Should I Put Hammer Shot Or Heavy Caliber On My Paris Prime?

[That_Dalek]

Hammer shot would increase my crit multiplier but Heavy caliber would increase my base damage, and reduce accuracy. If it helps, I play around medium range with my PP. So which should I go with?

[(PSN)iHoodStar21]

Both. I use a rank 5 heavy caliber and max hammer shot on my dread.

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

neither, elements+ bane of (enemy) deals better damage and won't mess with your accuracy.

[Deidaku]

Hammershot. Bows rely heavily on accuracy. they're like snipers.

+THey crit a lot. So only hammershot

[-10no-GCoda]

depends on your build, but without any other mods Heavy Caliber will give you ~300 damage and Hammer Shot + Point Strike will add ~160 damage.

this will change if you got maxed serraion...

[Darzk]

HCal only if you play at close range and dont aim for headshots - etc if you use it like a shotgun. In which case you're also an idiot, but thats neither here nor there.

 

Assuming Serration/SC/PS/VS/Speed Trigger, only 3 slots remain. 2 slots are +180% elemental, third slot can be Bane, Hammer Shot, Shred, or a 3rd elemental.

 

Hammer Shot will increase damage by 5.6/4.4 = 27.3%, so Bane is better, unless you care about Proc rate.

Bane will increase damage by 30%, and adding another element will increase by 32% for a 90% element or 21.4% for a +60% element.

Shred will decrease draw time by ~18.8%, thus increasing DPS by about 10-15%

 

I'd say use Shred or Fast Hands at lower levels where you're already one shotting enemies. At higher levels:

 

Use Bane to increase your 180% element, or use another element if a side element has a good multiplier.

 

For example, against Grineer, I'd use Bane to up Rad damage, or +90% Toxin to get a decent bonus against Gunners too.

 

When building for Void, I might use 180% Corrosive 90% cold to help take out shields (although I might choose +60% more Corrosive or HS to help take out Gunners, but less dmg vs other types)

 

For Corpus I'd go with 180% Mag and 90% Toxin. 150% Toxin and Bane is more average DPS, but less evenly distributed between enemy types.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Darzk

[Ragewalker]

What Darzk said.

I use a corrupted build (corrosive and cold). I find the cold damage a better trade than Hammershot (for those pesky shields!).

[xlraistlx]

Even affter reading all the Darzk post and though I can't say the math is wrong, I go with Heavy Caliber, fully ranked.

 

That is: http://goo.gl/xdOQ1Y

 

The arrows will never go out of the "aim-sight" (forgot the actual name, english not my first language) at ~50 meters. And you can oneshot Napalms until level ~32 even without charging the shot.

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

Even affter reading all the Darzk post and though I can't say the math is wrong, I go with Heavy Caliber, fully ranked.

 

That is: http://goo.gl/xdOQ1Y

 

The arrows will never go out of the "aim-sight" (forgot the actual name, english not my first language) at ~50 meters. And you can oneshot Napalms until level ~32 even without charging the shot.

problem there is that after serration, heavy caliber is nowhere near the 2.65x multiplier it only becomes a 1.62x multiplier, by that point there's more damage in other places.

[xlraistlx]

problem there is that after serration, heavy caliber is nowhere near the 2.65x multiplier it only becomes a 1.62x multiplier, by that point there's more damage in other places.

Sorry I just fail to understand, could you (or any other) elaborate?

[(PSN)CrimsonShinku]

Sorry I just fail to understand, could you (or any other) elaborate?

 

let's say 1 base damage.

you add serration, which is +1.65% damage, the formula looks like this:

 

1*(1+1.65)

2.65

 

serration alone almost tripled your damage here, or rather, made it increase by 2.65x

 

but then you add a heavy caliber, which stacks additively with serration:

1*(1+1.65+1.65)

1*(4.3)

4.3

 

4.3 compared to 2.65 is... not even twice the amount, in fact it's only a multiplier of 1.62x, diminishing returns.

this is what makes heavy caliber bad in most scenarios (that and the accuracy loss) unless it was something else you didn't understand?

 

-that said, if you're not sniping with it and the enemy has no other elemental weaknesses, then ok, heavy caliber is the best damage increase in this case assumming both arrows hit the head.

Edited March 15, 2014 by (PS4)CrimsonShinku

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

For example, against Grineer, I'd use Bane to up Rad damage, or +90% Toxin to get a decent bonus against Gunners too.

After crunching some numbers, using Radiation+Toxic (all 90% mods) will yield ~4.4% more damage against a 500 armor (base) Heavy Gunner in comparison to a Radiation+Bane combo. If you bump up to 2000 armor, it yields ~3.8% more damage against Ferrite. Obviously, if you used Malignant Force instead, you would do less damage to Heavy Gunners compared to Radiation+Bane.

 

On the Alloy side of things, though, Radiation+Bane will fare far better than Radiation+Toxic. Against a 500 armored Alloy target, Radiation+Bane will deal ~15.3% more damage compared to Radiation+Toxic, and ~19.5% more damage against a 2000 armored Alloy target.

 

In other words, for a 3 slot combo, Radiation+Bane would generally be superior. You lose a small % of damage against Ferrite, but gain pretty big in comparison against Alloy.

 

Of course, this is for the Paris Prime. Dread and other weapons will see different ratios depending on their IPS spread. But for the Paris Prime, definitely would recommend Bane over Toxic for a Grineer build that doesn't use Heavy Caliber.

 

At some point I should really just make my own calculator lol.

Edited March 15, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[xlraistlx]

TL;DR

Nope, it was the thing I did not undestand in your previous comment.

 

But yet I have always seen the Serration + Heavy Caliber as a 430% of the base damage yet to be multiplied by critical damage and/or elementals. That's why I do not feel like

 

this is what makes heavy caliber bad in most scenarios (that and the accuracy loss)

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Nope, it was the thing I did not undestand in your previous comment.

 

But yet I have always seen the Serration + Heavy Caliber as a 430% of the base damage yet to be multiplied by critical damage and/or elementals. That's why I do not feel like

For straight up raw damage per shot, in terms of order of importance, Heavy Caliber is usually the way to go after you've already added one element. Generally, you would go Serration > Split Chamber/elemental > the one you didn't use > Heavy Caliber. You could argue a second elemental depending on the combo and what you're targeting, but this is just for plain raw damage, before weaknesses are taken into account. For crit weapons, Point Strike/Vital Sense would be added in there somewhere at some point depending on the weapon.

 

For instance, on a Synapse, Point Strike is more important than Split Chamber or an Elemental, and Vital Sense would then be the next most important mod after Point Strike, and Heavy Caliber would be the 6th most damage/shot improving mod available. In such a case, Heavy Caliber would still only be ~10% better than choosing a second elemental, and when weakness is factored in could be much weaker overall than a 2nd element. As a 7th or 8th choice mod Heavy Caliber would then be great, if you're willing to overlook the accuracy loss, because it still provides a 62% increase in damage/shot while other offerings would then give around 30%. Choosing Heavy Caliber over Bane or another element will result in ~27% more damage when all is said and done.

 

TBH I just hate inaccurate weapons, so I virtually never use Heavy Caliber.

Edited March 16, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[Darzk]

After crunching some numbers, using Radiation+Toxic (all 90% mods) will yield ~4.4% more damage against a 500 armor (base) Heavy Gunner in comparison to a Radiation+Bane combo. If you bump up to 2000 armor, it yields ~3.8% more damage against Ferrite. Obviously, if you used Malignant Force instead, you would do less damage to Heavy Gunners compared to Radiation+Bane.

I think you may have forgotten the 25% armor ignore Toxin damage carries against Ferrite. @ 2000 armor an enemy will take 1.25/6 or 20.8% of your toxin value, and only 1/7.667 or 13% of the extra radiation... toxin does 60% more damage than radiation.

 

Oh, but I forgot the mostly puncture base, which increases with bane as well and does 50% bonus to Ferrite.

 

Nevermind, you are correct, Rad+Bane is the best option.

 

Nope, it was the thing I did not undestand in your previous comment.

 

But yet I have always seen the Serration + Heavy Caliber as a 430% of the base damage yet to be multiplied by critical damage and/or elementals. That's why I do not feel like

 

HCal is +62% damage, expressed as a multiplier rather than as a additive addition. Bane, on the other hand, is a +30% modifier.

 

Using HCal instead of Bane means you deal 162% damage instead of 130%, an increase of only 24.6%, for an accuracy loss of 55%.

 

Now you begin to see the problem with HCal. +25% damage for half as accurate a weapon.

 

In addition, hitting a head shot is a 4x multiplier. Headshotting with HCal becomes problematic, so most people start aiming for bodyshots.

 

Headshots with Bane do 3.2x MORE DAMAGE than bodyshots with HCal.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Darzk

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

I think you may have forgotten the 25% armor ignore Toxin damage carries against Ferrite. @ 2000 armor an enemy will take 1.25/6 or 20.8% of your toxin value, and only 1/7.667 or 13% of the extra radiation... toxin does 60% more damage than radiation.

 

Oh, but I forgot the mostly puncture base, which increases with bane as well and does 50% bonus to Ferrite.

 

Nevermind, you are correct, Rad+Bane is the best option.

 

Yes, my calculations include Impact/Puncture/Slash damage. Again, these numbers are specific for the Paris Prime, so unless you find another weapon that does a 17.5%/80%/2.5% IPS spread or something close, I wouldn't use those numbers for other weapons.

Edited March 16, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[Lazershark]

neither. http://dpsframe.com/

[xlraistlx]

TL;DR

 

TL;DR

Thanks both of you.

 

Now after those two commentaries I see how a bane mod would be better. I usually always keep moving, aiming for headshots and elivering them i'd say 60% of the time due to the accuraccy lost. I'll definitely change to the bane mods as it will be at least 85% of the time I'll be hitting headshots.