Brimir Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) "Some have walked these desolate worlds while you slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day." This one is pretty obvious to everyone: while the Tenno "slept" frozen in their pods, the Stalker apparently didn't. It makes you question his age, doesn't it? Has Orokin medical technology advanced to the point where age was no longer of consequence? "The Tenno appeared at the Terminus, gleaming and victorious. Our cold and gold Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk. Then came the sound. Across all our worlds, all at once, the ceremonial Naga drums. A royal salute to the honored Tenno. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over." This piece sets the scene for us: the Tenno have returned from the eve of the final battle with the Sentients and a grand ceremony is taking place. "Across all our worlds, all at once" sounds to me like it was "televised" everywhere within the Orokin Empire. Contrary to popular belief, it seems clear to me that "our cold and gold Emperors" does not refer to the Tenno but the actual leaders in Orokin society. "I watched from a distance, with the rest of the low Guardians. With each beat terror began to crush my throat. The Tenno were not stoic and silent, They were waiting. They were poised. I tried to call out but only a strangled whisper escaped. When the ninth beat rang a torrent of blood filled the stadium, loosed by Tenno blades. The drums, the Empire, fell silent forever." Here we get the Stalker's first hand experience of the event. I think he might've actually been part of the elite guards acting as protectors of the Orokin Emperors: notice how only the G in Guardians is capitalized and the L in low is not. This leads me to believe that the correct term is not "Low Guardians" but rather just "Guardians". He uses the term "low" (perhaps spitefully so) to confer his lesser status in comparison to "mighty saviors" returning from battle, the Tenno. The second part is probably the most important piece of information - The Tenno killed the Orokin Emperors as they were honouring their returning saviors in the middle of the ceremony! That is why we are the Great Betrayers! Without their Emperors, the Orokin empire fell into decline. "Now I hunt, dividing your numbers. Watching from that dark place, cataloging your sins, I am the ghost of retribution. You may forget but you are not innocent." Last part is also pretty self-evident: after his failure at protecting the Emperors, the Stalker dedicated his life to hunting down the Tenno and make them pay. TL;DR - The Tenno killed the Orokin Emperors during a ceremony celebrating their victory over the Sentients while the Stalker (and his fellow Guardians') watched on in horror and he swore a vendetta against us for it. Edited March 18, 2014 by Brimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bejuizb Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 slowpoke.jpg goes here. Sorry for being mean. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimir Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 I'm pretty sure this is the first time I posted my own personal interpretation of it. How am I a slowpoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firetempest Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 TL;DR - The Tenno killed the Orokin Emperors during a ceremony celebrating their victory over the Sentients while the Stalker (and his fellow Guardians') watched on in horror and he swore a vendetta against us for it. This is new and amazing. The deductive reasoning is flawless. Batman would be proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlayn Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 "Some have walked these desolate worlds while you slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day." This one is pretty obvious to everyone: while the Tenno "slept" frozen in their pods, the Stalker apparently didn't. It makes you question his age, doesn't it? Has Orokin medical technology advanced to the point where age was no longer of consequence? It also causes one to question his sanity if he has been alive, and functioning this entire time. I know I would go insane watching the universe go by for such a long time. I don't care if he was waiting for his chance of vengeance that would drive anyone insane. It also makes you ask... Why? Its like the why doesn't Dr. Evil just kill Austin as a baby? So why doesn't Stalker just murder you in the cryopod? but good thoughts overall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimir Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) One explanation is that he wouldn't want you to die "peacefully" in your sleep. He wants to defeat you in combat in order to make his revenge complete. It is quite a another thing to look someone in the eyes, as they are trembling in defeat, when you stab/shoot them to death and simply cut someone's throat as they sleep. Or something. Edited March 18, 2014 by Brimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)NicoTheSneakyGuy Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 We're Mercenaries, Maintaing "Balance" So that we can still profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 It makes you question his age, doesn't it? Has Orokin medical technology advanced to the point where age was no longer of consequence? You're called a slow-poke because people have come to this exact conclusion a while ago. It isn't popular belief that the cold and gold Emperors are the Tenno. It's very clear, and undisputed, that the cold and gold Emperors are the Orokin. IMO, it's clear that the Stalker and the other low guardians aren't Tenno. It's clear that the Tenno betrayed the Orokin. It's clear that the Orokin are flesh and blood, given that their blood fills the stadium. It's clear that the Stalker is old, as are all the Tenno. About the agelessness, the infested like Phorid and Lephantis say that they are the key to immortality, or something of that nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implodingbanana Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) dang i never saw the stalker codex entry until now this really opens up a lot in my mind now the question is why did we do it and why is the stalker avenging the bosses of the grineer and corpus (and infested)? Heres what i think about that: Stalker has suffered mental trauma and now sees these military and political leaders as the orokin emperors nd now that we the tenno have reawakened he sees the tragedy that occurred that day happening all over again (mental trauma or not this seems logical) as for why the tenno began attacking the orokin i have no idea but i suspect The Lotus had something to do with it O_o. what do you guys think? Edit: oh and i have no idea why he avenges infested bosses although it might be DE's programming that causes this because stalker is set to hunt you down after you kill a boss right? Edited March 18, 2014 by thecool1232 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimir Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) You're called a slow-poke because people have come to this exact conclusion a while ago. It isn't popular belief that the cold and gold Emperors are the Tenno. It's very clear, and undisputed, that the cold and gold Emperors are the Orokin. Funny, because I still see the Tenno being called "cold and gold". Constantly. Just because you and I have come to the same conclusion doesn't mean everyone has. IMO, it's clear that the Stalker and the other low guardians aren't Tenno. It's clear that the Tenno betrayed the Orokin. It's clear that the Orokin are flesh and blood, given that their blood fills the stadium. Guardians. The low is not part of the name... as for why the tenno began attacking the orokin i have no idea but i suspect The Lotus had something to do with it O_o. what do you guys think? I suspect that the Sentients, with their dying breath, revealed something to the Tenno about the Orokin that ticked them off. According to the Codex entry, they had quite literally just returned from defeating the Sentients and had already made up their minds about turning on the Orokin. Personally, I'd like to think Tenno were "brainwashed" and all memories regarding the horrible experiments they suffered as children were wiped from their minds. The Sentients restored these memories to the Tenno, who returned and were (rightfully so!) quite angry at their leaders for putting them through it. Edited March 18, 2014 by Brimir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Funny, because I still see the Tenno being called "cold and gold". Constantly. Just because you and I have come to the same conclusion doesn't mean everyone has. Guardians. The low is not part of the name... I suspect that the Sentients, with their dying breath, revealed something to the Tenno about the Orokin that ticked them off. According to the Codex entry, they had quite literally just returned from defeating the Sentients and had already made up their minds about turning on the Orokin. Personally, I'd like to think Tenno were "brainwashed" and all memories regarding the horrible experiments they suffered as children were wiped from their minds. The Sentients restored these memories to the Tenno, who returned and were (rightfully so!) quite angry at their leaders for putting them through it. Uh, the fact that low isn't part of the "name" indicates that they all, Tenno and low Guardians, are precisely Guardians. Suggests that Tenno are high Guardians. So far, we know that there are Tenno, low Guardians, and Temple Guards (from first Prime Access description of the Misa Syandana Prime). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillsAndTheSea Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 the emphasis on "low" guardian is quite important, as it probably means he was indoctrinated (or even mind controlled) by the orokin to view them as gods and everything they do is justified. its hinted that the orokin were extremely repressive, and the stalker was not of high enough status to be above brainwashing nor have access to information regarding the numerous shady experiments and crimes the orokin were responsible for. watching his "gods" being slaughtered in front of him for what appeared to be no good reason (he would deny it even if it was) probably traumazited the poor stalker. he does not want to kill the sleeping tenno because he wants them to actually suffer and acknowledge their crimes the tenno almost certainly attacked the orokin for infecting them with the technocyte virus and tossing them into the void i would imagine being infected with a virus that causes pain, violent psychopathy, and deformation, while being abandoned in an unknown environment, probably would be enough to destroy the mental state of any living being. and in my opinion justifies the brutal murder the tenno commited on their enslavers. the lotus was more than likely the one who directed the already violent tenno's anger towards the orokin, simply saying "are you angry? do you remember that awful time you had that ruined your life? it was because of them, and you have the power to kill them all, then you will be able to rest" the tenno's murder of the orokin was not really a crime, it was simply retribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CryoClaw Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) TL; DR: we have a #*($%%@ up history... The big question though... Why would we do that? Maybe we worked for the sentients like undercover agents and pretended to be with the orokin the whole time Plus something which is NOT on the wiki... When you fight Alad v he says "you have loyalty issues, tenno" Edited March 19, 2014 by CryoClaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 "Some have walked these desolate worlds while you slept. Some like me. I remember what you did. I remember the day." -snip- Some like me. Is there more than one Stalker? Are they all "Stalker"? Or are we going to be visited by "Avenger" "Punisher" or something like that? Brimir, I like your post, it's very well thought out. I've had the same concept as well, I'm just not articulate enough to present the information in a similar way you did. (See?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillsAndTheSea Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 TL; DR: we have a #*($%%@ up history... The big question though... Why would we do that? Maybe we worked for the sentients like undercover agents and pretended to be with the orokin the whole time Plus something which is NOT on the wiki... When you fight Alad v he says "you have loyalty issues, tenno" there is a TON of brainwashing and mind break/control in warframe, with the orokin being complete masters of subjugation. a massive amount of people in the universe of warframe were enslaved mentally by the orokin, both figuratively through indoctrination and literally through the neural sentries. the reverence of the orokin was a byproduct of submission. in reality, the orokin were probably terrible people as evident in their extreme totalitarianism and overall lack of ethics. orokin society is a more extreme parallel of governments such as the third reich and the soviet union, and while the orokin were successful and industrious, it came at the cost of ethics and free will people call the tenno "betrayers" because they remain loyal or are still controlled by the orokin, and do not care about the reasons why they murdered the orokin, nor or the moral aspects of it. to them, anything the orokin says is law and justified, and anything done against them is "betrayal". even after their death, their ideals and brainwashing persists, stalker/corpus/grineer have not been "freed" like the tenno have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch111 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Good reasoning. As for the why of the betrayal, I offer my own thoughts. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/163529-lotus-codex-updated-14-03-02-third-entry/?hl=arch111#entry1930652 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimir Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Some like me. Is there more than one Stalker? Are they all "Stalker"? Or are we going to be visited by "Avenger" "Punisher" or something like that? Could be that quite a few of the Guardians swore revenge on the Tenno. Or, by "some" he could simply be hinting at that life continued for the rest of the Sol system after they froze themselves. While the Tenno slept, stuff like the Grineer/Corpus rise to power happened after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASH_PRIME Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 A pity for such a century's old badass he is such a WIMPI remember a few months ago when the Stalker arriving actually put your heart rate up..you knew you were in for a battleNow..one burst and he drops!Bring back the badass Stalker!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 A pity for such a century's old badass he is such a WIMP I remember a few months ago when the Stalker arriving actually put your heart rate up..you knew you were in for a battle Now..one burst and he drops! Bring back the badass Stalker!!!! Staying alive for a few hundred years really takes it out of you. And no buffing until I get Despair. It's the last bit and I neeeeeeed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feallike Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) I like the lore of the Tenno murdering the Orokin out of revenge for torturing them to make them what they are. (somewhat like how Valkyr was made out of Torture inflicted by the Corpus) It makes you think of the Tenno as more of warriors with the minds of children who only know fighting and nothing more. We could see the Tenno as Sentients that where captured and then expermented and tortured until they fought and killed there own people. Then when somehow the mind control the Orokin had failed the Tenno seeked revenge, which was.... well... Massacreing all the Orokin, which for some reason forced them into cryosleep.... Lotus may be the last Orokin or sentient, probably sentient, left after the great war. Edited March 19, 2014 by Feallike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Good reasoning. As for the why of the betrayal, I offer my own thoughts. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/163529-lotus-codex-updated-14-03-02-third-entry/?hl=arch111#entry1930652 Well, considering the "leak", I'd say the Orokin were tyrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 the emphasis on "low" guardian is quite important, as it probably means he was indoctrinated (or even mind controlled) by the orokin to view them as gods and everything they do is justified. its hinted that the orokin were extremely repressive, and the stalker was not of high enough status to be above brainwashing nor have access to information regarding the numerous shady experiments and crimes the orokin were responsible for. watching his "gods" being slaughtered in front of him for what appeared to be no good reason (he would deny it even if it was) probably traumazited the poor stalker. he does not want to kill the sleeping tenno because he wants them to actually suffer and acknowledge their crimes the tenno almost certainly attacked the orokin for infecting them with the technocyte virus and tossing them into the void i would imagine being infected with a virus that causes pain, violent psychopathy, and deformation, while being abandoned in an unknown environment, probably would be enough to destroy the mental state of any living being. and in my opinion justifies the brutal murder the tenno commited on their enslavers. the lotus was more than likely the one who directed the already violent tenno's anger towards the orokin, simply saying "are you angry? do you remember that awful time you had that ruined your life? it was because of them, and you have the power to kill them all, then you will be able to rest" the tenno's murder of the orokin was not really a crime, it was simply retribution. The murder of the Orokin was about balance. I think the Lotus did tell them to overthrow the Orokin, the tyrants. 'Low' emphasizes that there were different levels, or castes, of guardians. Tenno were probably high guardians/warriors. Stalker and others were low guardians. Then there were the Temple Guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn_and_Jake01 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Good job/interpretation. That shed a lot of lore from just that codex entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimir Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 Lotus may be the last Orokin or sentient, probably sentient, left after the great war. Personally, I believe that Lotus was the designated Orokin "Tenno Handler". You know, their dispatch of sorts. Kind of like the role she takes now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arch111 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Like Antoine said, tyrants ruling over many worlds. The stalker seem more a teacher then the executioner to me. If he could, I suspect he would rectuit the tenno, or/and replace Lotus as Commander. They can not both be right, and at least to me it is hinted they know each other some how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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