Whats Better Against Grineer Viral Or Corrosive/radiation?

[RiperRazor123]

So?

[--Sokol]

Long survivals and defenses -> Radiation

Up to level 30 -> Viral or Radiation (doesn't matter)

[-Tamashii-]

A combination of both Radiation and Viral tends to work pretty well on most occasions. The first being useful against the heavy-class enemies and the latter being good on the weaker more frail enemies

[Regar]

Radiation all the way in, if you have more slots, viral is awesome, especially due to his status proc debuff

[StanicEnemy]

Viral is doing great against all grineers, radiation only doing great against heavy grineers.

Corrosive is useless.

[Cynick]

Why is corrosive useless? All Grineer have armour and the majority have ferrite armour at that. At higher levels the armour scaling means that Corrosive helps more than Viral does. 

[Raptorator]

Viral damage affects all Grineer units the same, due to their "cloned flesh" health type.

 

Corrosive damage, is very stong against all units, who wear "ferrite armor". Most light units and heavy gunner have this armore type.

 

Radiation is excelent against all units with "alloy armor", which is weared by their "elite troops", like Napalms, Bombard, Elite Lancer and most bosses exept Vor who wears a ferrit armor.

[CubedOobleck]

Viral as a great multiplier and an awesome proc, but the armor scaling causes other damage types that partly ignore armor to work better on higher levels. The biggest grineer threats wear alloy armor so radiation is an easy pick. Corrosive multiplier on ferrite is great and so is its proc, but you have to exclude it if you use viral or radiation. Poison is the next best thing you can use against ferrite armor, but it's multiplier is low and it conflicts with corrosive and viral. 

 

regular level content: . . . . viral > corrosive > radiation > poison . . . so viral and optionally radiation

high level content: . . . . . . radiation > corrosive > viral > poison . . . so radiation plus viral

really high level content: . radiation > corrosive > poison > viral . . . so radiation plus poison

 

But when you get a potatod and formad weapon with good mods then you no longer need to worry about regular and high level content, which is why Radiation+Poison (with a good puncture weapon, or stug) is the best overall option imo.

Edited March 16, 2014 by CubedOobleck

[Alighierian]

corrosive works up to the point that you're meeting napalms and bombards. and in general it's far from useless, no matter what some people dare to claim.

[Taikaponi]

Why is corrosive useless? All Grineer have armour and the majority have ferrite armour at that. At higher levels the armour scaling means that Corrosive helps more than Viral does. 

 

Only the guys with Shotguns and Gorgons have ferrite armour, as far as I know (maybe the ones with grakatas too). Elites, Bombards, Napalms, Commanders and the green guys with tiny balls all have Alloy armour. Melee units + shield lancers have no armour, so Viral is best against them. Radiation and Viral can be combined together.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Taikaponi

[(PSN)Eneokun]

They appear to be all useful, since there's always a different Grineer type to fight, and some just require different elements to really harm.

 

I'm currently researching this subject here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/196034-the-anti-grineer-weapon/

[Cynick]

Only the guys with Shotguns and Gorgons have ferrite armour, as far as I know (maybe the ones with grakatas too). Elites, Bombards, Napalms, Commanders and the green guys with tiny balls all have Alloy armour. Melee units + shield lancers have no armour, so Viral is best against them. Radiation and Viral can be combined together.

Thanks for this, I hadn't actually checked out which armour types specific grineer had.

[Wallace24]

I like using viral on weapons with high status chance, but otherwise, radiation is the one you want for high level survivals. the units that will cause you the most trouble will be bombards and napalms, and they take a lot of damage from radiation. and for that reason, you want to go radiation. radiation+viral is even better if you can fit it, because I believe heavy gunners take a lot of damage from corrosive and viral. so with radiation+viral, you can handle the heavy units. unfortunately corrosive is least useful against grineer, it just doesn't give you enough damage bonus. however, corrosive is a great one for fighting corrupted, so a lot of my guns have a corrosive+heat/cold loadout. but my grineer loadout is either radiation+toxin/viral or viral+heat

[Darzk]

Corrosive - Low levels (pre 20), or on High Proc Rate weapons (high proc + high RoF)

Couple with Fire at low levels, and stand alone at high levels, to not dilute proc chance.

 

Radiation - Higher levels, post 20.

 

Couple Radiation with Viral pre lvl 50, couple with Toxin OR Cold post lvl 50.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Darzk

[razorbak92]

Radiation vs Heavy grineer like napalms and bombards. If you have enough space, put radiation and Viral.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Corrosive - Low levels (pre 20), or on High Proc Rate weapons (high proc + high RoF)

Couple with Fire at low levels, and stand alone at high levels, to not dilute proc chance.

 

Radiation - Higher levels, post 20.

 

Couple Radiation with Viral pre lvl 50, couple with Toxin OR Cold post lvl 50.

I forget and don't feel like doing the math right now (a little ironic because I'm working on my own calculator right now lol), but wasn't Viral superior to Toxic against Ferrite targets at all armor levels?

 

THEORYCRAFTING BURNOUT

Edited March 16, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[Darzk]

I forget and don't feel like doing the math right now (a little ironic because I'm working on my own calculator right now lol), but wasn't Viral superior to Toxic against Ferrite targets at all armor levels?

 

THEORYCRAFTING BURNOUT

 

I dont want to either, but the 25% armor ignore becomes more valuable than the 50% more base damage at somewhere around 5k armor, which happens to Grineer units somewhere in the 50s

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

(1.75)(300/5300) = .099

(1.25)(300/4050) = .0925

 

doubled armor

(1.75)(300/10300) = .05097

(1.25)(300/7800) = .04807

 

?

 

I thought that while the gap between Viral and Toxic gets smaller at higher levels of Ferrite armor, Viral is still always superior regardless.

 

Also, 50% more base damage?

Edited March 16, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl

[Krymanol]

First of all, "ALL" Grineer have armor. It's just that some have such low armor value (shield lancers, butchers, scorpions) that it doesn't seem to effect your damage you do by enough to even consider their armor ratings...well at least not until you get past level 40 enemies that is.

Second, corrosive and viral aren't damage types that you should dismiss too easy, because their awesomeness comes with their procs, not their bonus damage against particular enemies.

However, you have to look at your weapon and what it's good at before mod's before you can say which element is better. A weapon with high status chance that can be boosted to 75% to 100% or more will do better with elements that have strong procs (which alter damage) than with elements bonus to a specific armor type.

See here's my take on the 3 elements being discussed here and how I think of and use them...

Radiation = crowd control because it's damage bonus is against alloy armor only, more than 75% of the enemies in the game do not have alloy armor or armor at all...and it's best use is to confuse heavy units for a time...you can get better damage out of other element combinations.

Corrosive = damage boost because it lowers armor resistance, thus increasing your damage on the target...which makes it only useful against grineer and bosses.

Viral = Burst damage because it only last 6 seconds and doesn't stack, so fast killing is what it's about...it works well for low base damage weapons that can apply procs easily....especially if those weapons have decent crit chance too. Also, it's damage bonus is verse cloned flesh (health) of all grineer. So no matter what, every grineer is vulnerable to viral....so lowering the health by 50%, reducing it's armor and getting 75% boost from viral definitely works well against any grineer unit of any level.

However, what you really need to do is get in the game and test out combinations of elements, weapons and powers to see what works...nobody can tell you what will feel best to you. On paper one element might seem the best, but sometimes what's best on paper doesn't perform as well as you might think. Remember, nobody is gonna go pure weapon damage all the time. There will be powers being used which will alter the effectiveness of your weapons. Nova, Rhino, Nekros, Valkyr, Banshee, Volt, Ember, Ash, Loki, Mag (that's more than half of the frames in the game)...all have powers that boost the effectiveness of your weapons and the damage they do....whether it's stealth boosting melee damage, A shield adding 50% electric damage, an ultimate that boost damage on enemies by 200% to 1100% or a power lowering the targets armor by a percent, these are frames that can take any kind of damage and boost it enough to make killing easier. So it's not just about a single element, but a lot of intangible factors as well. If you are ever considering elements or combined elements alone without taking into account these other important factors, then you are probably not gonna be satisfied with any build you make.

Just remember, it's not about what you use, but how you use it!

Edited March 16, 2014 by Krymanol

[RiperRazor123]

CONCLUSION:

 

If the weapon has high status chance place Viral+Radiation

 

If it doesnt have high status chance also place Viral+Radiation

 

If it does innate Corrosive or Viral or Radiation maxed them and add other elemental type against grineer(at your choice).

 

If in Orokin if you want to give hell to those machine gunners take maximum corrosive viral and puncture.

 

In the end choose what you like the most.

Edited March 16, 2014 by RiperRazor123

[Darzk]

(1.75)(300/5300) = .099

(1.25)(300/4050) = .0925

 

doubled armor

(1.75)(300/10300) = .05097

(1.25)(300/7800) = .04807

 

 

Huh. I must have done the math wrong at some point. Probably got the numbers mixed up or something inverted. Twice in one day, need more sleep :(

 

However I would still argue that stealing a mod spot from Viral, making cold or toxin, and using that mod slot to bump damage with Bane (especially on high puncture weapons) or more Radiation would be more beneficial on low proc weapons.

 

 

Viral's proc is not as great as it seems on most weapons. It's only useful if it proc's before the enemy unit hits half health. If it procs before the half health point, all damage done before the proc is completely irrelevant. If it procs after the half health point it's completely useless. Even if it procs on the first shot it completely negates the damage of that shot, so it's particularly bad on heavy hitting weapons like explosives or snipers.

 

 

Amended: 

 

Corrosive for low levels, or with a high proc rate weapon. Couple with Cold or Fire, not both.

 

Radiation for high levels, coupled with Viral.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

However I would still argue that stealing a mod spot from Viral, making cold or toxin, and using that mod slot to bump damage with Bane (especially on high puncture weapons) or more Radiation would be more beneficial on low proc weapons.

That might work, but I'm too lazy to check right now. Maybe later lol.

[Paradoxbomb]

Best to have both: Radiation for damage to Elites/Heavies and viral since the status effect can chop a chunk of their health off. But I guess prioritize Radiation since the boost in damage is more reliable than a percent chance to reduce their health.

 

Corrosive is sub-par against most high level Grineer since it has no damage bonus against Alloy armor, and the armor reduction bonus is inferior to the raw damage bonus from simply using Radiation damage, but Corrosive is king in high level Void missions where you'll be dealing with a lot of Heavy Gunners (who do take bonus damage from corrosive).

[senmurai]

To the point question, since "higher levels" and similar notions are not precise enough:

 

Inputs:

- Loki - invisible build

- solo survival aiming for the greatest possible efficiency against level 50+ Grineer (for example)

- can use Latron Prime / Boltor Prime (until now I used the first, now the Boltor is ready for testing)

- I like the Shred / Metal Auger and I would like to fit them in the build somehow.

 

Questions:

- both weapons seam to have low proc chance; do I want to use Hammer Shot / similar mods?

- under lv 40 enemy should be no issue while using a 4+ forma Latron / Boltor, right? So which elemental combo would be ideal for my situation?

- Bane of Grineer maybe?

 

Thank you.

[Darzk]

We don't care about Proc chance, as neither weapon has high enough proc rate to go corrosive.

 

Serration, Split Chamber, Shred, Bane.

Latron Prime should use the two crit mods (PS/VS) + 180% Radiation

Boltor Prime should use Heavy Caliber, +180% Radiation +90% Toxin or Cold - You might be better off going with both to make Viral and ditching Shred. Less DPS, but more damage/ammo, and you lose punchthrough.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Darzk

[senmurai]

What do you mean we do not care about Proc chance? Is it too low? If it's too low, why have any elements at all?...

Thank you for the explenation :)