Friend Can't Play Grineer Tile Sets Any More Due To His Epilepsy.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Go fight Alad V and wait for him to use his terrible excuse of an attack that is his Blinding Beam. Now imagine running down a corridor on Mercury with your Rhino and Iron Skin on, suddenly you are being pounded by that same flash multiple times in a row and end up dead. On the first planet in the game. 

 

That's professional game design right there.

Oh wow hahaha thats really messed up, and i thought the recent hyenas alert disruption spam was annoying enough.

Edited March 12, 2014 by (PS4)DanteVincent

[GSrevolution]

We're taking this topic very seriously and discussing tweaks we can do to help alleviate this issue.

 

Suggestions we've seen so far are:

-Have an option to disable the flash OR a slider to pick the intensity to which you want the flash to be

-Turn down the intensity all together

 

Thanks for bringing it to our attention and sorry for any issues this has caused. 

 

I do hope you consider "removing the lights from the game permanently" an option.

[AntLion]

We're taking this topic very seriously and discussing tweaks we can do to help alleviate this issue.

 

Suggestions we've seen so far are:

-Have an option to disable the flash OR a slider to pick the intensity to which you want the flash to be

-Turn down the intensity all together

 

Thanks for bringing it to our attention and sorry for any issues this has caused. 

Just remove damn lights from the game. Please.

[DiabolusUrsus]

I saw this in the "recent staff replies" on the bus home, and I wanted to make a point of coming back to weigh in.

First off, I have epilepsy. I've had it since I was in the sixth grade. I suffered from quite a few relatively minor seizures - loss of consciousness, complete loss of memory from about a day or so before the episode, twenty-four hour headaches, and an increased but not feverish body temperature. It took me about a year to find a medication that worked. Point being, I speak from experience.

 

Continuing to play video games when you have epilepsy is a choice. I won't argue with an option to disable various in-game effects, but what I'm taking issue with is this couple of sentences: The new lights should be looked at ASAP to avoid possible seizures from him and other people afflicted with epilepsy. The last thing we need is someone dropping dead trying to farm for detron.

 

No. When you have a medical condition, it is your responsibility to understand that condition, and make decisions that are prudent when taking your condition into consideration. Exposure to video games is strongly correlated with suffering epileptic seizures. That's a well established fact. If I weren't on prescription medication, I wouldn't be able to play most of the games I do. It's my responsibility to prevent my seizures, not the developers of the games I play. That's like telling a distillery that they should adjust their drinks to prevent people from getting drunk. If someone drops dead farming for a Detron, that's on them. If you have seizures powerful enough to potentially kill you, you shouldn't be touching video games with a thirty-foot pole. It's this same sort of inability to take basic responsibility for your choices that allows the whole "violent video games make people violent" farce to continue.

 

To make things clear, kudos to DE for being accommodating, and I am not in disagreement regarding changing the lights. Their irritating nature and detraction from gameplay without any significant contributions is reason enough. However, I am in strong disagreement with the idea that if someone drops dead from epilepsy while playing a video game, the game is at fault. By all means, make changes that benefit Warframe's gameplay experience. Just please, please, please stop implying that the game is responsible for any sort of personal injury or other malady players suffer while playing it. It's not as though any of the risks associated with playing games are breaking news. This is all old-hat.

Edited March 12, 2014 by DiabolusUrsus

[Archistopheles]

Just please, please, please stop implying that the game is responsible for any sort of personal injury or other malady players suffer while playing it. It's not as though any of the risks associated with playing games are breaking news. This is all old-hat.

 

Thank you for your input, DiablousUrsus.

[Khunvyel]

I am apologizing if this point has been brought up before, because I got uninterested in the topic as people jumped on ego trips and personal assaults. But there is one thing that doesn't sit well with me;

 

This is serious business. Health always needs to be an issue. People saying that "you have epilepsy, you should not do this n that" is crap. However;

 

Alad V's blinding attack is still in the game, unchanged.

 

When the bossfight came out, how was the reception for this? how many people have brought up the point of possible epilepsy attacks? Or was this issue drowned out because people just mow Alad V and Zanuka down so fast that this is considered "not a problem"?

 

If the blinding flash would not be fully opaque but a 70% transparency white overlay at max, it would not only serve it's purpose of blinding, but would also cause a lot less troubles with everyone's eyes and brains. Epilepsy or no-epilepsy affected people both.

 

But again, why do we still have the blinding attack after months of Alad V ?

[Riasiru]

Want a good argument to fix the flash? I'll give you a good argument.

 

Epileptic children die from playing Warframe after massive seizure. Collective parents file lawsuit. DE goes bankrupt. Warframe is shut down before it gets out of Beta.

 

That a good enough argument for you? As for Alad V... I still hate him and his attack. You want to stimulate blindness? Make a small lens flare style 'glow' that transitions in intensity over a second before vanishing abruptly. While this light is 'warming up', make the rest of the screen grow darker until it's solid black. When the glow vanishes, allow the screen filter to slowly fade away as sight returns to the player. 

 

Does that sound like a decent fix for Alad V?... As for the lights... They just need to be removed. Nothing about instant death + blind corners seems like a good idea. At any rate, if you must keep the flashes, then make it so that the flash is much weaker. Only make the screen a little brighter than normal before making it REALLY DARK. That's how eyes work. The pupils contract when you flash a light on them and that causes the world to appear darker afterwards. It would also mean that you wouldn't need as bright of a flash to achieve a similar effect because the darkness contrasts so well.

 

Would anyone with epilepsy have a problem with those suggestions? 

 

PS, Put a seizure warning somewhere on the game's title screen ASAP. Every minute that goes by without it is another minute you are liable if one happens. This is not how you fix this problem, DE. This is how you buy time while you patch the problem away. 

Edited March 13, 2014 by Riasiru

[DiabolusUrsus]

Want a good argument to fix the flash? I'll give you a good argument.

 

Epileptic children die from playing Warframe after massive seizure. Collective parents file lawsuit. DE goes bankrupt. Warframe is shut down before it gets out of Beta.

 

That a good enough argument for you? As for Alad V... I still hate him and his attack. You want to stimulate blindness? Make a small lens flare style 'glow' that transitions in intensity over a second before vanishing abruptly. While this light is 'warming up', make the rest of the screen grow darker until it's solid black. When the glow vanishes, allow the screen filter to slowly fade away as sight returns to the player. 

 

Does that sound like a decent fix for Alad V?... As for the lights... They just need to be removed. Nothing about instant death + blind corners seems like a good idea. At any rate, if you must keep the flashes, then make it so that the flash is much weaker. Only make the screen a little brighter than normal before making it REALLY DARK. That's how eyes work. The pupils contract when you flash a light on them and that causes the world to appear darker afterwards. It would also mean that you wouldn't need as bright of a flash to achieve a similar effect because the darkness contrasts so well.

 

Would anyone with epilepsy have a problem with those suggestions? 

 

Yes, I have a problem with those suggestions.

First, a massive lawsuit developing over children dying of epileptic seizures is highly unlikely. If anything, the parents could be held liable for negligence provided that the children's epileptic conditions were preexisting. If the fatal seizure was the child's first symptoms of epilepsy, there's no way to prove that it was because of Warframe. If they've got seizures that bad, any sort of strobe light, horror movie, or other miscellaneous lighting might just as easily provoke that sort of seizure. Flickering lights aren't even necessarily the triggers for all epileptic seizures! Alcohol use. Drug use. Lack of sleep.

 

It's well known that video games can cause seizures. Fatal epileptic seizures are also extremely rare. 2% or less of people who have epilepsy rare. I don't usually get this emphatic about stuff like this, but stop @(*()$ blowing this out of proportion. If your epilepsy is bad enough that you're still getting symptoms while on medication for it, you should not be playing video games. Period. That would be like diabetics eating a pack of processed supermarket cookies. This is not a matter of discrimination, nor is it a matter of accommodating disability. If your health is at serious risk playing video games, DON'T PLAY VIDEO GAMES.

Why should Alad V have a flash blind at all? Why not a static noise blind? Myopic blind? There are all sorts of methods for simulating combat blindness without resorting to flashes of light.

Want a good argument to fix the flash? It's irritating, and does nothing to contribute to gameplay or immersion. It's roughly executed, and not atmospheric at all. THAT'S ALL THE REASON YOU NEED.

DE is NOT responsible for people who have epileptic seizures while playing their games. Nor are they responsible for people who stay up all night playing their games. Or people who skip meals playing their games. Or people who spend too much money on their games. Or even people who flunk out of classes because they spend too much time playing their games rather than studying. Those people are responsible for their own inability to make rational decisions or exercise a degree of common sense.

I'm still trying to find the right words for expressing why I find this whole issue so offensive, but I really do. It reminds me of people I know who tell me that "it's okay if [they] get hit by a car, because it'll be the [driver's] fault." It doesn't really matter whose fault it is if you end up dead, so take the time and effort to take the necessary precautions against ending up dead. Not everything is outside of your control.

[Khunvyel]

Sir, you've just finished what I was writing in this topic as I clicked preview, I saw a new message and read it.
I promptly closed the reply tab. Your answer is a lot better, shorter and has more substance. I couldn't have possibly written it better. And I just tried, and failed.

[Riasiru]

Yes, I have a problem with those suggestions.

First, a massive lawsuit developing over children dying of epileptic seizures is highly unlikely. If anything, the parents could be held liable for negligence provided that the children's epileptic conditions were preexisting. If the fatal seizure was the child's first symptoms of epilepsy, there's no way to prove that it was because of Warframe. If they've got seizures that bad, any sort of strobe light, horror movie, or other miscellaneous lighting might just as easily provoke that sort of seizure. Flickering lights aren't even necessarily the triggers for all epileptic seizures! Alcohol use. Drug use. Lack of sleep.

 

It's well known that video games can cause seizures. Fatal epileptic seizures are also extremely rare. 2% or less of people who have epilepsy rare. I don't usually get this emphatic about stuff like this, but stop @(*()$ blowing this out of proportion. If your epilepsy is bad enough that you're still getting symptoms while on medication for it, you should not be playing video games. Period. That would be like diabetics eating a pack of processed supermarket cookies. This is not a matter of discrimination, nor is it a matter of accommodating disability. If your health is at serious risk playing video games, DON'T PLAY VIDEO GAMES.

Why should Alad V have a flash blind at all? Why not a static noise blind? Myopic blind? There are all sorts of methods for simulating combat blindness without resorting to flashes of light.

Want a good argument to fix the flash? It's irritating, and does nothing to contribute to gameplay or immersion. It's roughly executed, and not atmospheric at all. THAT'S ALL THE REASON YOU NEED.

DE is NOT responsible for people who have epileptic seizures while playing their games. Nor are they responsible for people who stay up all night playing their games. Or people who skip meals playing their games. Or people who spend too much money on their games. Or even people who flunk out of classes because they spend too much time playing their games rather than studying. Those people are responsible for their own inability to make rational decisions or exercise a degree of common sense.

 

I agree with you, that's the funny thing. It's a lot like spilling hot coffee on your lap and then suing Mc Donald's because you got burnt. And really, when has that ever happened...

 

Oh, wait...

 

My point is, people are stupid and will blame video games before parents. It's the reason I think a lot of things are so screwed up right now and ultimately that is my biggest concern.

 

As for the issue of rarity. What you are saying is that out of 100 epiletic people, 2 might have a seizure severe enough to die... Well, I've certainly seen a lot of people on the board lately admit that they are epileptic and I'm going to assume that they're the very vocal minority of the epileptic whole. We can probably safely say that there are a hundred people who are epileptic and playing this game. We can also assume a bunch of them are probably kids.

 

So yeah... 

 

1. Stacked Odds

2. Stupid Parents

3. Video Games getting the bad end of the stick on this stuff.

4. Lawsuits.

 

Is it worth the risk? DE should probably do something because, really, do you expect parents to? I sure don't.

 

DE is NOT responsible for people who have epileptic seizures while playing their games. Nor are they responsible for people who stay up all night playing their games. Or people who skip meals playing their games. Or people who spend too much money on their games. Or even people who flunk out of classes because they spend too much time playing their games rather than studying. Those people are responsible for their own inability to make rational decisions or exercise a degree of common sense.

 

You'll notice I went back and added a small PS to my initial post before you had time to reply where I stated, "This is not how you fix the problem, DE, this is how you buy time to patch the problem away." At the end of the day I don't want to see the issue swept under the rug but addressed as a whole.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Riasiru

[Khunvyel]

Without tackling the previous posting of Riasiru (no offense, it just would be way too straining for me to start explaining again), the news are good:

 

I just ran a Grineer mission right after the hotfix deployed, and can tell you the "flash" when you get blinded is nowhere near intimidating right now. it is a lot faster and only illuminating the screen a little, not white-screen glaring.

 

Good thing they reacted fast.

[Polarthief]

As with all "My friend" stories, they should be the one contacting mods/support/the forums.

 

Assuming you're serious, of course.

 

If you play this game at end-game, almost anything is enough to set off some sort of mental problem, myself included and I have no pre-occurring problems with seizures/related.

 

"His Friend" is most definitely serious.

[Archistopheles]

If you play this game at end-game, almost anything is enough to set off some sort of mental problem, myself included and I have no pre-occurring problems with seizures/related.

 

"His Friend" is most definitely serious.

 

We're way past that point of the discussion.