The Rise Of The Status Builds

[LordMidnightX]

With the edition of yet another mod for status chance will the better build for weapons be for status builds or straight dps builds?

 

some pros of status builds

1. the mods are cheaper meaning less formas are needed to fill out a build

2. better chance to stun,stagger and hit multiple enemies per shot aka crowd control

 

pros of Dps builds

1. kill stuff faster

 

 

discuss

 

 

 

 

ps, damage 2.0 was suppose to kinda end rainbow builds... was fighting kril earlier it is blinding when he has like every proc on him, but still entertaining. 

 

[Papa_Nuk_Nuk]

You misunderstand.  Elemental mods apply damage all the time, but the extra effect as a "status"
My damage is 365 Puncture, 40 Impact, and 0 Slash
My 90% cold mod ALWAYS does 365 cold damage, but only slows enemies 12.5% of the time (my status chance)

My total damage would be 365+40+365 EVERY HIT.

 

It is more effective to use elemental mods than physical damage mods, other than the mod energy cost.

[Kato-san]

I always found status chance to be useless... Because enemies die so fast you do not have time to make use of the proc.

Now if Elemental mods did damage only when proc... that would be a different story...but crit weapons would be more OP.

Edited March 16, 2014 by MindlessWar

[gnat6]

You misunderstand.  Elemental mods apply damage all the time, but the extra effect as a "status"

My damage is 365 Puncture, 40 Impact, and 0 Slash

My 90% cold mod ALWAYS does 365 cold damage, but only slows enemies 12.5% of the time (my status chance)

My total damage would be 365+40+365 EVERY HIT.

 

It is more effective to use elemental mods than physical damage mods, other than the mod energy cost.

He's talking about the dual stat elemental mods versus the normal elemental mods.

[taiiat]

combination of Viral, Corrosive, Magnetic, and Blast - with all of these Status Boosts, and.... i think you see where this is going.

[Paradoxbomb]

Not until we have some way of controlling which status effect we actually get. Right now the only thing I feel is holding back Damage 2.0's status effect system from being truly spectacular (or gamebreakingly OP, either one) is the fact that even with 77% status on the Grakata, more than half of them are more than likely going to be puncture or bleed effects (which are substantailly less useful than say, viral or blast effects).

 

If we could prioritize certain effects and therefore reliably build our weapons around them, than perhaps they'll be an alternative to straight up DPS and feel less like a gimmick that just sorta happens every now and then.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Paradoxbomb

[Phillip9313]

I wish they fixed the status of continuous weapons. My flux loves to proc it's elemental's but it's limited to once per second and do you know how much ammo you burn through in that time?

 

But it's still awesome to drop an enemy WAY faster than it should have because of a lucky viral proc

[CandyDragon]

Straight up dps? You don't mean to suggest you simply use the "serration + split chamber + Heavy calibur" with a bunch of silly mods to augment ammo and clip capacity do you?

[123Olympian]

Tysis is a great example.

 

If status was buffed, maybe I would, it's just that they don't do much...status.

 

As a Paris prime can do work faster than Tysis.

[FoxNightscape]

I'll just say this. Cicero and Tethra have done it. Latron Prime: 80%. Strun Wraith: 90%. Akstiletto: 70%. 

 

WIth those kind of numbers going from corrosive/cold for pure damage to viral/elec for the viral and chain lightning proc is kinda worth it. Hell, Radiation's proc is uber, even if most things are resistant to radiation damage. Kinda puts a new spin on things.

[Papa_Nuk_Nuk]

He's talking about the dual stat elemental mods versus the normal elemental mods.

It seems as if I misunderstand.

I personally use a combo of one combo elemental (rads, corrosive, gas, or viral) and one single elemental (toxic, heat, cold, ele).  With the addition of 2 types of status chance+damage mods, I can make my preferred builds.  

 

On my Boltor Prime, I have the standard 3 (serration, split, and HC), Shred, and then I vary between 4 elementals, usually Corrosive+cold or Radiation + cold or magnetic + toxin

toxic damage, electric damage, cold damage, then toxic/ele status (doesn't matter which)

Heat damage, electric damage, Cold damage, then ele status

Cold damage, Ele damage, Toxic damage, then ele status

 

I guess I use the DPS ones?  Because I use damage 2.0 to my advantage?  Idk, take your pick.

[Papa_Nuk_Nuk]

I'll just say this. Cicero and Tethra have done it. Latron Prime: 80%. Strun Wraith: 90%. Akstiletto: 70%. 

 

WIth those kind of numbers going from corrosive/cold for pure damage to viral/elec for the viral and chain lightning proc is kinda worth it. Hell, Radiation's proc is uber, even if most things are resistant to radiation damage. Kinda puts a new spin on things.

That moment when the corrupted heavies are ground slamming eachother in T3 survival at 30 minutes and not trying to kill you.

[FoxNightscape]

That moment when the corrupted heavies are ground slamming eachother in T3 survival at 30 minutes and not trying to kill you.

Okay. I'll admit it. I giggled madly at that idea. Excuse me, going to mod my latprime Radiation/Viral now. 

 

... Just realized Rad and VIral are complimentary dual-elements. And two of the best procs in the game. 

 

Excuse me, going to mod my LatPrime to possibly give me giggly orgasmic joy.

[Papa_Nuk_Nuk]

Okay. I'll admit it. I giggled madly at that idea. Excuse me, going to mod my latprime Radiation/Viral now. 

 

... Just realized Rad and VIral are complimentary dual-elements. And two of the best procs in the game. 

 

Excuse me, going to mod my LatPrime to possibly give me giggly orgasmic joy.

Use a Tysis.  over 100% status chance.

But ikr

[FoxNightscape]

Use a Tysis.  over 100% status chance.

But ikr

Tysis just has such low damage and that fire rate is atrocious. As a Seer worshipper even I hate the Tysis' effective DPS.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

You guys having fun with Radiation procs should take an invis frame and proc it on Lech on Phobos.

[.Talia.]

I see potential in the Status Chance builds, but right now, pure damage is just better.

There are some really good status procs:

Viral and Blast are amazing

And then there are some Status Procs that are really good, but more specific like:

Corrosive (at higher levels vs armored units) and Magnetic (vs high level corpus)

But to be honest, everything die so fast, i would rather have higher damage.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Magnetic is okay, Corrosive I'm really not that big a fan of unless I simply am going to be using it already because I'm in the Void for Heavy Gunners or it is the weapon's default damage type. Corrosive requires a lot of procs to make your weapon's overall damage per shot equal to using the same slots for Radiation. During the time you rack up those 5-7+ procs, you are dealing less damage per shot, so you don't even break even until well after you get those 5-7+ procs.

 

For people who use really spray heavy weapons or Corrosive default weapons, maybe it's good. But it's hard enough to get Corrosive to proc in the first place since the game typically seems so happy to proc physical statuses instead, and I personally use high damage per shot weapons, so Corrosive vs. Alloy is never really an option for me.

[LordMidnightX]

Ok to clarify a few things when I say straight dps I mean putting every type of damage you can fit to make the best dps build possible, vs a status build

 

this is also a discussion for later game. on lower levels as people said things die to fast for procs to actually matter. but later game will that proc save you or is it better just to kills stuff faster. 

 

I also agree it is probably best to go dps builds, at least until we actually can influence which things proc. 

[leonvision]

problem is this:

most procs doesnt do damage, meaning they dont kill. procs that DOES do damage SCALES off damage, so damage mods are needed. so in the end, damage mods are still mandatory.

[Papa_Nuk_Nuk]

Magnetic is okay, Corrosive I'm really not that big a fan of unless I simply am going to be using it already because I'm in the Void for Heavy Gunners or it is the weapon's default damage type. Corrosive requires a lot of procs to make your weapon's overall damage per shot equal to using the same slots for Radiation. During the time you rack up those 5-7+ procs, you are dealing less damage per shot, so you don't even break even until well after you get those 5-7+ procs.

 

For people who use really spray heavy weapons or Corrosive default weapons, maybe it's good. But it's hard enough to get Corrosive to proc in the first place since the game typically seems so happy to proc physical statuses instead, and I personally use high damage per shot weapons, so Corrosive vs. Alloy is never really an option for me.

We don't really use Corrosive for the proc (unless we have high proc chances by default), we use it because it does damage against ferrite armor.

Personally, I use rads and cold vs. Grineer, and Corrosive only comes into play against the infested (corrosive and heat combo)

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Yes I know, I just feel like using Corrosive for the proc should be a reason to take it against high level Grineer. It is specifically an anti-armor proc. Yet in practice, that isn't how it works because of how much it takes to get something worthwhile out of the proc, which I find a disappointing. I'm only talking specifically about their procs, here, since the title is status builds and whatnot.

[Rakosta_Kai]

problem is this:

most procs doesnt do damage, meaning they dont kill. procs that DOES do damage SCALES off damage, so damage mods are needed. so in the end, damage mods are still mandatory.

I think that's really the insidious point of 2.0.

It's designed to encourage you to switch weapons frequently.

Get a proc from one weapon designed to thrive on getting procs and switch to a different weapon to do real dps.

 

For my part I will say I have no idea.

I fit what elements I can on the weapons I'm using. I work to have not less than 3 with ice being alone in the build as I always appreciate when it procs. I avoid all physical damage other than slash if the weapon has alot of it because the proc is deadly on it's own.

 

Past that, I'm kinda hoping for the best at this point

[Krymanol]

Proc builds are mostly effective (and probably meant) for weapons that don't have IPS values or who's IPS values are fairly low to begin with, or weapons that only have minimal IPS values...such has having impact but no puncture or slash etc.   But that doesn't mean that IPS guns can't make use of proc builds.

 

Remember, Impact knocks back.

Puncture reduces the enemies damage by roughly 30%.

Slash gives you a nice bleed proc that I believe stacks.   

 

So I'm sorry but I'd love to land a -30% damage puncture proc on a level 50 napalm...it mean's I'll take a lot less damage.   Meanwhile I'll take that bleed proc, that toxin proc, that gas proc, that corrosive proc or any other proc I can get, when I can get it.  It doesn't matter if I can kill the enemy in one shot, sooner or later I'll run into an enemy that I can't kill in one shot and that's when procs will help more.   Every tiny bit helps in the long run.  Pure damage isn't the only way to kill things. 

 

Also one of the most important factors about using proc build is the entertainment value....

 

I love seeing enemies turn on each other and fight it out due to radiation proc.

I love seeing hundred's of number's poring from that corpus or grineer trying to hide behind the wall so I can't shoot him anymore.

I love seeing that enemy with 10,000 health get cut down to 5,000 health.

I love seeing those swarms of infesting charging at you only to all get knocked back or knocked down by gas or impact procs.

I love seeing a boss, capture target or heavy unit die from a bleed proc.

 

 

So yeah, pure damage is boring most of the time (unless you get an insane crit, love those), but procs are just more fun all the time.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Proc builds are mostly effective (and probably meant) for weapons that don't have IPS values or who's IPS values are fairly low to begin with, or weapons that only have minimal IPS values...such has having impact but no puncture or slash etc.   But that doesn't mean that IPS guns can't make use of proc builds.

 

Remember, Impact knocks back.

Puncture reduces the enemies damage by roughly 30%.

Slash gives you a nice bleed proc that I believe stacks.   

 

So I'm sorry but I'd love to land a -30% damage puncture proc on a level 50 napalm...it mean's I'll take a lot less damage.   Meanwhile I'll take that bleed proc, that toxin proc, that gas proc, that corrosive proc or any other proc I can get, when I can get it.  It doesn't matter if I can kill the enemy in one shot, sooner or later I'll run into an enemy that I can't kill in one shot and that's when procs will help more.   Every tiny bit helps in the long run.  Pure damage isn't the only way to kill things. 

 

Also one of the most important factors about using proc build is the entertainment value....

 

I love seeing enemies turn on each other and fight it out due to radiation proc.

I love seeing hundred's of number's poring from that corpus or grineer trying to hide behind the wall so I can't shoot him anymore.

I love seeing that enemy with 10,000 health get cut down to 5,000 health.

I love seeing those swarms of infesting charging at you only to all get knocked back or knocked down by gas or impact procs.

I love seeing a boss, capture target or heavy unit die from a bleed proc.

 

 

So yeah, pure damage is boring most of the time (unless you get an insane crit, love those), but procs are just more fun all the time.

Procs are entirely reliant on your (scaled) base damage from what I've tested. For instance, how much slash damage you have is irrelevant as far as your slash procs go, as it is calculated off of your total base damage. I tested this using a Dread and Sawtooth Clip, the addition of which did not change the damage of my toxic procs. Toxic procs are the same - your total Toxic damage is irrelevant, again based entirely off of your total base damage instead. I tested this by using an unranked Infected Clip, a maxed Malignant Force, and a combo of maxed Malignant Force and maxed Infected Clip together and saw no change in toxic proc damage. So if you want procs that individually deal good damage, you must have a weapon that has high base damage as well, or a weapon that has whatever for base damage but procs them non-stop (which is ammo inefficient but yeah).

 

So in a sense, pure damage (Serration/Hornet Strike) are still some of the biggest factors in having an effective weapon that kills through procs. Yeah....

Edited March 17, 2014 by omgwtflolbbl