The Purpose Of Ammo

[PhotriusPyrelus]

I've been wondering this for a long, long time: what is the point of having "limited" ammo capacity in this game?

 

Outside what seems to me to be unfair punishment of so called "dakka" weapons, I really can't see a point. It drops so incredibly much, and the weapons that aren't veritable "bullet hoses" consume so little per time or kill that you will never run out unless you can't hit the broad side of a barn. So why even have an ammunition limitation at all?

 

If you want to keep ammunition, then can't it be meaningful (and a little more equal among the weapon types)? Instead of being able to carry 200 pistol rounds, maybe you carry 5 magazines. Instead of an ammo drop giving you 20 pistol shots, it gives you another magazine (and maybe they shouldn't drop off every second enemy... <.<). Instead of increasing your maximum ammo by 20%, Ammo Drum (et alli) lets you start with and carry up to an addition magazine per rank.

 

If ammunition limitation is in the game, (the same should be said for anything in a game, really) it needs to be meaningful. Running out of ammo should be a real possibility outside a few special casts; all Tenno have a melee weapon, running out of ammunition is a perfect reason to use it.

 

EDIT:  Fixed formatting I lost upon posting.

Edited March 16, 2014 by PhotriusPyrelus

[Aktriaz]

[LikeABawsh]

You have never used twin vipers.

 

Something that spits out so many bullets needs to have a downside, and that's its ammo economy. Even with frequent pistol drops, you'll be hard pressed for ammo when using guns like these MPs.

Edited March 16, 2014 by LikeABawsh

[LovecraftJF]

You have never used twin vipers.

 

That's exactly what he's talking about. Why do the vipers empty after ~4 reloads when Ogris has ~540 rockets? It just doesn't make sense.

[FoxNightscape]

You have never used twin vipers.

 

Something that spits out so many bullets needs to have a downside, and that's its ammo economy. Even with frequent pistol drops, you'll be hard pressed for ammo when using guns like these MPs.

 

I think that sums it up. Ammo economy is actually a sorta big thing when I pick a new gun. Things like the Akstilettos, Twin Vipers, Gorgons, Somas. A lot of those machine guns really eat ammo. Even the constant fire ones like Flux and Synapse chew it like popcorn. But then you have the snipers which are incredibly ammo efficient to the damage. But, snipers. Who has time to actually snipe when running around a Corpus ship.

[Naqel]

I've been on that crusade already.

 

Then DE released their ammo conversion mods, proving that they're willing to adamantly stand by even the worst of their decisions.

[Wallace24]

fortunately melee 2.0 will mean that melee will be viable once you run out of ammo. but ammo efficiency is something that should be considered when choosing what weapons you want for a mission. it really only comes into play on endless defense and survival missions for most weapons, but weapons with very poor ammo economy (machine pistols, boar prime, for example) that eat through their clip and all the reserves in a matter of seconds run into this issue in normal missions

 

some weapons do need some rebalancing in terms of ammo, I suppose (launchers, mainly. drawing from the rifle ammo pool gives them 540 base extra ammo, and I don't think anyone's ever had under 400 ammo while using the penta or ogris). but shifting it to a certain number of clips, I dunno about that. guess it might make mag capacity mods more useful. but in all honesty, no, everything is fairly balanced as is right now. it's a nice idea, switching to clips instead of total ammo. but most shooters don't work like that, so we constantly reload, because these games don't simulate reality. you wouldn't reload if you shot one or two bullets from a 50 round clip. but we do. it's just how these games are

 

plus stuff like the bronco series pistols would become awful if you limited them to anything less than 40-100 extra magazines to start with

 

tl;dr - no. you should run some longer survival/defense missions, then you'll appreciate guns with better ammo efficiency

[LoGicMoTion]

Penta/orgis need ammo nerf

I dont care who you are 540 rockets yeah right...

[theammostore]

The purpose of ammo?

 

So I can sell it. *points to username*

 

 

Other than that, I agree. However, I would rather they just do away with it in general. Limit it by reload speed from a limited pool of ammo reserves that slowly regens, or has a cooldown period where you just get a bunch more after a while. Iunno, but it needs a change.

[Tsukinoki]

The problem with the idea is that we have two extremes:
-Weapons that are extremely ammo efficient
-Weapons that are extremely ammo inefficient.

And its hard to balance around them when you just say "Lets just use X clips instead of an ammo pool!"

Why?
Look at the Bronco.
Give it 5 extra clips...congrats you now have 12 shots....better hope pistol ammo drops off of every enemy in the match or you wont make it past the second room.
Same with the castanas....

Then look at the gorgon.
Give it 5 extra clips and you have....540 ammo base and lose nothing.

Then look at all of the weapons that deal low damage and yet have small clips.
You're mostly just passing out a major nerf to a majority of weapons and barely affecting the weapons you're probably complaining about (ogris, penta) all that much.

An ogris or penta user wont care.  Their ammo drops often enough and 25 ogris ammo?  That'll *easily* last them to the next pickup.
12 pistol ammo for castanas or bronco...yeah right that wont last at all.

And this would also make the dual pistols even more superior than the single versions...as if we really needed that.

And until Melee 2.0 drops melee is fairly useless at the higher planets.
Good luck going into melee against the CC heavy grineer forces on pluto!

Edited March 16, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[De_bil]

OP i have no idea what the hell are you playing, but i'm out off ammo on my braton and the new gorgon almost all the time, so getting even  less ammo is &#036;&amp;*&amp;*#(%&amp;

[LikeABawsh]

That's exactly what he's talking about. Why do the vipers empty after ~4 reloads when Ogris has ~540 rockets? It just doesn't make sense.

Comparing the power and ammo economy of a high-ranking ClanTech weapon to a low ranking Marketplace weapon isn't exactly "making sense" either. The Ogris deserves to be as powerful as it is because it's harder to manufacture, not to mention the higher MR requirement.

[Lunamaniac]

Sniper ammo needs to be replaced with rifle ammo.  When ogris has a 540 base ammo why do snipers have 72 with fewer drops?

[Tsukinoki]

OP i have no idea what the hell are you playing, but i'm out off ammo on my braton and the new gorgon almost all the time, so getting even  less ammo is &#036;&amp;*&amp;*#(%&amp;

There is this to consider as well.

Try taking an unmodded MK1-Braton through Venus (and I've been with plenty of new players that haven't found a single rifle mod by the end of Mercury) and see how much ammo you use and regain in some of missions there.

The vets with ammo mods and mutators wont feel the decrease.

The new players given a Lato (80 rounds under your idea) and MK1-Braton (360 rounds under your idea) would be suffering even more by Earth than they currently are.

As it stands the current ammo system is forgiving enough for the new players.  And that is a *very* important thing to remember.

if you make it too harsh then you just drive off even more new players and kill the game.

[PhotriusPyrelus]

The problem with the idea is that we have two extremes:

-Weapons that are extremely ammo efficient

-Weapons that are extremely ammo inefficient.

And its hard to balance around them when you just say "Lets just use X clips instead of an ammo pool!"

Why?

Look at the Bronco.

Give it 5 extra clips...congrats you now have 12 shots....better hope pistol ammo drops off of every enemy in the match or you wont make it past the second room.

Same with the castanas....

Then look at the gorgon.

Give it 5 extra clips and you have....540 ammo base and lose nothing.

Then look at all of the weapons that deal low damage and yet have small clips.

You're mostly just passing out a major nerf to a majority of weapons and barely affecting the weapons you're probably complaining about (ogris, penta) all that much.

An ogris or penta user wont care.  Their ammo drops often enough and 25 ogris ammo?  That'll *easily* last them to the next pickup.

12 pistol ammo for castanas or bronco...yeah right that wont last at all.

And this would also make the dual pistols even more superior than the single versions...as if we really needed that.

And until Melee 2.0 drops melee is fairly useless at the higher planets.

Good luck going into melee against the CC heavy grineer forces on pluto!

Intersting points, I didn't fully consider the 5-mags for the Broncos.  I just don't get it why I can use my Akbroncos, literally, for a full mission and never have to ever worry about ammo, when they feel much stronger than my Akfuris, which runs dry in relatively no time.

 

 

Really, I agree with theammostore (that they should really just do away with ammo reserve and use reload timer as a balance point), but I thought that idea would be too 'radical' (EDIT: as well as rendering pointless a number of mods), so I tried to come up with an alternative.  And if they did do away with that, and shift it to reload, then what role does melee play?  I've not really looked into Melee 2.0, but it's felt pretty harshly nerfed since I last played,  :shrug:

Edited March 16, 2014 by PhotriusPyrelus

[Kato-san]

The harder you make to get ammo, the more you will force players to use weapons with good ammo efficiency.

Edited March 16, 2014 by MindlessWar

[FoxNightscape]

The harder you make to get ammo, the more you will force players to use weapons with good ammo efficiency.

 SeerHYPE. *cough*

 

Anywho. On the point of all Clantech being ammo efficient, I give you the Akstilettos. They're not as efficient as 99% of what's out there. But then I'll bring up the Flux and Synapse and their penchant for nomming ammo like popcorn and running out at the WORST possible time. 

 

I think the ammo thing is more there to mock and taunt you in a survival, when you run out of ammo for your corrosive Synapse and there's three gunners staring you down.

[ServareVitas]

I have to agree that this game does grace you with an exorbitantly high volume of ammunition.... I never run out of ammo with anything. I've never used an ammo box... I've done defences to wave 30 without even moving from my box for ammo. I would hate unlimited ammo it would just dumb the game down even further but you're right there is a large disparity between the amount of ammunition you can carry for some weapons. Soma 600ish rounds yeah... That's 6 magazines it's quite feasible but something like the Ogris 540 rockets? Just where the hell do they come from? I personally think all 'rocket/grenade launchers' should be limited to 20-30 rounds... I mean they're bloody rockets!