Lets Get Rid Of Ironskin

[WrothBog]

rhino is loaded up with so many pro points it's hard to find fault with it.

 

good HP, good shield, good armour, newest version is good speed, and his ability set is some sort of list of perfection

 

he can charge  straight ahead, useful for evasion, frontal damage and a speed boost

he can stomp hard enough to slow time...because physics works that way. the result being a longish duration radial stun or flat out killing everything near him

he can boost damage from all his weapons and the team's if they stick close

and this one bothers me immensely, he can just whack a bunch of additional health on.

 

there is no con points to rhino. even his abilities lack negative aspects. there is no tradeoff.

 

personally i can deal with the first three. you can argue they are mildly situational. charge obviously becomes nothing more than mobility after a certain point. stomp is pure damage early on and pure utility in high content. boosting damage is good for the whole team and scales well.

 

but ironskin serves no point.

 

it's most effective at low levels. but rhino already has good shields, armour and health. he doesn't need more

it's not effective at "beyond max level" content making the skill pointless there too.

 

effectively the only thing ironskin is doing is breeding lazy players. players that focus more on keeping ironskin up and less on just finding cover when their shields drop.

 

so... either drop ironskin and put something else in it's place  OR add a substantial downside to it.

 

iron skin drops speed by a percentage propertional to its power. the more covered in iron you are the slower you move. this makes ironskin into a situational boost in defense not a macro'd key that casts ironskin every 12 seconds in case it ran out.you take a hit on mobility and if the situation doesn't destroy your plates you may need to use charge to keep up with the team until you can take the rest of the hitpoints. a simple change like that forces some intelligent use of a currently over spammed "skill"

 

for the record i also oppose turbulence, snow globe, trinity, invincible hysteria and the other stay alive forever abilities. i do like valkyr and zephyr but you wont see me use hysteria or turbulence.

[MagPrime]

I don-what? No...

 

After playing Rhino for a couple weeks I can say that he really does need his Iron Skin.  

[SpilockT_T]

How about Trin's Link?

[Mesyra]

with out iron skin he really has nothing but a stun ulti. hes stats are almost the same as frost's stats, and further more, he is the "tank" he is supposed to draw fire to himself by shooting everything and being invincible, so kill the tank? good luck.

Edited March 14, 2014 by VYR3

[Tali]

I don-what? No...

 

After playing Rhino for a couple weeks I can say that he really does need his Iron Skin.  

especially against high level heavy gunners and such

[(PSN)Complex_Serenity]

I agree with your view on breeding lazy players.

But, on the other hand, I like my easy mode frame from time to time......maybe lock rhino to a certain mastery rank?

That way players that have played with other frames can enjoy the benefits that rhino brings, without sacrificing their ability to understand how cover and shoot mechanics work.

But, I do agree, new players should not just start out with rhino, as they will be learning nothing about how taking damage works.

[Nemorac]

You're against Turbulence, Hysteria, and Trinity?  So you don't want people able to heal you when near death, people able to rage and bring you back up when you're dying, or anything like that?  If you want to take away Rhino Skin, then we should take away those abilities too, except...wait for it, you'd be killing the things that make those frames what they are!

 

Trinity is the healer, the quintessential support frame.  Her Blessing is the main thing that makes her viable.  Valkyr is a berserker, who should hopefully be getting a buff by way of Melee 2.0 in the fact of making her Hysteria usable as more than just another invincibility deal.

 

Do i think Rhino's in need of some further balancing, despite the fact he's been nerfed and buffed several times already?  Yeah, probably, but there's no need to take away one of the main things that makes him fit the role he's SUPPOSED to and was DEVELOPED to be.

[5stareraser]

The Troll.

[Mickey1779]

Rhino's "trade off" was supposed to be his lower than normal speed which DE messed up big time with Rhino Prime.

 

Rhino Prime+Vanguard Alternate Helmet = Loki's speed

 

No more down side to playing Rhino.

[Anatolius]

Rhino is suppose to be a tank. Thus is the reason reason iron skin exists. He is meant to be the one who goes in first when things get balls to the wall crazy

He is suppose to draw in aggro away from other players.

Iron skin can help in the revival process because you are unlikely to die.

Personally I don't use iron skin/turbulence/ect unless I need to so it can't be said that all rhino users use it. I actually removed it from my load out and got noise for it. Wat? It's kind of players choice to want to just Rambo things. Without rhino skin, rhino doesn't fill the tank portion of his role. He just turns into this pack leader who can beef up the others.

I think the only thing I can possible accept in this post is the speed reduction because Rhino prime/vanguard/rush makes you nearly as fast if not faster than loki.

[Hyunsai]

I like this thread, because so many Rhino players were saying Iron Skin was garbage in higher level so putting it or not made no difference.

 

 

I got the feeling that now, the skill will be magically viable again.

 

 

This will be fun.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Hyunsai

[Ratisfaction]

No...

[LordBeeBrain]

You're all just... Falling right into this one, aren't you?

[Dark5eiD]

zephyr also has high shields and armor. i think they should take away her turbulence  ?? !!

[Anatolius]

I agree with your view on breeding lazy players.

But, on the other hand, I like my easy mode frame from time to time......maybe lock rhino to a certain mastery rank?

That way players that have played with other frames can enjoy the benefits that rhino brings, without sacrificing their ability to understand how cover and shoot mechanics work.

But, I do agree, new players should not just start out with rhino, as they will be learning nothing about how taking damage works.

Isn't rhino master rank locked now... But at rank 2.

Which isn't that far off in this game.

[(PSN)goodvibes9508]

Look dude I don't know how the flying high cloud 9 you are playing Valkyr and zephyr without some of their main skills.

Rhino needs his iron skin

Valkyr needs her hystera

Trinity needs her blessing

Rhino is one of the few frames that can even survive higher levels. His skills work so even if they aren't doing damage they are still useful.

Frankly I am so tired of hearing this argument rhinos iron skin was there from the beginning it's not going away.

Should his iron skin be nerfed? Maybe? Maybe do a similar thing from frosts new snow globe

Should rhinos parts be moved to a higher planet so that new players can become lazy? Prolly?

Should rhino loose one of the few skill that makes him his role? Hell f#%k no

[Pazgabear]

I like this thread, because so many Rhino players were saying Iron Skin was garbage in higher level so putting it or not made no difference.

 

 

I got the feeling that now, the skill will be magically viable again.

 

It IS garbage, but it's still has some use, like avoiding knockdown or taking a bit more pain before crumbling to the ground, the thing is, it's not the pseudo-godmode you can see in lower level missions

 

Deleting or making Iron Skin unusable can be translated as one less frame to revive you when you're down

[LurkenLurker]

It IS garbage, but it's still has some use, like avoiding knockdown or taking a bit more pain before crumbling to the ground, the thing is, it's not the pseudo-godmode you can see in lower level missions

 

Deleting or making Iron Skin unusable can be translated as one less frame to revive you when you're down

This This This people who don't play Rhino don't know how bad Iron skin is in high wave defense and Survival how fast it drops. Or the fact that if a shield lancer or scorpion pulls you to the ground while casting it your pretty much dead when the mobs beat on you iron skill will drop fast so will your shields and health do to heavy units.

[Horyuu]

My suggestion: Change iron skin to instead be a direct shield increase and immunity to most statuses.  Right now it is virtually impossible to gauge when the skill will time out because we have no such "absorb bar".  The skill would work relatively the same, but slightly different.  Because it would now be an increase to shields, which is supposedly what rhino's true tank is anyway, it will be easier to determine if the ability needs refreshed, the ability will last until complete shield depletion, and it will make the player still immune to the knockdowns and energy drains, but not status effects like on fire, or electrocuted.

 

Currently, Ironskin doesn't even play well with other players' abilities, like Trinity's blessing.  But if you were to change it to a direct shield increase, it would recharge and be immune to damage like the rest of the frames.

 

Edited spelling.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Horyuu

[GraalOhOtonami]

Go home, you're drunk.

[Ttariel]

OK ok ok ok 

I know many are angry about the whole Rhino Speed thing, im also not a fan of it.

 

But the Rhino hate is just getting stupid now, how about we buff the other frames to not be bad ?

[AfroGamerNinja]

Replace Rhino with Booben as the frame dropped from Jackal. Case closed

[Hyunsai]

Heeh, even as a Rhino player, I say kill it ! Then all players will see how stupid and $&*&*#(%& some gameplay and design of this game are, and call even more DE for fixing it. But as long as Rhino is the magic answer to everything, nothing will change.

 

Some sacrifice for the greater good.

[AvengerGrim]

My suggestion: Don't change Iron Skin.

 

If i feel like not trying, i take Rhino.

If i feel like like soloing some T2 easy mode, i take Rhino.

Rhino as it is may not have many downsides but does it really need more? Iron Skin take aggro from enemies, it prevent cc on you, help revives teammates without making you an easy target, to me these are all qualities that i like to have in a team, i don't understand that constant need to try to nerf everything in a PVE co-op game...

 

Beside, Rhino is only "OP" in early/mid-game, in end-game however, that's a completely different matter, Iron Skin is no longer "God-mode", Charge is only useful as an evasion skill, but even then... and Stomp lose a lot of its damage dealing aspect and become mostly a form of cc. Add his buff and he's on par with a lot of other Warframes suited for "end-game".

 

Again, what's up with that obsession with nerfing everything in a PVE co-op game? Let's just make all Warframes equally terribles, case solved, right?

[DrPandisimo]

Yeah , at the same time get rid of blessing, link, hysteria, turbulence, radial blind, radial disarm, terrify, hell anything that can be used to take the heat of you, yeah? No, didn't think so.