Thread In Defense Of Broken Lights.

[2ndBreath]

To begin, I would like to wish DE not to be led by those who are afraid of difficulties and instead at least try to overcome them, immediately run to the forum and demand (!) (Sometimes quite blatantly) remove them. These people do not care about the game. RushRushRush FarmFarmFarm - that's all they need. Teamwork, attention to the environment, tank mods - eh, couldn't care less, it doesn't help farming.

 

It's great when the whole environment says that you, Tenno, are not welcome here. It's great that you have to be prepared for it. Even die if you are not. Randomness adds interest and variety.

 

Perhaps, something should be fixed, but not removed completely. And future changes, which we have known recently, is more than enough.

I just hope that DE will keep them and keep them as much dangerous as possible. Maybe do something else like that in the future.

 

Thank you for your attention.

[Aka_Miso]

I like to think about people that have epilepsy and things like it and thats why I want it gone

[LordMidnightX]

it's not that they are to hard it just feels like a cheapshot

[Guest]

Attacking other players will definitely not help you or your point of view. Also, let me quote Rebecca for you.

 

Just an update, Dev's next iteration of this mechanic will include:

 

1) Only placing the 'traps' at eye or floor level.

2) FX that indicate they are clearly active.

3) Will do DOT vs (instead of) big pulse/surge of damage.

4) Can be exploded from a distance to damage nearby enemies (like Explosive Barrels).

5) Will have a chance to drop a resource.

 

We can definitely see the hate still for these by some, so more attempts to tweak are being made.

 

 

I say we wait until these changes are implemented to further discuss this issue.

[Axeroix]

I like to think about people that have epilepsy

Im sorry taking people out of context is fun

[V45H]

I like to think about people that have epilepsy and things like it and thats why I want it gone

there are a lot of flashy effects in warframe that flash the screen and stuff if this is removed then alot of things would be.

at least with this reasoning

Edited March 19, 2014 by V45H

[Revenant102]

If you walked into work each day and had to dread being sucker punched by a random patron or coworker at least once how long would you keep working that job?

That's the issue with the lights. They're an unavoidable cheap shot that punishes low level frames, thin skinned frames, and frames that aren't optimized for survivability at the expense of offense or agility.

If we're intended to disregard fast movement entirely in order to cautiously move through the environment then the entire park our system and sprint function are pointless and should be dropped.

[Nkomo-Sama]

 

To begin, I would like to wish DE not to be led by those who are afraid of difficulties and instead at least try to overcome them, immediately run to the forum and demand (!) (Sometimes quite blatantly) remove them. These people do not care about the game. RushRushRush FarmFarmFarm - that's all they need. Teamwork, attention to the environment, tank mods - eh, couldn't care less, it doesn't help farming.

 

It's great when the whole environment says that you, Tenno, are not welcome here. It's great that you have to be prepared for it. Even die if you are not. Randomness adds interest and variety.

 

Perhaps, something should be fixed, but not removed completely. And future changes, which we have known recently, is more than enough.

I just hope that DE will keep them and keep them as much dangerous as possible. Maybe do something else like that in the future.

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

I am in such adamant support of pro traps hazard threads that I created one about a week ago https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/192654-please-do-not-nerf-the-new-hazards/#entry2239325 and have been battling amongst the nerfers in other threads all over the forums... I wish I had some back up I felt like a true Tenno... it was like 4 vs 1000.

[2ndBreath]

Attacking other players will definitely not help you or your point of view. Also, let me quote Rebecca for you.

 

 

 

I say we wait until these changes are implemented to further discuss this issue.

I was not attacking anyone. I was supporting a game feature. In general. And I believe developers know what needs to be done in particular. So i was not refering anything specific. Although, I'm aware about future fixes. Thank you.

[Revenant102]

I don't think anyone is against traps; we're against unavoidable damage. Fire can be avoided, orokin lasers can be jumped over, Corpus door barriers can be slid through, but the current spawn mechanics put these very powerful hazards all over the place, and often places then such that they are unavoidable due to placement on blind sides of doors or amongst ceiling clutter. If you don't believe the lights are an issue because you always move slowly and religiously use lightning rod that's fine. But not every frame or situation, or mod load out allows for the players to play minesweeper through the missions.

[2ndBreath]

I like to think about people that have epilepsy and things like it and thats why I want it gone

Do you have epilepsy? I'm asking beacause I'm not. I don't know how they feel. Do you?

 

If you walked into work each day and had to dread being sucker punched by a random patron or coworker at least once how long would you keep working that job?

Do you realize it's a game?

[Guest]

I was not attacking anyone. I was supporting a game feature. In general. And I believe developers know what needs to be done in particular. So i was not refering anything specific. Although, I'm aware about future fixes. Thank you.

 

Just for the record, I'm not against broken lights themselves, and not against one-hit KOs as long as it can be reasonably avoided. However, getting killed by lights at the very spawn moment is a problem. Being hit for half your shields by a trap you could never have seen because it was on the other side of a solid object is a problem.

Both of these can be easily fixed by placing lights in not obvious nor ridiculous places, and make them visible for those that are actually looking out for them. Sure, being able to blow them up ala barrels to hit enemies is a boon, but just making them more visible and reasonably placed would be enough.

I also see the devs don't want to get rid of the lights and are doing everything in their power to fix them before getting to that point. I think that's good. If the new additions solve the problems, I'll stand in their defense.

[Revenant102]

2nd breath, I'm trying to provide a comparison for you. If you dislike that one I'll try this: imagine you're playing Call of Duty and you get killed immediately by a spawn-camper. Then you respawn to find that you're in the crosshairs of another. Again and again ad infinitum. How long do you keep eating headshots before you stop playing?

[Katakuna]

Just so: it's unavoidable damage, and unavoidable damage is not fun and hampers builds and playstyles..  You cannot avoid it, you have to take it, or slow down and let someone else run in front of you so they take it.  Not a problem for heavy frames or well modded frames, but newbies and thin frames, not so much.

 

Regardless of how you feel about it, people dying in one hit due to unavoidable damage is not okay, and never was or will be okay.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Katakuna

[2ndBreath]

Just for the record, I'm not against broken lights themselves, and not against one-hit KOs as long as it can be reasonably avoided. 

But I am. I really don't like the idea that any threat in the game can be avoided. There must be something that you can not control. The game should make you to play by its own rules, not by yours. I don't like the idea that the game is like a museum or shooting range.

 

2nd breath, I'm trying to provide a comparison for you. If you dislike that one I'll try this: imagine you're playing Call of Duty and you get killed immediately by a spawn-camper. Then you respawn to find that you're in the crosshairs of another. Again and again ad infinitum. How long do you keep eating headshots before you stop playing?

Are we gonna talk about this game or anything not related to it? Let's do first.

Edited March 19, 2014 by 2ndBreath

[Revenant102]

I've tried to explain the problem using 2 relatable examples that don't rely on either inventing new mechanics for this game or referring back to the problem itself as it's comparison. So far you've shown that you are not amenable to discussing this issue and are quite set in your opinion despite the efforts of numerous individuals to explain the problem. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain why an unavoidable 1 hit kill is a problem. It isn't worth either of our time to bicker about something even the devs have admitted is an issue.

[Guest]

But I am. I really don't like the idea that any threat in the game can be avoided. There must be something that you can not control. The game should make you to play by its own rules, not by yours. I don't like the idea that the game is like a museum or shooting range.

 

Are we gonna talk about this game or anything not related to it? Let's do first.

 

Somehow I don't really think you realize what you're saying, or simply didn't think it through... do you really want to play a game where your success or failure is dictated by the roll of a digital dice, as opposed to skill, attention and reflexes?

It becomes a game of "let's see if I can get through this mission now that I have over 1200 shields and a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin" or "let's see if I get lucky and don't get insta-gibbed at spawn this time".

 

Also, there's a huge distance between getting sucker-punch insta-killed, and the game being a shooting range.

[2ndBreath]

Somehow I don't really think you realize what you're saying, or simply didn't think it through... do you really want to play a game where your success or failure is dictated by the roll of a digital dice, as opposed to skill, attention and reflexes?

It becomes a game of "let's see if I can get through this mission now that I have over 1200 shields and a Rhino with maxed Iron Skin" or "let's see if I get lucky and don't get insta-gibbed at spawn this time".

 

Also, there's a huge distance between getting sucker-punch insta-killed, and the game being a shooting range.

The game already dictates your success by the roll of a digital dice. Nothing wrong with it. Do you want to play a game where you can just do math properly and destroy everything around, and nothing is able to stop you?

I'm interested in more complex matters like teamwork, team composition, gear combination and not digits of damage/tank.

[Guest]

The game already dictates your success by the roll of a digital dice. Nothing wrong with it. Do you want to play a game where you can just do math properly and destroy everything around, and nothing is able to stop you?

I'm interested in more complex matters like teamwork, team composition, gear combination and not digits of damage/tank.

 

Seriously, you're the king of logical fallacy, and my patience is running short. I tried being reasonable, but you keep using every dirty trick in the book like abusing generalizations, strawmen, and derailing, and I warn you it's not going to work.

 

1. The damage you deal and take is not dictated by RNG, but by very certain formulas according to the mods you use and the level of the enemies you face. The presence of an instant, sure-hit, unavoidable and overpowering damage source is not balanced, is not challenging, it is only cheap.

 

2. Success being dictated exclusively by the roll of a digital dice is in fact wrong in any game that's not a lottery, and this is something a lot of people, even game developers, agree on: don't punish players for things that are out of their control. Using RNG to simulate a varying distribution of rewards is one thing, using it to suddenly and incontestably decide if a player drops dead or not is a completely different thing.

 

 

3. There is, again, a huge distance between getting sucker-punch insta-killed, and being invincible, and I said this in my previous post already. Implying we only have the two extremes to choose between, is a fallacy.

 

4. The game stops being linear math when you're able to choose among the whole range between charging into battle guns blazing, and dodging behind cover to let your shields replenish. No matter how many mods you put on, if you don't play with skill you will die. And if putting on a lot of mods made you unkillable, that would still be a completely different problem having nothing to do with the broken lights.

 

5. Teamwork, team composition, gear combination have nothing to do with the broken lights being cheap because you often can't see them until they zap you.

 

My exposition is over and I've had enough of this. The developers have more than enough feedback and have made the seemingly right choices already. This argument is sterile.