Tenno Clock, Discussions Of The Community [Youtube] (Ep 89)

[Calayne]

Oh, man, that was fun. Never knew Silverbones was the daddy of Hate! That's pretty awesome. And one of you said my name right! It's "Cal", as in Calcium, and "ayne", as in Pain. 

 

 

Regarding Melee 2.0, though, I think the main concern for me is the same as it always has been: Heavies, Ancient Disruptors, Toxic Ancients, Shield Lancers, Scorpions, Leapers, Rollers, Anti-MOAs, and basically anything that staggers. That's the whole problem of melee from the get-go. Closing in actually isn't the problem, but at that range you expose yourself very badly, and most of the time at that range, the people who tend to be a sure precursor to your doom work their magic. 

 

Melee 2.0 makes it viable to tackle, perhaps, groups of chargers and runners. But lancers? Their blows still stagger, heavies still do slam attacks, and disruptors aren't all that fun to deal with while within melee range.

 

My hope is that with Melee 2.0, they address these issues that have been plaguing us since the beginning of time: An obsessive reliance on knockdown and staggers to kill us. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: That's a very cheap way to die, and does our enemies no favours in terms of image. If you wish to engage in melee combat, you're also allowing other enemies to use their magnum opus on you. They're basically one-trick-ponies which kill you more often than not at sufficient challenge level.

 

Surely doesn't help with Shield Lancers being immune to melee from the front, now. I foresee fighting them will be even more infuriating than it is now, unless something is changed.

[Lorche]

Whoopey do. Let's get started, shall we?

Same condition applies fro my posts, like usual.

- Firstly, you're on spot. Within many constructing comments and critics, there will be some 'oddball' who blabber nonsense and profanity. I'm not surprised if somehow in the future DE will stop their practice of 'listening to their fanbase' and do whatever they wanted, because the loudest people in the forum are the 'oddball' one.

 

Perhaps, the problem that most of players probably worried about is how DE implement Melee 2.0 with all kind of enemies that actually punish us just by going on melee range with them (Worst offender: Rollers, Shield Lancers, and all Ancients)? 'Tank' frames can shrug this problem off. But how about the frames that are delicate? Will the change are as worth as the risk so the less-tanky frames want to use the melee?

 

We're stepping on a dangerous path at the moment regarding Melee 2.0. Too much overhype, so little info, and everyone's expectation (which is different per individual). For a major overhaul like this, buff and nerfs are expected. Take a look at Damage 2.0. In short run, it nerfs many popular weapons at that time. But take a look now at the game. Much better variation on the loadouts (except for some cases), albeit it's buggy launch. Deep down, all we wanted is for the melee to be another option besides gunplay, instead of complementary weapon as it is now.

 

Also, on roleplay issue, Tenno need to lived its catchphrase as ninja, instead of warmongers and mass-murderer in the name of balance (or catalysts). Swordplay should be Tenno's first and foremost weapon discipline, not shooting rockets and grenades

 

As for me, I'll keep playing at my usual pace, keep my hype as low as possible, and when the update is up, I'll see whatever happens.

My weapon and frame's choice in the first place are whether I like using it or not. Nerfed or not, I'll still using it.

But not everyone thought the same as I am, so..........yeah.

 

- I agree with your point regarding passive buffs on Prime version of the frame. As for the fake vs Prime frames issue, I think of Prime as long-term goal of players. And Primes, naturally, are better than the copy edition. So, I'm sorry to say, but Rhino Prime will always be better than Rhino, same case for all of Prime counterpart of the copy frame. Stats tweaking also sounds appropriate regarding Prime version of warframe.

 

But, I have to agree with the community that Rhino Prime got the worst buff DE could think.

Although, it's a start to buff all of the Primes

One thing need to be considered, that balancing is fine. But try to not mess the frames' role in-game by this buff.   

 

- Thanks for showing how the Moderator's life in forum like. The father of Hate, nonetheless. *slow clap*

 

P.S.: I'm not in quite a good shape, so sorry for the (rather) short responses

Edited March 17, 2014 by Lorche

[Sixty5]

Nice vid as always guys, I don't have the time to discuss much as of now, but I would like to point out that with the vanguard helmet Rhino Prime has the same run-speed as Loki, and a number of people (myself included) find that giving one of the heaviest, most survivable frames the same level of mobility as the lightest, most mobility reliant frames a bit much.

 

Also in regards to what Silverbones was talking about community burnout, I know the felling, the Extras section is my main reason to stick around here these days, GD and feedback are a mess, and topics just don't grab my attention. Oh well.

 

Until next week

[MDRLOz]

I wish I could reply after peoples posts directly. So many nice points being raised.

 

@Traeyze 

Getting close can be a problem for some frames. However we do have things like Volts Speed and Trinity's Invincibility that could become even more effective once we get Melee 2.0. Also until we get it it will be hard to see how good these combos will be at traveling between enemies. Maybe one of the combo options you can swap to will give you a dash strike so mid combo you can change on to that one and reach the next mob you are trying to kill. Its going to be hard to say until we get melee 2.0 out. 

 

Though I do like the idea of tradeoffs I feel that may just end up as alternative helmet 2.0 but with frames. The trade offs with the helmets really did not help and just meant that some helmets never get used. 

 

@Calayne

You say the staggers is the problem... maybe if were lucky when you melee and they knockdown it will go to a parry Fight competition thing. OR at least that you can parry the knock down attack with melee. Seeing as how you have to equip the melee weapon to gain Parry it should hopefully become more powerful from the trade off of not being able to shoot stuff. 

 

@Lorche 

I am hoping that by clever use of parry mods you can make a tanky frame out of any frame in melee 2.0. I already have my rank 10 Reflex guard ready! There is a fair number of parry mods that with a buff to melee and block/parry could become really really useful. Its were I am placing my bets. What do you guys think? 

 

@Sixty5

I was not aware of that speed being available to R. prime. I am goign to need to farm in and test stuff. If only the current "access" frame was not so nerfed in drop chance... 

Edited March 18, 2014 by MDRLOz

[Tulzscha]

I just watched (or rather, listened to in the background while I was playing) the latest episode after SilverBones mentioned this series among us mods, and I must say it's quite an engaging show. Good commentary about "hot" topics going on. You have my kudos for doing this pulse of the community kind of thing.

 

Hopefully when I have the time to spare I plan to check out the earlier episodes as well, and awaiting the next ones. :)

[Calayne]

Day 492. 19th March, 2014.

 

First documented Tulzcha contact that doesn't begin with "Moved". Monitoring for other strange activity.

[Xenogelion]

It's taken me a month and so much support from some amazing people but it's finally released:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/198460-faulty-frame-squad-a-warframe-machinima/

 

I'll now have some more time and I should be able to reply to people later today!

[Xenogelion]

So episode 23 has now been released and can be found on the first post. This week we decided to look at clan emblems that could do with a little improvement and we discuss what are good practices for creating a clan emblem.

 

Drew's Find

 

 Loz's Find

 

 

@Tulzscha:

   It brings a smile to my face when someone new to the series likes it. I'd suggest maybe ignoring the older episodes less you really want to as with further development of Warframe they become less and less relevant.

 

@Calayne:

   I had to get Loz to explain to me why you said this, I LOL'd.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Xenogelion

[Sixty5]

The thing with the Alt helmets, is that a lot of people complained that they wanted X helmet but did not like the stat changes.

 

I've liked how all the helmets change the way certain frames work, the only problem I have with them is the balance of one or two of them *cough*vanguard*cough* being a tad off. But that can be changed with a bit of tweaking.

 

 

Personally I want to keep the stat helmets. It gives some Frames that need it a bit of extra utility. 

[bejuizb]

What are your thoughts on the community's overwhelming focus on DPS and comparing every single new weapon to the likes of the Soma? I feel like they facilitate power creep, and just ruin new player experience. When we all started Warframe, and by 'we' I mean players who've played for several months, we used a myriad of weapons and this helped us adopt different playstyles per gun in general. Now it is quite obvious from both the influence of YouTube content creators (you know who they are) and the general forum populace, that everyone grinds the hell out of the game till MR6 and then get the Soma, slap four forma on it and then request every single new gun to be better than it.

 

DPS is quite important, no doubt, but when it serves as a factor for powercreep or determining if a weapon is utter crap, while in reality it is quite decent, you know there's something wrong.

 

Granted, there are a few people who play for the hell of it, using fun guns and what they like. But my general observation of the community in these past six months has skewed towards the emphasis on DPS.

[MDRLOz]

That is a very good point Bejuizb. 

 

Personally I don't use the Soma but I am well aware of its silly station on DPS. Also the power creep is a problem. Recently we saw the Latron Prime get buffed suddenly to over the soma and now I hear  the boltor prime can do more damage to. 

 

Where is my Braton prime buff :( 

 

I feel the problem with the damage system of this game is that it does not really create enough Niches for weapons. Even though the damage system is supposed to give three different damage types to weapons that do more or less damage it is over shadowed by the elemental damage working off the raw damage value for the weapon.

If the game had certain weapons being better on certain tile sets or under certain environmental conditions  it would give the complete weapon range a place where it can shine. 

Edited March 24, 2014 by MDRLOz

[Xenogelion]

@Sixty5:

    To be honest and as I said in the episode, I'd be absolutely cool if DE just took off all the stats entirely but at the same time I can see the value in the system they're introducing. Loz seriously has a valid point about can you have two versions of the helmets, I can't see a reason why they'd restrict that however after the recording Loz did check and apparently you can't see a helmet blueprint in your foundry if you've already got a built one in your inventory.

 

@bejuizb:

    So in thinking about this I often find myself reflecting back to Damage 1.0 and Damage 2.0 changes. So before Damage 2.0 came along absolutely nothing beat the Soma, nothing was even on par with it and it was a massive problem with power creep. Since Damage 2.0 I personally feel that the situation has gotten a lot better, not prefect just better. When a new gun comes out it should in no way shape or form set the bar even higher. For a long long time the Soma was top of the chart until DE reworked the Latron Prime and then that past it even so slighty. Prime weapons should be better than most of the standard weapons with the exception of maybe Wraiths and Vandals.

 

Long story short, I feel that no new weapon should be an improvement on the last and nor do I agree people should be carrying the same stuff as the other three people they're playing with. Everyone should have their own play style and people should respect that and DE for putting in weapons for alternative play styles.

 

I also feel that there should be an option to turn off damage numbers.

[MDRLOz]

The problem with weapons damage atm is that you can pretty much rank all the weapon on one linear scale. End of line. 

 

The game needs to have multiple scales based on something e.g. Environment or Armour type. 

 

It should be that Weapon A is the best overall weapon but weapon B is the best against flying enemies and weapon C is the best against armoured targets. Thus giving weapons more ways to be compared. 

 

However (by my understanding of damage 2.0) this is not how damage 2.0 functions. Elemental damage from weapons is simply calculated by the combined total of the weapon and then given as a value. It should be taken from the damage value of the weapon after it hits the target and thus have damage/armour types counted. E.g. Currently a flaming bullet does fire damage based on the bullet that shot it. Its fire damage should be based of the amount of damage that bullet was able to do to the target. 

 

This would mean that the different base damage type would impact how much damage you can do with different elements. 

[Sixty5]

The problem I have with weapons is that they all do the same thing.

 

It is really difficult to create a weapon that a playerbase will latch onto if it is the same as other weapons before it but with different stats. The Soma is what it is because it is a hitscan automatic rifle with the best DPS. If DE were to release another hitscan automatic rifle it is immediately compared to the Soma, if it is not better than the Soma it is bad, and it is mastery fodder, if it is better, then everyone switches over to the new weapon.

 

What DE has been doing recently is shifting towards incomparables, weapons that function differently to everything else. This is definitely the right play, as it promotes a more diverse range of playstyles. 

And when a new unique weapon is released (Say the Castanas) people then have to make a choice, whether or not to stick with say a DPS weapon such as the Brakk or to switch over to a weapon that can potentially deal more damage, but requires more tactical use.

 

 

As for Weapon Balance, I just equip an Extinguished key nowadays and the game is much more challenging and therefore fun.

[MDRLOz]

It is sad that you have to do that Sixty5 to gain some challenge. I might just give that a go. 

 

I agree that having different weapon mechanics is fun. However the problem is then that the game does not give you scenarios where they are useful. 

 

The castanas are a lovely weapon and good fun. However their no situation in the game where I cannot just Brak my way through with great efficiency. 

 

Also are castanas silent? 

[Sixty5]

It is sad that you have to do that Sixty5 to gain some challenge. I might just give that a go. 

 

I agree that having different weapon mechanics is fun. However the problem is then that the game does not give you scenarios where they are useful. 

 

The castanas are a lovely weapon and good fun. However their no situation in the game where I cannot just Brak my way through with great efficiency. 

 

Also are castanas silent? 

I believe they are silent.

 

Also Castanas beat everything if you are farming ODD, throw a couple into a Vortex and the stacked electric procs will wipe everything out even at wave 60. It actually makes ODD a very relaxing game mode, and great if you want to feed your buddies some exp.

 

Also, speaking of a

, I have a little something I am working on right now. A little test of sorts for the community.

[Traeyze]

#1
Unique/special snowflake around here denotes someone who thinks they are really unique when in reality they are following an existing trend/really trite. Did the show Daria play in the UK? Like, arty people who go on about how cool and original they are. It's based on the idea that all snowflakes are unique and therefore no snowflakes are meaningfully unique.

All games/tv shows/websites/everything ever go through the 'it was better in the old days' thing. I'm relatively new but even in just the last 4 months the shifts being made I personally see as being for the better [i came right at the end of the reign of the Soma when it was pretty much all you ever saw and the fact there are now a bunch of viable alternatives is a step in the right direction as far as I am concerned].

#2
They did say you could only have one of them at a time, a stat one or a statless, based on what they've noted on streams that I've read. This seems to suggest that there will be some sort of tricky change later that will make the statless one more desirable. Might have something to do with the stat helmets missing out on something that statless one can get [extra slot, maybe, etc].

I don't hate the idea of a 'helmet' slot on the frame that uses mods that are helmet specific, like the Aura mods. I don't see the can of worms, it is just more mods in the pool and allowing for more complex builds.

I'd remove them all and just focus on the Focus and additional mod slots first, though. I agree that the helmets aren't the gamedefiners they once were.

lol @ forums, that is the way it goes unfortunately. On everything.

#3
I am not usually into this sort of thing but I enjoyed it. I really hated Red vs Blue, but I didn't play Halo nor was I a part of the online scene at the time so it is nice having something I can actually relate to.

Re: Soma

DE seems pretty content with the Soma and it is worth noting that a 4 forma Soma will get you to around half an hour in a T3surv before you start to feel ammo issues/DPS start to stutter, after that frame abilities become a lot more integral to progress. I fail to see how this is an OHPEE weapon considering it has a very clear place within the scale, and this is with 4 forma no less. To me it seems like it is the standard weapons should indeed be compared to, the developers are well aware it has been for multiple versions and chosen not to change it despite that.

I feel the real issue with the Soma isn't the DPS per se, it is that other weapons that have comparable DPS have gimmicks that make using them trickier to balance out the damage while the Soma doesn't. Latron Prime might have a high theoretical DPS but it is a lot harder to use well and is a lot less flexible, even with the buff it is still not a weapon most people will feel is stronger or more significantly more reliable than the Soma. Paris and Dread both have huge DPS, Phage, etc. There are a lot of weapons that can do the damage the Soma can but all of them have gameplay mechanics that are tricky [albeit fun]. Meanwhile Soma is so easy: it is multi range, hitscan, uses crit based damage, has a good proc, etc.

My response is not necessarily to make the Soma weaker, rather to make other weapons stronger/more balanced in the risk/reward balance. The Boltor Prime is a good example: it has a higher DPS , but outside of 15 metres the aim and projectile speed makes it really hard to aim. It is not Soma 2, because it behaves and needs to be used really differently. It lacks crit damage as well, which has an undue advantage when used against weak points by stacking. Etc etc. The Soma should have average DPS but be balanced by being reliable while the other weapons offer other takes on the balance.

That said I am someone who is pushing for a general push towards more focus on the 30 to 100 range of levels and making more things viable for that range. If your response to the current difficulty issues is to make weapons weaker to make the starchart harder I'd imagine your stance would be 'they're ALL broken' whilst I say 'they aren't broken enough'.

Again it comes back to 'what is reasonable', and currently that is not possible to comment on until the next phase of gameplay is released and we get an idea of their power levels.

I pesonally think secondaries are better at the balancing act in general. Stug, Akstillettos, Magnus, Casatans, Detron... there is no shortage of viable secondaries and all of them have strong cases to be used in different scenarios. Unfortunately the Brakk does upset that balance a bit, a lot more significantly than the Soma does. Brakk is too clearly the winner while at least with the Soma there are serious contenders.
 

[MDRLOz]

That is a good list of reasons why the Soma is so usable. The accuracy is another thing that confuses me. I hear the gun can sport a maximum heavy calibre with very little drop in stability and accuracy.

 

Though the Brakk is very very good it still is not a long range weapon. It is very good at medium range up till 30 min T3 Survival but going beyond that you do have to go closer to get the same effect. Also at that point its punch through damage (if modded) starts to suffer and does not clean straight lines so easily. 

 

Basically a shotgun as your broken weapon at least gives other secondary a chance to be useful. A super accurate, hit scan, damage spewer does not give other normal rifles anywhere to go. 

 

Tetra, Karak and Hind are other rifles that should be in the ball park of the Soma. Tetra and Karak came out later and all three bow to its mercy by a massive mile. While also having fairly similar build requirements.

 

Also shotguns, we have had the Drakgoon, Tigris and Phage recently. Do any of these get any use after mastery cap? 

[Traeyze]

Heavy Cal is one of those debated mods. Most guns can survive a max HC, heck even the Vectis has a strong case for adding one DPS wise. Some weapon types handle it better than others though: rifles, particularly full autos, that tend to rely on fire rate for DPS as opposed to accuracy don't suffer so much as you can spray and pray. Not surprisingly the Soma being the best auto rifle is no different, it is just even less of a problem because it happened to be so accurate to begin with.... however it is definitely noticeable. Synapse and Flux handle it better, regardless.

 

Funnily enough I have fallen victim to what I hate: I don't have the Brakk so I am just parroting what I have heard. I guess I will have to try it out to really make a comparison.

 

But that is why the Soma is a funny point of contention. It is true that it is pretty damn good, and more than anything else is the best rifle just because it is so damn reliable and straightforward, and for people who are playing a game where running and sliding are paramount it is the gun that best lends to that by not having a lot of recoil, having good accuracy and having the highest DPS of the weapons that offer that balance.

 

That's why I would like to see more weapons that can humble the Soma in output, albeit at the cost of a more difficult mechanic. If Soma is the vanilla 'good to great' in every stat then other weapons on the same level [anything over mastery 6, primes, etc] should have a balance that is different but still usable [Latron gets range and accuracy but loses auto, Boltor gets damage but loses range, bows get damage but lose fire rate, etc]. It is worth noting that eve though the Boltor does do more damage a lot of people will stick with their Somas just because of the range issues [same as with the Flux and Synapse].

 

Someone mentioned earlier and now you've alluded to it in the idea of 'other normal rifles having nowhere to go':if a stronger weapon that fit the basic niche Soma does currently [straightforward rifle] came along it would just replace the Soma and to that I say... fair enough? I am not sure why there is a spirit so readily against making older weapons redundant. The Prime versions of weapons already demonstrates this will occur, the Prime Soma is inevitable and will make the forums explode. A weapon that is just the soma with better stats will come one day and I welcome that... so long as it is into a context where there are weapons that can compete [admittedly I would make this new rifle less impressive dps wise comparatively, the Soma has taught us some things after all].

 

The Karak is only 4 or 5 mastery I think, and the others I am not sure. I think that initially there was going to be some sort of weapon progression, as weapons were clearly getting stronger as you moved up it is just that it all sort of... S#&$ itself. I have no idea why either. The fact that new players can build primes is just sloppy and pointless. The fact that the strongest weapons in the game are mastery 6 or not mastery locked at all is a whole other argument you could get into, I suppose.

 

I had heard Phage had phenomenal output but on the forums it is hard to know what people mean by that. It is true that shotguns and snipers really need a rebalance or buff to make them viable. Rifles and Bows did well with update 12 so I actually have pretty high hopes. Hek/Sobek Prime could be an end game changer, without a doubt.

I only started a few months ago so the quick early game progression and escalation in output of the weapons I have encountered have made me hitting rank 10 and noticing the plateau a bit jarring. I find it especially odd as past 40 minutes into a T3 survival your weapons, even the Soma and Boltor, increasingly become redundant compared to the 'broken' abilities of a few frames, and to me that seems such a basic and glaring area that needs to be explored whilst people that have been playing for twice as long as me seem intent on not exceeding level 30 enemies or output.

 

Which is more reasonable? Who knows. I like big numbers though, so my intentions are towards those.

[MDRLOz]

Well the problem is that we dont really have weapon Niches in the game. There should be and damage 2.0 swas trying to allow this withbase damage types. However all weapons doing elemental damage trump the base stats as damage.

 

My understanding is as follow. For rifle you can use 4 +90% elemental damage mods. Obviously these combine into new elements with new armour penetrating effects but for the most part you get +360% more damage from elemental this dwarfs the basic 100% damage of the weapon and makes the slash, Impact and puncture a little less important. The game should use those base values first and then work out elemental damage. So to hurt Grineer you want puncture damage. Then after the bullet hits it works out how much damage the bullet does and then works out elemental damage as a percentage of that. Current system is that Bullet hits along with elemental damage based on maximum possible damage the bullet could have done. 

 

Also it would nice to see other environments/situations where certain weapons are disadvantaged. How about un-reachable mobs that are actually sniping you from up high behind an anti-tenno shield and you have to snipe them back. How about a room where the walls are electrified, your ranged weapons are disabled in this room due to electrical/magnetic field or just them dang magnets. You have to melee but if your melee weapon touches the wall you get electrocuted. Thus benefiting things like daggers. 

 

How about the current weather of the level affects the weapons used. Infested weaponry does better on earth and infested maps due to sensing large amounts of biomass nearby. How about energy based weapons do more damage on Jupiter because of the gasses making up the atmosphere. How about on cold/Ice levels energy guns are less effective because the batteries cant heat up but automatic rifles get firing speed buff (like +5%) because they can cool quicker at the lower temperature. 

 

They could be small effects like that but it allows the game to give more weapons areas in which they can be useful. More Niches and opportunities to use a variety of weapons for best affect. 

[bejuizb]

MDR, my Tigris is my primary shotgun. Nothing else in my arsenal comes even close to the devastation it can dish out. The Tigris sucks according to the Warframe community because of two things: one, it is situational. Two, it is very skill intensive. This community has degraded over the past 8 months to the point where even a slight sneeze by the dev team sets them on fire. The rev team is forced to make modifications to a large number of topics and ideas because they rely on the players for the success of the game. And pissing thousands of people off is not the way to success.

People have become quite complacent, with the confidence that if they scream loud enough, the devs will listen. I miss those days in this game where skill and manipulation of game mechanics separated the happy players from the butthurt. Now the situation is like this: on, I don't like this mechanic. Instead of working around it and continue playing, let me just hop onto the forums, pull out a bunch on stupid words and rage about it. Skill and tactics be damned.

If my words don't make it clear, I blame the general community for the decline in the game. I have very, very strong emotions about the people who frequent the forums and spout Drabble about "endgame" and DPS.

Edited March 25, 2014 by bejuizb

[Sixty5]

Skillcap is a pretty big issue with this game at the moment. Once you have the mods for it, running through levels pushing 4 every-so-often is the most efficient and easiest way to play, hell I'm guilty of it myself (curse you repetitive missions for RNG-locked item!)

 

Stuff like Rhino and the Soma have a very low skill-cap to use and, even so, are still extremely powerful, whereas higher skillcap frames/gear take more effort for the same of lesser results.

 

Regardless, I'll stick to my Underpowered frame and her marksman rifle.

[MDRLOz]

MDR, my Tigris is my primary shotgun. Nothing else in my arsenal comes even close to the devastation it can dish out. The Tigris sucks according to the Warframe community because of two things: one, it is situational. Two, it is very skill intensive. 

Cool A Tigris user! We need more users of this beautiful weapon.

 

Do not get me wrong I love the shotguns and odd weapons in this game. Strun-> Sobek -> Strun Wraith -> Boar Prime. That is the order of awesomeness I used shotguns in. Recently I was interested by the tigris but could not get it to work for me, the Drakgoon seems fun and I will need to get back to it and the Phage seems mental and silly damage. 

 

I also love the idea of situational weaponry, and if you check my last post you'll see I would like to see more situations and niches. I also love new weapon mechanics. However I feel if a weapon that requires high skill to use it should be rewarded. Does the Tigris reward that skill? or do other shotguns provide more and are easier to use? 

 

What situations do you feel the Tigris excels at and when do you use it? 

 

 

Also, speaking of a 

, I have a little something I am working on right now. A little test of sorts for the community.

 

I keep forgetting to say Sixty5. Nice video, I will give this a go.

 

 

People have become quite complacent, with the confidence that if they scream loud enough, the devs will listen. I miss those days in this game where skill and manipulation of game mechanics separated the happy players from the butthurt. Now the situation is like this: on, I don't like this mechanic. Instead of working around it and continue playing, let me just hop onto the forums, pull out a bunch on stupid words and rage about it. Skill and tactics be damned.

 

Some very true words here Bejuizb. De even made mention of this in their last live-stream that they get conflicting messages form the community. Some people say Buff/Nerf X and then other people tell them opposite. Now it could just be that some people are in a certain area of the game (early game, Mid game, End game, crazy survival mentalists) and so see the game differently. Who's opinion is better for the long term use of X? Peoples opinions mostly only see their use of X. 

 

For some players this they will have alot more experience then others. I personally think that players can only feedback after X mastery and having to prove they have watched dev streams. It would be the only way to get people to give Informed feedback instead of the hickle de pickledly stuff we get now. 

Edited March 25, 2014 by MDRLOz

[Sixty5]

I keep forgetting to say Sixty5. Nice video, I will give this a go.

The thread will hopefully be up in the next 24 hours for the challenge, I'm still working on the rewards for it as of now, might just have to delay those.

[Traeyze]

Loz - I completely agree. Having physical damage types factor higher in the damage calculation types would immediately fix the problem of most weapons being far too versatile. The Soma being Slash based should be a factor, the fact that Critical ignores so many things is part of why it is so flexible/universally useful, then to have elemental doing its own thing on top of that is just odd.

One other issue is that elemental mods tend to trump most other mods that might potentially make it into builds because they are just so good currently. It is really hard to argue for a charged chamber, hammershot, shred, +physical type mods, etc, where an elemental will just add so much more. I've seen a few pretty convincing arguments that a lot of the time another element is more viable than even a Heavy Cal in damage calculations/general output. It is not necessarily that I want elements to be weaker, it is more that I would like other factors to be a bigger play in output and what you choose to include.

bejuizb - I must admit that of all the games I have played Warframe has proven the one where Devs take the most feedback, whether that is a good thing or not is open to debate. I suspect it is part of the reason so many elements of the game are so half done: every time they start focussing on something that was requested the forums arbitrarily elect a new thing to whinge about. They start fixing Melee, something we knew would be time consuming, so the forums instead endlessly banter about how end game is S#&$, even if they already let us know that is coming after melee. But that would involve waiting and ain't nobody got time for that in Warframe.

Sixty5 - Do you believe it would be better to nerf the Rhino and Soma or to scale them out by making higher level enemies more common?

I know what you mean though. I really enjoy the Vectis lately and still maintain the Grinlok is a good weapon despite the forum backlash.


I'm going to say that the most interesting mentality that I've seen in this game isn't even to do with what kind of output our weapons should have but rather other what 'grind' means and what people are willing to grind for.

People get a new weapon. They will happily spend the next few days putting 4 forma onto it.
People want to build a Zephyr, they need 600 oxium which on a Kappa run at around 30 oxium per run would be essentially 20 runs. Let's double that, let's make it 40 runs.
To me the logic is simple: while farming Oxium, I leveled up frames and weapons. To me I felt I was at least doubling my efficiency.

But the outcry that Oxium as a mechanic received was insane. People that are higher ranks than me, 14 and 15 who have mastery grinded endless trash weapons, complaining that they had to farm oxium.

In doing so a very simple mechanic that could have been used to level lock weapons [you make it so that material X is only available on planets that it is unreasonable to assume a newer player could farm] and give people a reason to visit particular planets [material x is only available on one planet, Plut finally has a reason to visit if you want high end weapons, etc].

Of all the mentalities this is the one that struck me as the oddest, even moreso than being 'too strong'. I guess that is because I came from a Monster Hunter community before this.