For [De] Energy Weapons In General

[Natesky9]

As it seems that any thought-out or long-winded post gets immediately shot down and tossed aside, I'll spare your eyes the paragraphs for those with weak corneas:

Energy weapons are fun. Really fun. But at the moment, They're weak. Why are they weak?

Same ammo economy, and less damage than regular weapons.

While both of these don't have to be addressed simultaneously, at least one does.

Ammo mutation is almost a must on energy weapons due to their projectile travel time.

 

Energy weapons don't "feel" special.

They need to have a special, unique mechanic to them. Give lasers a battery. Give plasma weapons a gas cartridge. This won't change their type of ammo, but rather their ammo economy. Because reloading a CO2 cartridge and a 9 volt battery is cheaper than a box of 9mm ammo. (If you want me to explain in detail, tell me in the comments)

 

"Bullet" type weapons have very many much crits and status, while energy weapons have none.
And this is fine. but they should have their own advantage to make up for this. Instead, they almost all have the downside of having projectile travel time (non-hitscan)

 

Laser weapons are nothing more than brightly-colored tape measures. The flux rifle is guilty of this to some degree. The Spectra deserves life without bail. 

 

I'm just going to mention the Prova, and let you guys say why it's bad. I was disappointed when it was worse than a butcher's cleaver.

 

And lastly, besides most energy weapons only having a single elemental, no "physical" damage, non-hitscan, and poor ammo efficiency, most of them are clan-tech, and pale in comparison to other weapons. This means that they're expensive, high-level (with the exception of the Tetra) and are weaker than other guns of their level.

 

I love energy weapons, and I build almost my entire arsenal around them. But at the moment, they're not unique or different than regular weapons. And as an energy weapon lover, I want to see these beauties get the love they deserve!

(If anyone from [DE] reads this, I would love to hear your feedback on my feedback)

I only seem to get opinions from the worst people on the forums, and I want to know that my opinions are being heard

[_Absolom_]

This man...he gets it.

Supra master race.

[Archistopheles]

Based on the thread, I assume you don't count Ignis, Synapse, and Phage as energy weapons?

[Tyranness]

These make sense, though adding more ammo types could clog the ammo drops, I see no problem with them. Considering how lasers work I'd expect some slight ramp up in damage (similar to speeding up the gorgon or supra). However as an Explosives lover I can't really say much. Maybe incrase Prova Status chance so it can shock more consistently.

 

Also Ignis, and synapse are not energy weapons. Synapse only due to technicality of shooting lightning, not a laser. Ignis shoots fire. Phage does shoot lasers but it's a shotgun, and currently the only real destructive laser weapon (and it's not even Corpus!)

Edited March 14, 2014 by TyrantBelial

[MechaTails]

I use Dera, Tetra, Lanka, they're freaking awesome already.

 

Prova is kinda meh, didn't bother with it after a while, but that's what everyone says about the Lecta and I turned it into a super useful weapon.

 

Flux is a freaking laser beam, how is that not unique? rofl You even have to aim it differently than a bullet gun.

 

Adding more ammo types like cartridges or whatever would probably just flood the game with more useless ammo loot.

 

I kinda feel like energy guns should all be hit-scan and bullet guns should require you to lead the target a little.

 

Based on the thread, I assume you don't count Ignis, Synapse, and Phage as energy weapons?

 

Eh, I don't think it's good to generalize what an energy weapon is. Ignis is also an "energy" weapon, it simply shoots fire instead of lasers. We need to look at each weapon individually and see how to make it interesting.

Edited March 14, 2014 by DarkTails

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Another weapon change forum -_-

[CY13ERPUNK]

IMHO all existing 'hitscan' bullet type weapons ingame should be re-worked to have travel time to target [different speeds for different guns and whatnot]

then we could have new mods that increase projectile velocity [now being useful for any build]

and existing combo's like volt's shield would provide a unique benefit

currently atm ingame, hitscan weapons so completely outclass any other comparable weapon type that it's really not funny =/

Edited March 14, 2014 by CY13ERPUNK

[meIody-]

Another weapon change forum -_-

You just called a thread a forum. I just lost faith in humanity, just a bit.

[Natesky9]

I'm glad I remembered this post, as I forgot to follow it after posting.

 

 

These make sense, though adding more ammo types could clog the ammo drops, I see no problem with them. Considering how lasers work I'd expect some slight ramp up in damage (similar to speeding up the gorgon or supra). However as an Explosives lover I can't really say much. Maybe incrase Prova Status chance so it can shock more consistently.

 

Corpus weapons don't have to do lots of damage, but they need to be efficient. And they don't need to add in another ammo type just for energy weapons. But what would be nice is increasing the ammo pickup specifically for these weapons, and possibly changing the max ammo.

 

This is also a small problem with other unique guns, and it could be easily tweaked to work. They raised the Grakata's max ammo (Unfortunately, you still spawn in with 540 though) But you still will be expending more ammo than you pick up unless you slot an ammo mutation. The easiest way to change this is to Change the amount picked up from every ammo drop. You can't possibly fit an entire 20 Ogris rockets in that tiny box. And I'm pretty certain that compressed gas and electricity can go alot farther than a few Penta grenades.

 

 

TL;DR- Energy weapons could use better ammo. Max ammo, ammo pickup. And please, [DE], make the Prova worth while.

Detonite weapons need to be the heavy hitters, but worse on ammo economy.

 

I'm not begging [DE] to change, but I'd like to see some style to be put into their designs. Alot of the time, it's the small things that are looked at the most.

[MixterFox]

I always thought lasers should be radiation and maybe some heat damage. that alone would make them awesome considering that most corpus weapons are designed to fight grineer why not make them use one of their best damage type against them, especially when it makes sense. they would be both usable and different, the damages don't really need to change just make them radiation damage and some of them have some heat thrown into the mix prolly take all of an hour to do.

I'm also not against removing hitscan but that might be a bigger change then this thread aims for.

[_Murphys_Law_]

I always thought lasers should be radiation and maybe some heat damage. that alone would make them awesome considering that most corpus weapons are designed to fight grineer why not make them use one of their best damage type against them, especially when it makes sense. they would be both usable and different, the damages don't really need to change just make them radiation damage and some of them have some heat thrown into the mix prolly take all of an hour to do.

I'm also not against removing hitscan but that might be a bigger change then this thread aims for.

 

most corpus tech features high puncture, the base damage effective vrs. grineer, or electrical (given a poison mod makes it corrosive, or fire equals radiation, both of which gain bonuses vrs. grineer). best way to specialize energy base weapons is allowing them to pack in insane amounts of ammo, higher then the soma (which supports the highest efffin base clip in-game). Or follow in the Dera's path, as firing an energy weapon has no recoil, so they should be accurate to stomp on a dime. theoretically energy weapons fire plasma based projectiles, so travel time is much slower then a bullet,  All i'm saying is if the corpus want to sport energy weapons, why not give em the full package of being energy weapons, efficiency, accuracy, sleek sexy simplicity in construction (which DE has done fabulously, dat lanka) make corpus tech for those who want precision over power. I still use my 5 formaed dera for that very reason, i know where im aiming, that thing is going to hit.

Edited March 16, 2014 by RoyalRuger

[Vaskadar]

Plasma, a gaseous state of matter with a charge, has this tendency to bloom (i.e. dissipate) when exposed to air. What the Corpus supposedly have done is create plasma weaponry that utilize magnetic bubbles as a means of delivery. What the weapons should do is have a small blast radius, greater damage, and arc electricity from the point of impact, perhaps dealing direct damage to health due to their high heat.

They should also deal comparable DPS (to weapons in their tier) to make up for the lack of high critical and status effect chances.

The beam weapons, most specifically the Flux and the Spectra, are rather inconsistent. The Spectra was actually stronger prior to Damage 2.0.

I am assuming the Prova is receiving some loving this coming melee update.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Vaskadar

[_Murphys_Law_]

Plasma, a gaseous state of matter with a charge, has this tendency to bloom (i.e. dissipate) when exposed to air. What the Corpus supposedly have done is create plasma weaponry that utilize magnetic bubbles as a means of delivery. What the weapons should do is have a small blast radius, greater damage, and arc electricity from the point of impact, perhaps dealing direct damage to health due to their high heat.

They should also deal comparable DPS (to weapons in their tier) to make up for the lack of high critical and status effect chances.

The beam weapons, most specifically the Flux and the Spectra, are rather inconsistent. The Spectra was actually stronger prior to Damage 2.0.

I am assuming the Prova is receiving some loving this coming melee update.

sorry didnt read it in full. XD my mistake

Edited March 16, 2014 by RoyalRuger

[MixterFox]

most corpus tech features high puncture, the base damage effective vrs. grineer, or electrical (given a poison mod makes it corrosive, or fire equals radiation, both of which gain bonuses vrs. grineer). best way to specialize energy base weapons is allowing them to pack in insane amounts of ammo, higher then the soma (which supports the highest efffin base clip in-game). Or follow in the Dera's path, as firing an energy weapon has no recoil, so they should be accurate to stomp on a dime. theoretically energy weapons fire plasma based projectiles, so travel time is much slower then a bullet,  All i'm saying is if the corpus want to sport energy weapons, why not give em the full package of being energy weapons, efficiency, accuracy, sleek sexy simplicity in construction (which DE has done fabulously, dat lanka) make corpus tech for those who want precision over power. I still use my 5 formaed dera for that very reason, i know where im aiming, that thing is going to hit.

Puncture damage gets a +50% bonus to ferrite which are mooks and +15% to alloy which are heavies, radiation deals +75% damage to alloy.

I do agree that they shouldn't have recoil but needing higher ammo capacity seems weird to me, I know that by this time someone could have figured out a way to make highly efficient, light weight energy weapons but chemical slug throwers would have been developed for longer. so having smaller faster velocity projectiles seems more reasonable.

[_Murphys_Law_]

Puncture damage gets a +50% bonus to ferrite which are mooks and +15% to alloy which are heavies, radiation deals +75% damage to alloy.

I do agree that they shouldn't have recoil but needing higher ammo capacity seems weird to me, I know that by this time someone could have figured out a way to make highly efficient, light weight energy weapons but chemical slug throwers would have been developed for longer. so having smaller faster velocity projectiles seems more reasonable.

the ammo capacity was in stating that one could in theory run the projectiles off a battery, thus the battery is the mag and we all have seen how much energy a battery can hold, anyone need a duramax?

[Natesky9]

They should also deal comparable DPS (to weapons in their tier) to make up for the lack of high critical and status effect chances.

Read this guy's statement:

best way to specialize energy base weapons is allowing them to pack in insane amounts of ammo, higher then the soma (which supports the highest efffin base clip in-game).  theoretically energy weapons fire plasma based projectiles, so travel time is much slower then a bullet,  All i'm saying is if the corpus want to sport energy weapons, why not give em the full package of being energy weapons, efficiency, accuracy, sleek sexy simplicity in construction ... make corpus tech for those who want precision over power. I still use my 5 formaed dera for that very reason, i know where im aiming, that thing is going to hit.

 This guy gets it. My whole post summed up to a T.

However, the Dera is a bit of an oddball, as it is the only plasma weapon that doesn't have any recoil or spread, but is clearly a plasma weapon.

And I want to take a moment to say that I love the Cestra, but the Dual version is utter rubbish. Worst Akimbo weapon at the moment. This weapon clearly needs some love.

 

And the Tetra, Oh boy, the Tetra. This I think has to be the potentially neatest weapon to come out of [DE]'s Arsenal. However, besides a few nice changes, it operates just like any other rifle, even with the coolest reload animation ever.

It definitely needs to have a small change to it.

As you know, All assault rifles have a max ammo of 540, and usually a clip size of 30-60.

The description for the Tetra specifically says that is has a HUGE, QUAD CHAMBERED CLIP.

However, for machine rifles, this isn't large at all. The MK-1 Braton has 60 rounds. The Boltor has 60 rounds.

Shoot, even the Hind has more magazine size than the Tetra, as a whopping 65 rounds.

 

What the Tetra needs, is a ammo system to make it shine. And this is all they'd have to do:

Each "clip" would have 4 ammo, and each ammo would fire 20 shots. Reloading early would discard any partially used clips, at the expense of having a lightning-fast reload.

[Natesky9]

I think if anything, Energy weapons should either get more ammo from pickups, higher max ammo, or a mod should be made for ammo "recharge"

[Shar487]

Weapons like the Supra are laser rifles based on their in-game descriptions, not plasma projectors. As a result, they should be hit-scan and have zero recoil / muzzle-rise. The Supra should not have any spin-up time since it employs three fixed barrels. Clip sizes and damage numbers can be adjusted to maintain balance, but I'm guessing DE doesn't want to address this unless there is financial incentive behind such changes.

[Natesky9]

Weapons like the Supra are laser rifles based on their in-game descriptions, not plasma projectors projectiles. As a result, they should be hit-scan and have zero recoil / muzzle-rise. 

The diversity of weapons is not the issue.

Also, the Supra IS a plasma weapon, not a laser weapon. No changes need to be made to the Supra, as it is perfectly fine as is. The only issue with Energy weapons in general is the Ammo, and the limitations on them. 

The Flux rifle, one of the only Laser rifles, has a 25-meter range limit. the Spectra, another Laser weapon, only has 15-meter range!

Being lasers, you would assume that these do not have hard range caps, but to cut it off immediately at shotgun range is just silly.

But besides energy weapons being weak at long range (Including the Lanka, which has projectile travel time) they all eat ammo like crazy...

And this specifically goes against the efficiency of Corpus design. Hitscan weapons already have the benefit of having great status and crit chance, not to mention good accuracy alongside immediate damage, Versus projectiles which may not always hit their target.

Simply put, Energy weapons need a slight ammo buff. Just a simple bonus to ammo pickups, or maximum ammo. That's it. Nothing drastic, just a small change to give these weapons fair ground to compete against high-DPS weapons