Define End Game

[(PSN)Quatraa]

Warning: This post could be considered a rant but it's not as I assure you it's intent is to critisize in an constructive way using my personal game experience. :)

 

I would personally like to see some high difficulty boss like missions with some form of tactic to defeating the boss similar to the Saturn boss but with a lot more difficulty. I am talking something similar to the raid missions on World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy eleven's Notorious Monster's and Final Fantasy Fourteen's coil fights, (I mean I have not formad my prefered weapons six to eight times just to kill low level enemies). Now I do realise that this game is far from an MMO, but the idea of having a boss fight that requires some form of team play in this (team co-operative game) other than point and shoot and hope for the best would be very refreshing. Also, just a quick note, why not add some form of cover system as seen in Mass Effect or Naughty Dog's Uncharted. I swear that Warframe is the only third person shooter I have played where there is no snap-to cover system in place. Ninja's are meant to be in the shadows not stood around with sign post saying "shoot me I'm here!" lol. Increasing A.I would be a massive game changer too as enemies just swarm you and run towards you, or just stand there like a pleb even if you're shooting them right in the face!

 

However this brings me to another topic that I will not go into depth with but would like to mention. Digital Extremes need to make the actual warframes meld into some form of a class system. People always seem to tell me that Rhino is a tank class and can take heavy damage and is the best as crowd control, Okay, do not get me wrong he is capable of being a massive bullet sponge on low- to meduim level enemies but other than being able to revive the team should they fall and suspend enemis in the air for a short period (please people try not to mod Rhino Stomp to do damage and instead increase range & duration as its so much better for team play, esp for t3 defence) does this really benefit the team? Why not remove some of his useless abilitys like Rhino charge and replace it with some form of Provoke ability to taunt the enemy to attack him instead of his team? Why not Give Trinity a bigger roll in end game content such as the super hard bosses that I mentioned as I hardly see anybody playing her because there is no need to even have a healer in most cases, heck even Banshee's sonar ability would really shine on something like this. Me and my friends regularly run bosses with an level thirty Braton-MK1 no potatoe or mods just to make the game challenging.

 

The problem for me having every frame with the exception of standard Frost as I have the prime and Nekros, (yes i bough oberon and vault so sue me) is that they all feel the same with the exception on how fast they run and how they look. I have extensivly forma'd and modded each frame for offencive capabilitys and utilty against each faction and frequently switch depending on the content I do just to freshen up the game but it has made the game too easy and their is no challenge unless I want to go wave one hundred plus on Orokin Derelict Defence or fifty min survival runs. I love the cicero event it was something fresh as I did not expect that I would enjoy taking photo's of plants lol. The invasion system was a nice perk but running each mission five times is a bit lazy in my opinion and I would rather see increased difficulty.

 

I love the game mainly because it reminds me of the Mass Effect 3's third person multiplayer mode which I adored, however the repetetive content and lac-luster rewards are starting to grate. I did a foutry-five min Tier Three survival yesterday and every reward was either the same warframe BP or a measly ammount of credits.

 

Eight man raid missions would be interesting but then you have to remember that the game can bearly seem to handle a mobile defence with four players spouting pretty warframe ability graphics without chugging to four or five frames per second. In that respect I do not see an eight man raid happening any time soon but the idea is sure a good one.

 

I could discuss more ideas that I have but this post is already beginning to grow a bit large. However I hope people  can see this as a informative player experience who is trying to throw a few ideas into the pan in the hopes that one day it might happen, but I will not keep my hopes up lol!

 

Kind regards,

 

Q

 

Edit~ Spelling.

Edited February 28, 2014 by (PS4)Quatraa

[Santiak]

conclave ranking scaled enemies that's what i want :T got like 1.5k+ conclave points? here's a bunch of level 300+ enemies for you to play with + Grustag 3 with rank 300 too :T

While a bit off-topic, as I do not consider tougher missions end-game, I do whole-heartedly agree that difficulty needs to scale better - and have actually thought of the same thing as you mention.

Mission difficulty scales according to total conclave points of participating players, on top of the natural progression scale of later levels - perhaps with an exponential increase in scaling, based on the natural difficulty of the map. As it stands, it's only really Nightmare maps that at any point have felt rewarding - in my personal opinion - purely because they were harder from the get-go, with the added bonus of people tending to actually play co-operatively.

[Xelorx]

Dude, seriously, knock that beta thing off.

This is not a beta.

This is for sale, it's in full production, it's avalaible for the masses and nobody is actively asking for feedback after you have a game.

No tests are being run here and they are already taking money.

And most important, the PS4 version is the same game, just a patch behind, and it is not labelled as beta.

I still regard it as a beta. While you are talking facts about it not being beta, the game is still undergoing changes. I expect the next person to quote this post would be saying that the game hasn't changed much. Given that it is still very much farmframe, the placeholders for bosses are disappearing one by one, the HUD/UI is constantly getting tweaks, Warframe balancing is still undergoing, and the game doesn't last long if you aren't trying to craft that newest weapon.

I can sink as many hours as I want into getting the latest weapon/Warframe and optimizing the best build for each one, but for as long as that continues to be the task you're doing after anything else (like completing the star chart for one), the game lacks a true objective. If that doesn't scream that the game is a work in progress, I don't know what does.

I can definitely understand why many feel it doesn't behave like a beta, mostly because of the fact that they're still taking money. By that assumption alone, Minecraft was in full release, before it actually did, because Notch was taking money and actually wasn't actively looking for feedback. He looked for ideas and bugs of course, but even in Beta could you tell the client was unstable and needed more (course, it being a sandbox creative game, it can always use more, thus why mods are amazing).

DE is certainly a bigger company, but a small team started with this, and only got bigger because of all of us. Last year, I'd see people saying they'd be willing to give DE as much money as they could, not for the platinum, but for the sake of continuing development. We enabled them to get this far. They're not being funded by a publisher, they're being funded by us. There are certainly still many changes left to go from now, but they did give a LOT more incentive to buy platinum since last year. However. I still only see it as a way to support them, not support me, because I can get any new weapon or Warframe that I want. It'd still help them more than me to buy anything.

They just need to give us a reason to actually stay, which is where getting OUT of beta would be a great way to start, but not without the ideas (and polish) necessary implemented into the game first.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Xelorx

[Rennagade]

End game is the massive boss fights that push even the strongest builds to the limits.

Its the territory conquest that has popped up in so many mmos.

Its building strongholds and alliances.

Its being the front runners when new content is released

and lastly its pvp

[Xelorx]

End game is the massive boss fights that push even the strongest builds to the limits.

Its the territory conquest that has popped up in so many mmos.

Its building strongholds and alliances.

Its being the front runners when new content is released

and lastly its pvp

Hah well I don't think direct PvP would be the focus of endgame for this game. The badlands is a good way to start competition and adding incentive to playing more though.

[FlyDungas]

Never understood the concept really I'd just like something more open ended that breaks from the generic model of "mission runs"

[Methanoid]

I was just wondering what people really wanted to see in warframe's end game

 

be as specific as possible if you can too, i really want to know what you really want to see in warframe when anyone reaches end game

 

 

do you want like, an exclusive end game faction of super powerful monsters?

 

raid-like missions that can host more than the standard 4 man group?

 

some kind of interactive clan vs clan dojo raid/defence pvp thing?

 

more mods that are exclusive to level 30/mastery rank X players?

 

mini games in the dojo even?

 

gametypes that have meaning and are fun and have a visible scoring system of sorts as a secondary "feel good factor", currently people/clans are only seen to be "good" if they go screamign and shouting on the forums to say they are, complete with screenshots or youtube vid because the scoring system we have is inadequate and basically unseen/unknown as are clans in general and the people contained in them.

 

if no1 see's or cares about individual players or their clans then theres no "bragging rights" or cool factor for people to show off or perform well and theres no real goals to achieve.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Methanoid

[ChaosBloodterfly]

Please read my post again. Take note of the following points:

* I don't want to remove the current f2p features. In fact the f2p is the only asset Warframe has since it's very lackluster in every aspect a game can be.

Eh Warframe's pretty good on the design and setting department, and the customization (without going into Japanese-mecha-fiftysix-different-knee-joints territory), and the gameplay is above-average. I mean I spent a good amount of time just going FWOOOO! FWOOOOO! with Zephyr's 1. Warframe is probably the best overall online action RPG PvE game there is (that I'm aware of, and I used to spend a good amount of time looking for one; would actually go with Dragon Nest if it wasn't managed by Nexon). Which is a somewhat narrow category, but it is something.

[Methanoid]

Eh Warframe's pretty good on the design and setting department, and the customization (without going into Japanese-mecha-fiftysix-different-knee-joints territory), and the gameplay is above-average. I mean I spent a good amount of time just going FWOOOO! FWOOOOO! with Zephyr's 1. Warframe is probably the best overall online action RPG PvE game there is (that I'm aware of, and I used to spend a good amount of time looking for one; would actually go with Dragon Nest if it wasn't managed by Nexon). Which is a somewhat narrow category, but it is something.

 

yet your average new warframe player lasts anything from a week to less than a month.  (based on what clan members often mention in various threads, and my own observations as a clanleader and friends/family i asked to play with me).

 

The game itsself, content wise lasts for a few months at best, and "endgame" isnt, or shouldnt revolve around lvling tons of weapons you wont ever use again in places you dont really need to visit, thats just wrong.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Methanoid

[Killist]

Exclusive cosmetic/weapons/frame for people on top 100 weekly leaderboard.

[Phantasmo]

Eh Warframe's pretty good on the design and setting department, and the customization (without going into Japanese-mecha-fiftysix-different-knee-joints territory), and the gameplay is above-average. I mean I spent a good amount of time just going FWOOOO! FWOOOOO! with Zephyr's 1. Warframe is probably the best overall online action RPG PvE game there is (that I'm aware of, and I used to spend a good amount of time looking for one; would actually go with Dragon Nest if it wasn't managed by Nexon). Which is a somewhat narrow category, but it is something.

 

You are right and I stand corrected. Actually the art is very nice, specially settings. Most enemies and warframes look good too.

Some music tracks are enjoyable as well (there's one that is absolutely shameful though).

 

I insist on the rest not being good.

Movement is borked, just as that. You end up rolling no matter what you do.

Guns and weaponry are boring for the most part.

 

And there is no balance at all. Abolutely NO balance.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Phantasmo

[Kamal965]

How can we get end game when we don't even have a proper early or mid-game?

[fatpig84]

You are right and I stand corrected. Actually the art is very nice, specially settings. Most enemies and warframes look good too.

Some music tracks are enjoyable as well (there's one that is absolutely shameful though).

 

I insist on the rest not being good.

Movement is borked, just as that. You end up rolling no matter what you do.

Guns and weaponry are boring for the most part.

 

And there is no balance at all. Abolutely NO balance.

 

Actually there is some form of balance.

Shocking eh ?

 

DE actually did balance sufficiently enough that a good 80% of their content (solar system and alerts) can be done with relatively basic gear. That is why they mention specifically they balance the game up to level 30.

 

I have taken my old IAHgames Braton, no forma, and complete everything the game has to offer in the basic solar system.

This is the beauty of damage 2.0, back in the Damage 1.0, most weapons are already getting negated at Ceres.

 

Orokin Derelicts and high level void stuff obviously need better gear, but that is just expected.

 

What I believe DE balancing is that they ensure most content is accessible even with a simple boltor / tetra / braton / karak.

Heck all frames can complete the most basic content. So any player with his Excal can complete most of the solar system with just the basic assault rifle.

 

That is their idea of balancing. But the only wrench in their plans is that it depends on the mods.

So that is where balance hinges on RnG.

Edited February 28, 2014 by fatpig84

[Methanoid]

Exclusive cosmetic/weapons/frame for people on top 100 weekly leaderboard.

 

your average player doesnt even know those exist.

[Methanoid]

How can we get end game when we don't even have a proper early or mid-game?

 

agreed, and i keep saying the most important part is the tutorial/beginner experience, its a train wreck, loads of ppl join, compliment the games looks/play, then you dont see them in a week or 2, typically through sheer frustration and a clear lack of info.

 

players who leave typically dont come back, in days of old the saying "put up or shut up" may have worked on many early popular online games as there was very little competition, however in todays market, theres a wealth of other things to go play.

 

i stuck to eve online form jul 2003 onwards, hoping for improvements, their planned planetary flight, they had a demo showing it, then later dumped it, all since then, content involved garbage no1 used and filled the content gap with ships, more ships, yet mroe ships, even more ships no1 wanted, followed by yes, more ships, there were no other harsh online space mmo's so i stuck with it, now tho theres other options.

 

Same applies to WOW, UT99 and loads of other games i clung onto, theres tons of alternatives and if a game loses its playerbase i cant imagine many coming back when theres plenty of alternatives here or coming soon.

 

the faster DE address the learning experience and get around to providing clear information ingame to stop the need for a 3rd party wiki the better.

[mercenaryfighter2947]

PLAY AS THE CORPUS OR GRINEER THAT IS ALL I REQUEST!

[zebar1313]

Actually there is some form of balance.

Shocking eh ?

 

DE actually did balance sufficiently enough that a good 80% of their content (solar system and alerts) can be done with relatively basic gear. That is why they mention specifically they balance the game up to level 30.

 

I have taken my old IAHgames Braton, no forma, and complete everything the game has to offer in the basic solar system.

This is the beauty of damage 2.0, back in the Damage 1.0, most weapons are already getting negated at Ceres.

 

Orokin Derelicts and high level void stuff obviously need better gear, but that is just expected.

 

What I believe DE balancing is that they ensure most content is accessible even with a simple boltor / tetra / braton / karak.

Heck all frames can complete the most basic content. So any player with his Excal can complete most of the solar system with just the basic assault rifle.

 

That is their idea of balancing. But the only wrench in their plans is that it depends on the mods.

So that is where balance hinges on RnG.

A simple fix, give the players hornet strike and serration for completing the tutorial or better yet. finishing the mastery test for these weapons. This will help move them forward.