Genoscythe Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Or.. you know. Make a new frame with different skills. Maybe make the skills interchangable with the counterpart (DE said they though about it) and get to keep both of the characters. Maybe there could be slight difference between them too.. you know.. instead of being just a suit. That's the difference.. I like to think I'm controling different characters, while some people like to think that they are the Tenno and they just change the suits. I think that having different characters is more interesting than playing the same one every time. Either way this is a design direction and I have the right to support it and be against shift in the design philosophy that would make the game less interesting to me. Hell, give me even more characterization.. what are Rhino's hobbies? Lifting? I want to know! This I understand, but DE also made some contrdicting statements on alter ego vs. different characters(we still dont know if we play one tenno or different persons, we only know that if 2 people play the same frame they are not playing as the same person). The problem is that it would take years (literally) to make a new-skillset counterpart to every frame. Thats why im a fan of the alternate model idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailchaser Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I am a big supporter for gender identification. That being said, this is a HORRIBLE idea for this game, and it's been beaten into the ground. This game has characters, and you can either choose to play as those characters, or you can not. We don't need Super Maria's World for people to identify with a female Mario, we don't need Larry Croft in Tomb Raider for people to identify with that character. They are characters in a game, and you can play as them or not. If it's any consolation, a Warframe is a costume. No one knows what your Tenno looks like inside your Rhino. So, just think you're a female Tenno wearing the Rhino "costume." There is something deeply contradictory about those two concepts. They're powersuits, but they're also characters? It's because the idea that they're characters is a holdover from a previous conceptualization of the game which the devs noted they had abandoned once they noticed people becoming very attached to their personal warframes. Now they're powersuits, and more anonymous. bottom line really is that the lore is what the devs want it to be and they hold the keys. As it is, though, current lore does not in any way preclude gender swaps, and honestly, integration wouldn't ruin your geming experience either, as you'd still be free to hold whatever beliefs you held about the warframes prior to the implementation of this scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJadrimian Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Bonus points for consistently misspelling the game's name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Being smarmy about what you're doing doesn't change what it is. Observe; I ask you, is there a demand here? Is there a vociferous call for the devs to respond immediately? No. it was a suggestion. It was a suggestion for an option that many people have voiced their support for. And what was your response? immediate shutdown, based on "DEVS SAID NO SO NO". So what you're doing, is attempting to stop someone from even SUGGESTING something. Is there not something wrong with this situation? Because that is the answer. But no you are right we should treat every new duplicate thread for a tired topic like it's the first time the idea has been brought up and it's a brilliant new insight... or we can get right to the point and cut the crap. Why should any of us care at all whether or not we explain well for the whateverth time when THERE IS ANOTHER THREAD OF THE SAME TOPIC ON THE FRONT FREAKING PAGE. ^ That is the primary issue here. no kid gloves for laziness, no sensitivity for people who won't accept the current answer. It's not censorship because the discussion has already been had at length and no one has anything new to say, certainly not a whole day since the last topic on this. Edited April 2, 2014 by Agent_of_Change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 perhaps the fact that so many more people are against it might in fact indicate that there is less value to the concept than more. At the same time we see new topics for it pop up over and over indicating there are a lot of people for it as well. let's be real for a moment. Why would you care if they put it gender choice? the ONLY logical reason to care is that you are concerned it will take them away from some other aspect of the game. That's a fair concern but the reality is neither side really knows if it will help de generate more money with warframe (and in turn hire more people and make more content) or if it wont. Gender swap skins would not be mere cosmetics. It would change a lot about the lore and maybe even reveal too much about the Tenno (there are things we'd rather imagine), ruining the mystery and intrigue about them. Is there clear lore on how frames relate to gender? Where would I find that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsiezer Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I love how no one has noted the fact that the devs have said they wont be creating alternate gender skins because the diffrent gender is a diffrent warframe entirely ( I belive it was nyx is female version of excalibur, and there were a few more thay stated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batwing Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 If they hired an entire new team to do it so it wouldn't take up the time for far more important updates sure.But i don't want a few weeks of reinforcements to be %$# or a crotch plate. UPDATE 14 IS HERE ! NOW RHINO CAN HAVE THE BOOBS ! But maybe when we're far down the line to a more complete game sure why not people like having options would give groups more diversity too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Apothecary1 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) If it's any consolation, a Warframe is a costume. No one knows what your Tenno looks like inside your Rhino. So, just think you're a female Tenno wearing the Rhino "costume." imagined that men Teno dressed Ember ................. Edited April 2, 2014 by 1Apothecary1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otaiken Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 This I understand, but DE also made some contrdicting statements on alter ego vs. different characters(we still dont know if we play one tenno or different persons, we only know that if 2 people play the same frame they are not playing as the same person). The problem is that it would take years (literally) to make a new-skillset counterpart to every frame. Thats why im a fan of the alternate model idea. I acknowledge the fact that there is not enough characterization in the game atm. Reason why topics like this exist imho... but DE said that they want to develop this. Which they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I love how no one has noted the fact that the devs have said they wont be creating alternate gender skins because the diffrent gender is a diffrent warframe entirely ( I belive it was nyx is female version of excalibur, and there were a few more thay stated) This sounds useful.... If you want to just cherry pick just parts of what DE has said about gender swaps. But if you factor in all of the different things DE has said about it youll notice its not so clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scintilus Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yes please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuRockBR Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 No they said "probably not"... In fact if we go through a bunch of devstreams it shows how they were debating it internally... But even if they did so what? In recent dev streams they have even said they dont use the term "never" anymore because they often change there mind. Heck, look back at some old statements about what melee would not be and yet here we are on the dawn of melee 2.0. doing a lot of those things. lol Ok so I think that I need to stop to lost my time trying to helping the people not lost their time.I think it would be a cool stuff too but I'm conformed about the Dev's answer. Even it happen it will take a loooooong time(I mean "SOON tm" lol). How i said on my first post "I don't want to be rude". Sorry if I sound the otherwise and sorry to try to help. I'm leaving, see you arround. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DevilOfMidnight Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I love playing Nyx, and I'm a dude. I need Valkyr for my next frame because she shouts ALL THE TIME just like me. Also looking forward to Nova. Not feeling icky about a female frame in the least. #BadGirls4Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailchaser Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Because that is the answer. But no you are right we should treat every new duplicate thread for a tired topic like it's the first time the idea has been brought up and it's a brilliant new insight... or we can get right to the point and cut the crap. Why should any of us care at all whether or not we explain well for the whateverth time when THERE IS ANOTHER THREAD OF THE SAME TOPIC ON THE FRONT FREAKING PAGE. ^ That is the primary issue here. no kid gloves for laziness, no sensitivity for people who won't accept the current answer. As Ronyn noted, their response to it was more nuanced than a straight out 'no', but let's function under the assumption that it was a no. What are these forums here for? What do we come here to do but to discuss topics, and provide suggestions that the devs might not initially agree with or have thought of? These forums exist because DE wants to reach out to the community for feedback, suggestions, support, criticism. Not using these forums for that purpose, and indeed condemning those who do, is counter-intuitive to their function. If you do not like these topics, stop spending time in them. Stop clicking on them to disdain them loudly. We're not asking for your sensitivity or for kid gloves. What would be most appreciated would be your apathy. Stop telling people to stop talking when you don't have to listen to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuRockBR Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I love how no one has noted the fact that the devs have said they wont be creating alternate gender skins because the diffrent gender is a diffrent warframe entirely ( I belive it was nyx is female version of excalibur, and there were a few more thay stated) Yeah, to me this is an "It will not happen" but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailchaser Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I love playing Nyx, and I'm a dude. I need Valkyr for my next frame because she shouts ALL THE TIME just like me. Also looking forward to Nova. Not feeling icky about a female frame in the least. #BadGirls4Life. I don't really think it's about that so much as a general desire for customization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 As Ronyn noted, their response to it was more nuanced than a straight out 'no', but let's function under the assumption that it was a no. What are these forums here for? What do we come here to do but to discuss topics, and provide suggestions that the devs might not initially agree with or have thought of? These forums exist because DE wants to reach out to the community for feedback, suggestions, support, criticism. Not using these forums for that purpose, and indeed condemning those who do, is counter-intuitive to their function. If you do not like these topics, stop spending time in them. Stop clicking on them to disdain them loudly. We're not asking for your sensitivity or for kid gloves. What would be most appreciated would be your apathy. Stop telling people to stop talking when you don't have to listen to them. I'm inclined to offer you the same bit of advice. I'm voicing my position, if you don't like it ignore it. I don't want development resources squandered on trivialities when there are things they could better go to. That is why it matters, that is primarily why I speak up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otaiken Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) As Ronyn noted, their response to it was more nuanced than a straight out 'no', but let's function under the assumption that it was a no. What are these forums here for? What do we come here to do but to discuss topics, and provide suggestions that the devs might not initially agree with or have thought of? These forums exist because DE wants to reach out to the community for feedback, suggestions, support, criticism. Not using these forums for that purpose, and indeed condemning those who do, is counter-intuitive to their function. If you do not like these topics, stop spending time in them. Stop clicking on them to disdain them loudly. We're not asking for your sensitivity or for kid gloves. What would be most appreciated would be your apathy. Stop telling people to stop talking when you don't have to listen to them. So you're saying that you either agree.. so you get to participate or you don't.. in which case you shut up? How does that make any sense, especially from someone throwing the word censorship around. I disagree... I said why. Discuss the argument, not the fact that I disagree. Also, sometimes there's not objective thruth and it comes down to DE's preferred design direction.. or it's a siple numbers game. I don't believe having gender swap is objectively better than not having them.. not by a long shot. In this case saying "DE said no." Is perfectly valid.. unless you have the numbers to sway their decisions... but you don't. It's pretty split, hence why you try to silence dissent to inflate your numbers a bit. You're guilty of the exact same thing you criticize. Edited April 2, 2014 by LocoWithGun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Ok so I think that I need to stop to lost my time trying to helping the people not lost their time.I think it would be a cool stuff too but I'm conformed about the Dev's answer. Even it happen it will take a loooooong time(I mean "SOON tm" lol). How i said on my first post "I don't want to be rude". Sorry if I sound the otherwise and sorry to try to help. I'm leaving, see you arround. :) fair enough. Just so you know... DE recently announced that we will be able to swap idle animation sets between frames. Also, that they have the technology to implement powers that can be used on any frame. Most folks probably don't realize that stuff makes gender choice easier than ever. Essentially it means that the biggest thing left for gender swaps is just to create the models themselves. AND considering an early dev stream confirmed that Mynki said he originally created the warframes under the impression that there would be a male and female version of each... there is no reason to think that any of the frames would require a rework just to have an alternate gender. So will there ever be gender choice? No idea. But maybe, just maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailchaser Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I love how no one has noted the fact that the devs have said they wont be creating alternate gender skins because the diffrent gender is a diffrent warframe entirely ( I belive it was nyx is female version of excalibur, and there were a few more thay stated) Nyx being a female Excalibur has never been substantiated, which again ties back to the sheer fluidity of this game's lore. They can do anything with it! They can suddenly declare that Excalibur is actually King Arthur himself, and that Excalibur prime is in fact the killer rabbit of Caerbannogh. It's up to them and nothing is stopping them from changing it as they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronyn Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) I don't want development resources squandered on trivialities when there are things they could better go to. How do you define what are trivialities? I don't believe having gender swap is objectively better than not having them. Neither could be argued as "objectively better". In this case saying "DE said no." Except they didn't. Edited April 2, 2014 by Ronyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailchaser Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm inclined to offer you the same bit of advice. I'm voicing my position, if you don't like it ignore it. I don't want development resources squandered on trivialities when there are things they could better go to. That is why it matters, that is primarily why I speak up. You do realise I was addressing a post in which you directly addressed me and the point I was making, right? And what I'm telling you is that this is a discussion that does not need to be unilaterally shut down. If you do not agree, we'll agree to disagree on that point. But I would strongly encourage you to stop telling people to stop suggesting things, if only because it reduces the diversity of ideas that occurs on the forums by forcing it to conform to what the devs have set out for the game, regardless of how ill-advised or harmful to the community at large that may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevenantPhoenix Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) I'm in favor of the idea of alt-gendered warframes just because it would give me more visual options to play with. I don't have some pro-gender agenda or a strict preference. For example, my main character in WoW is a male, and my main character in GW2 is a female. I really just play whatever I'm in the mood for, or what I think will look the best or be the most fun on a case-by-case basis. Everytime this discussion arises I remember that concept art one of DE's artists did of the female Ash, and I think "gee, I wish I could use that." Because it looks fantastic. End of reasoning. Though I suspect this is because when I play, I imagine that I am playing as *my* Ember, as opposed to simply playing as Ember. I could understand why someone with the reverse mentality would prefer things remain the way they are, on this particular subject. Edited April 2, 2014 by SnazzyWolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otaiken Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Neither could be argued as "objectively better". Except they didn't. This boils down to Avatar system VS Character system. Are we the Tenno or are we controlling the Tenno etc. This is all about preference. And DE said that they want to give every frame their distinct personality and that they want to have more characterization. Hence they are swaying towards the Character system. Which I prefer. So I'm voicing my oppinion about it.. and I also seem to have pre status quo behind me (in the form of DE agreeing with my preference). I simply want to DE to continue in their path. You want DE to change the way they're heading. I don't want that. Hence I disagree. And you should have pretty strong argument or numbers to challenge status quo (especially one that is in no way objectively bad, rather than preferential).. you have neither. So you're asking both DE to change their heading AND players that prefer current system to come to your side... well, I won't. Your argument is not strong enough. And the cosmetics thing is pretty weak... scarf = gender? Common... for avatars.. maybe, not for characters. This is the difference between making Lara Croft wear a difference shirt and making her into Larry Croft. Edited April 2, 2014 by LocoWithGun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) You do realise I was addressing a post in which you directly addressed me and the point I was making, right? And what I'm telling you is that this is a discussion that does not need to be unilaterally shut down. If you do not agree, we'll agree to disagree on that point. But I would strongly encourage you to stop telling people to stop suggesting things, if only because it reduces the diversity of ideas that occurs on the forums by forcing it to conform to what the devs have set out for the game, regardless of how ill-advised or harmful to the community at large that may be. I'm not saying don't suggest things, i am saying that an idea that already has a bunch of threads about it doesn't require a new thread. Then i said it's a bad idea. Then i said the Devs already have a negative stance towards this. You seem to have a hard time distinguishing disagreement from 'censorship', much like how telling me to go away because you don't like what I have to say is exactly what you keep saying i'm doing. Edited April 2, 2014 by Agent_of_Change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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