Need Help With End Game Saryn Build

[kluchgts]

The idea behind this build was to stack health for tankiness with miasma for an "oh-S#&$" button. When I would take damage I could immediately Miasma and get out and maybe even get an energy orb for health back. Does this build work without Quick Thinking? I don't really know what I could take out for Quick Thinking.

[Mainabi]

what lvl do you mean about high lvl? since you can't rly get far as saryn..

[Dtexas]

My personal build is as follows: http://goo.gl/2wNQiX

 

It works pretty well.

[taiiat]

-snip-

are you planning this for Nightmare Missions or something? as without any Shields to speak of you'll end up losing a lot of Health, quickly - especially of you're the Host of a match.

having enough Shields to shrug off small arms fire now and then goes a long way to not getting killed.

 

that being said, Saryn is very flexible, there's a ton of options for Mod setups that work out well.

what lvl do you mean about high lvl? since you can't rly get far as saryn..

i know you love your Lobster tail and all, but you know that only absolutely applies in long Survivals or Defenses where exploiting some powers becomes very tasteful :p

[Darzk]

Cap FE and Streamline, and R2 Blind Rage instead of Flow.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/194462-so-crap-miasma-deals-invisible-ticks-f-e-should-be-maxxed/

 

I like to fit Molt in there too. Often instead of Equilibrium, and just pop health restores when I need them.

 

Molt is pretty useful. If you stand still it works like an Iron Skin, when you run enemies stop to shoot at it. The damage it does isnt great but works pretty well against Corpus.

 

 

 

Picking up BR and maxxing FE and Streamline increases the damage done by Miasma to 4037, from you're builds 2925. That's around 38% more damage, for a mod slot. Even if you don't want to use BR, you should still cap FE for around 420 more miasma damage.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Darzk

[Mainabi]

are you planning this for Nightmare Missions or something? as without any Shields to speak of you'll end up losing a lot of Health, quickly - especially of you're the Host of a match.

having enough Shields to shrug off small arms fire now and then goes a long way to not getting killed.

 

that being said, Saryn is very flexible, there's a ton of options for Mod setups that work out well.

i know you love your Lobster tail and all, but you know that only absolutely applies in long Survivals or Defenses where exploiting some powers becomes very tasteful :p

my main is saryn I've formad her 8times I dislike trinity but whatever

[kluchgts]

Cap FE and Streamline, and R2 Blind Rage instead of Flow.

Sorry but there's no way I'm going to cap FE, I lose too much damage. I forgot who did the math for all the duration loss and everything, but it's out there.

Edited March 16, 2014 by kluchgts

[kluchgts]

what lvl do you mean about high lvl? since you can't rly get far as saryn..

Maybe ~50 minutes in T3 Survival, maybe a little more on Eris.

 

are you planning this for Nightmare Missions or something? as without any Shields to speak of you'll end up losing a lot of Health, quickly - especially of you're the Host of a match.

Right now I'm not sure. I don't do many Nightmare missions anymore because I have all the mods that drop from it. I'd probably switch to my Rhino or something for Nightmare.

[taiiat]

Maybe ~50 minutes in T3 Survival, maybe a little more on Eris.

 

I'd probably switch to my Rhino or something for Nightmare.

presuming you already have someone with a setup for dedicated CC, then i suppose that could work. i'd be rather surprised though if you had the time to use Powers all the time, instead of mowing things down with your Weapons. 

Miasma makes an okay Emergency CC, but it shouldn't be relied on, as it's Duration is extremely short with any Build i've ever seen people use. which disappoints me, as i'd rather have the CC than trying to sweak out a few more levels of killing the Enemies with the Power.

i think you'll find yourself wishing you had Molt with you in such Survivals though, it pulls a lot of Gunfire off of you for a pretty good Duration(well maybe not that great of a Duration with Fleeting Expertise, but oh well), and even does some Damage.

either way, i think you're really going to want some decent Shields to shrug off the Small Arms fire, otherwise you'll find yourself out of Health a lot faster than you expected, since most incoming fire will be dealing Damage to your Health.

 

Rhino, heh. actually, i'm not even going to go there. nevermind.

[Darzk]

Sorry but there's no way I'm going to cap FE, I lose too much damage. I forgot who did the math for all the duration loss and everything, but it's out there.

 

I literally linked it in my post. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/194462-so-crap-miasma-deals-invisible-ticks-f-e-should-be-maxxed/

 

Capped FE is 8.3% more damage than -50% FE, it just doesnt show the partial tick on the damage popup. 

 

Its 14.3% more damage than -50% FE if you toss on the snakey helm too.

 

Using R2 BR and capped FE/Streamline is a damage increase of 38% over -50% duration and no BR.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Darzk

[xkillo32]

The idea behind this build was to stack health for tankiness with miasma for an "oh-S#&$" button. When I would take damage I could immediately Miasma and get out and maybe even get an energy orb for health back. Does this build work without Quick Thinking? I don't really know what I could take out for Quick Thinking.

replace vigor

it isn't that good

u have enough hp with vitality

[kluchgts]

I literally linked it in my post. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/194462-so-crap-miasma-deals-invisible-ticks-f-e-should-be-maxxed/

 

Capped FE is 8.3% more damage than -50% FE, it just doesnt show the partial tick on the damage popup. 

 

Its 14.3% more damage than -50% FE if you toss on the snakey helm too.

 

Using R2 BR and capped FE/Streamline is a damage increase of 38% over -50% duration and no BR.

Oh, sorry I was in a rush to leave I see that you changed all your math lol.

[Krymanol]

Hmm, let me do my normal analysis lol.....just seems like a miasma spamming build to me where killing with it would be more important than anything else.   I see some redundancies in the build though.  

 

First thing, I've never seen a reason to have both maxed rage and equilibrium in a build, especially with rejuvenation.   Then there is the combination of flow, streamline, fleeting expertise and equilibrium (again)....so let's take a look...

 

Saryn, with flow, will have 300 energy.  

Streamline + Fleeting expertise cuts the cost of miasma down to 30 per casting.

So from a maxed energy bar, you can cast miasma 10 times before you run out of energy. 

 

 

For the energy management....let's make a scenario here...

 

Enemy hits you with 100 points of damage.

Rage mod gives you 40 energy back

If you take 2 hits of 100 damage, you'd gain 80 energy back (this will likely happen often at higher levels).

 

But let's say the incoming damage was smaller, which means it's probably something like a MOA with high rate of fire...

 

Say it hits you for 20 damage per shot.

You'd gain 8 energy back per hit you take.

But it's probably gonna send at least 10 to 15 shots your way in a few seconds

Assuming all shots hit you, that's still 80 to 120 energy back in just a few seconds (faster than you can spam 10 miasma's).

 

Now this is not counting any energy or health orbs pickups.  With equilibrium, it would give you 28 energy for a health pickup.

If You pick up a health orb and take the above damage(s), you'd end up gaining 108 to 148 energy back in just a few seconds.

 

Now consider the use of miasma....remember you can cast it 10 times from a max energy bar (since flow gives you 300 max energy).   Well with the above scenario, you'll stay topped off on energy or recover enough energy to spam miasma pretty often.   You'll never run out of energy ever and probably would never drop below 150 energy because the incoming damage will be so often, that rage will keep your energy bar up alone.    So even if you dropped flow and only had 150 energy max, you'd still be able to spam 5 miasma's and end up recouping at least 80 energy back every few seconds (unless you're avoiding taking damage a lot, but with rage mod the idea is to purposely take damage not avoid it).

 

 

Now let's look at health....

 

You are getting +28 energy from energy orb pickups or +25 from health pickups.

Rejuvenation gives 3 health per second.

You have no other source of health management, therefore you'd need survival powers and strategy or good a team that can keep you alive.

 

Saryn will have 1290 health (150 base + 300 from levels + 180 vigor + 660vitality)...fyi, the formula is....

 

health = [base x (vigor + vatiality)] + Base + (level x healthMultiplier)

NOTE: 10 is the health multiplier for a frame who's starting base health is 150.  So 10 x 150 = 300, which is the total health saryn gains from leveling up to 30, sooo....

 

1290 = [150 x (1.2 + 4.4)] + 150 + (30 x 10)

 

 

Ok, so that's a lot of health (I didn't realize that when I started this post lol)...but yeah, you can take a lot of damage, however you only have 2 ways to recoup the health you lose to damage (unless you use consumables).   The slow rejuvenation which enemy damage can greatly outmatch and orb pickups, which depends greatly on killing fast and hope you get a energy orb (due to equilibrium) or health orb drop.

 

So level 45 - 50 enemies (which I believe would be the level at 50 minutes of survival) can easily hit you for lots of points of damage per shot.  From testing I did a while back, some level 24 enemy could do between 42 and 144 damage per attack to me.   Now I'm not sure how enemy damage scales but I know these units would do far more than 200 damage per attack at level 45 - 50.   This further strengthens my argument about recouping energy because if you're actually getting hit with 200 damage per shot from level 45 - 50 enemies, then rage is giving you at least 80 energy back each time you take damage to health or a tad bit less if some of the damage is absorbed by shields first before hitting health.  It's still a healthy amount of energy recovered.

 

So your actual survival is lacking greatly here and the only power you have for survival is miasma which with stretch gives you 21.75 range but with reduced duration due to fleeting expertise, would only last 1.6 seconds on the stun...not quite useful in being a panic button to let you get out of trouble for enemies that miasma won't or can't kill with one casting of it.  So if miasma don't kill, you're still in major trouble from ranged enemies.   So considering that you already have gone overkill with energy management as I mapped out above with equilibrium + rage + flow + streamline + fleeting expertise...I think you could safely replace any of the mods you have for better combinations or even a power like molt.   Some things I would probably consider are the following...

 

Take out flow because you'll keep recouping enough energy back from equilibrium and rage and don't need 300 max energy pool...add shields or something else, maybe even quick thinking.

 

Or

 

Take out equilibrium and put in quick thinking.

 

Or

 

Take out rage and put in shields or molt.

 

Or

 

Take out rejuvenation and rage and put in energy siphon and shields or molt

 

Or

 

Take out Vigor and either rage or equilibrium and put in shields or something else

 

Or

 

Take out fleeting expertise, vigor and equilibrium and replace them with redirection, continuity and constitution (6.3 second miasma stun is far better than the 1.6 in your build)...damage drops off at level 40+ so you'd probably need blind rage just to make the damage more important than the stun at higher levels.

 

Overall, these replacements have not considered mod space.  I've done enough number evaluation, didn't bother checking mod space for replacing mods.     Anyway, it really stands out that this build you have has greatly gone overboard on energy management.   So I would most definitely consider reducing the focus on recouping energy and increase survival and/or power effectiveness.  

[Darzk]

First thing, I've never seen a reason to have both maxed rage and equilibrium in a build, especially with rejuvenation.   Then there is the combination of flow, streamline, fleeting expertise and equilibrium (again)....so let's take a look...

 

Saryn, with flow, will have 300 energy.  

Streamline + Fleeting expertise cuts the cost of miasma down to 30 per casting.

So from a maxed energy bar, you can cast miasma 10 times before you run out of energy. 

 

75% efficiency cuts Miasma to 25 per cast, or 12 casts with Flow, 6 without.

Personally I feel Flow is overkill as well - 6 casts with R2 BR and -65% duration is 24 seconds of stun, and 24k corrosive damage.

 

Equilibrium can be very good, basically turns every energy orb into +28 health. Given that I use Rage, taking 62.5 damage means I can cast another Miasma, which generally kills enough stuff to get me an orb, which lets me cast another miasma, which gets me enough kills to get another orb - and now I'm basically back at full health (with Rejuv).

 

Miasma with -65% duration ticks 3 times, so the stun is for a complete 4 seconds. Sorry. The range is enough to take out most ranged units threatening you, as they generally move to about 20m away before they start firing.

 

The other option is to stack shields, use energy siphon/restores, and try to never take health damage. Unfortunately this leaves you with no way to counter bleeds, and the possibility (however remote) that RNG screws you with no energy orbs and you run out, and then die.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Darzk

[Darzk]

Take out fleeting expertise, vigor and equilibrium and replace them with redirection, continuity and constitution (6.3 second miasma stun is far better than the 1.6 in your build)...damage drops off at level 40+ so you'd probably need blind rage just to make the damage more important than the stun at higher levels.

 

You can push Miasma's CC ability to a 10 second stun with a 25 meter range, but it doesn't do S#&$ for damage in comparison. Then you gotta spam Venom to even contribute any DPS at all. I feel the higher damage contributed from the -duration build has a better contribution to the group.

 

This might change if melee 2.0 makes Contagion viable again. Then I might want to use my +duration build.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Darzk