Mickey1779 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Scott's spur of the minute decision during Livestream 25 that older alternate helmets with stats would be discontinued and have non-stat versions released and that people with the existing stat-alternate helmets could keep them is a very bad decision for Warframe. This decision adds another 27 exclusive items to an ever growing list of reasons why the player base continues to shrink and getting new players to pickup the game gets harder and harder. The number of exclusive mods (released through events and "bugged" patches), weapons (founders and events) and warframes (founders) continues to grow with every event and occasionally patches between events. A number of these exclusive mods and weapons are BIS. How do you expect people to start playing a game when they have no chance to get these items and you (DE) continue down this slippery slope of exclusivity? This is reminiscent to the bad decision by DE on Oct.31, 2013 to allow people to keep game breaking mods that were accidentally released through transmutation with patch 10.6 (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/126550-psa-unintended-modaura-inclusion/) DE needs to revert this spur of the minute decision and just remove stats from ALL alternate helmets. FYI, I have all the alternate helmets, I am not QQing because I do not have them. I am concerned about the current and future integrity of the game as more and more exclusive items keep getting added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYABU5A Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 i love exclusive items everyone has one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtexas Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Or what they should do is add a damn Helmet costume slot. Then they can add stats to all the helmets and it won't matter. You can pick a helmet for its stats, or pick a helmet for its appearance, or both if you like both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamSalva Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Yeah, when i start a new game, i begin with reasearch about how many exclusive items are in the game and how good they are. When my reasearch shows that the state of exclusives is ok, i download the game and see if its fun.... Oh maybe i would jsut download it, see if its fun and not care about this useless "collecor stuff"... realy.. i can not imagine ANY new player stopping to play because there are some weapons he can´t craft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctuhDrew Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 as soon as i heard him say that, i made sure to build every alternate helmet in my foundry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatolius Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 To me its just kinda "congrates! If you were around, good for you! If you werent, sorry but that is how the world works." Harsh but realistic. If i started after the helmets, events, ect I wouldnt be upset because, well, I wasnt there from the get-go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)natek_morzy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 "How do you expect people to start playing a game when they have no chance to get these items and you (DE) continue down this slippery slope of exclusivity?" You honestly think this little exclusivity will be a turn-off for future players? It's not that big of a deal. Not getting a mod will be worse than a few stats from some cosmetic helmet and you don't see us PS4 players whining about not getting Primed Chamber.. honestly, dude.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liavalenth Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 ...Not getting a mod will be worse than a few stats from some cosmetic helmet... While I do agree with you, I do believe it is important to mention that they are not cosmetic helmets they are mechanic helmets. Each one gives a bonus and small penalty, such as +15% power effeciency for -5% health. They are removing the mechanics but will bring the cosmetics back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenosInfinity Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I would really like to see the stats forcibly removed from helmets and made accessible by other means which are more readily available - maybe make them built into the frame the way stances are but with a little more balance. Case in point, Essence and Vanguard. Nobody cares about Loki's armour, he doesn't HAVE any armour. But the efficiency? Great. It needs something to balance it as an actual drawback. Vanguard? WARP SPEEEEED Oh my iron skin's gone, recast WARP SPEEEED. Just to clarify, I have both of these. And I hate that it's practically compulsory to use Vanguard if you want to keep up with your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalenath Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) OR they could just remove everything, dump all the ideas into the trash can and make a whole new game. And STILL people would complain. I mean, they are not exclusive except you have to... *gasp* PAY for them... or wait for them in alerts... ooo, bad... Must have them for free and now or they are 'exclusive' and evil! Ah... Okay... Whatever floats your boat... Edited March 23, 2014 by Kalenath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegetableBasket Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 They don't want people who bought helmets to QQ. They don't want stats on helmets. I really think they should do everything or nothing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisa Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I wonder if this means they plan on yanking the stats from other skins as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evers Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I don't have a problem with exclusiv mods, weapons, helmets, and so on when they are given as a reward for smthing. You supported the Game by beeing a founder and got an exclusiv frame and 2 weapons? Good why should someone who didn't supported the Game get them now? You played the Game for a long time and participated in the Events and got a few mods and weapons for it? Good, why should someone who didn't get them now? And its not like any of those things are so powerful that you can't play the Game when you don't have them. If you are too late you are simply too late. Compare the Events to a Race which takes place on a certain day and everyone who beats a certain time gets a prize. Would you go there then a few days after the race and complain about not getting the prizes because you are too late? I can't imagine you would. Also i don't hear people complaining when they missed a Kickstartercampaing because they were too late and now can't get the rewards offered there. But here you do that because...? That the Founder programm would end was announced long before it ended. So you had enough time to become a founder. Live with it and don't be late for something when you want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)ariaandkia Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Maybe they could've done stat chips that have the same effect as the helms as a slot item and then given everyone that already has a helmet stat chips. Then remove the stats from all helms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomder Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Or what they should do is add a damn Helmet costume slot. Then they can add stats to all the helmets and it won't matter. You can pick a helmet for its stats, or pick a helmet for its appearance, or both if you like both. This and nothing else. It makes the most since and everybody but nerf nazis are happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorCensored Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Scott's spur of the minute decision during Livestream 25 that older alternate helmets with stats would be discontinued and have non-stat versions released and that people with the existing stat-alternate helmets could keep them is a very bad decision for Warframe. This decision adds another 27 exclusive items to an ever growing list of reasons why the player base continues to shrink and getting new players to pickup the game gets harder and harder. The number of exclusive mods (released through events and "bugged" patches), weapons (founders and events) and warframes (founders) continues to grow with every event and occasionally patches between events. A number of these exclusive mods and weapons are BIS. How do you expect people to start playing a game when they have no chance to get these items and you (DE) continue down this slippery slope of exclusivity? This is reminiscent to the bad decision by DE on Oct.31, 2013 to allow people to keep game breaking mods that were accidentally released through transmutation with patch 10.6 (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/126550-psa-unintended-modaura-inclusion/) DE needs to revert this spur of the minute decision and just remove stats from ALL alternate helmets. FYI, I have all the alternate helmets, I am not QQing because I do not have them. I am concerned about the current and future integrity of the game as more and more exclusive items keep getting added. I agree that creating additional exclusive items is bad. However, I think making each hat build award both a cosmetic and a stat alteration component that can be mixed and matched, like other were suggesting, is probably the best option. Unless DE is trying to cut down on the number of ways people can min-max their builds, in which case they need to pull the stat bonus from all the existing helmets out there. I don't think leaving existing hats with their stat change while rolling out new versions of the hats without the stat change is fair to new players. Further, last I checked, you can't sell hats; so, even if you wanted to get rid of the old hats to put yourself on even footing with new players, you couldn't. i love exclusive items everyone has one Exclusive items are almost always universally bad for gaming communities. And not everyone has one. Or what they should do is add a damn Helmet costume slot. Then they can add stats to all the helmets and it won't matter. You can pick a helmet for its stats, or pick a helmet for its appearance, or both if you like both. I think this is the best solution. Build a hat, gain a cosmetic and an optional stat alteration effect. You can equip either independently. If its a coding issue, make them two separate items, as someone else suggested: when you build a hat, you get a hat and a corresponding hat mod. Every hat has one mod slot, all hat mods have a cost of 1, and have a warframe affinity like warframe powers. Again, unless DE's trying to tamp down on the min-maxing. Yeah, when i start a new game, i begin with reasearch about how many exclusive items are in the game and how good they are. When my reasearch shows that the state of exclusives is ok, i download the game and see if its fun.... Oh maybe i would jsut download it, see if its fun and not care about this useless "collecor stuff"... realy.. i can not imagine ANY new player stopping to play because there are some weapons he can´t craft... You say that... I generally stay away from games where I know there are exclusive items. Why? I like to know that I have a full set of everything in a game. I'm a collector and a completionist. I started playing Warframe because it was suggested to me by some friends - I had been waiting for it to exit beta before trying it, and they kinda coaxed me into playing. And shortly there after I learned I was locked out of a Prime version of one of the Warframes... I was going to stop playing then, but a friend pointed out I could still get all the base frames and weapons, and that Prime frames and weapons were basically shiny skins with some mod-slot tweeks (not quite true I've learned but that's another story). So I wrote off Primes kept playing only to find out since I came to the game late I couldn't even get a full set of basic weapons: the Boar, the Dual Ether Daggers, and the Snipertron are all unavailable. The only reason I'm still playing is because DE has stated that it is possible that the Boar and Dual Ether Daggers may be made available again in the future, and that the Snipertron was removed for lore reasons (though, I don't understand why it wasn't then removed from players inventories and replaced with the Lanka...). If DE changes its mind on that one, or they end up releasing a Wraith or Vandal or other non-standard version of the Boar and Dual Ether Daggers instead, I'm leaving. To me its just kinda "congrates! If you were around, good for you! If you werent, sorry but that is how the world works." Harsh but realistic. If i started after the helmets, events, ect I wouldnt be upset because, well, I wasnt there from the get-go Its a poor thing to do for communities over the long term. It breeds elitism on one side and resentment on the other. Its one thing if the events repeat, or the items become available on a rolling schedule; its another if the content is permanently locked away. "How do you expect people to start playing a game when they have no chance to get these items and you (DE) continue down this slippery slope of exclusivity?" You honestly think this little exclusivity will be a turn-off for future players? It's not that big of a deal. Not getting a mod will be worse than a few stats from some cosmetic helmet and you don't see us PS4 players whining about not getting Primed Chamber.. honestly, dude.. 1) Yes, it is a disincentive for new players. A similar issue almost made me stop playing after I discovered it. Had I know before hand, I would have probably skipped starting all together; and a similar issue may stop me from playing in the future. Like many people, I know people with similar tastes in games and play styles, and I know exclusives are a turn off for them. 2) Yes, you do see PS4 players complaining all the time about all the stuff they don't have that is PC exclusive. Or at least I do. I would really like to see the stats forcibly removed from helmets and made accessible by other means which are more readily available - maybe make them built into the frame the way stances are but with a little more balance. Case in point, Essence and Vanguard. Nobody cares about Loki's armour, he doesn't HAVE any armour. But the efficiency? Great. It needs something to balance it as an actual drawback. Vanguard? WARP SPEEEEED Oh my iron skin's gone, recast WARP SPEEEED. Just to clarify, I have both of these. And I hate that it's practically compulsory to use Vanguard if you want to keep up with your team. I agree. They don't want people who bought helmets to QQ. They don't want stats on helmets. I really think they should do everything or nothing though. No matter what choice they make, they are going to upset someone. I do think that they should go all one way or all another though. Picking the middle and trying to please everyone will ultimately make everyone miserable. I wonder if this means they plan on yanking the stats from other skins as well. I hope they go all or nothing. I don't have a problem with exclusiv mods, weapons, helmets, and so on when they are given as a reward for smthing. You supported the Game by beeing a founder and got an exclusiv frame and 2 weapons? Good why should someone who didn't supported the Game get them now? You played the Game for a long time and participated in the Events and got a few mods and weapons for it? Good, why should someone who didn't get them now? And its not like any of those things are so powerful that you can't play the Game when you don't have them. If you are too late you are simply too late. Compare the Events to a Race which takes place on a certain day and everyone who beats a certain time gets a prize. Would you go there then a few days after the race and complain about not getting the prizes because you are too late? I can't imagine you would. Also i don't hear people complaining when they missed a Kickstartercampaing because they were too late and now can't get the rewards offered there. But here you do that because...? That the Founder programm would end was announced long before it ended. So you had enough time to become a founder. Live with it and don't be late for something when you want it. 1) Exclusive items are exclusive - in a number of ways. When people see a game loaded full of shinies, its attractive. When people learn a game is full of shinies, but they can never have them; they either ignore the game, ignore the shinies, or become resentful. If they ignore the game, you're keeping players out of the game. If they ignore the shinies, you're sucking a large amount of the shinies' value away: what good is it to have an exclusive warframe if no one cares or is indifferent about it. If they become resentful, you've now created a rift in your player base and the haves and the have nots will become combative and argumentative; and it can poison the community. 2) Virtual goods do not suffer any meaningful scarcity, unlike physical goods. 3) Many completions are repeatable. Take, say, the Stanley Cup or the Olympics. Sure, you have to wait 1-4 years for another go at it, but, if you do, you can still win the award - its not locked away forever. 4) To my knowledge, there's no Founder's exclusive award in most real-world based games, like Football or Chess or Scrabble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomsDayDan Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Jesus, DE can't lift a finger without people crying about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EChondo Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 as soon as i heard him say that, i made sure to build every alternate helmet in my foundry Same, then bought the last two stat based helmets I needed that I never got a BP for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendantWyvern Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Scott's spur of the minute decision during Livestream 25 that older alternate helmets with stats would be discontinued and have non-stat versions released and that people with the existing stat-alternate helmets could keep them is a very bad decision for Warframe. This decision adds another 27 exclusive items to an ever growing list of reasons why the player base continues to shrink and getting new players to pickup the game gets harder and harder. The number of exclusive mods (released through events and "bugged" patches), weapons (founders and events) and warframes (founders) continues to grow with every event and occasionally patches between events. A number of these exclusive mods and weapons are BIS. How do you expect people to start playing a game when they have no chance to get these items and you (DE) continue down this slippery slope of exclusivity? This is reminiscent to the bad decision by DE on Oct.31, 2013 to allow people to keep game breaking mods that were accidentally released through transmutation with patch 10.6 (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/126550-psa-unintended-modaura-inclusion/) DE needs to revert this spur of the minute decision and just remove stats from ALL alternate helmets. FYI, I have all the alternate helmets, I am not QQing because I do not have them. I am concerned about the current and future integrity of the game as more and more exclusive items keep getting added. I agree...DE needs to stop with these half-measures to try to please everyone. Because when they do, they'll please no one. Either remove ALL stats on helmets, or implement an aura slot-like system mentioned in multiple threads (the latest of which, being this one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escape123 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Some of the Helmets are core for builds. Rhino Speed, Trinity Duration, Banshee Power Efficiency, Volt Duration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.ominous Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Or what they should do is add a damn Helmet costume slot. Then they can add stats to all the helmets and it won't matter. You can pick a helmet for its stats, or pick a helmet for its appearance, or both if you like both. Sounds good to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorCensored Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I have to say Warframe is the only game I have encountered where people complain about Exclusives. If you join a game 2 months / years down the line you are going into a game where it is guaranteed people will have items you won't have or can't get. Yet I have never seen people complain about it like they do here. People were here earlier, they got items for being around longer - that's just an accepted fact. Why do people honestly complain about it? There's absolutely no valid reason for it. I'd personally love Excal Prime, do I complain I can't get it? No (what bites more for me is that I COULD have bought the founder pack, but I wasn't playing as much then). People may feel like they're penalising new players for not finding the game in time but in all honesty, if you pick up the game now or 5 years from now it really doesn't matter. Just enjoy the game for what it is, not for what you can't have. Again I will re-iterate. Stop complaining about exclusives You must not have played Team Fortress 2 then... Edit: Also, read my response to Evers. Some of the Helmets are core for builds. Rhino Speed, Trinity Duration, Banshee Power Efficiency, Volt Duration That speaks to deeper balance issues. Edited March 23, 2014 by PoorCensored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoorCensored Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I've played TF2, if I recall most of their exclusives require you to buy certain games and then you can get x items (which you can trade with others I believe? Or at least some can be). I'm aware helmets will be core to certain builds and that it'll be "unfair" to future players who can't get them. However that's just life, if you come into a game later than everybody else, people WILL have items you won't. I've played GW2, where there are some item's that won't return because they were at the time. I can't really say I've seen people complain about not being able to obtain them, just here in WF is that problem (hugely) recurring. Regarding TF2 items: Yes, a lot of the limited edition items require you to buy certain other games and most are now tradeable. But not all limited edition items work that way, not all limited edition items are tradeable, and those that are tradeable weren't always tradeable. My main point is that the TF2 community has had *way* more rancor over limited edition items than here. For starters, individually the Halocaust (Cheater's Lament), the Soldier's Medal, the Sam & Max items, the Ear Buds, and the Golden Wrench fiascos make everything here seem like little more than a minor annoyance - all together they they are like the storm on Jupiter being compared to a boiling tea pot. Regarding availability, see my response to Evers. Also, doing something just because its how its been done is a bad reason to do anything. Edited March 23, 2014 by PoorCensored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)natek_morzy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 2) Yes, you do see PS4 players complaining all the time about all the stuff they don't have that is PC exclusive. Or at least I do. I was referring specifically to a simple mod we, as PS4 players, cannot get, not exclusives in general.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePresident777 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I was hasty in uprating the OP. I DISAGREE WITH OP. I enjoy the stats. I don't care if they are on the helmet or on fuzzy pink slippers. I enjoy the stats. Therefore, I do not want to lose them, because I enjoy them. My issue with the stats being taken off the helmets is that they are being taken away from people who would enjoy using them and creating haves vs. have nots. Another issue is DE continues to not thoroughly resolve issues, but, instead make a change and leave the new issue festering for months instead of making a comprehensive solution. The problems never end. Every solution creates a new problem. I suppose it's good for job security, but, I think Customer Satisfaction is even better for job security. Edited March 23, 2014 by ThePresident777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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