Procs Should Match Your First Mod Slot [Img]

[Tsukinoki]

@Killerdude8

I made a pure corrosive Tysis with 100% status.

Every single shot I was making procced on enemies, and I tested this on both normal mobs and bosses.

Out of 210 shots 210 procced.

Now, I will admit that I was the host when I tested this so that may be affecting it, but 100% status does actually gaurentee a proc.

[notionphil]

They first need to Fix the Status Proc itself.

 

As it is, A pure Corrosive Tysis with 100% Status, does NOT proc corrosive(or anything for that matter) every shot, As it SHOULD be doing.

 

yes please.

[Killerdude8]

@Killerdude8

I made a pure corrosive Tysis with 100% status.

Every single shot I was making procced on enemies, and I tested this on both normal mobs and bosses.

Out of 210 shots 210 procced.

Now, I will admit that I was the host when I tested this so that may be affecting it, but 100% status does actually gaurentee a proc.

Lucky you, my 100% status Tysis rarely Procced at all, if Ever.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Killerdude8

[Tsukinoki]

@Killerdude8

Every enemy that survived the shot got a corrosive proc on it.

I've even gotten it up to 150% multishot and tested that as well and was seeing that any damage number that popped up had the corrosive symbol next to it, meaning that every single shot from multishot was also proccing corrosive.

Test it in single player and against enemies that will survive multiple shots (Jackal works great for this as you can still proc corrosive or anything by just hammering his shields without ever killing him) and you'll see that the green corrosive effect on him is applied first shot and keeps stacking until you switch to another weapon.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[notionphil]

I'd give the player the choice of which proc the player wants. Choices = fun :D

 

What do you mean by this? Like any proc at all, regardless of which mods they have equipped?

[halofury36]

...

 

I propose that only the first damage slot in each build should proc. (or first 2, if they combine to make a dual element).

 

...

 

This is a simple way to give players more meaningful build choice and diversity, with little overhead. Thoughts?

Just a thought, but wouldn't it be easier to add a drop-down to the arsenal screen? Just pick from available procs for a weapon, or set to random? I understand wanting to give more flexibility and focus, but positioning mods can get very complicated.

 

I do understand your suggestion and like it, but maybe there is a better way?

[notionphil]

Just a thought, but wouldn't it be easier to add a drop-down to the arsenal screen? Just pick from available procs for a weapon, or set to random? I understand wanting to give more flexibility and focus, but positioning mods can get very complicated.

 

I do understand your suggestion and like it, but maybe there is a better way?

 

My solution is simply the most stripped-down form of the idea, so that we can get a conversation going. As a parsimonious AKA lazy software developer, I like to work with elements I already have.

 

A UI element would of course be preferable.

[Liminal]

What do you mean by this? Like any proc at all, regardless of which mods they have equipped?

No, no. You have Corrosive and Fire in your gun that deals Slashing and Impact damage and you get a choice between those 4 possible procs.

 

Call it "Special Trigger" or something that sounds like it came out of a JRPG and let players choose between "Lacerate", "Stagger", "Incinerate" or "Dissolve".

[notionphil]

No, no. You have Corrosive and Fire in your gun that deals Slashing and Impact damage and you get a choice between those 4 possible procs.

 

Call it "Special Trigger" or something that sounds like it came out of a JRPG and let players choose between "Lacerate", "Stagger", "Incinerate" or "Dissolve".

 

Ahh ok, understood. Yes, that would work well with a UI element as Luke and Halo have suggested.

[Paradoxbomb]

So, because I was a tiny bit lost after the first five times reading this, I doodled up a small diagram which is hopefully representative of what you're proposing:

 

 

Case A: Electricity is the only element and therefore procs since it is placed in slot 1

 

Case B: Because slot 2 is left empty (or filled with a non-elemental mod) electricity does not combine with Fire or Cold and still procs. Fire and Cold become Blast damage but do not proc

 

Case C: Electricity and Fire form radiation and proc. Cold remains on it's own and does not proc.

 

Case D: Puncture damage procs, and electricity does not proc.

 

Hopefully that's correct, though that raises the question of what happens when you have no Physical/Elemental damage mods? Will your weapon simply proc randomly, or will it only proc based on your weapon's highest status effect? (personally I'd prefer the latter since it would add some reliability to that status effect and would also solve the issue of every enemy being able to bleed us out despite using impact/puncture weaponry).

 

 

EDIT: Also, what would happen if you had one (or more) elements equipped but didn't have any of them in the first slot? Would they proc randomly as usual or not at all?

Edited March 14, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[notionphil]

So, because I was a tiny bit lost after the first five times reading this, I doodled up a small diagram which is hopefully representative of what you're proposing:

 

 

Case A: Electricity is the only element and therefore procs since it is placed in slot 1

 

Case B: Because slot 2 is left empty (or filled with a non-elemental mod) electricity does not combine with Fire or Cold and still procs. Fire and Cold become Blast damage but do not proc

 

Case C: Electricity and Fire form radiation and proc. Cold remains on it's own and does not proc.

 

Case D: Puncture damage procs, and electricity does not proc.

 

Hopefully that's correct, though that raises the question of what happens when you have no Physical/Elemental damage mods? Will your weapon simply proc randomly, or will it only proc based on your weapon's highest status effect? (personally I'd prefer the latter since it would add some reliability to that status effect and would also solve the issue of every enemy being able to bleed us out despite using impact/puncture weaponry).

 

 

EDIT: Also, what would happen if you had one (or more) elements equipped but didn't have any of them in the first slot? Would they proc randomly as usual or not at all?

 

Sir, your doodle is mostly correct, and will be added to the OP (within the hour) along with a big fat royalty check full of +1s.

 

Case B: Elec and Fire will still combine to create radiation, but only Elec will proc.

 

Some may ask:

 

"But Notionphil! Why should a weapon be able to proc elec if it's not even dealing elec damage, and is instead dealing radiation (elec+fire) damage?"

 

And I'd say: Because specific elemental damage types are essentially REQUIRED versus specific factions. We need more flexibility for procs than just 2 per faction, this at least opens us up to 6 choices for a typical 2 dual elemental build.

 

If you have no elem/phys in the first slot, your weapon will Proc just as it does now, randomly between what damage types are dealt. Some people have expressed the desire to have multiple procs in one weapon, and i can see the value in that.

 

I hope that answers your Q and your edit.

Edited March 19, 2014 by notionphil

[PookieNumnums]

your math is off.

 

also, you can create combination dmg types to reduce the rainbow effect.

 

so, -1

[notionphil]

your math is off.

 

also, you can create combination dmg types to reduce the rainbow effect.

 

so, -1

 

math, please explain.

 

If you mean "this will allow us to create up to 6 procs in a typical 2 dual-ele build":

 

Fire

Ice

Tox

Elec

Dual1

Dual2

 

= 6

 

and 'reduce rainbow effect' what?

Edited March 19, 2014 by notionphil

[Varzy]

This is a really solid idea that'd give players a lot more options in playstyles. Sacrificing pure optimal DPS for specific effects and tactics? It reminds me of back before Damage 2.0 when I'd slot Cryo Rounds onto my Boltor to make it easier to lead enemies. Here, I could do Viral or Blast damage and still slow enemies down. I like it.

[Varzy]

math, please explain.

 

If you mean "this will allow us to create up to 6 procs in a typical 2 dual-ele build":

 

Fire

Ice

Tox

Elec

Dual1

Dual2

 

= 6

 

and 'reduce rainbow effect' what?

If we're including the physical procs, the range expands to 9. Though that's probably not what you were referring to.

[Paradoxbomb]

-snip-

 

Glad to hear I was (mostly) correct, and that that image is accurate enough to use in the OP. I'm surprised people are actually a fan of the effects being completely random, but then again it's a matter of personal preference and as long as we get an option to control it or leave it as is I can't complain.

[notionphil]

Glad to hear I was (mostly) correct, and that that image is accurate enough to use in the OP. I'm surprised people are actually a fan of the effects being completely random, but then again it's a matter of personal preference and as long as we get an option to control it or leave it as is I can't complain.

 

Thanks for creating it, +1!

 

I don't think I'd ever leave my effects random, but I see the draw if you have an elemental base dmg weapon and are only doing Corrosive + Blast or something.

[Juvieus_Kaine]

Sir, your doodle is mostly correct, and will be added to the OP (within the hour) along with a big fat royalty check full of +1s.

 

Case B: Elec and Fire will still combine to create radiation, but only Elec will proc.

 

Some may ask:

 

"But Notionphil! Why should a weapon be able to proc elec if it's not even dealing elec damage, and is instead dealing radiation (elec+fire) damage?"

 

And I'd say: Because specific elemental damage types are essentially REQUIRED versus specific factions. We need more flexibility for procs than just 2 per faction, this at least opens us up to 6 choices for a typical 2 dual elemental build.

 

If you have no elem/phys in the first slot, your weapon will Proc just as it does now, randomly between what damage types are dealt. Some people have expressed the desire to have multiple procs in one weapon, and i can see the value in that.

 

I hope that answers your Q and your edit.

 

I actually think this doesn't make a lot of sense since the element is going to combine with the nearest element to create a new one. I can see the logic though of letting it proc even if it's now in a combo, so we get more utility.

 

We could go one step further and say that instead of restricting it to the first polarity slot, you could use a Forma to polarise a slot to take primary proc slot. We'd need a UI tweak so there's an indicator at the top left or something that the mod has Proc Priority. That way you can overstack on one element (say, corrosive) then add a fire mod in and polarise it's slot; this gives you high corrosive and a proc'ing fire. 

[notionphil]

If we're including the physical procs, the range expands to 9. Though that's probably not what you were referring to.

 

When we start using physical mods in a typical dual ele build, sure! But for now, we'd be limited to 6.

 

I'd imagine that will happen once phys mods are fixed!

[notionphil]

I actually think this doesn't make a lot of sense since the element is going to combine with the nearest element to create a new one. I can see the logic though of letting it proc even if it's now in a combo, so we get more utility.

 

We could go one step further and say that instead of restricting it to the first polarity slot, you could use a Forma to polarise a slot to take primary proc slot. We'd need a UI tweak so there's an indicator at the top left or something that the mod has Proc Priority. That way you can overstack on one element (say, corrosive) then add a fire mod in and polarise it's slot; this gives you high corrosive and a proc'ing fire. 

 

Yep exactly, the logic is that we're severely limited in how we can build our weapons, and this gives us additional flexibility thats needed to keep the game fun, and let us feel like we have some control over what we're bringing into battle.

 

I'm not a fan of adding new UI elements unless they add a lot of value and no complexity; I'm not sure what the benefit of being able to switch the slot around would be except in a few cases, which could be handled by Forma.

[Tsukinoki]

The edit with the graphic provided by paradoxbomb makes this idea even better than it was before.

This would finally give us choice and more control over what our guns do. We would be able to build them to be effective against the enemy type that we are fighting while also making it so that we can get the proc we want or will find most useful.

Being able to build a gas weapon for damage but have it proc heat for the panic effect would be a nice thing to pull out against ancients. Or making a corrosion build proc toxin DOT against grinneer instead of reducing armor (which would allow you to deal with Napalms and Bombards a bit easier while having corrosive damage for all of the common mooks).

And it would be a very meaningful choice to make, which is something else that warframe needs.

[notionphil]

The edit with the graphic provided by paradoxbomb makes this idea even better than it was before.

This would finally give us choice and more control 

 

...

And it would be a very meaningful choice to make, which is something else that warframe needs.

 

Yes, his graphic is really helpful.

 

Thanks for your feedback. You nailed the exact intent.

[Varzy]

It occurs to me that the best thing about this suggestion is that modding our weapons becomes a very involved, deliberate action, even more than the current dual element system. Instead of dropping our best mods in, we need to be considerate of Mod placement and shuffle polarities around until everything fits and is optimal. It becomes almost a puzzle mini game, and emulates what it'd actually be like to tweak a tool or weapon's output, you know?

[Volt_Cruelerz]

While I like the idea, I'm not sure if you need to limit it to only the first element to pop out.  I think it could be reasonable to allow it to proc more if you had more elements attached.  I know it's less elegant, but a raw toggle could be useful...

[Sixty5]

Huh, I really do like this idea, I've wanted a way of customising my procs for awhile.

 

+1 op.