Critique My Rhino Prime Build

[Squiintts]

This is where I'm at with it:

 

http://goo.gl/ZWjX1c

 

I guess the hardest concession I had to make was using a forma to remove the Aura Polarity.  But I feel like this build gives me the most versatility.  I can now use any aura mod without taking a big hit to my Mod Points.  In the mod slots currently occupied by Continuity, Intensify & Stretch can be swapped for the following: Flow, Iron Skin, Rush (based on what's necessary for the mission).  

 

This build doesn't actually "max" anything but I feel like I'm getting the best I can in everything without serious reductions in other areas.  Range is almost maxed while still giving +43% Power Strength & +55% Efficiency.  Roar only gives 71.5% damage boost (which is still pretty good), but if I swap the current 4/5 Overextended with a 2/5 Overextended, I get an additional 10% damage boost to Roar while only losing 7.5m to my ability range.

 

TL;DR - I think this build gives me the most versatility even though it does not max any one ability. Suggestions?

[Naftal]

I'd replace Redirection with Iron Skin and probably Overextended with something else.

[Squiintts]

I'd replace Redirection with Iron Skin and probably Overextended with something else.

 

While I do appreciate the input, I am looking for more informed answers.

[Haiova]

I would make this http://goo.gl/8LKUnq

Remember: The max power efficiency u can get is 75%

and over extented insn't all that good.

[Squiintts]

I would make this http://goo.gl/8LKUnq

Remember: The max power efficiency u can get is 75%

and over extented insn't all that good.

 

 

Thank you.  Help me better understand your reasoning here please:

 

First off you didn't use roar, which (based on my build) I obviously want to use.  But that aside, you sacrifice Overextended and Roar for Vitality and Iron Skin.  That's sacrificing a whole lot of utility for a great deal of Survivability.  If you were ever to get to a point in a game where you would need (740 health + 1110 shields + 2316 iron skin) 4166 "health", that would mean, in my opinion, that you are not killing guys fast enough.  Which does become a problem for anyone at some point.  But I would argue that in THAT situation the additional (almost) 20 meters that my stomp has for crowd control would be infinitely more useful then continuing to soak damage.

 

Also, you mention that overextended "isn't all that good".  I assume you mean because of the reduction in power strength.  On an ability like Rhino Stomp the additional 400 damage your build has over mine is negligible, it's a crowd control move, I'm not worried about damage.  However, I do see the validity of power strength when using Iron Skin, but I find Iron Skin lackluster.  Using Iron Skin causes increased damage to your warframe due to the aggro it causes.  So once the enemies are powerful enough that Iron Skin would make a great deal of difference, the increased damage you will take from multiple sources focusing on you, really stifles it's usefulness in my opinion, YMMV. 

 

Again I really do appreciate the input here and none of this is meant to sound antagonistic.  Please let me know if there is something I am missing here, or if my logic isn't sound.

[Seox]

How are you able to stay up reliably without iron skin or vitality?

 

I solo pretty much everything and find it difficult to survive on my frames without Redirection/Vitality, but I keep seeing people using builds that lack one or the other. I'm pretty comfortable with the game, and I expect that it's because others probably run with teams more than I do and take less damage as a result.

 

Appreciate any response! :]

[Svisma]

I wouldn't go for so much power strength. What I have learned when I use Rhino is that Range + Duration are useful. Duration for the Iron skin and Range for the Rhino Stomp (I only have Rhino Charge as it can be useful saving you'r metalass or someone else &#!).  

 

Here is what I use (I think - I am not at my computer but I am pretty sure this is the build I use). I have no issues for soloing VOID survival up to 45 min. 

I use a Soma (Critbuild) + Akvasto (Working on a critbuild) and Orthos Prime. You can use Steel Charge instead of Rifle Amp. 

 

Oh. I have that "speedy"  Vanguard helm aswell. 

 

Add me ingame and I could pair up with you on a VOID so you can see my build in action. Hope that I could help you in anyway - if not. Sorry for stealing some of your time :))

[Squiintts]

How are you able to stay up reliably without iron skin or vitality?

 

I solo pretty much everything and find it difficult to survive on my frames without Redirection/Vitality, but I keep seeing people using builds that lack one or the other. I'm pretty comfortable with the game, and I expect that it's because others probably run with teams more than I do and take less damage as a result.

 

Appreciate any response! :]

 

If soloing you would undoubtedly want Iron Skin.  I don't intend on soloing anything with this build.  Stomp and Roar allow for great team synergy and that is why I want to use them.  I would still say however that Redirection, Vitality and Iron Skin is a bit of overkill.  If you spec for power strength that should greatly improve Iron Skin and allow for another mod to take the spot of Redirection or Vitality (or both, maybe).

 

 

I wouldn't go for so much power strength. What I have learned when I use Rhino is that Range + Duration are useful. Duration for the Iron skin and Range for the Rhino Stomp (I only have Rhino Charge as it can be useful saving you'r metalass or someone else &#!).  

 

Here is what I use (I think - I am not at my computer but I am pretty sure this is the build I use). I have no issues for soloing VOID survival up to 45 min. 

I use a Soma (Critbuild) + Akvasto (Working on a critbuild) and Orthos Prime. You can use Steel Charge instead of Rifle Amp. 

 

Oh. I have that "speedy"  Vanguard helm aswell. 

 

Add me ingame and I could pair up with you on a VOID so you can see my build in action. Hope that I could help you in anyway - if not. Sorry for stealing some of your time :))

 

Duration has no impact on Iron Skin.  Power Strength affects the amount of damage Iron Skin can soak.  And I really dislike Rhino Charge, I find zorencoptering to be much more useful without wasting a mod slot or energy to use it.

[Seox]

If soloing you would undoubtedly want Iron Skin.  I don't intend on soloing anything with this build.  Stomp and Roar allow for great team synergy and that is why I want to use them.  I would still say however that Redirection, Vitality and Iron Skin is a bit of overkill.  If you spec for power strength that should greatly improve Iron Skin and allow for another mod to take the spot of Redirection or Vitality (or both, maybe).

 

 

Gotcha; I appreciate the input :]

 

With respect to your build, you seem to be quite informed and your setup seems to be well thought-out. I'd like to suggest something for improvement, but nothing is immediately apparent if you feel you're not losing out on anything with iron skin/rhino charge, and the bonus stats you've got seem quite balanced.

[zat-bust]

this is my rhino prime build, 

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Rhino_prime/t_30_14001143012_1-1-10-2-6-10-5-2-4-6-8-5-7-9-3-16-3-5-21-10-5-55-7-5-105-0-3-106-4-3-107-5-3_105-4-1-7-5-8-16-11-106-5-107-7-2-6-55-6-6-11-7-9-21-14_66/en/1-0-23

 

I haven't formaed it yet, and it can already hold its own. It fitted both max redirection, max vitality and iron skin in. Then with fleeting and streamline, I just spam rhino stomp. 

[Squiintts]

this is my rhino prime build, 

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Rhino_prime/t_30_14001143012_1-1-10-2-6-10-5-2-4-6-8-5-7-9-3-16-3-5-21-10-5-55-7-5-105-0-3-106-4-3-107-5-3_105-4-1-7-5-8-16-11-106-5-107-7-2-6-55-6-6-11-7-9-21-14_66/en/1-0-23

 

I haven't formaed it yet, and it can already hold its own. It fitted both max redirection, max vitality and iron skin in. Then with fleeting and streamline, I just spam rhino stomp. 

 

Thanks for the input.  I really like using rush on my rhino as well, i feel it's a bit under appreciated.  Your build makes better use of efficiency then mine which is why you CAN spam rhino stomp.  However, your rhino stomp has less then half the range of mine, which is why you HAVE to spam rhino stomp.  I prefer a well placed rhino stomp that stops the whole room for 8 seconds, giving me time to activate life support, revive an ally or gtfo out of there.

 

I guess what I'm really looking for is someone who uses a heavy "Roar" based Rhino build.  I would like to know if the slight reduction to duration or less then maxed Power Strength is any cause-for-concern when using Roar.

 

Thanks.

[Darzk]

+1 to ditch Overextended for Iron Skin.

 

The range on Stomp with just Stretch is enough for most situations, and IS is a huge increase to survivability.

 

Plus losing OE will increase Stomp damage, Roar's buff, and IS's damage absorbtion.

 

I would also use Constitution instead of continuity, just bc 40% knockdown recovery is a little better than 2% duration, imo.

 

For a full utility build use both +duration mods and ditch Redirection. IS spam should be able to keep you alive into higher content, when you want to go Rage/Vital/Rejuvination.

 

Edit: This is the build I use for Roar spam in organized defenses: http://goo.gl/W6c7VN (Keeps roar under 50 energy, ~= 2 orbs, but only lasts 16 seconds so used when needed, not constant upkeep. For constant upkeep you have to ditch FE, which means ditching Blind Rage to keep costs down, which means Roar only increases by 65% instead of over +100%, and then IS isnt as strong or efficient so gotta slot some shield/hp mods)

 

This is my constant upkeep setup: http://goo.gl/i32vTx, but it decreases the damage increase of Roar, decreases the range on it so gotta be closer to teammates, and Stomp is not nearly as effective. Also Carrier will force you to waste nearby energy orbs by picking up a third orb after a Roar thats only worth 10% of its potential value :(

 

Although I tend towards stomp spam instead, which is a completely different setup. 

Edited March 10, 2014 by Darzk

[Squiintts]

+1 to ditch Overextended for Iron Skin.

 

The range on Stomp with just Stretch is enough for most situations, and IS is a huge increase to survivability.

 

Plus losing OE will increase Stomp damage, Roar's buff, and IS's damage absorbtion.

 

I would also use Constitution instead of continuity, just bc 40% knockdown recovery is a little better than 2% duration, imo.

 

For a full utility build use both +duration mods and ditch Redirection. IS spam should be able to keep you alive into higher content, when you want to go Rage/Vital/Rejuvination.

 

Edit: This is the build I use for Roar spam in organized defenses: http://goo.gl/GaZqgv

Although I tend towards stomp spam instead, which is a completely different setup. 

 

 

This is pretty much exactly what i was looking for.  Thank you very much.  Using Constitution instead of Continuity is great advice, wish I would have thought of that earlier.  Couple questions though:

 

You mention building for higher-end content using health based mods in conjunction with Iron Skin.  I assume this is due to the bleed proc.  Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't using Iron Skin negate the effects of a Bleed Proc?  So wouldn't Rage/Vitality/Rejuvination be kind of overkill?

 

I am going to test in game (because I am unsure right now) but if you are correct about me going overboard with my range, then the build you posted would be much more ideal.

 

The hardest pill for me to swallow is what I did to my aura slot.  You forma'd for energy siphon.  I had planned on doing that for quite some time, until I thought forma'ing out any polarity in the aura slot would allow for greater versatility when choosing an Aura.  Am I wrong here?  (I kind of feel wrong.)

 

Would you mind posting the "stomp spam" build you mentioned?  Would love to see it.

 

Thanks so much for the help.

[Darzk]

You mention building for higher-end content using health based mods in conjunction with Iron Skin.  I assume this is due to the bleed proc.  Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't using Iron Skin negate the effects of a Bleed Proc?  So wouldn't Rage/Vitality/Rejuvination be kind of overkill?

 

Actually, its more about how IS breaks incredibly frequently at higher levels. At ~35+ mins into a T3 Survival, for example, a Corrupted Gunner can break IS in about 3 seconds of continuous fire. Say you're out of energy, the vital/rage combo lets you regen and recast IS, and probably even get enough returned to Stomp-CC the gunner for easy headshots.

 

I actually had an amusing situation show up in a T3 surv the other day. Had a teammate down in a room full of enemies, another teammate trying to revive him, no energy at all to stomp-cc the room. So I had IS active, stood a couple of meters from the reviving teammate, and let the whole room shoot at me, repopping IS as soon as I had enough energy. Remember that IS gives you increased threat, so enemies will ignore nearby teammates to shoot at you.

 

IS broke around 20ish times and I just repopped it. Lost maybe 300 health. Probably took ~30k damage, but barely felt scratched.

 

 

 

Stomp Spam: http://goo.gl/4oDbRb

Just run around casting stomp every 8 seconds to keep the majority of the room CCd. 25 energy stomps, with +135% range. IS is really weak tho and you arent nearly as tanky as a no-OE, Rage+Vital build.

[Seox]

IS broke around 20ish times and I just repopped it. Lost maybe 300 health. Probably took ~30k damage, but barely felt scratched.

 

 

I'm assuming your IS build is max efficiency? If you're running rejuv, how did you get enough health between iron skins to keep from being killed but still get the energy you needed to recast?

 

Do you have an example of that build? It'd mean a lot :]

Edited March 10, 2014 by Seox

[Darzk]

I'm assuming your IS build is max efficiency? If you're running rejuv, how did you get enough health between iron skins to keep from being killed but still get the energy you needed to recast?

 

Do you have an example of that build? It'd mean a lot :]

 

Rage. Returns energy when you take health damage. Taking ~16 hp damage would let me recast IS instantly. Sometimes I can even get enough energy between guardian procs to recast O.o

 

Build was http://goo.gl/3hWIf0, iirc.

[Squiintts]

 Remember that IS gives you increased threat, so enemies will ignore nearby teammates to shoot at you.

 

This is part of why I don't find Iron Skin as useful as others seem to.  The increase in threat level means increased damage and I feel like once the enemies begin doing a great deal of damage, you probably wouldn't want that increase to your threat level.

 

You mention how strong the mobs get once you get over 35 minutes in a T3 survival.  Now this is all hypothetical because I've never taken a Rhino that far into a T3S (or any T3S for that matter) but:  I farmed for what seemed like an eternity for the Rhino Prime Chassis in T3S.  I used my Nova in almost every run, nearly all of which we went 30-45 minutes.  I'm not going to say I never went down, because I did, but only a few times out of several dozen runs seems pretty good to me.  My Nova was only running a 8/10 Redirection for survivability which gave me less then 500 shields and I wouldn't say I had a problem.  So here's the question:  

 

Does the difference in dexterity/mobility between Nova and Rhino actually cause Rhino to take THAT much more damage?  (Without the increased threat level from Iron Skin)

 

 

Edit: This is the build I use for Roar spam in organized defenses: http://goo.gl/W6c7VN (Keeps roar under 50 energy, ~= 2 orbs, but only lasts 16 seconds so used when needed, not constant upkeep. For constant upkeep you have to ditch FE, which means ditching Blind Rage to keep costs down, which means Roar only increases by 65% instead of over +100%, and then IS isnt as strong or efficient so gotta slot some shield/hp mods)

 

I've been toying around with this build you posted.  I must say I really like it, it still offers a great deal of versatility with a great bump to Power Strength.  The only hurdle for me is the reduction to range.  I will have to test in game to see how much of a difference it makes.  I did forma out the Iron Skin polarity slot because it gains you less then any other mod in there.  Anyway I made it look like this:

 

http://goo.gl/Sa71Ze

 

I know 5 forma's is a bit much, but I like the flexibility.  And if I decide I need a Rage focused build, I could do this without needing to change anything:

 

http://goo.gl/f5UMTE

 

This is pretty cookie-cutter from what you posted, so I really have to thank you.  This is what I think I'm going to go with, and I'll forma my Aura slot for Energy Siphon.

[Darzk]

This is part of why I don't find Iron Skin as useful as others seem to.  The increase in threat level means increased damage and I feel like once the enemies begin doing a great deal of damage, you probably wouldn't want that increase to your threat level.

 

You mention how strong the mobs get once you get over 35 minutes in a T3 survival.  Now this is all hypothetical because I've never taken a Rhino that far into a T3S (or any T3S for that matter) but:  I farmed for what seemed like an eternity for the Rhino Prime Chassis in T3S.  I used my Nova in almost every run, nearly all of which we went 30-45 minutes.  I'm not going to say I never went down, because I did, but only a few times out of several dozen runs seems pretty good to me.  My Nova was only running a 8/10 Redirection for survivability which gave me less then 500 shields and I wouldn't say I had a problem.  So here's the question:  

 

Does the difference in dexterity/mobility between Nova and Rhino actually cause Rhino to take THAT much more damage?  (Without the increased threat level from Iron Skin)

 

Well yeah, enemies shoot at you more often, but that also means they're not shooting at the Nova behind you. So you take more damage, but you can easily afford to take more damage. Be a team player!

 

I generally use the Vanguard helm for survivals because there's a lot of moving around, so you're not really any slower than a Nova without sprint mods. The strength reduction sucks but I hate falling behind - it means enemies are shooting at that Nova instead of me :S. For Defenses, when I use Thrak, I find I do take more damage, but a lot of it is delibrate, as I'm drawing off of the pod.

 

 

 

With Narrow Minded, the range reduction to Stomp sucks, but isn't as bad for Roar as you can make sure you're beside teammate(s) before casting it. I had a hilarious T3 def where I used full BR and +duration, and buffed a Saryn, and a friendly Nova primed the room. Then the Saryn ran around nuking with Miasma, a single tick was taking out lvl 50 gunners >.> But I had to literally be right next to the Saryn to make sure the buff reached her, and Stomp was basically single target CC :S

[(PSN)JuanitoRainman]

I don't understand the need of several formas, in my humble opinion that's pointless, considering you don't earn extra mastery xp after you place formas and playing with the same frame over and over again is just boring. I have to accept i had to use 2 formas in my current build because of the unnecessary defensive polarities and one of the abilities is just useless. I can easily achieve 60 minutes t3 survival (i don't try more because i get bored) with this build using my penta or boltor prime, i only use roar to summon stomp and also focus on iron skin strength. Hope it helps!

 

PS: vigor and quick thinking can be easily replaceable to do other kind of missions, place stamina and/or rush max in order to do capture, rescue or spy missions

 

Cheers!

 

http://goo.gl/P9TRXu

 

 

[Squiintts]

I don't understand the need of several formas, in my humble opinion that's pointless, considering you don't earn extra mastery xp after you place formas and playing with the same frame over and over again is just boring. I have to accept i had to use 2 formas in my current build because of the unnecessary defensive polarities and one of the abilities is just useless. I can easily achieve 60 minutes t3 survival (i don't try more because i get bored) with this build using my penta or boltor prime, i only use roar to summon stomp and also focus on iron skin strength. Hope it helps!

 

PS: vigor and quick thinking can be easily replaceable to do other kind of missions, place stamina and/or rush max in order to do capture, rescue or spy missions

 

Cheers!

 

http://goo.gl/P9TRXu

 

Well, since you necro'd a dead thread . . . .

 

First off, if you don't enjoy forma'ing warframes and trying to find out the best build for yourself I fear that you are not long for the warframe world.  After you reach Mastery Rank 8, there is really no advantage to going any higher other then trades per day.  And if you get bored with frames that easily you will inevitably run out of content very quickly.  DE isn't exactly churning out a new warframe every week, nor should they have to.

 

Second, if you took some time to really look at your build you would see that you could have done the EXACT same thing without using a single forma.

 

See Here:  http://goo.gl/giybuu

 

Beyond that, I must say that I don't really see the logic behind flow, quick thinking and a maxed blind rage (personal preference, i suppose).  But since you posted your build I'll let you know how I, personally, would try to improve upon it.

 

http://goo.gl/QUKA5r

 

I reduced Blind Rage from 10/10 to 7/10.  What this did was reduce your iron skin from 2748 to 2424 which is a difference of only 324 (negligible in my opinion); Reduced Charge Damage by 175.5 (Doing over 1300 damage, this is also negligible); reduced roar by 13.5% (since you're still doing double damage, you would be hard pressed to notice this difference as well).  The advantage to a 7/10 blind rage is efficiency.  With this build you should see the same ability_cost/energy_efficiency ratio.  I removed flow (which doubled your energy) and used a streamline (to get 50% energy efficiency), has nearly the same effect.  The advantages here are many: now it only costs one energy orb to use Iron Skin if your caught without energy, ancient disruptors will no longer be able to rob you of up to 12 energy orbs (Those extra energy orbs you left laying on the ground will come in very handy), Energy Siphon effectiveness is doubled, it is undoubtedly the most commonly used aura so you will play in many groups with people who have it. I also swapped quick thinking for continuity.  I don't understand the need for quick thinking with a high strength iron skin, high shields and high health.  This took your roar time from 6 seconds to 10.5 seconds, making roar much more effective.

 

I think you will find this to be an improvement over your build without any major changes to it (and no forma).  However builds are very personal so you may not agree, just my 2¢.

[Cazzzz]

http://goo.gl/8UiCQG  --- My personal build. I like it for these reasons: As energy efficient as it gets using mods. No need for Forma (Unless you dont want to use a reactor). Sheild hits 1k. For the benefit of efficiency, i only lose 20% duration. Stomp and Charge gain power. *NOTE* Due to the maximized efficiency, the loss in duration is compensated, through the ability to use that ability twice (making it last as long without effieciency) at only HALF the cost of the original price of energy. The multiple use ALSO (for damage abilities) increases the amount of damage done to enemies vs. using the ability only once. Hope you enjoy!

[Cazzzz]

How are you able to stay up reliably without iron skin or vitality?

 

I solo pretty much everything and find it difficult to survive on my frames without Redirection/Vitality, but I keep seeing people using builds that lack one or the other. I'm pretty comfortable with the game, and I expect that it's because others probably run with teams more than I do and take less damage as a result.

 

Appreciate any response! :]

I agree with this when in comes to using Vital, and Redirect (Or substitute Vigor), but i only use them on frames in which dont need a mod slot for something more important. Check my Rhino Prime build, and you can see. To me, the build i follow is one of the best, because i get durability, efficiency, and lots of pain to dish out!  I do run with lots of people, but i still use those mods for the sole purpose of keeping MYSELF alive. (I really could care less if someones down, but i do try for them). Did this make any sense/help you out at all?

[Infernalbird]

Hope its not too late to continue this convo~ 

This is my Build http://goo.gl/ZMEYwo I'd like some input and perhaps constructive feed back. I do VERY well with this build. I use my Phage along with Scindo/Fragor (i'm still working on getting Orthos P) this is my phage Build: http://goo.gl/U5LLuJ i regularly swap shotgun ammo mutation for long haul runs in survival. 

[Agullimux]

Too much text only read op post. Thing is that stomp + roar is bad combo. Each skill need things that other skill don't. 
Either go pure damage buffer or pure cc stomper.

 

10 second buff is not enough you make more damage in that time you need to cast that buff, better just reload weapon instead.

Pure damage buffer is allowed to use stomp for panic button. (revire someone)

Edited August 30, 2014 by Agullimux

[Agullimux]

Hope its not too late to continue this convo~ 

This is my Build http://goo.gl/ZMEYwo I'd like some input and perhaps constructive feed back. I do VERY well with this build. I use my Phage along with Scindo/Fragor (i'm still working on getting Orthos P) this is my phage Build: http://goo.gl/U5LLuJ i regularly swap shotgun ammo mutation for long haul runs in survival. 

Somebody is troll if their max power don't have even power to cast one stomp?

I like this thread maybe i read tomorrow rest.

Also vigor is cancer.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Agullimux

[Darzk]

10 second buff is not enough.

Hell, I regularly use a 6 second Roar. If you time it right and use it before a friendly's nuke (or your own stomp) it can add a lot of damage. I also might pop it when heavies appear, especiially at higher levels.

 

 

Somebody is troll if their max power don't have even power to cast one stomp?

For sure, needs efficiency something terrible. Poster probably doesn't actually have a full BR installed and thus didn't notice that tidbit.

 

Efficiency>PStrength for IS and Stomp. Only for Roar would you want to use a higher level BR - I still would use only a R7 to make 50% efficiency. Too hard to keep active a really expensive Roar.