The Simple Way To Fix Stalker/harvy/g3 Rng!

[adoomgod]

In fact it's so obvious I don't know how I didn't see it sooner.

 

Someone here suggested making them spawn every 20 or x missions or something which is a bad idea because then they'd become an annoying time-able interruption. No, the real answer is so very very simple and programmable:

 

LET DEATH MARKS ACCUMULATE! With diminishing returns.

 

Every 5 invasions you side with grineer gives you 1 harvy death mark and every 5 invasions you side with corpus gives you 1 G3 death mark. If you already have multiple of one faction's death marks, getting the opposing faction's death mark just subtracts one from the others you haves a (i.e. If you have 10 G3 death marks and do 5 invasions siding with grineer you don't get a harvy mark, you just have your 10 G3 marks reduced to 9) Having harvester or G3 spawn on YOU resets your death marks to 0.

 

The first death mark you get for G3 or harvy gives you a 3% for them to spawn. The second  and third Death mark gives you another 2% for a total of 5% and 7% respectively. The fourth fifth and 6th death mark give 1% to bring you to 10%. The rest gives you .5% up to a cap of 20% chance of them spawning. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

 

In a group, your death mark chance for them to spawn is the highest person's death mark chance PLUS 25% of everyone else's death mark chance,and they will always target the highest person in the group. (Highest person always loses mark) That means if all 4 players have 20%, you get 20% +5% +5% +5% for a total of 35% chance! The person targeted would be random since they all have the same amount.

 

This idea ROCKS because it doesn't take away their chance of appearing unexpectedly, but does let you achieve more "infamy" against them that makes them want to specifically target you. It will let us, the players have more fun KNOWING we are getting closer to them spawning instead of this terrible RNG limbo where the chance is forever low and random. 

 

Before you say, "but Doom, 20% is awfully high" I'd say, they'd likely spawn before you ever reach 20% Because you'd have to do 5 invasions for the 3%, 15 to reach 7%, 30 to reach 10%, and 130 to reach 20%. As you are grinding these out your mark is accumulating meaning they can spawn before you ever reach 20% resetting you back to 0% You will be constantly bettering your odds of them spawning.

 

This can apply to the stalker to if the players/De wants it to, at half or even a quarter of the rate. (10% cap after 130 bosses, 17.5% with 4 people capped, or for a quarter of the rate, 10% cap after 260 bosses)

 

This doesn't break game's logic because while you can farm marks it still makes sense- your increasing presence against the faction increases Alad/Hek's desire to sick their pets on you. This doesn't give them a static boring SET time to appear so you can't just time it and there is still some luck involved, but this will effectively solve the problem of people doing 230 runs WITHOUT EVER SEEING THEM.

 

Finally, "But Doom, G3's mod drops are too good, people will be able to farm these mods too easily."

1. It's a PvE game i don't care.

2. If it's an issue they can nerf mod chances thus giving parts a better chance to drop of G3. Weee. 

^The above is not a bad nerf if done in moderation. The main reason people are doing G3 is for the Brakk that they missed, and so long as the mod chances aren't nerfed too hard, (to a minimum of 5-10% chance to drop mod per grustrag?) you'd still have a reliable way to obtain their mods. I guarantee people will still look for them given the 4 great mods they drop.

 

This is the best solution I can think of for G3 and Harvy. I think it's a very good one. If there is a flaw it would only lay in the numbers I've chosen. Maybe they're too low, maybe they're too high, but the general concept of this new marks 2.0 system is a great one. As more stalker-type monsters are released, it can even lead to fated encounters of MORE THAN ONE APPEARING AT A TIME! BWAHAHAHHAHAAHAH. 

Edited March 3, 2014 by adoomgod

[darklord5830]

I would suggest some sort of alert that guarantees a spawn. Sort of like that Darvo alert a while back. It's still RNG but it's another opportunity.

But I like your idea too.

Edited March 3, 2014 by darklord5830

[LeAtlas]

from what i've heard if you get a G3 death mark you wont have harvester they kinda cancels off each other out :T

[Sarmon]

I really hope DE considers doing this. Really good ideas.

 

And besides, I'm always happy to see ideas for RNG reduction.

[adoomgod]

I would suggest some sort of alert that guarantees a spawn. Sort of like that Darvo alert a while back. It's still RNG but it's another opportunity.

But I like your idea too.

An alert clashes with the idea that they are hunting us, not the other way around. The lotus wouldn't send us after them either, as she wanted us to run from the G3.

 

My way let's grinders improve their chances to the point that even with RNG they can pretty assuredly get them to spawn without making an exact "they will spawn NOW", so it will still catch you unexpectedly. I don't want to play them being like, oh 20 missions, ok guys they are coming this round, let's afk at start.

 

I believe one term for my system is "weighted RNG".

Edited March 3, 2014 by adoomgod

[CY13ERPUNK]

ill just leave this here:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/187059-hunted-20-or-the-wayout-of-getting-bored-of-rng/

[adoomgod]

 

ill just leave this here:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/187059-hunted-20-or-the-wayout-of-getting-bored-of-rng/

 

That thread literally says it does not involve G3 or Harvy. He is talking about a completely separate system to make high level leader-class mobs attack you to add challenge to the game. While that thread inspired this one, it doesn't apply here and isn't relative to the conversation. 

 

He's talking about adding a new system for challenge, I'm talking about fixing a broken system that currently exists.

 

@Azure_Kyte below this post, I never saw your thread. Same concept. Great minds think alike? Though I think the numbers you suggested would be too easy you did say it's just for the sake of representation ;). I think the ones I selected are a fair average base point, perhaps leaning on the easier grind side of things. 

Edited March 3, 2014 by adoomgod

[Azure_Kytia]

Pretty much pegged a similar idea out the other day, too. Less focused on balancing deathmarks, as they are separate Deathmarks for separate villains.
 

 

I'm all for a function which gives you half of the spawn rate again for each deathmark you get without an appearance by a Stalker-Type enemy. For a Stalker appearance, that's 6+ Assassinations. For Harvester or a Grustrag appearance, that's 5 missions each. Upgrading your chances every 5 missions would be a way to enhance your chances of getting a spawn without making it too easy to abuse.

E.g.

Get 1st Deathmark > 2% Spawn chance per mission

Get 2nd Deathmark > 3% Spawn chance per mission

Get 3rd Deathmark > 4.5% Spawn chance per mission

Get 4th Deathmark > 6.75% Spawn chance per mission

Get 5th Deathmark > 10.12% Spawn chance per mission
Get 6th Deathmark > 15.18% Spawn chance per mission

 

etc etc. Have it cap out at some point, maybe the 4th or 5th iteration? Would be cool, though. The percentage chances are purely for the sake of representation. Pay them no mind.

 

Edited March 3, 2014 by Azure_Kyte

[Sedant]

I disagree, they are intended to be a grind and are fine the way they are. Otherwise we would be giving away some of the best weapons in the game. They are not meant to be easily obtained as much as you want them to be.

[adoomgod]

I disagree, they are intended to be a grind and are fine the way they are. Otherwise we would be giving away some of the best weapons in the game. They are not meant to be easily obtained as much as you want them to be.

 

DE has claimed they know RNG is a problem. If you think my numbers are too high they can always be LOWERED but having a static 3% chance (SUPPOSEDLY) with +.5% per additionally marked person (SUPPOSEDLY) is not working for a lot of players. The a that some people are doing the invasion over 200 times without seeing them is ludicrous, because even when you see them you have a low chance of getting what you need.

 

Until DE states that it changed it's mind about RNG and the grind is fine as intended I don't think your argument is valid. No developer wants to create a situation where a huge population isn't seeing new content despite looking for it extremely efficiently.

 

Finally, we only have half the mastery ranks there will be. (15/30) Brakk may be the best now but it will probably not stay that way. Let's see what the end game has in store for us. Oh and a real point against your argument is that the stug, a monster of a secondary, is mastery rank 0. There are plenty of end game weapons easily obtainable. (penta is cheap and I'd argue more effective for end game defense/survival than brakk.)

Edited March 3, 2014 by adoomgod

[LeAtlas]

I disagree, they are intended to be a grind and are fine the way they are. Otherwise we would be giving away some of the best weapons in the game. They are not meant to be easily obtained as much as you want them to be.

you mean we can farm stug, soma and penta from those guys?

[Tulzscha]

Moved to the proper section.

[Onisa]

Two thing's really.

 

I don't like them canceling each other out. I'm currently marked by both, and that would mean I'm marked by neither.

Each one spawning in it's own tile set is enough to keep them apart.

 

How is your method any different from 'chances will go up each mission until it's a given at X'th mission'?

[adoomgod]

How is your method any different from 'chances will go up each mission until it's a given at X'th mission'?

 

Why does it have to be? It's a good method. And I give specific details on how to utilize it well. I'm not saying I'm smart, it's a simple idea. I just want the RNG improved

[InvaderMEEN]

I actually posted an idea for this a while back that seems to work sliiiiightly better than this- the spawn chance simply increases over time (assuming you have a mark).

 

But of course DE is it's usual ignorant self and ignores anything with less than 500 +1's.

 

Here's the link anyhow: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/169651-stalkerharvester-spawn-chance-increases-over-time/

[Onisa]

Why does it have to be? It's a good method. And I give specific details on how to utilize it well. I'm not saying I'm smart, it's a simple idea. I just want the RNG improved

 

But you started off with:

 

Someone here suggested making them spawn every 20 or x missions or something which is a bad idea because then they'd become an annoying time-able interruption.

 

I do believe they should be a little more common, but starting the thread off with 'the color red is awful but this is a great color called red' is a tad confusing.

[adoomgod]

But you started off with:

 

 

I do believe they should be a little more common, but starting the thread off with 'the color red is awful but this is a great color called red' is a tad confusing.

Wtf? That's not what I'm saying. I said that what led me to even think about this was someone's thread on how after getting marked you should get the harvy/g3 after 20 missions. This is bad because there's no chance involved and you know exactly when they will arrive taking out all the joy and glee from finally having them appear because the surprise is gone.

 

What I suggest is different.

[Onisa]

Wtf? That's not what I'm saying. I said that what led me to even think about this was someone's thread on how after getting marked you should get the harvy/g3 after 20 missions. This is bad because there's no chance involved and you know exactly when they will arrive taking out all the joy and glee from finally having them appear because the surprise is gone.

 

What I suggest is different.

Ah, so what you had seen was a suggestion for a tick down timer type method (every Xth mission get Y).

Not the raise the chance a little after every no-show so you're guaranteed an encounter by mission number X type suggestion I've seen a few times.

My bad.

[CY13ERPUNK]

That thread literally says it does not involve G3 or Harvy. He is talking about a completely separate system to make high level leader-class mobs attack you to add challenge to the game. While that thread inspired this one, it doesn't apply here and isn't relative to the conversation. 

 

He's talking about adding a new system for challenge, I'm talking about fixing a broken system that currently exists.

 

@Azure_Kyte below this post, I never saw your thread. Same concept. Great minds think alike? Though I think the numbers you suggested would be too easy you did say it's just for the sake of representation ;). I think the ones I selected are a fair average base point, perhaps leaning on the easier grind side of things.

extrapolation yo, try it

srsly just think outside that box you've built

[Daniels998]

I like the idea, but nope.

Because chances would be really high in that case. I'm aiming for a maximum of 5% every match (Trust me, 5% is a lot, you will surely encounter one (or three, who knows) guy in less than 30 matches).

 

I know that to get those high numbers you mean to do something like 200+ runs, and it's okay, but 5% every match is better than 20% after 200+ runs.

 

Anyway I still hope DE makes a chance, and fastly, because if a person wants so much a thing and doesn't succeed in his aim, despair can strike.

 

OH, I GOT A LOT OF DESPAIR; NERF STALKY PLS

[adoomgod]

I like the idea, but nope.

Because chances would be really high in that case. I'm aiming for a maximum of 5% every match (Trust me, 5% is a lot, you will surely encounter one (or three, who knows) guy in less than 30 matches).

 

I know that to get those high numbers you mean to do something like 200+ runs, and it's okay, but 5% every match is better than 20% after 200+ runs.

 

Anyway I still hope DE makes a chance, and fastly, because if a person wants so much a thing and doesn't succeed in his aim, despair can strike.

 

OH, I GOT A LOT OF DESPAIR; NERF STALKY PLS

This is just false as far as i know (the part about 5% being plenty). The current system is base 3% chance to get them to spawn solo +.5% per marked ally. that's 4.5% with a team and people are doing 200+ and never seeing them. People argue oh but i did 100 missions to get brakk. I'm saying that there are people who won't even get a piece of brakk in 200+ missions and this is just not fun, it's frustrating. 

 

As you said, players than want to grind for something specific should be able to, to some extent.

Edited March 3, 2014 by adoomgod

[GodSlayerXXX]

This is a brilliant idea:

 

"Get 1st Deathmark > 2% Spawn chance per mission

Get 2nd Deathmark > 3% Spawn chance per mission

Get 3rd Deathmark > 4.5% Spawn chance per mission

Get 4th Deathmark > 6.75% Spawn chance per mission

Get 5th Deathmark > 10.12% Spawn chance per mission
Get 6th Deathmark > 15.18% Spawn chance per mission"

Edited March 3, 2014 by GodSlayerXXX

[taiiat]

Every 5 invasions you side with grineer gives you 1 harvy death mark and every 5 invasions you side with corpus gives you 1 G3 death mark. If you already have multiple of one faction's death marks, getting the opposing faction's death mark just subtracts one from the others you haves a (i.e. If you have 10 G3 death marks and do 5 invasions siding with grineer you don't get a harvy mark, you just have your 10 G3 marks reduced to 9) Having harvester or G3 spawn on YOU resets your death marks to 0.

 

The first death mark you get for G3 or harvy gives you a 3% for them to spawn. The second  and third Death mark gives you another 2% for a total of 5% and 7% respectively. The fourth fifth and 6th death mark give 1% to bring you to 10%. The rest gives you .5% up to a cap of 20% chance of them spawning. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

 

In a group, your death mark chance for them to spawn is the highest person's death mark chance PLUS 25% of everyone else's death mark chance,and they will always target the highest person in the group. (Highest person always loses mark) That means if all 4 players have 20%, you get 20% +5% +5% +5% for a total of 35% chance! The person targeted would be random since they all have the same amount.

- maybe, perhaps, maybe. 

20% is rather high though(35% as a group is ludicrous). irrelevant that you had to play missions for that chance, still far too high.

shouldn't go above 5% for one player(1% per mark, limit to 5 obviously), additional players contributing 20.0% of their chance, meaning one mark(1%), would add 0.20%, five marks(5%), adding 1% - for a grand possible total of 8%. but the average group of players will be lower than that maximum possible total.

 

these 3 encounters are not supposed to be something you see several times a day. even my numbers feel a little high.

 

edit:

if you want permanent levels of stacking though... you can't balance that. that means just about everyone will spend all day playing Invasions.

those Invasions will be completed so fast you won't even be able to finish up the Defense mission (or w/e) you're in the middle of and exit to participate. people will just repeat the mission every 3 minutes or so, speedrunning it as fast as possible. 

 

 

not good.

Edited March 3, 2014 by taiiat

[GodSlayerXXX]

I would suggest some sort of alert that guarantees a spawn. Sort of like that Darvo alert a while back. It's still RNG but it's another opportunity.

But I like your idea too.

 

I am kind of for that but it takes away the mysterious nature of the stalker. Appearing when you least expect it. 

 

What i do agree on is that he needs to come way more often than he does now. 

[Yezzik]

"You're supposed to get it by running the content organically, guys!"

 

A year later:

 

"Er... why does nobody have the Brakk?"