Invasion Need Not Be An Extermination Mission

[MaverickZero]

Hi,

 

This post contains suggestions/ideas and will be long, if you won't read entirely please refrain from posting.

 

As you all might have noticed, Invasion missions are basic extermination missions at their core. You are forced to do them multiple times in a row to be rewarded. The gameplay is as boring as it can get. This was proven during the not-so-awesome event that required to do them 100 times for one of the 2 sides. We don't need that in my opinion.

 

I have 2 suggestions for revamping Invasions (to look like an invasion) and one of them heavily relies on quests so it's my favorite (The first one).

 

#1

A) Map: (what I had in mind) similar to Kashyyyk map from Star Wars Battlefront II. Huge and open.

B) Spawns: normal spawns are unlimited. Spawns 1 boss of each faction. Spawns many leader units for each objective/quest.

C) Gameplay: the mission consists of many smaller capture location/defend location/capture target/defend target/escort units/eliminate units objectives. With each successful objective you reduce the enemy tickets. Each failure costs your faction tickets. Whichever faction hits 0 tickets is prone to losing. It is not an automatic win(!). You must perform a Final Push and eliminate all the remaining enemy forces in their base including their boss. Your faction's boss will assist you in that. Every successful objective grants more units/leader units for the final push. The enemy base is filled with a large number of leader units and heavy units so each ally counts for something (cannon fodder at least).

D) Examples of objectives: capture/defend the landing pad. Capture enemy lieutenant/ defend leader unit. Escort engineers/ eliminate enemy snipers. Note: 2 objectives will be active at the same time (team needs to split up in 2's to cover all) Solo players will have to choose the objective granting the most points or rely on faction allies to hold it until they can reach the other objective (allies can make a difference!!).

 

#2 the dumbed-down version: Corridor Wars

A) Map: (what I had in mind) similar to Polis Massa map from Star Wars Battlefront II. Tight corridors everywhere.

B) Spawns: normal spawns are unlimited. Leader spawns are high. Chance for spawning a boss.

C) Gameplay: you capture locations then defend them and you keep going in the same fashion until you capture the last location (enemy base). You must hold all locations to win so allies must help defend the previous nodes while you progress. For each location you capture it (to 100%) and hold it for 30 seconds then defend against the counter attack (has a large number of enemy leader units) and proceed. For each location there is a secondary objective that if successful grants buffs to allies and your team and fortifies the location. There's a chance (per location) for a boss to spawn (once per map) during the counter attack that if killed doesn't allow enemies to spawn anymore near that node (node is guaranteed to be yours).

D) Examples of secondary objectives: Get 10 melee kills gives increases melee for your side. Get 10 headshots gives increased damage for your side. Do not sustain HP damage increases HP for your side. Kill 5 enemies with warframe abilities grants rollers/shield ospreys spawns for that node.

 

*As an added effect: In #1 allies cheer the Tenno for successful completion of objectives. In #2 allies cheer the Tenno for success at secendary objectives.

**Units that spawn thanks to the Tenno success carry a holograph of the lotus symbol

***Allies gain buffs for stacking kills: 3 kills -> HP regain per sec. 7 kills -> increased damage. 10 kills -> increased damage and HP.

****Allies slowly recover HP (in pulses) in bases/nodes if it's 100% captured.

 

Invasions are crappy at best (when you have a naplam on your side that kills everything for you) but are usually much much worse because allies mean NOTHING. These 2 ideas might fix that.

 

Please state:

1) If you'd like to see something like this in place of Invasion or not.

2) Criticism/ideas.

Edited March 17, 2014 by MaverickZero

[spysweeper242]

You win the intranet

[MaverickZero]

You win the intranet

Thanks for the contribution. I hope you enjoy that 1 extra post on your profile..

[meIody-]

You win the intranet

The within net? Intra means within, not between. So he basically wins LAN?

[ZephyrAM]

They are, in a way, their own style, because while they are basically exterminate, you're generally teamed up with a faction to accomplish it. And not all of the stages affected by planet invasions have the 'Invasion' tag, sometimes they're other random map types (possibly whatever the stage is by default.)

 

While they could add more stage types (and likely will eventually - i.e. Interception) there's no reason to remove the pure 'Invasion' invasions from the system. They're fantastic ways to level frames/weapons, as they're very easy to team up for and having a full faction on your side can support you even if you're rather weak for the area, or even if you wanted to solo.

 

Overall, there's no reason to remove them entirely.

[MaverickZero]

They are, in a way, their own style, because while they are basically exterminate, you're generally teamed up with a faction to accomplish it. And not all of the stages affected by planet invasions have the 'Invasion' tag, sometimes they're other random map types (possibly whatever the stage is by default.)

 

While they could add more stage types (and likely will eventually - i.e. Interception) there's no reason to remove the pure 'Invasion' invasions from the system. They're fantastic ways to level frames/weapons, as they're very easy to team up for and having a full faction on your side can support you even if you're rather weak for the area, or even if you wanted to solo.

 

Overall, there's no reason to remove them entirely.

I thought it might elevate the game mode into a mid-game (not endgame) level. It requires some teamwork and attention. Currently Invasion = Extermination but with some mobs hanging around. Only advantage right now is most of the time you'll find people playing it versus the normal Extermination mode. The same mode labeled twice is not a good idea for content.

[MaverickZero]

Just to note: I started typing this with the intention of asking what was wrong in Invasion mode. I ended up answering my questions because of how universally agreed upon the problems were. So I think the final version should be in level/mode design section.

 

Maybe a mod could move it there?

[Cabadath5]

YES please!

 

God, I hope DE doesn't ignore this post like they do with most good ideas that got suggested on these forums!

[ZephyrAM]

I thought it might elevate the game mode into a mid-game (not endgame) level. It requires some teamwork and attention. Currently Invasion = Extermination but with some mobs hanging around. Only advantage right now is most of the time you'll find people playing it versus the normal Extermination mode. The same mode labeled twice is not a good idea for content.

Which is all well and good... but you're looking to require teamwork and attention when people can't even keep an eye out for the broken lights there's so much complaint about. And I'd guess that those most bored with Invasion missions are also those built to solo them and leave their team behind.

 

I don't fully disagree with you. but these missions 'need' to be things that players can clear reliably and without worrying about relying on terrible groups that cause them to fail. Nobody would want to do them even more often because they actually lose them.

[Sapphirya]

You had me at "Kashyyk map from Star Wars Battlefront II".

Edited March 17, 2014 by xSapphire

[MaverickZero]

Which is all well and good... but you're looking to require teamwork and attention when people can't even keep an eye out for the broken lights there's so much complaint about. And I'd guess that those most bored with Invasion missions are also those built to solo them and leave their team behind.

 

I don't fully disagree with you. but these missions 'need' to be things that players can clear reliably and without worrying about relying on terrible groups that cause them to fail. Nobody would want to do them even more often because they actually lose them.

Why does it have to be a low-level, low-skill, low-teamwork mode? Does it say that anywhere in the game? on the forums? on the livestreams?

 

It's just extermination with a different label.

[.Talia.]

take my upvote

[MaverickZero]

YES please!

 

God, I hope DE doesn't ignore this post like they do with most good ideas that got suggested on these forums!

It will be. There is a visible trend.

[ZephyrAM]

Why does it have to be a low-level, low-skill, low-teamwork mode? Does it say that anywhere in the game? on the forums? on the livestreams?

 

It's just extermination with a different label.

Do you believe people will continually do challenging missions that they have to rely on random other players to complete? Over and over?

 

Invasions are the only repeatable content, outside of Derelict/Tower stuff, for players to do and actually get rewards for. Sometimes, they even grant seriously valuable Catalyst/Reactor BP's that 'everyone' should be able to get. 

 

They shouldn't be exclusionary, that's all.

[MaverickZero]

Do you believe people will continually do challenging missions that they have to rely on random other players to complete? Over and over?

 

Invasions are the only repeatable content, outside of Derelict/Tower stuff, for players to do and actually get rewards for. Sometimes, they even grant seriously valuable Catalyst/Reactor BP's that 'everyone' should be able to get. 

 

They shouldn't be exclusionary, that's all.

The content being repeatable is a huge plus. BUT if it is the same EXACT thing over and over and over people don't actually play it to have fun or be challenged. They just want to snag the reward. The reward is the only thing keeping Invasion alive currently (G3 and Harvester included). They are willing to grind it for that. Wouldn't the reward force the players to perform better if the Invasion was more demanding??

 

I answer yes in my case.

[MaverickZero]

Do you believe people will continually do challenging missions that they have to rely on random other players to complete? Over and over?

 

Invasions are the only repeatable content, outside of Derelict/Tower stuff, for players to do and actually get rewards for. Sometimes, they even grant seriously valuable Catalyst/Reactor BP's that 'everyone' should be able to get. 

 

They shouldn't be exclusionary, that's all.

To mitigate a part of your objection: Current Invasion missions are [exclusionary]. If you don't have the planet/node/level already open you can't do it (unless you get a 'taxi'). So it excludes people in some way.

[MaverickZero]

On second thought, can we please keep this topic in the General Discussion? At least 2-3 days to give it a chance to be seen. Moving it would be a death-sentence.

 

Please.

[sorq]

I think invasion would be fun if it's like interception.

We stand at holes where enemies pop out and close the holes.

[Flaming_Snake]

As long as I don't have to side with Alad V.

 

Hate that guy.

[ZephyrAM]

To mitigate a part of your objection: Current Invasion missions are [exclusionary]. If you don't have the planet/node/level already open you can't do it (unless you get a 'taxi'). So it excludes people in some way.

That's a fair point, but one that can be overcome with simple play time, which is different from skill/teamwork. But yes, I would very much like to think that players would push themselves to be better if they needed to in order to get the reward, but I don't believe it would be the case. If it became more difficult, I believe the better players would simply stop doing the Invasions. The rewards just aren't good enough for them to 'waste their time on' if they have to rely on potentially weaker players.

 

And where would that leave the 'weaker' players? Unable to win. Only the mid range population would ever get anywhere: low level wouldn't be able to win, and high level wouldn't be bothered to try. Which I guess might be what you're aiming for, mid-level gaming.

 

Again though, I have no problem including new mission types, just don't make stuff like that above be the only type. 

 

--

 

All that said, I'd think that the outcome could affect people playing the Invasions, as currently, the Invasions really don't do anything. The Grineer rule the planet, or the Corpus do... so what? If you want to make the missions more involving and challenging, you first need to make sure people have a reason to care about them.

 

No matter how monotonous, people will repeat easy content for some rewards. If you want them to have to try though, you need to make them 'believe' that it's worth their time and effort.

 

The current Invasion system overall is not. (Excluding the 'very' rare Catalyst/Reactor BPs)

[LegendOfAB]

What hurts the most is the fact that you have to do it 5 times...

 

Edited March 17, 2014 by LegendOfAB

[MaverickZero]

That's a fair point, but one that can be overcome with simple play time, which is different from skill/teamwork. But yes, I would very much like to think that players would push themselves to be better if they needed to in order to get the reward, but I don't believe it would be the case. If it became more difficult, I believe the better players would simply stop doing the Invasions. The rewards just aren't good enough for them to 'waste their time on' if they have to rely on potentially weaker players.

 

And where would that leave the 'weaker' players? Unable to win. Only the mid range population would ever get anywhere: low level wouldn't be able to win, and high level wouldn't be bothered to try. Which I guess might be what you're aiming for, mid-level gaming.

 

Again though, I have no problem including new mission types, just don't make stuff like that above be the only type. 

 

--

 

All that said, I'd think that the outcome could affect people playing the Invasions, as currently, the Invasions really don't do anything. The Grineer rule the planet, or the Corpus do... so what? If you want to make the missions more involving and challenging, you first need to make sure people have a reason to care about them.

 

No matter how monotonous, people will repeat easy content for some rewards. If you want them to have to try though, you need to make them 'believe' that it's worth their time and effort.

 

The current Invasion system overall is not. (Excluding the 'very' rare Catalyst/Reactor BPs)

Thanks for explaining in detail. I see what you're pointing at. We would lose the 'numb-playing' (only requires your time; doesn't matter what the action is) if the current invasions are taken out. I agree.

But, do we need 'numb-playing' in Warframe? some would argue yes and some would say no. The devs might want it because it adds playtime/hours/missions logged in into their game but it gives a bad impression of the game regarding [quality].

 

Maybe add a new [true] Invasion mod and change the name of the current one? I see it as possible.

Edited March 17, 2014 by MaverickZero

[MaverickZero]

I guess a new question now: Would you rather add a new Invasion mode and keep the current one as it is?

 

You don't think the current problems with Invasion are significant? if so, then why?

[MaverickZero]

What hurts the most is the fact that you have to do it 5 times...

 

Doing it 5 times takes about 20-25 minutes without rushing. It's only a time sink. You get some Exp & minor loot but not significant enough (maybe do Kappa instead). It would take about the same time for my suggestion but rushing it would be extremely difficult (for average players).

[Inberun]

Made a suggestion way back

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/165801-corpus-vs-grineer-invasion-improvement-suggestion/