have.

 

Any weapons, frames, and other items that affect the gameplay should be made available to all players, regardless of whether or not they pay money to the developers.

 

That said, giving founders permanent boosters/reuseable bps/whatever would create the same problem. Founders would consistently get more of XX when playing than others, whether it be easy access to catalysts, forma or whatever.

 

In my opinion, give the founders a skin, or give them a syndana. Give them something COSMETIC. That's the whole point, isn't it? To show that you are a founder, you gave DE money early on to get the game to where it is now. So we should get something shiny and nice looking that clearly shows our status, NOT something that allows us to gain more mastery points than others.

 

As previously stated, it could also free up DE a so they could do a little more with primes than reskin things and add polarities. When Nova Prime eventually comes around, I want to see a frame noticeably different from the original, not just a reskin like frost prime.

[Vargras]

In my opinion, give the founders a skin, or give them a syndana. Give them something COSMETIC. That's the whole point, isn't it? To show that you are a founder, you gave DE money early on to get the game to where it is now. So we should get something shiny and nice looking that clearly shows our status, NOT something that allows us to gain more mastery points than others.

That runs into the same problem I mentioned. Even if you swap out the current Founder rewards for something else that's exclusive, people are still going to complain, because it's exclusive and they don't have access to it anymore.

 

The issue is not items that have stats. The issue is exclusivity, in general.

[Seox]

Holy ungodly wall of text, batman. You might not want to reply in depth to everything that gets posted, especially if it restates some of the points that have likely come up in nine pages so far - that is one heck of a long post. O.o Or at least only quote enough that it's clear what you're responding to instead of the whole thing.

 

 

Woah, founder pack exclusive? They did say the drow species was "exclusive" and then released it to the public, don't you remember? But on that subject, BLacklight: Retribution, their gold packs. PWE Spit out "One time only!" "Exclusive, Exclusive!" And then twice since they have stated it was "One time only" they have released the pack again.

 

With every example I gave for items that really did remain exclusive, you tried to shoot them down by stating that "they were just cosmetic." The point that I was trying to make was that other developers have kept exclusivity with their items. That said:

 

What about the violet rings in the neverwinter packs? How about the starting weapon or the enchantment?

 

"Those are crappy items. They don't cause any problems or break the balance in any way." 

 

Except neither does the lato/skana/excal. In both cases, this is advanced starter gear. Even if you buffed them, there are tens of other weapons that would be on par or superior. As long as they don't clearly lead the pack in terms of stats, who cares? That presumes they even need a buff in the first place - most founders only use them for cosmetic purposes as-is. You could leave them as they are and I and many other founders wouldn't be particularly upset by this.

 

And you can't simply hand wave this example with a "well it's cosmetic", because it's not.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Seox

[Hixlysss]

Look, I get that you're trying to help out folks who missed out on Founders items, and while that's nice and all, you're forgetting one key thing.

 

Exclusive items will always leave people unhappy, regardless it's purely cosmetic or not.

 

The people with the exclusive items are pleased that they have them, and will be angry if they're released, because that's no longer exclusive. The people without them are angry that they don't have them, and will be pleased if they're released, because now they have formerly exclusive items. Even if it's something purely cosmetic that has zero effect on gameplay, people will complain if they missed the window on it and can't have it. Why? Because someone else has it and they don't, and they have no chance to ever get it again. It's envy. It's classic psychology.

 

It's less of a mess in the end if they simply don't do anything else with the Founders stuff.

This isn't for the people who missed out, not completely. It's also so I can stop staring at my founder primes and be all "Sigh, I wish I could take you something challenging." But fine, if the founder items won't be made available to everyone then release the statistical equal of them. Someone earlier suggested releasing "Relic" versions, something unique but has it's stats tied to the founder primes, then if those weapons get buffed, the founder primes get buffed as well.

 

Honestly for the devs to release primes of many other warframes and weapons, and then hold these back and be all "No, You can't have them for no reason other than we don't wanna." Give a lore reason why they aren't released, something beyond just "No, You weren't here at the right time, Bugger off." If these are going to be exclusive like this, they need to be worth it 100% of the time. Not the most OP weapons, but useful at all times, everywhere in the game. I should be able to take my lato and skana prime to smash level 55 enemies in the face just as easily as I can with the Dakra prime or the Bronco prime.

[Seox]

This isn't for the people who missed out, not completely. It's also so I can stop staring at my founder primes and be all "Sigh, I wish I could take you something challenging." But fine, if the founder items won't be made available to everyone then release the statistical equal of them. Someone earlier suggested releasing "Relic" versions, something unique but has it's stats tied to the founder primes, then if those weapons get buffed, the founder primes get buffed as well.

 

Honestly for the devs to release primes of many other warframes and weapons, and then hold these back and be all "No, You can't have them for no reason other than we don't wanna." Give a lore reason why they aren't released, something beyond just "No, You weren't here at the right time, Bugger off." If these are going to be exclusive like this, they need to be worth it 100% of the time. Not the most OP weapons, but useful at all times, everywhere in the game. I should be able to take my lato and skana prime to smash level 55 enemies in the face just as easily as I can with the Dakra prime or the Bronco prime.

 

Except the devs aren't saying "No, you can't have them for no other reason than we don't wanna."

 

I still don't see why, in a game with over 100 weapons, they cannot be buffed independent of the others. If the game wasn't built on the premise that you can play your own way, fine, but noone is going to complain about making them exclusive average weapons. Nobody is complaining about the braton vandal, and it's decent up until endgame, though it may or may not be truly exclusive.

 

I feel like the fact that you imply that we MUST make them available or we CANNOT BUFF THEM is a non-sequitur that you need to elaborate on, because the only thing you've given us to back that claim up is that "people would complain it's OP even if it wasn't." As I stated before, I'm not inclined to believe that that's true just because you claim the community will instantly say so independent of fact.

[Phatose]

Lorewise shouldn't be a problem.  Primes are, after all, Orokin tech, and the Orokin aren't around to build them any more, since we kind of killed them all. 

 

Just say "One of the last battles of the Sentients War was a major attack on the Warframe production facilities, targeting the original factory where Excaliburs were produced.  Many Warframes were lost in this battle, including a large number of the Excalibur Frames in existence.  The facilities were corrupted beyond salvage, and the production facilities were scuttled in the void.  Plans to rebuild them were put on hold at the end of the war, and then permanently ended with the Tenno rebellion."

 

 

 

The main concern with buffing them is, IMHO at least, that the only people who can use the things are the people who have them.   Those who don't obvious can't provide any useful input on whether they're too powerful or too weak, and it's hardly a stretch to say those people won't trust us to keep these items from being OP.  After all, we actually have them so it's hardly in our interests to keep them balanced.

 

The psychology of it is just that unless they're obviously underpowered, people who can't get them are going to assume they're OP and assume people who do have them can't be impartial about it. 

[Seox]

 

The main concern with buffing them is, IMHO at least, that the only people who can use the things are the people who have them.   Those who don't obvious can't provide any useful input on whether they're too powerful or too weak, and it's hardly a stretch to say those people won't trust us to keep these items from being OP.  After all, we actually have them so it's hardly in our interests to keep them balanced.

 

The psychology of it is just that unless they're obviously underpowered, people who can't get them are going to assume they're OP and assume people who do have them can't be impartial about it. 

 

Ok, fair enough, that's a bit more advanced an outlook on that side of the coin.

 

That said, plenty of people have mathematically proven the dps/other stats of pretty much every piece of gear in the game (Check out dpsframe.com if you don't know about it). 

 

While some weapons have strange mechanics that might be worth more than just a number (penta, for instance), the lato and skana are very straightforward weapons, and their DPS would be a pretty direct metric of comparison. I don't think the entire community would be fixed on founders weapons over the long term the same way nobody's still upset about things like the braton vandal.

 

While it can be argued that the braton vandal could be rereleased, the vocal people are the ones who are impatient and aren't thinking about the long term, and we haven't seen those. If the impatient people are fine, what of the people who are?

 

I simply don't see the community being fixed on three pieces of gear for very long, whether they know how good it is or not. Warframe has too many other items to distract people.

[Naftal]

I'd be okay with this, but only if Braton and Lato Vandal are released as well.

[Zachles]

I don't even use my Founder's gear. I will, on occasion, use Excalibur Prime, but Lato Prime and Skana Prime have been taking up dust in my inventory practically since I bought them...

 

To be honest, I'd be down with this. I mean, not like it will ever happen, but I'd be cool with this happening as long as I got to keep the aforementioned Prime gear.

 

+1, OP.

[Edeamous]

I'm going to go with no. I see your point, and I'm adamant in that being NO. Why?

Because it's a show of SUPPORT from the original founders. yeah, collectors will go "Awe man I want that."

 

But look at it this way- early on we spent a SET amount of money in an EXCLUSIVE bundle, guaranteed to be exclusive. Its a hallmark that says "We were there, we contributed, and we're STILL here, contributing."

 

Just because people are whining that they don't have it doesn't make it fair and just. It was an exclusive. It was marked as an exclusive, it needs t STAY an exclusive.

[Seox]

 

Just because people are whining that they don't have it doesn't make it fair and just. It was an exclusive. It was marked as an exclusive, it needs t STAY an exclusive.

 

To which he'll say "But if we can get enough grandmasters to agree, they'll have to consider changing it."

 

The problem there is that "enough" has to be "all" or you're changing the terms on people who paid for a good. I don't care if it's legal; I don't care if it's "more fair", we paid for exclusive, so it should remain exclusive.

[Yezzik]

That runs into the same problem I mentioned. Even if you swap out the current Founder rewards for something else that's exclusive, people are still going to complain, because it's exclusive and they don't have access to it anymore.

 

The issue is not items that have stats. The issue is exclusivity, in general.

 

I don't care about cosmetic things I don't have access to.

 

early on we spent a SET amount of money in an EXCLUSIVE bundle, guaranteed to be exclusive.

 

I would pay the same price now that you paid then for access to the same stuff. Is that acceptable to you?

[Seox]

 

I would pay the same price now that you paid then for access to the same stuff. Is that acceptable to you?

 

It isn't to me, and I'd wager that I'm not alone. The entire premise of a "founder's pack" is that we backed them early on when they needed it most, before we knew what would become of warframe and before we knew if it would be successful or not. Founder's packs are thanks for showing faith in game devs, and it's pretty much the F2P MMO equivalent of preordering.

 

By allowing it to be purchased at any time, it's a nice bundle but says nothing of the players who backed warframe when it wasn't stable and we didn't know it would be successful. While it could have been decided that the pack would always be available, saying that now, after promising exclusivity, is too late.

[Kalenath]

It isn't to me, and I'd wager that I'm not alone. The entire premise of a "founder's pack" is that we backed them early on when they needed it most, before we knew what would become of warframe and before we knew if it would be successful or not. Founder's packs are thanks for showing faith in game devs, and it's pretty much the F2P MMO equivalent of preordering.

 

By allowing it to be purchased at any time, it's a nice bundle but says nothing of the players who backed warframe when it wasn't stable and we didn't know it would be successful. While it could have been decided that the pack would always be available, saying that now, after promising exclusivity, is too late.

 

I could care less about the stuff.

 

But if DE starts going back on their word, THAT is a bad thing.

[Tsukinoki]

@Yezzik

It doesn't matter how much you're willing to pay now, the founders packs were essentially a kickstarter.

You don't go to a game that had a successful kickstarter after the game has launched and people are playing it and go "Well, I will pay 250$ for the 250$ kickstarter tier and all rewards that came with it now." do you?

You missed the backing period and that's that.

[OniDax]

@Yezzik

It doesn't matter how much you're willing to pay now, the founders packs were essentially a kickstarter.

You don't go to a game that had a successful kickstarter after the game has launched and people are playing it and go "Well, I will pay 250$ for the 250$ kickstarter tier and all rewards that came with it now." do you?

You missed the backing period and that's that.

 

And, still, the issue isn't that they really want to "kickstart" or support the devs. Because if they wanted to do that, they'd just get the Prime Access.

[kill3r_furby]

I could care less about the stuff.

 

But if DE starts going back on their word, THAT is a bad thing.

 

But that's just the thing; these are the ONLY things that they have said we have to keep exclusive. What happened to the Brakk? The Detron? Or the Wraiths, the vandals, or the items that they pulled from the market? Oh, right, they'll be COMING BACK.

 

You will reply with yes, but we didn't pay money for those. That's an asinine argument. "Exclusive" is "exclusive" no matter how it is "exclusive," and them saying that yes, all of the other exclusives EXCEPT THESE THREE will have another day in the Sun is blatantly hypocritical. Oh, you paid money to have something nobody else "will?" So did I. I also invested time into earning things that "people who didn't wouldn't get to have." Look how that turned out.

 

I'm tired of arguing the semantics, DE should either hold their word on everything that was at one time "Exclusive" and never give any of them another chance to be earned or they should not make an exception to their own rule.

Edited February 21, 2014 by kill3r_furby

[Tsukinoki]

@AntoineFlemming

Oh I fully understand that part.

They just want something that they dont have and never will be able to get.

I was just bringing up the best analogy for the founders packs that I can think of, and why they shouldn't be able to buy them or get what's in them.

And like was brought up by Vargas earlier: it doesn't matter if they switch the founders exclusives to being purely cosmetic, there will still be a loud section that will demand that they get the items for no other reason than they dont like exclusives in any shape or form.

I just say keep it as it is. Least amount of turmoil and problems and raging.

@kill3r_furby

They actually never said the brakk was exclusive. That was people assuming.

And you know what they say when you assume...

And there are multiple types of exclusivity.

The founders packs were specifically labeled as never being able to gotten in the game again.

Pretty clear language there.

The event exclusives?

The most I saw from DE was saying that the rewards were event exclusive(and just event, not 'only this event and never again'), or that they were special rewards given out for doing the event, and again they never said "And only this event".

They never specifically said that they would never bring them back, unlike what they said about the founders gear.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Phatose]

I don't recall them ever saying the Brakk or Detron was exclusive.  Anybody got evidence they they said that?

[Seox]

I don't recall them ever saying the Brakk or Detron was exclusive.  Anybody got evidence they they said that?

 

Exactly - I've said this multiple times, but no one has given us any evidence. They just assume that event = exclusive, which isn't stated anywhere. Looking at the prime access FAQ, however, we can see that it's explicitly called exclusive, so there are no semantics to argue.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Seox

[Kalenath]

Exactly - I've said this multiple times, but no one has given us any evidence. They just assume that event = exclusive, which isn't stated anywhere. Looking at the prime access FAQ, however, we can see that it's explicitly called exclusive, so there are no semantics to argue.

 

But assumptions ARE true, just ask most of the people who post on these forums!

 

The fact that DE said that founders gear was exclusive is MEANINGLESS if people want them now. Because they want DE to break their word. Because DE's word means nothing to those people. They want their swag and they want it now, even if they didn't earn it.

[Seox]

But assumptions ARE true, just ask most of the people who post on these forums!

 

The fact that DE said that founders gear was exclusive is MEANINGLESS if people want them now. Because they want DE to break their word. Because DE's word means nothing to those people. They want their swag and they want it now, even if they didn't earn it.

 

And even though the implications of a company that would sell $250 packs that they then change their end of the bargain on are pretty nasty.