24 Hour time restriction on Rank up?

[Catknip]

So I got enough XP for rank 2 today and, wouldn't you know it, the game crashes right before I load into the test mission for ranking up. I log back in and find out im back on the 24-hour cooldown. I'm a little fustrated because I didnt even take the test but im back on this ridiculously long cooldown to unlock several powerful weapons.

Is it really neccessary to have a 24 hour timer for ranking up each day?

[Seventhwolf]

The game wants you to be patient and that's what the test is all about. Happened to me too, I had to wait for 24 hours and was pumped to do it. It was totally worth it (even though the mission took only 10 seconds of my time).

[Lumbering_Troll]

I feel that this is hugley pointless. There is no real reason to restrict the player from ranking up if they meet the requirement, in all honesty the test for ranking up is also very pointless. I have 1 minute to kill 10 guys, alright... why bother?

[Molasses]

The game wants you to be patient and that's what the test is all about. Happened to me too, I had to wait for 24 hours and was pumped to do it. It was totally worth it (even though the mission took only 10 seconds of my time).

"its a beta" is never a good excuse, and its not productive to just spout it every time someone makes a complaint.

[Seventhwolf]

I

"its a beta" is never a good excuse, and its not productive to just spout it every time someone makes a complaint.

I didn't even mention that quote:(

[ZephyrFlow]

this was my concern too, imo, the 24hr limit should be at rank 5 or more, since by that time your gears would be high enough to take down a big group, as of now, i still can't rank up thanks to that limit.

[MugenAttack]

its annoying definiately if you fail a test. yeah i suck. they should allow you to take the test however many times you need if you fail that is but make you wait if you rank up after you pass the test the same day. or not wait at all. or atleast reduce the wait time to an hour for fails.

[[DE]Steve]

So I can't use the beta excuse? There are some things in the game that are blatantly placeholder and this is one if them. Sorry, I agree it sucks. Let us finish it up before firing the pointless-lasers at it.

I am an old fashioned gamer who fondly remembers the old days when you felt tension will playing games. I was horrified when I saw my friend quicksave crawling through half life. Horrified.

That is why there is a 24 hour limit on the rank up test. It is supposed to heighten tension because unlike most modem video games, there's just a teeny bit at stake when you try. When the test is interesting and awesome and scary, you may come to accept my reasoning.

Or not.

[Naruchico]

So I can't use the beta excuse? There are some things in the game that are blatantly placeholder and this is one if them. Sorry, I agree it sucks. Let us finish it up before firing the pointless-lasers at it.

I am an old fashioned gamer who fondly remembers the old days when you felt tension will playing games. I was horrified when I saw my friend quicksave crawling through half life. Horrified.

That is why there is a 24 hour limit on the rank up test. It is supposed to heighten tension because unlike most modem video games, there's just a teeny bit at stake when you try. When the test is interesting and awesome and scary, you may come to accept my reasoning.

Or not.

I see your point, but I raise you another.

To raise tension, remove the 24h rank wait, but make it if you fail you must regain the status needed to rank up.

"I am sorry but you have not proven yourself worthy, come back again when we feel you are worthy enough"

it will motivate you not to fail twice, and prove to be a gameplay emphasizer.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Naruchico

[Bang_Doll]

I see your point, but I raise you another.

To raise tension, remove the 24h rank wait, but make it if you fail you must regain the status needed to rank up.

"I am sorry but you have not proven yourself worthy, come back again when we feel you are worthy enough"

it will motivate you not to fail twice, and prove to be a gameplay emphasizer.

That's actually what I thought it would do, originally. But I feel like earning all that experience all over again would probably be crazy sadistic, especially at higher levels.

[Naruchico]

at higher levels more should be expected of you, you are reaching the tanno elite, if you are not proving you have earned the rank, why should you have it? because you are a better grinder, or a skilled warrior?

[[DE]Steve]

Haha well yes, we had that for a while but it seemed too harsh. Might consider scaling that in at higher ranks. I do love loss aversion psychology tho. E.g. Would you play a mission for a potentially huge reward, but with no revive and if you lose, you lose progress (creds or rank)?! Psych stuff I've read is that most are far more willing to gamble in ways that minimize losses. They'd buy a lottery ticket for a dollar loss before they'd put their savings into an entrepreneur with orders of magnitude better chances of returns.

[Bang_Doll]

at higher levels more should be expected of you, you are reaching the tanno elite, if you are not proving you have earned the rank, why should you have it? because you are a better grinder, or a skilled warrior?

But that's kind of what I mean. A better grinder would get more chances at passing the test and therefore be more likely to succeed. At a certain point it comes down to experience. Exposure to a challenge makes it easier to surmount. Reduce the opportunity to take that challenge and the player will be frustrated.

Some of us have full time jobs, and some of us are a little annoyed as it is with free to play games penalizing us nine-to-fivers by basing things we pay for on real time hours (such as BOOSTs), and things we earn in the game on in-game time. Some of us don't have the time we had when we were yoots, so we don't get the same bang for our buck when we pay X amount of dollars for Y amount of hours when we only get a couple of hours in a day to play our favorite game (that's a stretch actually - a couple!? Hah!!) The way it is now, if some of us happen to F*** up the challenge, it's a downer for us, but it's no big deal since we are probably already getting ready to go to bed to get our four hours of shut eye to wake up the next morning and work our S#&$ty jobs to come home and pay for these awesome games we get to play; but if it was based on XP then the equivalent of 24 hours of real time to game time becomes substantially more for some of us who don't have the time to sit at home all day and crap in a bucket and pump code red (prefer blue, myself) mountain dew directly into our vascular system using an IV drip.

... And by "some of us", I meant me goddammit!

This post ended up being a bit more long-winded than I intended. I'm going to go sit down and breathe deeply, now.

[Bonbon127]

Aye having the giant feeling of a do or die situation will mitagate the whole wait 24hr for a new test.

But I gotta say, maybe the beginning part such as Initiate shouldn't require 24 hr per test?

[Naruchico]

But that's kind of what I mean. A better grinder would get more chances at passing the test and therefore be more likely to succeed. At a certain point it comes down to experience. Exposure to a challenge makes it easier to surmount. Reduce the opportunity to take that challenge and the player will be frustrated.

Some of us have full time jobs, and some of us are a little annoyed as it is with free to play games penalizing us nine-to-fivers by basing things we pay for on real time hours (such as BOOSTs), and things we earn in the game on in-game time. Some of us don't have the time we had when we were yoots, so we don't get the same bang for our buck when we pay X amount of dollars for Y amount of hours when we only get a couple of hours in a day to play our favorite game (that's a stretch actually - a couple!? Hah!!) The way it is now, if some of us happen to F*** up the challenge, it's a downer for us, but it's no big deal since we are probably already getting ready to go to bed to get our four hours of shut eye to wake up the next morning and work our S#&$ty jobs to come home and pay for these awesome games we get to play; but if it was based on XP then the equivalent of 24 hours of real time to game time becomes substantially more for some of us who don't have the time to sit at home all day and crap in a bucket and pump code red (prefer blue, myself) mountain dew directly into our vascular system using an IV drip.

... And by "some of us", I meant me goddammit!

This post ended up being a bit more long-winded than I intended. I'm going to go sit down and breathe deeply, now.

I feel your pain, trust me, I have played almost all free to play games, sadly F2P is almost like a job, you either work alot of hours to get more pay(free), or be really good at what you do(pay us cash)

Thats just how 99% of F2P is, your either working 9-5 and paying, or your playing 9-5 and saving.

Its quite literally a calculation on many of these games your time equals X amount of platinum.

for example 20 hours equals 175 platinum or 10 dollars, so you can gather you make 50 cents an hour (hmm minimum wage sounds nice now -_-)

that is the sad truth behind all F2P, and you can literally do the math yourself and find most games pay out at about slave labor costs lol

[[DE]Steve]

Yes. That is why time restriction vs. a setback in advancement is currently in play. The less it feels like a mission and more it feels like a dojo exam, the better.

Your point about the grinder is well made. I will try to be mindful of it in the future.

[taiiat]

I feel that this is hugley pointless. There is no real reason to restrict the player from ranking up if they meet the requirement, in all honesty the test for ranking up is also very pointless. I have 1 minute to kill 10 guys, alright... why bother?

agreed. i don't want the rankup tests to persay be ungodly difficult, but they seem very... insignifigant and pointless.

when i first saw i needed to do some test do rankup, i was surprised, but readied myself for something quite difficult. then found it to be laughable.

[TeamWorkTom]

The issue with having the Rank Up test on a timer is that it can effectivly lock players out of content for 24 hours.

I understand the want to create some sort of emotion out of the rank up test but in the end all it will do is create frustration and people to quit playing because they are locked out of content mutliple days with nothing to do.

The emotion you are talking about from older games was there because it was early in the gaming carrier. You put more emphises on things and events than you do now. You can't enduce an emotion with out the players wanting to feel that emotion them selves. The opposite of what you are trying to get people to feel will be frustration.

This frustration of being locked out of content for multiple days will lead to people quitting really really fast.

Edited January 9, 2013 by TeamWorkTom

[Scypher]

I am up for either , but for the people who are voting for making the test be punishable by losing rank. I give you a question, say that is the way it works and you start your test. Next thing you know the game crashes, or your internet goes out, on and on. Will you really accept the consequences of that, or will you come storming onto the forums demanding your rank back, and if you plan on doing that what is stopping others from claiming that their game crashed and so on.

The timeframe punishment isn't strict enough that warrents a dev/mod/gm to intervene while most people would say that a lost rank is. I understand the whole tension thing, I played UO and EQ which were both very punishing games if you died. Anyway thats my 2 cents on the issue.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Scypher

[MegatechBody]

So I can't use the beta excuse? There are some things in the game that are blatantly placeholder and this is one if them. Sorry, I agree it sucks. Let us finish it up before firing the pointless-lasers at it.

I am an old fashioned gamer who fondly remembers the old days when you felt tension will playing games. I was horrified when I saw my friend quicksave crawling through half life. Horrified.

That is why there is a 24 hour limit on the rank up test. It is supposed to heighten tension because unlike most modem video games, there's just a teeny bit at stake when you try. When the test is interesting and awesome and scary, you may come to accept my reasoning.

Or not.

Alternatively instead of throwing in artificial difficulty you could design interesting and challenging boss fights instead of just giving them lots of shields and health. Just a suggestion =3. Tension can be built from dodging missiles, balls of fire, bombs, giant monsters squishing you, grenades, and OH GOD LASERS EVERYWHERE in the case of a 4 player Corpus defense on Pluto. That said I agree that some artificial difficulty like the limited continues on a mission are a good thing. But I don't remember any old school games that required a 24 hour wait between getting a game over and starting a new game. I think what you're talking about had more to do with getting very far and having to try again which is fine because you could always try again without waiting 24 hours. The only time I usually have to do that in Warframe is when the mission gets bugged. Perhaps making the test hard and long instead of locking them out for 24 hours would be a better idea. But I mean you're the big game developer guy so please tell me how games of yesteryear were better especially like Return to Zork where any number of tiny mistakes made the game uncomplete-able and you weren't told at any time that was the case.

tl;dr: Artificial difficulty doesn't work when your game is buggy and older games did not feature it in the way you are referencing.

Edited January 9, 2013 by MegatechBody

[TeamWorkTom]

Alternatively instead of throwing in artificial difficulty you could design interesting and challenging boss fights instead of just giving them lots of shields and health. Just a suggestion =3. Tension can be built from dodging missiles, balls of fire, bombs, giant monsters squishing you, grenades, and OH GOD LASERS EVERYWHERE in the case of a 4 player Corpus defense on Pluto. That said I agree that some artificial difficulty like the limited continues on a mission are a good thing. But I don't remember any old school games that required a 24 hour wait between getting a game over and starting a new game. I think what you're talking about had more to do with getting very far and having to try again which is fine because you could always try again without waiting 24 hours. The only time I usually have to do that in Warframe is when the mission gets bugged. Perhaps making the test hard and long instead of locking them out for 24 hours would be a better idea. But I mean you're the big game developer guy so please tell me how games of yesteryear were better especially like Return to Zork where any number of tiny mistakes made the game uncomplete-able and you weren't told at any time that was the case.

tl;dr: Artificial difficulty doesn't work when your game is buggy and older games did not feature it in the way you are referencing.

Exactly this. Thank you.

[Scypher]

But I don't remember any old school games that required a 24 hour wait between getting a game over and starting a new game.

Eh, EQ sort of had something like this. The respawn rates for certain mobs you needed for quests could range from days to weeks so.

So you miss a respawn and someone else gets it you have to wait however long the respawn timer is. I mean I still remember one of the guilds that was on EQ. It was so bad the guild leader actually paid his members like a job so he could have them on call day or night.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Scypher

[PomfPomfKimochi]

After level 2, you're not going to be hitting the next rank very quickly (i.e., in 24 hours). I've maxed out all of my Warframes, primaries, and secondaries, and most of my melee weapons, and I'm still a hefty gap away from level 4.

[Ronyn]

Time restriction can be a pain but it works well enough.

Actually taking away my XP and make me grab it again is too harsh.

I like tension in my games to some degree but I have a real life to attend to.

Comming back at my convenience the next day is reasonable.

Putting time into something Ive already done feels too much like an obvious time sink tactic.

Remember folks- time is the real resource of life.

Everything else comes from it.

[Mayowa05]

As an alternative you could put a price tag on the test. So you have to pay lets say 20k to take the test, if you pass you get your cash back, if you fail thats 20k down the drain.