De, It's Time We Talk About The Sources Of Annoyance And Anger In This Game. Rng, Pubs

[KriLL3]

WF is a good game overall, but there are several aspects of it designed and not that case it to be very frustrating to play at times.

 

Random rewards: The problem with random rewards is that you loose any sense of progression and getting something you don't need/want doesn't feel like next time's the time you'll get lucky, you just get angry about wasting x amount of your life on something that's worthless or near to it.

 

If we instead had to gather a certain number of garanteed drops to make void items we've be fine being 1/10 of the way there, because we know we're making progress, it's a psycological thing, knowing you're 1/10 of the way there is a much better feeling than knowing you have 1/10 chance of getting something on a random basis.

 

What's worse than random rewards? Layered random rewards, I know I get Rhino Prime Chassis in T3 Survival, I know I get T3 survival keys best as far as I know from Teir3 normal survival after 15mins I have 10% chance getting it, and the odds on the chassis I don't know but I've done a few and I haven't seen it (annecdoatal but still) this means to have good chance of getting my chassis I need to do 15mins * 10 = 150mins = 2.5 hours of surivial per shot at the void mission, which again has a less than 20% chance I'd guess? Meaning 2.5* 5 = 12.5 hours of survival, check the math, it checks out, yes you can obviously get it sooner than that, that's the nature of RNG, but you can also get it later, much later than that.

 

We've been suggesting a token system for months now, each time you add prime parts to void and dilute drop tables even further the problem gets more and more obvious, it's time for a proper fix, no more band-aids. Respect our time, we don't want to put down 40h+ grinding for something and not feeling any progression from those 1 Orokin Cell and 2k credit rewards, it's a really bad feeling surviving by the skin of your teeth at 45min+ T3 survival to get 2k credits, the game should be a positive experience, not a series of crushing disapointments.

 

The addition of prime trading isn't a solution to this issue, it's a band-aid, and the hawker-esc way of trading by shouting in a channel is ridicously annoying, we need a more action house like trading system where you can put up stuff for trade, see what others price the same thing for etc, even if it's just inter-clan.

 

The next big problem is the way pubs work, in theory a group of players even if total strangers should be able to help each other and have a mutually beneficial play session, sadly several design decisions in WF makes pubs pretty aggrevating, especially on Mobile Defense, all too common that someone gets greedy for that XP and follows the enemies back to where they spawn, denying the rest of the group shared XP, and removing players from the objective, only solution people have come up with is to join the hallway hero and effectively leave the objective unguarded, unless some poor soul can be duped into standing there like an idiot getting near no XP and kill the enemies that don't spawn where the rest are camping or manage to slip past them.

 

I don't know what the solution is but there needs to be one, it's very easy for a lone player to make your MD run a waste of time.

 

The game also needs proper matchmaking for void missions, it's ridicious shouting out that you need people for a void mission in chat, give us a way to pub voids.

 

WF is a good game, but it has some pretty bad roadblocks to making it enjoyable to play at times, and the game should be fun to play, not punish you in cruel and unusual ways at random.

 

After spending 5h+ grinding for new prime stuff and the keys to get new prime stuff I got nothing what so ever of value, I feel a sensation in my core similar to indigestion at the tought of it, this is why RNG is evil, it doesn't reward persistance, skill or resolve, it rewards luck, I don't gamble, and I'd prefer if games I play don't force me to.

Edited March 20, 2014 by KriLL3

[Cemges]

Agreed.

[BrotherIcarus]

I agree with the RNG things you mention.

 

 

But about the pubs that is just the way pubs are in every game and the only way to fix it is to literally take all the freedom from the players so they have to do what the game tells them to.

 

Also taking this into consideration you want pubs in void missions?

[Kipp-vas-Xerinae]

Completely agree, especially about rng.

 

But i think nothing is gonna to change anytime soon. (which is sad). Why i say that? After reading many great feedback topics, peoples concerns etc without a single DE response, especially from Scott or Steve i can only say that it seems like they don't give a dan...

[Monolake]

I think the solution to Mobile defence lies in better map  design and better spawn logic, where enemies dont walk from afar and come from several directions simultaneously.  

 

 

 

I agree with the RNG things you mention.

 

 

But about the pubs that is just the way pubs are in every game and the only way to fix it is to literally take all the freedom from the players so they have to do what the game tells them to.

 

Also taking this into consideration you want pubs in void missions?

its pubs now anyway, since you just invite/get invited to play with random people most of the time.

[KriLL3]

If shared XP range was much longer or players too far from the objective were punished in some way you could make a pub work better at least, there isn't really anything in void missions pubbers can do wrong and ruin for you.

 

The problem is that currently people ruining it for the rest are basically rewarded, it's backwards, the game should be designed to reward team play and actually defending the objective.

Edited March 20, 2014 by KriLL3

[matrixEXO]

I think the "token" ought to be called "Fragments of Orokin Technology" since I doubt that Orokins had the time to see into the future and design a Braton Prime or a Burston Prime.

[Feallike]

People have stated a PNG would be a better system for this game.

 

 

PNG: Is random rewards, but every time you don't get that reward your chance of getting it goes up by x%. 

 

 

I somewhat agree that a PNG would make the game allot more fun, but it would be allot harder to ballance so just give the DE time. :)

[Keltik0ne]

The problem is, if RNG is removed from the game rewards system, the lack of content would lose players in days. They need to awful drop rates to keep people playing, it's easier than a continual stream of content.

[Wiegraf]

RNG still needs tweaking, that much is true. It won't be properly fixed until the required content and stuff nears the 1.0 release status as trying to balance it out while simultaneously trying to add stuff will only make it wonky.

 

Second point however : DE isn't responsible for human nature and thus, cannot help you there. Putting up stops will only lead to legitimate, good natured players getting frustrated having to deal with measures put in for the less socially-inclined players which will only mean those former ones will find other ways to annoy (willingly or not) the latter kind of players.

 

It may ring hollow but... if you can't bear PuGs, play with friends or clanmates; it's the only known mean of dealing with the less desirable kind if players in your eyes. The "PuG Problem" is universal to any game and no one has yet managed to find a magical solution to make players reasonable.

[arisaka]

The pug problem is due to the fact that there's no reason why you should help your teammates. I feel like this is due to several issues:

 

* If your numbers (read: shields, dps AKA mods) are good enough, you don't need a team at all

* People often do missions that are way easier than what would be considered challenging for them

* Content is either NUMERICALLY difficult (enemies do more damage and are harder to kill) or not

* There's little strategy for most of the game besides "shoot everything that moves with 20k dps guns"

* There is no balance because skill is not nearly as important as mods and other factors (loadout, frame, etc) that you can't change while you're ingame

[IamSalva]

"DE, IT'S TIME WE TALK ABOUT THE SOURCES OF ANNOYANCE AND ANGER IN THIS GAME"

 

 

Number 1 reason for annoyance and anger in WF?

 

PPL whining on the Forums about RNG, Game beeing to hard, DE beeing to greddy...

 

 

Just stop it.

[arisaka]

"DE, IT'S TIME WE TALK ABOUT THE SOURCES OF ANNOYANCE AND ANGER IN THIS GAME"

 

 

Number 1 reason for annoyance and anger in WF?

 

PPL whining on the Forums about RNG, Game beeing to hard, DE beeing to greddy...

 

 

Just stop it.

 

Complaining about complaining isn't constructive. Remember the whole "beta is beta" thing that people use to...complain about complainers? Well guess what, some of these suggestions are worth paying attention to because many people think this game has serious problems in its core. And if they aren't addressed before this game is considered fully released.

[KriLL3]

RNG still needs tweaking, that much is true. It won't be properly fixed until the required content and stuff nears the 1.0 release status as trying to balance it out while simultaneously trying to add stuff will only make it wonky.

 

WF isn't going to have a 1.0 and expecting everything to magically solve itself once it hits 1.0 isn't realistic, you think WF will be sold on store shelves?

RNG doesn't need tweaking, they've done that already, multiple times, it needs getting rid of.

 

Second point however : DE isn't responsible for human nature and thus, cannot help you there. Putting up stops will only lead to legitimate, good natured players getting frustrated having to deal with measures put in for the less socially-inclined players which will only mean those former ones will find other ways to annoy (willingly or not) the latter kind of players.

 

Pugs in other game modes where it's less easy for a lone player doing the wrong thing ruining it for everyone doesn't have the same problems, extermination for one, as long as one player doesn't run far ahead of the rest and kill everything you're garanteed shared XP, and the player in front shouldn't remain in front for long since they need to at least stop long enough to kill stuff which trailing players don't need to do, mobile defense simply isn't designed properly, there are a bunch of ways to solve it, calling it a lost cause and the players fault isn't constructive.

 

Big problem as well is that you can't correct players doing the wrong thing, because they either don't have chat open, or don't speak english.

 

Pugs doing what pugs do is a bit of a problem but a properly designed game can still make that work out.

Edited March 21, 2014 by KriLL3

[(PSN)andyb_b5]

Being near the head of the alphabet I tend to get a lot of random pug invites so four things...

 

1. allow me the option to be able to block non friend invites automatically (a toggle on/off option please)

2. automatically reject invites if I'm already in the countdown to start an instance

3. tell me what the heck I am being invited to, some details needed here

4. make the accept key triangle or a left dpad action. I don't want to accidently accept another invite.