Lephantis Just Got A Bit Darker

[Brimir]

A.) It is ambiguous, we don't know the children were orokin they could be human, they could be void projections, they could be the first Sentients. Some of these are ridiculous but the point is we don't know the orokin were or weren't human we don't even have any hints one way or the other just speculation and assumption.

B.) again we don't know the Children grew into the Tenno (yet)

C.) we don't know there weren't generations we don't know how long the war with the Sentients went on could have been hundreds of years or a week. This also leaves a hole as to why I was in a squad with 4 embers if they are all the originals. This may be the result of the gameplay not being informed by lore but to say one way or the other is assumption

I have no problems with your theories, they may well be right. However you are stating assumption as fact, facts that no one (unless you're secretly on the dev team) actually have.

 

I've never stated that I speak in absolute facts. That'd be crazy. However, I am speaking about what I consider the most likely scenario based on the evidence available.

 

 

It is much more likely that the Orokin were humans based on the fact that the Grineer and Corpus are human since they are supposed to be the direct descendants of the Orokin. Not to mention that both their architecture and weaponry seems purposely designed to accommodate human usage. Plus, you have The Lotus who might be an Orokin survivor.

 

It is heavily implied that the child in Ember's Codex entry would become Ember. I mean... why the arse would that story even be in Ember's freakin' Codex entry in the first place if that wasn't the case? That'd be absurd, and to believe that would mean you assume that DE deliberately put misinformation in the game!

 

It is much more likely that the Tenno are just one generation based on the whole gryogenically freezing themselves spiel than themselves. Especially if you watch trailers and stuff for the game; they heavily individualize each Warframe, even given them a personality of sorts. Like the Hunt for Alad V trailer which had Rhino being an awesome monster.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Brimir

[Etsoree]

We all know his leg is in the dojo lab. Ever taken a close look at it?

 

the ribcage, spine, hip bone, thighs, calf/shin and feet(fused togeather)

 

Its a huminoid bone structure but... the size of it is inhuman. What could have gotten infested that was that size?

 

 

[NevanChambers]

I've never stated that I speak in absolute facts. That'd be crazy. However, I am speaking about what I consider the most likely scenario based on the evidence available.

 

 

It is much more likely that the Orokin were humans based on the fact that the Grineer and Corpus are human since they are supposed to be the direct descendants of the Orokin. Not to mention that both their architecture and weaponry seems purposely designed to accommodate human usage. Plus, you have The Lotus who might be an Orokin survivor.

 

It is heavily implied that the child in Ember's Codex entry would become Ember. I mean... why the arse would that story even be in Ember's freakin' Codex entry in the first place if that wasn't the case? That'd be absurd, and to believe that would mean you assume that DE deliberately put misinformation in the game!

 

It is much more likely that the Tenno are just one generation based on the whole gryogenically freezing themselves spiel than them waking up from cry-sleep and breeding like rabbits to produce multiple Tenno generations. In fact, that idea is absurd given that chronologically not much time has passed since your Tenno first woke up.

I am interested in where it says that the grineer and corpus are the direct descendents of the orokin. Not that I don't believe you but let's face it when a sentance starts with that its cause the person writing it doesn't believe you (this was supposed to be a joke sorry if it didnt work cause Internet). Their tech being designed in that way only implies they are humanoid not necessarily not alien.

Your point about misinformation is accurate and that's just the possibility I'm thinking of. You would have an airtight case if it weren't for the nasty habit writers of fiction to deliberately lace their work with misinformation to meet some end. What that end might be I can't say until after it has happened otherwise the obfuscation wouldn't have been effective.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by generation. I was thinking more technological, because there are the primes and then there are the not primes. I wasn't suggesting that the Tenno woke up and bred like rabbits but that many thousands of Tenno went into cryo sleep.

I really was interested to hear your thoughts on the 4 embers on 1 squad though. You didn't address that one, and it could relate to the generation thing.

[SilentMobius]

It is much more likely that the Orokin were humans based on the fact that the Grineer and Corpus are human since they are supposed to be the direct descendants of the Orokin. Not to mention that both their architecture and weaponry seems purposely designed to accommodate human usage. Plus, you have The Lotus who might be an Orokin survivor.

 

Neither the Gineer nor the Corpus, Nor the Tenno are said to be direct descendants of the Orokin. I challenge you to find any 1st party source that says so.

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other we have no information about the Nature of the Orokin save them being "Gold People"

 

It is heavily implied that the child in Ember's Codex entry would become Ember. I mean... why the arse would that story even be in Ember's freakin' Codex entry in the first place if that wasn't the case? That'd be absurd, and to believe that would mean you assume that DE deliberately put misinformation in the game!

 

Sure that child became originator of the Ember Warframe. But _we do not play that Tenno_ 

 

Let me ask you:

 

_If_ there is only one Tenno Per Warframe type

_If_ all Tenno are built into the Warframe as described in the Excalibur codex

_If_ we play an invisible stable of Tenno all built into their Warframes 

 

 

How is it possible that a Prime and a regular Ember Warframe exist?

How can we possibly use one then the other?

If you are correct then that-one-child was fitted into the Ember Prime Warframe and we (all of us) are playing the same child-from-the-codex Where did the Tenno version of the Armour come from and who is in the Other Ember?

 

No, They are suits, we have a single Tenno and there are _many_ Warframes of a single line. The lore in the Ember and Excalibur codex is telling us about the first Tenno who wore those Warframes, _not_ a LoL-esque Champion pool of single Tenno we all pull from, duplicating if necessary.

Edited March 19, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Brimir]

I really was interested to hear your thoughts on the 4 embers on 1 squad though. You didn't address that one, and it could relate to the generation thing.

 

I've not made up my mind about that yet; in my opinion the conflicting nature of the player characters is one of the biggest issue the game has got going for it, lore-wise. The reason for this is that there is enough evidence to make a strong case for two conflicting ideas;

 

One os that the Tenno are unique and there is only one of each Warframe, the other that you are playing as a unique Tenno who switches Warframes.

 

Neither is fully supported by the game, but there is evidence for both. Mainly gameplay-wise.

 

I am interested in where it says that the grineer and corpus are the direct descendents of the orokin.

 

I recall something about it in the now-forgotten Lore-section in game. Regardless, It just seems like the most likely scenario to me.

 

You have things like the Corpus almost religiously worshiping the Orokin (and the fact that they know the Tenno as the "Betrayers" implies a strong connection to the Orokin) and both Grineer/Corpus tech being compatible with Orokin tech. Remember, they don't have to have been something as high and might as the ruling class of the Orokin; they could just be surviving civilians.

 

The Tenno being of Orokin origins is an obvious one; they were created back in the Orokin era and then froze themselves down until the present day.

 

 

 

No, They are suits, we have a single Tenno and there are _many_ Warframes of a single line. The lore in the Ember and Excalibur codex is telling us about the first Tenno who wore those Warframes, _not_ a LoL-esque Champion pool of single Tenno we all pull from, duplicating if necessary.

 

As I previously stated, there are evidence for both ideas being true. Valkyr, for example, utterly destroys the idea of them being interchangeable suits because it was only partly the modifications done to her Warframe that changed her; the mental anguish she suffered at the hands of Alad V was what turned her into a feral berserker. This heavily implies that the Warframes are not the source of the powers, but rather amplify the powers of the user.

 

If another Tenno jumped into a Valkyr Warframe, she would not be able to manifest these new abilities.

 

Valkyr strongly implies that they are unique individuals. Until DE officially spills the beans on how it works, there is no way to be 100% certain how it actually is.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Brimir

[SilentMobius]

As I previously stated, there are evidence for both ideas being true. Valkyr, for example, utterly destroys the idea of them being interchangeable suits because it was only partly the modifications done to her Warframe that changed her; the mental anguish she suffered at the hands of Alad V was what turned her into a feral berserker. This heavily implies that the Warframes are not the source of the powers, but rather amplify the powers of the user.

 

If another Tenno jumped into a Valkyr Warframe, she would not be able to manifest these new abilities.

 

Valkyr strongly implies that they are unique individuals. Until DE officially spills the beans on how it works, there is no way to be 100% certain how it actually is.

 

I think the exact opposite, the Valkyr story supports my assertion much more

 

We are making a copy of the _original_ tortured-Tenno's damaged and tainted-with-rage Valkyr Warframe. As stated in the Flavour text for Valkyr and Valkyr's bonds:

 

 

 

Remnants of the bonds that restrained the original Valkyr during her time in 'the lab'. A reminder to never forget the torment.

 

 

Forged in the labs of the Zanuka project, the original Valkyr was subject to cruel experiments leaving her scarred, angry and frighteningly adept at killing

 

"The Original Valkyr" as in "not you"

 

Also, If the Warframes require a void-tainted Tenno to supply the powers to a Warframe where did Nova and Zephyr come from? Did the Tenno throw more kids into the Void to make new powers? Did they strap a ton of Oxium to "Zephyr" in the hope that did something?

 

No, As was said by DE, the Warframes Nova and Zephyr were designed by the Tenno council, based on new Tech and new materials just as presented because they are gear and are obviously plural, just like all the other Warframes used but the Tenno who won the Sentients War and eliminated the Orokin (Because you'd need a hell of a lot more than the 21 that came from that period)

 

Oh and there is this quote from the official Website

Warframe exo-armor uses unique combative technology to create the ultimate weaponry. The Warframes hold many mysterious powers and mastering one requires dedicated use

 

"Warframes hold...powers"

"mastering one requires dedicated use"

Edited March 19, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Brimir]

The Tenno never "eliminated" the Orokin at all.

 

They brutally murdered the Orokin Emperors.

 

Twenty one Tenno would've been more than enough for that, especially since the Emperors were basically "crowning" them as saviors during a ceremony at the time.

[SilentMobius]

The Tenno never "eliminated" the Orokin at all.

 

They brutally murdered the Orokin Emperors.

 

Twenty one Tenno would've been more than enough for that, especially since the Emperors were basically "crowning" them as saviors during a ceremony at the time.

 

So you're suggesting an Orokin civil war? Where they magically lost all their Tech, because that's what it would take. There were Orokin Towers all across the system, if only the Leaders were killed what happened to the (supposed) civilian Orokin who seemingly forgot how to operate _all_ their tech for a few hundred years becoming the Corpus and Grineer?

 

No, much too much of a stretch.

 

And you didn't answer my question:

 

One-tenno-per warframe powers-come-from-the-tenno:

How do Primes vs Tenno Warframes work? Who is in the other one?

[Brimir]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just re-telling you what the Stalker's Codex entry says: the Tenno turned on the Orokin Emperors during a grand ceremony held in their honour. Exactly what repercussions that had, we don't know - but - we do know that it eventually led to the fall of the Orokin Empire one way or another.

 

Deal with it.

 

EDIT: And I told you about my thoughts on the Tenno issue: there is evidence supporting both sides. I'm not making judgement or trying to argue that one side is more true than the other. Until DE clears it up, that is my official position on the matter.

 

Deal with that, too.

 

However, I would love to hear your explanation of how Rhino fits in any of the other male Warframes. Space-lube?

Edited March 19, 2014 by Brimir

[Sapphirya]

I just wanna throw out my thoughts on Tenno and their powers: I think that all void-scarred Tenno comes out of the void with equal raw power. Every "child" can light a candle (sufficient to burn someone), or create a gust of wind, or a few molecules of antimatter, or make a corpse gasp, or create a handful of snowflakes. And using a warframe allows a Tenno to focus on one aspect of that power, and amplify it beyond small-scale effects to the level of mass killing. A lit candle becomes World On Fire. A gust of wind becomes Tornado. a few molecules become M Prime.

 

As for the warframe proportions? I think it's the same issue with Lephantis. An oversight by the devs. We know that there were originally going to be male and female versions of each frame (see Nyx, which was formerly female Excalibur), but that didn't happen for whatever reason.

[Brimir]

As for the warframe proportions? I think it's the same issue with Lephantis. An oversight by the devs. We know that there were originally going to be male and female versions of each frame (see Nyx, which was formerly female Excalibur), but that didn't happen for whatever reason.

 

Definitely. However, that would only explain how a male Tenno could wear, for example, Ember. It does not explain how Rhino fits in any other Warframe. I think their original idea included a lot more customization of your Tenno like gender selection, but due to time constraints they dropped the idea and made female Excalibro into Nyx.

[SilentMobius]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just re-telling you what the Stalker's Codex entry says: the Tenno turned on the Orokin Emperors during a grand ceremony held in their honour. Exactly what repercussions that had, we don't know - but - we do know that it eventually led to the fall of the Orokin Empire one way or another.

 

It doesn't actually say who died. But it _suggests_ that everyone there affiliated with the Orokin did, which wouldn't be _just_ the Emperors as the Stalker points out.

 

Someone was playing the Drums and there were "Low guardians" present. I don't think the article suggests they survived save the Stalker. And the "Low Guardians" don't sound like Emperors to me.

 

 And I told you about my thoughts on the Tenno issue: there is evidence supporting both sides. I'm not making judgement or trying to argue that one side is more true than the other. Until DE clears it up, that is my official position on the matter.

 

So, no answer then. cool.

Just so we're clear What you _started_ with 

 

Warframes do not work that way. Possibly Warframes amplify their powers, and act as lifesupport for their diseased/mutated forms. Tenno are more than capable of using their powers without one, as demonstrated by child Ember melting half of someone's face just after having returned from the Void.

 

Had none of the "suggested" or "evidence on both sides" of your later posts. If you start off like that you'll get pushback. You are running with one interpretation of a story about one Tenno and making blanket statements that don't hold up.

 

Maybe we're both wrong, Maybe child-ember became a Tenno and the Orokin ended up eviscerating Her for material to make other Prime Ember Warframes. (Yeesh)

 

But the situation is far from confirmed unlike your initial comments on the matter. Now we're back to were we should be with the "suggests" and the "indicates" I'm happy to let the readers make up their own mind.

Edited March 19, 2014 by SilentMobius

[Brimir]

No, it does not suggest that.

 

It only suggests that the Tenno murdered the Orokin Emperors, and possibly the people gathered at the ceremony such as royal guards and specators. It does in no way suggest that the Tenno eliminated all the Orokin.

[SilentMobius]

DE never had an issue with proportion-matching even when designing proto-Warframes for Dark Sector There is no way that Nadia Sudek at 5ft5 could fit her arms down the 7ft tall Male Nemesis form with one forearm replaced by a blade

 

http://darksector.wikia.com/wiki/Nadia_Sudek

http://darksector.wikia.com/wiki/Nemesis

 

Even ignoring the lore-applicability, from a design perspective DE are quite happy with Warframe-like entities that modify the wearer to fit.

[Brimir]

Which essentially means nothing since Dark Sector is not lore for Warframe.

 

I ask again: Within the Warframe universe, how does it make sense that Rhino fits in the other male Warframes? Or, laughably, the female Warframes?

[SilentMobius]

No, it does not suggest that.

 

It only suggests that the Tenno murdered the Orokin Emperors, and possibly the people gathered at the ceremony such as royal guards and specators. It does in no way suggest that the Tenno eliminated all the Orokin.

 

I'm just pointing out that it's extremely unlikely that the Tenno killed just the Emperors, there were others there and the Stalker indicates only he survived.

 

Previous to the Stalker Codex we knew all the Orokin were gone, we wondered where or why? Then we get a codex entry that tells us that the Tenno cause a blood bath including "low guardians" and "Cold and Gold emperors" and he adds "When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever." Which sounds a _lot_ more final that just the heads of state.

 

We have the removal of all of the members of a species capable of using their tech and we have an account of a progrom that indicates "the Empire, fell silent forever" It would be a bit odd if they weren't talking about the same event.

[SilentMobius]

Which essentially means nothing since Dark Sector is not lore for Warframe.

 

It means that DE don't shy away from Warframe-like designs that _require_ modification of the wearer.

 

I ask again: Within the Warframe universe, how does it make sense that Rhino fits in the other male Warframes? Or, laughably, the female Warframes?

 

The Warframes use Technocyte material that modifies the wearer. (As illustrated by the design, the components for build and the Lephantis taunts)

We've seen Technocyte material make physical changes to organics in all instances of the infestation..

 

I mean you don't debate that technocyte material goes into the Warframes right?

[Brimir]

Well, judging by the current Orokin units in the game, it seems that the Orokin had a penchant for mind control. It could be that by striking down the "gold and cold" Emperors, the Tenno severed some sort of psychic link these Emperors used to "run" the Orokin Empire and placate/rule the people.

 

Not necessarily an evil act by the Emperors, mind you, but something they had to use in order to keep the Empire up and running. They could've ruled the people like this and still been benevolent or at least neutral in nature.

 

 

 

The Warframes use Technocyte material that modifies the wearer. (As illustrated by the design, the components for build and the Lephantis taunts)

We've seen Technocyte material make physical changes to organics in all instances of the infestation..

 

I mean you don't debate that technocyte material goes into the Warframes right?

 

I've yet to see any kind of shapeshifting abilities inherent to the Technocyte virus. It twists and contorts the victim upon infection, true, but that is not something the victim can control - it is a thing the virus does to the host.

 

Also, I don't really see why/how the Tenno would be having sexual characteristics if they were essentially asexual piles of morphing goo that switches constantly between male and female.

 

The way I think it went down during development is this:

 

At an early stage, DE decided that you were playing a single Tenno that could switch Warframes. You could select a gender for your profile and your Warframe would reflect this. This is why Nyx looks like Excalibro with boobs - she was supposed to be the female version.

 

At one point, however, DE decided against this and went on with designing unique Tenno/Warframes from there onwards. This allowed them more creative freedom with the Warframe designs  - since they are not worn by the same person, they could go crazy with them and design radically different ones like Rhino and Nekros. Prior to this, all Warframes had essentially the same body shape as if they were supposed to be worn by the same person. You still see it with female Warframes (I want a She-Hulk Warframe!).

 

That is why you have conflicting points of view included in the lore and the game.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Brimir

[Sapphirya]

Which essentially means nothing since Dark Sector is not lore for Warframe.

 

I ask again: Within the Warframe universe, how does it make sense that Rhino fits in the other male Warframes? Or, laughably, the female Warframes?

Well, one could take a look at a symbiotic suit from another game universe, the Crysis one. At the very end, when the suit's nanites were fully freed from the nanosuit's software blocks, they were able to change their form and rebuild the dead protagonist.

 

 

About Crysis' protagonist, Phophet: In Crysis 2, he caught a fatal disease in his symbiotic nanosuit while attempting to complete a mission, and while he was dying, gave his suit to a badly wounded Marine, Alcatraz, so he could finish the fight. Alcatraz later died, but Prophet's consciousness, stored in the nanosuit's hardware, survived, basically making Prophet into an artificial suit wrapped around someone else's corpse. Grim stuff. But the suit's nanites fixed him up. You might have guessed, the Crysis universe wasn't really well-written. But basically the point I'm making is that warframe suits 'could' go down to that level. We don't know, because again, DE hasn't really given us anything on them. But they could shapeshift the wearer depending on which frame they used.

[LukeAura]

Also, If the Warframes require a void-tainted Tenno to supply the powers to a Warframe where did Nova and Zephyr come from? Did the Tenno throw more kids into the Void to make new powers? Did they strap a ton of Oxium to "Zephyr" in the hope that did something?

 

 

"Warframes hold...powers"

"mastering one requires dedicated use"

I'm fairly sure that the void-mutations give the actual energy to manifest the power, the technocyte infestation defines the range of power, and the Warframe itself focuses it in to a specific form based on the infestation. 

The Technocyte also appears to manipulate its host through their dna, which is why there are so many more corpus variety infested compared to grineer. 

If each Tenno is given a range of powers based on genetics this would explain why certain frames with physical similarities to each other have similar abilities, and why every Tenno within the range of Magnetic powers can fit in to a Mag. They all share a similar DNA structure, and thus have similar characteristics and proportions.

Oberon seems to have a build and style somewhere between Frost and Nekros. He also has AoE, and healing, A component of each frame he resembles. 

Ember and Saryn, Mag and Nova. Ember and Saryn focus on basic elementals and DoT damage, are fairly tall and have more femininely defined bodies. 

Mag and Nova are shorter, with less defined bodies, but they also have great destructive power that focuses on more advanced elementals and chain damage effects,

I'd say it's entirely possible that if Tenno are all individuals that when they built Nova, they were designing her to refocus the powers of Tenno that wielded Mag. 

Warframes are more like a prism, they take the ambiguous light shone through them of the infestation and break it down into its individual components.

[NevanChambers]

Which essentially means nothing since Dark Sector is not lore for Warframe.

 

I ask again: Within the Warframe universe, how does it make sense that Rhino fits in the other male Warframes? Or, laughably, the female Warframes?

I don't know if you are aware but the last livestream DESteve said we would be getting more references to darksector starting the beginning of next month. I find this an odd thing for the devs to do if its not cannon for warframe.

[Brimir]

I don't know if you are aware but the last livestream DESteve said we would be getting more references to darksector starting the beginning of next month. I find this an odd thing for the devs to do if its not cannon for warframe.

 

If it happens, it happens. Until it does though, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

[NevanChambers]

If it happens, it happens. Until it does though, I'll take it with a grain of salt.

Lol it's like I found my opposite. I have never doubted their connection but in truth he devs seem to waffle on that more than an underdog carpetbagger in a tough district. You have been polite to everyone who wasn't rude to you though so it makes the conversation reasonable and fun.

Edited March 19, 2014 by NevanChambers

[Brimir]

Lol it's like I found my opposite. I have never doubted their connection but in truth he devs seem to waffle on that more than an underdog carpetbagger in a tough district. You have been polite to everyone who wasn't rude to you though so it makes the conversation reasonable and fun.

 

Exactly :)

 

Which is why everything they say regarding lore I don't take too seriously. Actions speak louder than words, after all. I don't really see how Dark Sector lore would fit within Warframe (unless the entire Dark Sector game somehow takes place under the Orokin Era*) but as I said, if they can figure out how to connect it, I won't complain.

 

 

*in which case...

Edited March 19, 2014 by Brimir

[NevanChambers]

Exactly :)

 

Which is why everything they say regarding lore I don't take too seriously. Actions speak louder than words, after all. I don't really see how Dark Sector lore would fit within Warframe (unless the entire Dark Sector game somehow takes place under the Orokin Era) but as I said, if they can figure out how to connect it, I won't complain.

That's a pretty good policy.

Keep in mind I don't remember where any of this came from but I've used it as the basis for the junk I made up so I assume I read it somewhere. Doesn't discount that I could have made it up and forgotten I did.

After the events of the DS the technocyte virus spreads across the earth

Last few humans escape and abandon the earth

1000 or so years pass and the orokin show up, form, whatever.

War with Sentients

Tenno rebellion

Tenno freeze

Warframe.

This really rough outline has stuck in my head better than the stuff I usually make up, but that may mean nothing other than it seems plausible. I wish I would have read the old lore stuff before it went away but the fact it went away could be indication of the direction DE wants to take.