(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Basically what you said, yes. What interests me about this is that there's no reason the stats couldn't have been kept as a separate modification (e.g. some kind of 'emblem'), which would please both people who wanted to keep their stat modding-helmets and people who didn't want stat modding helmets. Well I think it's because they want stat boosts limited to mods. Moving the source of the stat boost wouldn't change the fact it's effect is the same as a corrupted mod. Now alternatively they could have added corrupted mods that have the same effect as the helms. That would also give them a chance to balance them better. Bacon Mod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvershadow66 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Im confused... So they are making every future helmet, both new and old aquired by the player statless but at the same time leting people who have had the stat helmets keep the stats as a option? Yes, and the reason seems to be that players will have bought stat helmets with Platinum for the stats rather than the appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrien Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Well I think it's because they want stat boosts limited to mods. Moving the source of the stat boost wouldn't change the fact it's effect is the same as a corrupted mod. Now alternatively they could have added corrupted mods that have the same effect as the helms. That would also give them a chance to balance them better. Bacon Mod! Prime/Vandal/Wraith guns effect gameplay, too. Edited March 21, 2014 by Zerrien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Simba_KillzZ Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 i wish we were able to swap stats on helmets. i refuse to use the essence helmet on loki. u look like a naked tree branch. but the power efficiency would be nice to put on my swindle helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laoshottie_X Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 They should make the pre-existing stats equipable in a seperate slot, because what is the point of a prime warframe when people want to use the helms purely for stats and not keeping the prime looks? No point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsVampyre Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Yeah!! more cries for nerfs! Just what we need, more people trying to control the way other people play. Look, if you don't want the stats, don't use the helmets. There's no 'balance' issue until some people have it and other people can't get it. But your constant whining to take away something from other players creates this situation. STOP ASKING FOR NERFS TO THINGS YOU DON'T WANT TO USE. Just don't use it. It's like you're a bunch of children who just can't accept that you don't get to dictate the rules to everyone else. I sincerely wish DE would just stop listening to you, because you have a knack of making EVERYTHING worse EVERYTIME you open your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Pax Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) This is a poor move on DE's part. Time and again it's been mentioned or suggested that helmets SHOULD have a stat bonus tied to having them, BUT this stat is an option that is unlocked as a choice, like if I have an alt helmet a drop down menu would become a part of warframe customisation and I could select that stat at any time with any helmet. I.e. Having the helmets unlocks a stat bonus that can be equipped at will with any helmet, meaning I can choose the bonus I'd like whilst also being able to choose the helmet I prefer the look of. No loss what-so-ever. Unless DE take away the stat completely I will always use the Essence helmet on Loki despite how hideous it is - and if they do I myself will be upset with the change as not only did I purchase the helmet using platinum, I also used it to incorporate into a clear cut, crafted and dried build that plays to my standards and style. Not only would they be re-negging on a platinum purchase (essentially because I didn't buy it for it's appearance) it would also break a build that I spent time, effort and thought into building. Edited March 21, 2014 by J-Pax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrPhantom Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately, such a reasonable idea clashes with the need to make a quick buck off cosmetics. Except the emblems aren't cosmetic and they could be put in alerts as well. I see no conflict here. Well I think it's because they want stat boosts limited to mods. Moving the source of the stat boost wouldn't change the fact it's effect is the same as a corrupted mod. Now alternatively they could have added corrupted mods that have the same effect as the helms. That would also give them a chance to balance them better. Bacon Mod! Aye, but that takes up a mod slot, and a single mod slot can actually matter a lot when it comes to frames - something important with many of the helmet's minor boosts were that they didn't waste mod slots, so you could use them in other builds.. Plus, these new corrupted mods would likely have to scale, and I don't think scaling overall speed boosts (Hemlock and Vanguard) would go too well. A non-cosmetic emblem would be just as hard to acquire (assuming they remain alert-exclusive), provide the same minor boost, and not conflict with the visual-based helmet at all. This is a poor move on DE's part. Time and again it's been mentioned or suggested that helmets SHOULD have a stat bonus tied to having them, BUT this stat is an option that is unlocked as a choice, like if I have an alt helmet a drop down menu would become a part of warframe customisation and I could select that stat at any time with any helmet. I.e. Having the helmets unlocks a stat bonus that can be equipped at will with any helmet, meaning I can choose the bonus I'd like whilst also being able to choose the helmet I prefer the look of. No loss what-so-ever. Unless DE take away the stat completely I will always use the Essence helmet on Loki despite how hideous it is - and if they do I myself will be upset with the change as not only did I purchase the helmet using platinum, I also used it to incorporate into a clear cut, crafted and dried build that plays to my standards and style. Not only would they be re-negging on a platinum purchase (essentially because I didn't buy it for it's appearance) it would also break a build that I spent time, effort and thought into building. Funnily enough, the more I review this thread, the more I get the feeling that DE could've done this a better way that would've let players keep their stats and give people the statless helmets they wanted; my suggestion itself is based on several ones that have been made before about separating stats and helmets. Let's keep this thread going - DE can do better than this and we should let them know that. Edited March 21, 2014 by ZephyrPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARLOCKE Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'll say it, but the vanguard helmet is so near and dear to so many people at this point even the suggestion of removing it will cause fits of mindless apoplectic anger. You just can't talk to people about balance I guess. I think it's a good move to make the all statless from here on out at least. Or perhaps its a collection of whiney players that other wise would be moaning about MP and Nova. Bacon helm is fine, This is the best move they can make, to please the whiners and keep the vets happy. I hope they increase Frost movement speed to compensate and make the regualar Rhino a 1.0 base speed. Ember and Poisongirl (forgetting her name, sadly.) are a it slow as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrien Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 This is the best move they can make, to please the whiners and keep the vets happy. I hope they increase Frost movement speed to compensate and make the regualar Rhino a 1.0 base speed. Ember and Poisongirl (forgetting her name, sadly.) are a it slow as well. Yes, the proper fix is to buff everything, and make a new baseline. Now you're thinking like a DE developer! :^), be sure to warn everyone that anyone with an old Rhino or Poisongirl, that if they don't own it when the upgrade happens, they'll get an account-locked exclusive bundle that provides +2 speed to all characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbatico Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 mark my words, a few weeks after this is changed the forums will be flooded with topics similar to the founder gear topics that we have all seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent_of_Change Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) mark my words, a few weeks after this is changed the forums will be flooded with topics similar to the founder gear topics that we have all seen. That's why it should to be all or nothing. If for no other reason than to prevent yet another batch of entitled whining. but the problem is f they went with the universal all helmets are statless (which is the only 'fair' way to do it other than leaving it as is) you'd have a different batch of complaints. Fact is DE has to pick their poison as to which whine they'd rather deal with, and that's on them, they certainly can't please everyone. Edited March 21, 2014 by Agent_of_Change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARLOCKE Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Yes, the proper fix is to buff everything, and make a new baseline. Now you're thinking like a DE developer! :^), be sure to warn everyone that anyone with an old Rhino or Poisongirl, that if they don't own it when the upgrade happens, they'll get an account-locked exclusive bundle that provides +2 speed to all characters. Speed in this game can and does equate to defense at its highest settings (loki, bacon prime.) but to say Frost or Poisongirl players should wallow in a unfun mechanic that doesnt even impact game balance in a significant fashion is, well, bad. You are a bad man. Edited March 21, 2014 by WARLOCKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckBucher Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 What is this "baconhelmet" some of you were talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrien Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Fact is DE has to pick their poison as to which whine they'd rather deal with, and that's on them, they certainly can't please everyone. Exactly, they're going to appeal the spenders. The ones who will be upset they bought Helmets for the Stats, and no longer have access to those stats. They bought it simply to have an advantage over other people, and when that is taken away from them, they no longer have their paid advantage. (Of course, most helmets are available through the alert system, but, have fun waiting for that specific helmet you want for your build.) Speed in this game can and does equate to defense at its highest settings (loki, bacon prime.) but to say Frost or Poisongirl players should wallow in a unfun mechanic that doesnt even impact game balance in a significant fashion is, well, bad. You are a bad man. So, powerful frames shouldn't have any negatives? While poor Poisongirl (Saryn, btw,) isn't much of a powerhouse currently, she was designed a current way, wasn't she? And I have no problem keeping up with anyone using the Thrak helmet on Rhino. Speed is relative, dependent on a player's skill. Edited March 21, 2014 by Zerrien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Except the emblems aren't cosmetic and they could be put in alerts as well. I see no conflict here. Aye, but that takes up a mod slot, and a single mod slot can actually matter a lot when it comes to frames - something important with many of the helmet's minor boosts were that they didn't waste mod slots, so you could use them in other builds.. Plus, these new corrupted mods would likely have to scale, and I don't think scaling overall speed boosts (Hemlock and Vanguard) would go too well. A non-cosmetic emblem would be just as hard to acquire (assuming they remain alert-exclusive), provide the same minor boost, and not conflict with the visual-based helmet at all. Funnily enough, the more I review this thread, the more I get the feeling that DE could've done this a better way that would've let players keep their stats and give people the statless helmets they wanted; my suggestion itself is based on several ones that have been made before about separating stats and helmets. Let's keep this thread going - DE can do better than this and we should let them know that. sorry about the long quote on my phone and limited. I think that would be the point. The frames are all powerful enough to handle all normal content in the game. So why do they need a bonus stat boost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsVampyre Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 That's why it should to be all or nothing. If for no other reason than to prevent yet another batch of entitled whining. but the problem is f they went with the universal all helmets are statless (which is the only 'fair' way to do it other than leaving it as is) you'd have a different batch of complaints. Fact is DE has to pick their poison as to which whine they'd rather deal with, and that's on them, they certainly can't please everyone. Yes, let's blatantly ignore the suggestion to just make the stat changes optional, because that would mean no one would whine and everyone gets what they want, but then you couldn't be telling them how to play. (╯'□')╯︵ ┻━┻ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 What is this "baconhelmet" some of you were talking about? Rhino vanguard I assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZephyrPhantom Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) Regarding the Rhino Vanguard point of view - this is a thread about all the helmets, not just Rhino Vanguard. There are other useful helmets out there, like Loki Essence, Ember Phoenix, Saryn Hemlock, Frost Squall, and so on. Just sayin' That's why it should to be all or nothing. If for no other reason than to prevent yet another batch of entitled whining. but the problem is f they went with the universal all helmets are statless (which is the only 'fair' way to do it other than leaving it as is) you'd have a different batch of complaints. Fact is DE has to pick their poison as to which whine they'd rather deal with, and that's on them, they certainly can't please everyone. I don't get how making a non-cosmetic stat-boost slot would be any worse (if not better) than all or nothing - with no (stats), players who wanted to keep the stats will complain about entitlement, while all (stats) would retain the old "cosmetics shouldn't boost stats" argument. Splitting the current helmets into statless helmets and stat-boosting emblems would answer both problems without a complaint. sorry about the long quote on my phone and limited. I think that would be the point. The frames are all powerful enough to handle all normal content in the game. So why do they need a bonus stat boost? Because its endgame where those boosts start to matter, just like how one more/less level in a mod can make a frame a whole lot more/less effective. What is this "baconhelmet" some of you were talking about? Not sure, but I want my jelly helmet now. Edited March 21, 2014 by ZephyrPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrosslyIncandescent1709 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 that's horrible... helmet stats are not necessary for the game and should be removed as long as they're tied to frames. letting vets keep them is the worst decision DE could have made, it's basically a middle finger for everyone who joins after the moment they remove stats. i'm starting to loose my faith in DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARLOCKE Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Exactly, they're going to appeal the spenders. The ones who will be upset they bought Helmets for the Stats, and no longer have access to those stats. They bought it simply to have an advantage over other people, and when that is taken away from them, they no longer have their paid advantage. (Of course, most helmets are available through the alert system, but, have fun waiting for that specific helmet you want for your build.) So, powerful frames shouldn't have any negatives? While poor Poisongirl (Saryn, btw,) isn't much of a powerhouse currently, she was designed a current way, wasn't she? And I have no problem keeping up with anyone using the Thrak helmet on Rhino. Speed is relative, dependent on a player's skill. Lol ok, I can safely sweep anything you have typed under the rug with that I can keep up with other players with Thrakk tripe. Here is a hint. Warframe does not require skill, gain validation elsewhere. And yes, Both poisongirl and Frosts speed is at a unfun level. Its bad design, And I would hardly qualify those two frames of being "powerfull". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerrien Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Lol ok, I can safely sweep anything you have typed under the rug with that I can keep up with other players with Thrakk tripe. Here is a hint. Warframe does not require skill, gain validation elsewhere. And yes, Both poisongirl and Frosts speed is at a unfun level. Its bad design, And I would hardly qualify those two frames of being "powerfull". We're talking about the fact that soon, there's going to be a set of exclusive helmets for players who already own them, with stats, that newer players WILL NOT have access to. There are much more unfun things out there that need to be covered before the speed of Saryn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArsVampyre Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Here's a suggest instead: Put stat changes on every cosmetic item. Scarves, helmets, emblems; hell, you could even make sheaths for swords, pommels, etc. Open a whole new market, and new things to put in the alert system to take up the space of those wasted alerts for tiny amounts of credits or nanospores or any other the other alerts no one runs because the reward has no value. Even the sentinel cosmetics. Then make the stat changes a toggle. Give me something to use my plat on that I'd actually want to buy to play with. Once you've got all the weapons and the frames and the sentinels, there comes a time when you just don't have a reason to play anymore except to tinker. Give me more options to tinker than mod cards. Even little tweaks. A different style pommel and a sheath for my Galatine (one of the things I really like for my Dual Zorens is the dagger axe skin, but I WISH it had some sort of stat change that let me tinker with them). And yet DE doesn't consider it because whiners without vision don't see the value in tinkering with their builds; they just want someone to tell them "Do x for best frame" or "do Y for best grineer damage" and be done with it. Go back to Call of Duty please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARLOCKE Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 that's horrible... helmet stats are not necessary for the game and should be removed as long as they're tied to frames. letting vets keep them is the worst decision DE could have made, it's basically a middle finger for everyone who joins after the moment they remove stats. i'm starting to loose my faith in DE The real bad move DE made was to listen to the whine squad in the first place. Things get retired in online games, deal. Only in the warframe forums is it this much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Lol ok, I can safely sweep anything you have typed under the rug with that I can keep up with other players with Thrakk tripe. Here is a hint. Warframe does not require skill, gain validation elsewhere. And yes, Both poisongirl and Frosts speed is at a unfun level. Its bad design, And I would hardly qualify those two frames of being "powerfull". Is it at all possible that you just aren't any good with slow frames? I mean frost is a beast when done right. It's the slow is bad argument that makes me think it's user error considering how many other people successfully use frost and his kin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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