About Prime Weapons And Prime Warframes

[-Ozymandias-]

First i'd like to say i love this game, its pretty awesome and fun...im technicaly a noob because i've been playing for a little time, so any comments or clarifications about this topic are very wellcome. (sorry for my bad english)

 

1st- In my opinion, there are weapons that need to be balanced according to the effort it takes to get them.

       Example:

       

       Braton: Base damage: 18   Crit: 1.5x/10%  Status: 5%

       Braton Prime: Base damage: 24  Crit: 1.5x/10%  Status: 10%

       Boltor: Base damage: 24  Crit: 1.5x/5%  status: 10%

       Boltor prime: Base damage: 54  Crit: 2x/5%  status: 10%

 

The braton prime is hard to get, you need to farm void missions over and over to get it and it has the same base damage as the regular boltor, which you can get really easily, and theres only a difference of 6 base damage from the regular braton...then the difference between the regular boltor and the boltor prime is huge, more than twice the base damage.

I mean...the braton prime, an orokin enhanced weapon that you need to farm from the void, has the same stats as a cheap regular weapon.

In the other hand we have the Soma, which is really really cheap and its soo OP and anyone can get it because mastery rank 6 is very easy to achieve, and it makes all other weapons look useless, including clan weapons (which require tons of resources to craft, like the supra, not to mention the previous research needed) (also not including the boltor prime)

I mean, everywhere i look i see Rhino+Soma, Nova+Soma, i think it'd be boring to use the same weapon all the time, also pointing out again its a craftable weapon from the market and cheap to get and if you want to use, lets say, the braton PRIME against high level enemies you literaly suck. Well, thats my opinion about the weapons in need to be balanced according to the effort it takes to get them. Im not saying the boltor prime or the soma need to be nerfed, but other weapons need to be buffed.

 

2nd- Warframes and prime warframes:

 

In my opinion they should have different stats, like more shields or energy according to the warframe, because the only difference is the appearance, and they are the orokin enhanced versions so i think they deserve better stats, i have a maxed out rhino, whats the difference if i get the prime? just more bling bling lol

Also i think their abilities should be a little stronger (a friend told me they actually are 10% stronger than the regular ones, so if thats true i'd like to know, i havent done a proper test)

 

3rd- The last one, it would be logic if elemental warframes would be invulnerable to their respective element (volt invulnerable to electricity, ember invulnerable to fire, etc) (also i've heard they only take about 10% damage of their respective element, so i'd like this to be clarified, but still i think its not enough lol)

I mean, saryn is a toxic warframe and she can die from toxic damage lol

 

Well thats my opinion, and again every comment and clarification about those points are very wellcome.

This is a great game but i think there are a few things that need to be fixed, according to the required time and effort.

 

Thanks

[Brimir]

Rhino Prime is rather bizarre: DE's stance on Prime Warframes (as opposed to Prime Weaponry) has always been that they are a visual upgrade only.

 

It conflicts with them making Rhino Prime faster...

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

ok.

[-Ozymandias-]

Rhino Prime is rather bizarre: DE's stance on Prime Warframes (as opposed to Prime Weaponry) has always been that they are a visual upgrade only.

 

It conflicts with them making Rhino Prime faster...

Yes i know and thats why im saying they deserve better stats, id rather wait longer and get a stronger warframe

[yarash2110]

I just want to remind you that braton is a starter weapon, but i do agree about braton prime, and prime warframes have no buffs besides an extra polarity and elemental frames have no buffs compared to others, but i wish they did, DE this thread is importent, make it happen!

About braton prime i think it should either be buffed or make all of the parts common and uncommon, i mean come on, it shouldn't be an amazing weapon its just a primed starter weapon

[-Ozymandias-]

I just want to remind you that braton is a starter weapon, but i do agree about braton prime, and prime warframes have no buffs besides an extra polarity and elemental frames have no buffs compared to others, but i wish they did, DE this thread is importent, make it happen!

About braton prime i think it should either be buffed or make all of the parts common and uncommon, i mean come on, it shouldn't be an amazing weapon its just a primed starter weapon

Thanks for the support :)

[Brimir]

Yes i know and thats why im saying they deserve better stats, id rather wait longer and get a stronger warframe

 

I disagree, really. The Warframes are balanced around the stats of the core Warframes. If you make the Prime Warframes even stronger, you would set the balance of the game out of whack.

[AcholSucks]

i'm always welcoming buffs :T but then i'll just wait and see

[Rhundis]

Rhino Prime is rather bizarre: DE's stance on Prime Warframes (as opposed to Prime Weaponry) has always been that they are a visual upgrade only.

 

It conflicts with them making Rhino Prime faster...

Then explain how frost prime has an extra polarity slot over vanilla frost.

[Brimir]

Then explain how frost prime has an extra polarity slot over vanilla frost.

 

Well, whether or not the additional Polarity slot is actually beneficial is still up to debate.

[Wallace24]

despite being a "noob," you do seem to have a good grasp on this game, and you've stumbled upon a pretty big issue in the braton prime/boltor comparison, along with the soma. prime weapons should be better than their normal counterparts, but when you compare them to similar weapons, some don't hold up (like the braton prime. very unfortunate)

 

the boltor->boltor prime upgrade is huge, I'm not entirely sure why DE released it like that. it's a beast of a gun. however, it can actually compete with the soma for assault rifle dominance, so that's good, at least. but if you look at the base damage comparison, braton prime got about a 30% increase (33%, technically), while boltor prime got more than 100% increase over the boltor (125%). these two may be extremes (akbronco prime doesn't have any damage increase, just a redistribution and a massive status chance buff. which is acceptable), but still, that huge disparity is ridiculous

 

the idea that warframes should be immune/resistance to their own elements has been throw around probably ever since those frames were released. I don't think immunity would be the answer, but I always through a passive resistance to the frame's element would be good. but I don't think DE wanted such passive abilities in the game. it very well may cause a huge imbalance. plus non-elemental frames would be left out (fine for trinity, she's immune to everything anyway, but loki, ash, nekros, and valkyr, what would they resist? at least you can argue for impact-resistant rhino, slash-resistant excalibur, and blast-resistant banshee)

 

I also think that prime frames should be different from their normal counterparts. if they fit two different roles, then both frames will have viability. right now, the major difference is the bling factor. except the rhino prime dilemma. it used to be important that primes had an extra polarity, but now with formas, the base polarities really don't matter much. slight stat increases would be alright, but I think prime frames should have a different set of abilities. or slightly altered abilities. just so they work differently, and it gives the original frames a purpose

 

still hoping DE releases more abilities for each frame. but I feel like that would require a change in the loadout UI so that you're limited to 1 of each ability type (only can equip 1 ult, for example). but it has to allow you to run a build with less than 4 abilities equipped, too, so those 4 slots can't just be static or set. then when you equip mods on your frame, it has to check if they're compatible as you edit them. maybe someday

[taiiat]

this again? *disheaving sigh*

 

stat creep is not the only thing that can be used to make Equipment appealing. 

 

in fact, Rhino and Boltor Prime clash with the entire game, and should have their statistics redone to fit better into the scope of the game we already have.

 

as well as some of our resident 'broken' Equipment, we know which ones those are.

 

 

if every addition to the game is stat creep, good luck with longevity of the game, every player is going to SKIP everything that comes before the newest thing, because it's statistically superior in all possible ways.

so then, good luck being able to pump out content faster than players will consume it if they are skipping the first 99% of the game. that's a guaranteed failure.

 

do heed my words one day, Digital Extremes. stat creep nullifies previous content, and that means you have players old and new sitting and waiting for new content. players leave if they wait too long, because they want to play a game, not wait for the game. remember that most players consume content at a rate of faster than a Drag Racer consumes Gasoline, and without content to be moving through, they get lost.

players need goals, real ones, not number chasing. it's a small minority that can set goals for themselves, those players can handle fine. but those that see nothing to aim for, won't pull the trigger. 

 

and gating that content behind timewalls (like Mastery) is a very flat, one-dimensional 'solution', that makes Warframe a very shallow game, where then it literally will be War Grind or War Farm or Grind Frame or whatever you want to call it - as your ultimate goal will be to grind some arbitrary numbers to get stat creep Equipment so you can.... have better Equipment that trivializes the Gameplay even more?

not good. this isn't WoW, you don't have 10 million hardcore veterans that have been playing the game since the beginning of time, you can't just ignore everyone else other than those veterans, because you just don't have the customer base for that to work.

Then explain how frost prime has an extra polarity slot over vanilla frost.

Prime Warframes have an extra Polarity. supposed to, that is. EmberP not withholding.

[-Ozymandias-]

despite being a "noob," you do seem to have a good grasp on this game, and you've stumbled upon a pretty big issue in the braton prime/boltor comparison, along with the soma. prime weapons should be better than their normal counterparts, but when you compare them to similar weapons, some don't hold up (like the braton prime. very unfortunate)

 

the boltor->boltor prime upgrade is huge, I'm not entirely sure why DE released it like that. it's a beast of a gun. however, it can actually compete with the soma for assault rifle dominance, so that's good, at least. but if you look at the base damage comparison, braton prime got about a 30% increase (33%, technically), while boltor prime got more than 100% increase over the boltor (125%). these two may be extremes (akbronco prime doesn't have any damage increase, just a redistribution and a massive status chance buff. which is acceptable), but still, that huge disparity is ridiculous

 

the idea that warframes should be immune/resistance to their own elements has been throw around probably ever since those frames were released. I don't think immunity would be the answer, but I always through a passive resistance to the frame's element would be good. but I don't think DE wanted such passive abilities in the game. it very well may cause a huge imbalance. plus non-elemental frames would be left out (fine for trinity, she's immune to everything anyway, but loki, ash, nekros, and valkyr, what would they resist? at least you can argue for impact-resistant rhino, slash-resistant excalibur, and blast-resistant banshee)

 

I also think that prime frames should be different from their normal counterparts. if they fit two different roles, then both frames will have viability. right now, the major difference is the bling factor. except the rhino prime dilemma. it used to be important that primes had an extra polarity, but now with formas, the base polarities really don't matter much. slight stat increases would be alright, but I think prime frames should have a different set of abilities. or slightly altered abilities. just so they work differently, and it gives the original frames a purpose

 

still hoping DE releases more abilities for each frame. but I feel like that would require a change in the loadout UI so that you're limited to 1 of each ability type (only can equip 1 ult, for example). but it has to allow you to run a build with less than 4 abilities equipped, too, so those 4 slots can't just be static or set. then when you equip mods on your frame, it has to check if they're compatible as you edit them. maybe someday

yeah slight stat increases for prime warframes, nothing too big but something that makes a difference

 

and thanks for the support on the prime weapons point

[-Ozymandias-]

this again? *disheaving sigh*

 

stat creep is not the only thing that can be used to make Equipment appealing. 

 

in fact, Rhino and Boltor Prime clash with the entire game, and should have their statistics redone to fit better into the scope of the game we already have.

 

as well as some of our resident 'broken' Equipment, we know which ones those are.

 

 

if every addition to the game is stat creep, good luck with longevity of the game, every player is going to SKIP everything that comes before the newest thing, because it's statistically superior in all possible ways.

so then, good luck being able to pump out content faster than players will consume it if they are skipping the first 99% of the game. that's a guaranteed failure.

 

do heed my words one day, Digital Extremes. stat creep nullifies previous content, and that means you have players old and new sitting and waiting for new content. players leave if they wait too long, because they want to play a game, not wait for the game. remember that most players consume content at a rate of faster than a Drag Racer consumes Gasoline, and without content to be moving through, they get lost.

players need goals, real ones, not number chasing. it's a small minority that can set goals for themselves, those players can handle fine. but those that see nothing to aim for, won't pull the trigger. 

 

and gating that content behind timewalls (like Mastery) is a very flat, one-dimensional 'solution', that makes Warframe a very shallow game, where then it literally will be War Grind or War Farm or Grind Frame or whatever you want to call it - as your ultimate goal will be to grind some arbitrary numbers to get stat creep Equipment so you can.... have better Equipment that trivializes the Gameplay even more?

not good. this isn't WoW, you don't have 10 million hardcore veterans that have been playing the game since the beginning of time, you can't just ignore everyone else other than those veterans, because you just don't have the customer base for that to work.

Prime Warframes have an extra Polarity. supposed to, that is. EmberP not withholding.

"this again?"

Sorry but as i said ive been playing for a little time, so i dont know if this is an old discussion.

 

And for the "every player is going to SKIP everything that comes before the newest thing, because it's statistically superior in all possible ways." a high mastery rank requirement would be the solution

Edited March 21, 2014 by Angainor

[yarash2110]

Then explain how frost prime has an extra polarity slot over vanilla frost.

all of tw prime warframes have an extra polarity including rhino prime, its not something spaciel that can't be changed witha single forma

[taiiat]

"this again?"

Sorry but as i said ive been playing for a little time, so i dont know if this is an old discussion.

 

And for the "every player is going to SKIP everything that comes before the newest thing, because it's statistically superior in all possible ways." a high mastery rank requirement would be the solution

- wasn't saying that specifically towards you, just the same things keep coming up over and over.

 

- i already covered that. Mastery Ranks doesn't 'solve' anything, simply puts in lots of 'grindwalls' that players are already complaining there's too much of (not that i really agree with that though). and just because you need to 'grind' to get stat creep, doesn't change that it is stat creep, and that there's no reason for you to touch any of the earlier content (other than passive level it and sell), if you know there's something that's 100% superior to it in the future.

[Etsoree]

Rhino Prime is rather bizarre: DE's stance on Prime Warframes (as opposed to Prime Weaponry) has always been that they are a visual upgrade only.

 

It conflicts with them making Rhino Prime faster...

 

Excalibur Prime has different stats as well.

[Brimir]

Excalibur Prime has different stats as well.

 

Really? Like what? I don't take mine out for a spin as often as I should...

[Seraiya.Gier]

Incoming power creep criers.

 

OP, Yes, I agree. primes should be better than their regular version. DE is making it so, as you can see with Rhino Prime, Boltor etc.

[Valiant]

Really? Like what? I don't take mine out for a spin as often as I should...

More shields or regen. Something like that. Mag Prime apparently has more shield regen so I assume it must have a little more shielding then.

[Killist]

More shields or regen. Something like that. Mag Prime apparently has more shield regen so I assume it must have a little more shielding then.

I was under the impression that shield regen boost for Excal Prime is quite negligible.

It's no way near as game changing as Rhino Prime's speed boost.

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

While I would like to see the Prime frames be a little better, they can't all be buffed since one is exclusive to Founders. If Excal Prime was buffed, you'd have everyone that doesn't have him making a fuss, and if he wasn't, Founders would probably make a fuss. As long as one is permanently unobtainable to non-Founders, it's not going to happen.

[Sloan441]

I think the Braton Prime could use a buff, similar to what the Latron Prime received. The base Braton could probably use a bit more itself, seeing the difficulties new players are having on Earth these days.

 

It doesn't need a huge amount of extra damage, but kicking it up about 15% I think is entirely warranted and would put it on par with the Burston Prime. However, you wouldn't want to go too far. The weapon is still very good as it is now. It's adequate up until the 50s, but the other prime primaries have left it behind with the latest buffing cycles.

[OniDax]

Incoming power creep criers.

 

OP, Yes, I agree. primes should be better than their regular version. DE is making it so, as you can see with Rhino Prime, Boltor etc.

 

They need to make ALL the primes better than their regular counterparts, including Excalibur Prime.

[Valiant]

I was under the impression that shield regen boost for Excal Prime is quite negligible.

It's no way near as game changing as Rhino Prime's speed boost.

Yep, never disputed that fact. 

 

Same goes for Mag's 'improvement'. It's not significant. What are Frosts and Embers exactly? Whatever they are, if they exist (think Frost has a shield alteration too, yay...) I sincerely doubt they have significant boosts either.

 

 

While I would like to see the Prime frames be a little better, they can't all be buffed since one is exclusive to Founders. If Excal Prime was buffed, you'd have everyone that doesn't have him making a fuss, and if he wasn't, Founders would probably make a fuss. As long as one is permanently unobtainable to non-Founders, it's not going to happen.

No that's nonsense. Aside from the fact people already make a fuss. 

Edited March 21, 2014 by Naith