Tulzscha Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Moved to the proper section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailchaser Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 There was a wider discussion on it aside from it being derailed, have you noticed the amount of responses about why people do or don't want sex changes? There have been multiple, you had one of them with someone regarding design direction. And as I said, there have been MANY discussions on this topic, MANY different forum posts, I can find them and send you them if you want. That won't be necessary, despite your repeated and honestly rather grating offers to do so. Just because there have been many instances of this discussion in the past does not mean that there is no room for another. Old topics approached with new voices, which preferably do not bring with them the baggage of older discussions in monosyllabic denouncements, can yield intellectual bounties as well, and I think it's important we continue to consider that when using these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailchaser Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I offered to show you things twice. I'm not saying it doesn't mean there's no room for another, I'm saying that nothing is being censored here, we've had discussions about this topic, we've had discussions with the same point in other threads as well. And even if you think this forum is so different that people responding negatively to this one repeat of it is the same as censoring, my other point still stands. This has contributed to discussions on its own, in this thread, you have even had one with someone. And you did not need to make that offer once. I have seen the other topics on this subject and the negativity on display here is not isolated to this instance. It is, in my opinion, a type of censorship, which will serve to undermine the function of these forums if it goes unchecked as discussions become harder and harder to find beneath the dogpile of people saying no. You obviously disagree and that's fine. We will agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genoscythe Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Warframe has 2 very good reasons to be mono gender, time and money both excellent reasons. I'm not saying that I wouldn't support DE Should they decide it is a route they wish to go down but they have made their stance on the matter exceedingly clear. The thought that you find it impossible to identify with someone who is the opposite gender as you is... Well in a word scary. Well if you like to pretend youre a woman(assuming you are male), your thing. I dont like it that much. Also money is a good reason to make alternate gender skins. If DE would offer them in the market for platinum they could make tons of money with it. Tons. Edited April 2, 2014 by Genoscythe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaumatos Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 NO STOP It'll happen eventually. The days of fixed-gender gaming are coming to an end...even single player games can be gender neutral with main characters. Look at Mass Effect. DE will get around to it. They've just got more important things to do. Steve has said time and again that the frame is a tool and you are the Tenno inside. Frames have no sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venarge Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Has already been declined by DE several times /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaumatos Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Has already been declined by DE several times /thread Should go watch devstream 25 and then /quit Warframe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReiganCross Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I am a big supporter for gender identification. That being said, this is a HORRIBLE idea for this game, and it's been beaten into the ground. This game has characters, and you can either choose to play as those characters, or you can not. We don't need Super Maria's World for people to identify with a female Mario, we don't need Larry Croft in Tomb Raider for people to identify with that character. They are characters in a game, and you can play as them or not. If it's any consolation, a Warframe is a costume. No one knows what your Tenno looks like inside your Rhino. So, just think you're a female Tenno wearing the Rhino "costume." Man, if this game really is about making the Warframe to be "characters" and they officially anounce that... Well, i'll just jump ship right away. I seriously hate the idea of "You're all playing the same 16 guys, all 1 million of you!" When i main a frame i expect to be able to identify myself with it more then i would non-relate to Mario or Kratos. It is kind of a matter of immersion, even LoL that is mainly about the characters instead of giving you a character to customize give you the excuse of you being a "Summoner" that have weird spell powers and can make something into the game like making someone's pants burst in flames or something... If you tell me that we're all 16 dudes running around the world then this might as well have been a Single-player game with a weirdly bloated combat gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaumatos Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Nyx was the idea for excals female counter part but then they scraped the idea and gave her her own abilities and type also dude it doesn't matter if your a guy playing a fem chara there were page long threads of people talking about this no one cares and one more thing its better than having all the charas be guys cause that would be a sexist sausage fest Sex doesn't matter but there has to be females because that would be sexist.... Troll or just modern-day sheep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyApathy Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Ever tried to actually consider how much extra work making alternate gender frames just for the sake of cosmetics would actually involve? 1. Alternate model for each existing frame 2. Alternate model for each prime version of frames 3. Second alternate set of models for each helmet for frames 4. Alternate set of unique animations for each frame I would think the amount of work just for the sake of appearances would be a huge waste for DE when they could be working on more meaningful content. I do like the idea however of having an 'alternate' gender frame that is a different take on the theme of existing frames, like having a tanky male fire based frame that punches people and causes them to burst into flames as the counterpart to Ember's fragile caster role. This I would actually support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriVerda Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It was never for sale, or even in-a-game-that-anyone-outside-DE-saw. That video is pre-alpha, I.E. before closed beta. I distinctively remember seeing it in market... I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metsudo Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 That's not really any different than his idea, though. There's a place on the internet for people who want to stare at females. Note the fact that I did say... "Also ask yourself this, if you are a person attracted to females, would you rather have to stare at a male or female figure in a 3rd person game?" This is a 3rd person game after all so you don't really have a choice. Also just because a person has a sexual preference in lieu of which gender, if forced to look at, they'd rather see isn't a bad thing. It's called being human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesseract_The_Pariah Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 (edited) Ever tried to actually consider how much extra work making alternate gender frames just for the sake of cosmetics would actually involve? 1. Alternate model for each existing frame 2. Alternate model for each prime version of frames 3. Second alternate set of models for each helmet for frames 4. Alternate set of unique animations for each frame I would think the amount of work just for the sake of appearances would be a huge waste for DE when they could be working on more meaningful content. I do like the idea however of having an 'alternate' gender frame that is a different take on the theme of existing frames, like having a tanky male fire based frame that punches people and causes them to burst into flames as the counterpart to Ember's fragile caster role. This I would actually support. It would be a waste, Tenno are Genderless, or at least non binary in the most literal sense. They change their gender at will. It's spread throughout all the game; for instance, you fight a boss, and he says "That EXCALIBUR warframe will look nice on my wall, Gaminus!" Switch to Nova "That NOVA warframe will look nice on my wall, Gaminus!" Addition. If Nova was made as a research project from the Lotus, and yet all Tenno awake in cryopods, what does that mean for her? For Zephyr? It means that each Warframe =/= Tenno. Edited April 2, 2014 by Gaminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReiganCross Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It would be a waste, Tenno are Genderless, or at least non binary in the most literal sense. They change their gender at will. It's spread throughout all the game; for instance, you fight a boss, and he says "That EXCALIBUR warframe will look nice on my wall, Gaminus!" Switch to Nova "That NOVA warframe will look nice on my wall, Gaminus!" Addition. If Nova was made as a research project from the Lotus, and yet all Tenno awake in cryopods, what does that mean for her? For Zephyr? It means that each Warframe =/= Tenno. You don't know that... Nobody knows that... There is no lore set in wet tissue, much less in stone. What you are doing is assuming, and i can very much assume that the only reason that boss only calls us by the name of the Warframe is because they only care for it. The boss also says those things of our weaponry. And you know, you could be entirely right but then again entirely wrong... Why? Because the creator REFUSE to set the universe! They just want to make games and have fun with a non-existant lore that completely alienates everyone by attempting to include every theory as possible (Which i believe is the reason why the hell they haven't even explained to us what the hell we ARE!) (Oh yeah, and by the way so people won't just throw the word "Lore" about without regard for it's actual meaning like... Well, like Steve does. Lore means the rules of the fantasy. It means establishing that Vampires burn under the sun, need to drink blood to survive and how they work. Lore is not telling a story. Lore is best DELIVERED trough story, yes, because you are supposed to weave the lore into your story-telling method instead of just using exposition, but it is not the story itself!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NearlyDedicated Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It would be a waste, Tenno are Genderless, or at least non binary in the most literal sense. They change their gender at will. It's spread throughout all the game; for instance, you fight a boss, and he says "That EXCALIBUR warframe will look nice on my wall, Gaminus!" Switch to Nova "That NOVA warframe will look nice on my wall, Gaminus!" Addition. If Nova was made as a research project from the Lotus, and yet all Tenno awake in cryopods, what does that mean for her? For Zephyr? It means that each Warframe =/= Tenno. Tenno are the bearers of the Warframe. If you look in the Warframe cryopods in defense missions, no Warframe lies inside. Just a man/woman in what appears to be some sort of undergarment / gown. THESE are Tenno. The Nova frame is a frame designed for the females rescued in the cryopods. I know this doesn't go along with "The Call" trailer, but notice that the Excalibur in the trailer is in what appears to be an Orokin ship or derelict. Perhaps the highest Tenno stayed in their warframes, and went into cryosleep in the Void / Derelicts. The lower Tenno did not stay in their frames, and went to cryosleep around the solar system wearing their undergarment / gowns. This is speculation, but I think this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SableSonata Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Please change it to "Gender" :p That would just make it incorrect. The OP is interested in changing the (apparent) sex of the Warframes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxMAGGOTxX Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I really don't see a problem with this. Why would one single gender be restricted to one single Warframe? Why can't my Frost have boobs? Oh right, sorry, it would be too mono-gender to have only one gender use one suit.... Wait... It's actually a bit too mono-gender to have a Frost restricted to being male, or a Valkyr only female. Yes, lots of work would go into it, but if I remember correctly, people wanted a Melee 2.0 because the current melee system was a bit lack-luster. LOL OOPS, that would require too much work. I'm not saying this should be a priority, but I think it should definitely be on the list. I wouldn't mind having a female Nekros. I think that would be awesome. Boobs and necromancy, my dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noogums Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Merged the stragglers together and created a Megathread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchPhaeton Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 This is the only place in the internets multiverse where I see such irrational opposition to a simple customization alternative. This is the era of customization. Everyone loves customization. Just jump in any game and you will see pink rhinos, black nyxes, dragon sentinels, and so on. Customization gives you a deeper involvement in the game, as it makes you feel you're doing YOUR thing. This stuff about frames genders is more about the people wanting freedom and variety of customization than any of the weird stuff I've read here ("monosex? really?). As we all know the DEVs themselves had the idea of gender variations for each frame, at the very beginning of the Warframe Experiment. As I understand so far it was scratched for reasons... budget, schedule, resources, etc. An example of this phenomena is how our first frames were simple in design, and as The Game grew economically and technologically we got more and more stuff like Zephyr which has so much detail yo barely can tell them. These "reasons" might as well be still valid today, and as players we support the decision they take of focusing in the game itself rather than dealing with modeling/rigging/and all that stuff that implies the introduction of a frame. In other games you just change the base model and some stuff, but given the detail the frames have it's a bit more complex. I don't see the point in going fanatically sticking to the decision taken back then for practical purposes, or in attacking each other, or trying to stand out putting "funny" No's with no further brain work. I want to say this: If in the future it becomes an option to choose the gender of the frame, as an old player and as a Disciple I support it. Even if it costs plat, and that's a lot coming from me! My goal then would be building two of each frame and taking them to rock the Sol system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noogums Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Snip DE hasn't done anything about it yet because it works like this: DE spends weeks, months even, designing, modelling, texturing the alternate version. Lots of time, money and effort. Player Bob starts the game up. "Huh. I can choose to be a female. That's cool, I guess." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocent_Flower Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 DE hasn't done anything about it yet because it works like this: DE spends weeks, months even, designing, modelling, texturing the alternate version. Lots of time, money and effort. Player Bob starts the game up. "Huh. I can choose to be a female. That's cool, I guess." In that case we might as well not have colour pallets, alt skins and half the weapons in the game. Designing? we're wanting the same frame with/without boobs. The models don't exactly need to be entirely from scratch and nor do the textures. Someone mentioned something about "making frames with similar themes, different abilities and a different gender" That's more of a waste. Why not just let players switch some frame abilities round? "Firebomb" instead of "fireball" or "grand ice wave" instead of frost's ult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noogums Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) In that case we might as well not have colour pallets, alt skins and half the weapons in the game. Designing? we're wanting the same frame with/without boobs. The models don't exactly need to be entirely from scratch and nor do the textures. Someone mentioned something about "making frames with similar themes, different abilities and a different gender" That's more of a waste. Why not just let players switch some frame abilities round? "Firebomb" instead of "fireball" or "grand ice wave" instead of frost's ult. Simply adding/removing anatomy would look unacceptably terrible. These Frames were designed to be their specific genders (Excalibur being the exception, because that was early days. And I'm 90% sure Nyx was modelled from scratch, anyway. Or at least had a LOT of work put into her.), you can't just click a button to change them. Yes, you would have to make the models entirely from scratch, because that's how you do things if you want them done properly. Yes, they would have to be designed, too. If you're just copy-pasting this Frame/skin and adding/removing anatomy, then you aren't treating it properly. Assets, especially those as important as the characters we play, have to be given the highest order of care. They are all individually designed, modelled, unwrapped, textured, and animated (Idles). So, if you have a brand new model now, why not go a step further and give it a new name, new abilities, and new stats? If you go that far, why is it still a skin? And there you go. New Warframe in an existing theme, but with it's own personality. Besides, DE have stated that they will never do simple gender-switching. If they DID explore the idea, it would be the thing with an all new Warframe in the same them, unless they can think of a better way to do it. Edited April 3, 2014 by Noogums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innocent_Flower Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 So, if you have a brand new model now, why not go a step further and give it a new name, new abilities, and new stats? If you go that far, why is it still a skin? You missed my point. Why not give all frames alternate stats and abilities? Since we're going that far; why not give most frames the alternate gender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noogums Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 You missed my point. Why not give all frames alternate stats and abilities? Since we're going that far; why not give most frames the alternate gender? I don't get it. All Frames WOULD get it if they decided to do it. It's just not very likely to happen at this point in time, or any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchPhaeton Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 (edited) DE hasn't done anything about it yet because it works like this: DE spends weeks, months even, designing, modelling, texturing the alternate version. Lots of time, money and effort. Player Bob starts the game up. "Huh. I can choose to be a female. That's cool, I guess." Well isn't that exactly what I stated? A cool option everyone (or at least most normal people) would like. Besides, games that take a long time to develop are beaten by players in 30h. We understand it has not been implemented for those reasons. We understand it means a lot of work. We have supported DE's decision of keeping "monogender" to this point in favor of developing the game itself But If the opportunity comes, we would support simple gender change. Players aren't asking all that work of coming up with new powers etc. if the devs feel like that must be done those are verses for another song. What I will never understand is the fanatic hatred towards this option. Lotus brainwashing? The fact that these threads don't stop showing up is not idiocy, like some try to put it; it's the honest feedback of a lot of old and new players, showing their expectations; nothing else. Edited April 3, 2014 by ArchPhaeton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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