Just Remove The Arc Traps, De

[Brimir]

Arc Trap spawning inside the wall.

 

The effort you would need to put into fixing this mess could be better spent on something else.

 

Just do the players, and yourself, a favour and scrap the concept entirely.

 

The Grineer Security Doors were a good concept that worked out well in-game. Take some solace in that, they work just fine. The Arc Traps... not so much.

[Pyrefly]

+1.

[Senketsu_]

no i like them better as arc traps and plus they hardly do any damage now. there perfectly fine as they are now.

[DaftMeat]

[.Talia.]

Inside the wall is bad, should be fixed. But the Arc Traps are fine, they fixed what was wrong with the Broken Lights. Now the damage is acceptable, they are easy to identify, and don't spawn in the starting room. I don't think they should remove it, its a nice addition to the game. My opinion.

[SoulEchelon]

Eh, just needs a few more tweaks. Though i still think my idea for them was better than this. Either way, Steve and Scott seem pretty adamant on keeping them around.

Edited March 23, 2014 by SoulEchelon

[WarGrylls]

The arc traps are fine, just need coding tweaks.

[Bobsplosion]

They should be removed.

 

If they aren't removed, they should be put on Enemy Radar/Sensor.

[Verryn]

-snip-

That heavily implied arc traps within arc traps for a while.

[Destro6677]

I am not entertained by arc traps. Signed.

[Zoid25]

I like them as they are now. Leave them. Bugs will be fixed in time. Deal with it.

[DalaiLlama]

They're not a bad idea, but coming from just one player, I don't feel a large significance in them in terms of adding depth to gameplay as it is now.

 

The way pacing works now with players rushing at breakneck speeds, these traps are of little importance; rather, environmental dangers have proven most effective when pacing is slower, when players must stop and observe their surroundings before formulating a course of best action.  Only then are the attention spans of the players extended beyond "Shoot whatever moves until it stops moving." to "What is around me, what do I need to be mindful of, and how can I best traverse this area.".

[Brimir]

I like them as they are now. Leave them. Bugs will be fixed in time. Deal with it.

 

They're just not a good enough gameplay element to warrant the time and effort, simple as that.

[VKhaun]

We need hazards to put the burden on the rusher to deal with something, instead of putting the burden on the entire rest of the game's community to keep up with any asshat who puts on Quick Rest and Fury.

 

 

 

 

If they aren't removed, they should be put on Enemy Radar/Sensor.

 

Reasonable request.

[Hrodgrim]

They're not a bad idea, but coming from just one player, I don't feel a large significance in them in terms of adding depth to gameplay as it is now.

 

The way pacing works now with players rushing at breakneck speeds, these traps are of little importance; rather, environmental dangers have proven most effective when pacing is slower, when players must stop and observe their surroundings before formulating a course of best action.  Only then are the attention spans of the players extended beyond "Shoot whatever moves until it stops moving." to "What is around me, what do I need to be mindful of, and how can I best traverse this area.".

This is where more puzzles comes in handy!

[theGreatZamboni]

Inside the wall is bad, should be fixed. But the Arc Traps are fine, they fixed what was wrong with the Broken Lights. Now the damage is acceptable, they are easy to identify, and don't spawn in the starting room. I don't think they should remove it, its a nice addition to the game. My opinion.

 

They can't even get barrels to always spawn correctly. Loot crates and containers are frequently spawned in walls and various part of the environment.

[DalaiLlama]

We need hazards to put the burden on the rusher to deal with something, instead of putting the burden on the entire rest of the game's community to keep up with any asshat who puts on Quick Rest and Fury.

 

 

 

 

 

Reasonable request.

 

Except when rushers ignore the traps, leaving them for the team to deal with along with the hordes of enemies they stealthed through.

[Iacon]

don't know what is worst... this guy asking to make the game even easier or a rhino complaining about that... omg omg in invincinble and can ultra aoe the trap inside the wall (not) gunna kilz me

[Brimir]

this guy asking to make the game even easier

 

The traps have not made the game more difficult, but a million times more annoying.

[VKhaun]

Except when rushers ignore the traps, leaving them for the team to deal with along with the hordes of enemies they stealthed through.

Except when everyone ignores the traps, leaving them for everyone else to ignore along with the hordes of enemies they instagib with their Somas and Boltor Primes?

The discussion obviously only matters when we assume some kind of balance between the enemies and the players, be that end-game balance or gear strength vs level enemy level being somehow in balance. Right now there are, clearly, major issues with balance throughout the game since we have no incentive to limit our gear and no gates on content to limit people without gear and of course no real End Game yet.

We could continue to compare arguments set in balanced hypotheticals with imbalanced hypotheticals of our own if we just want to look right on the internet, but the end goal of a constructive discussion has got to be a balanced and playable game. Feedback to improve one aspect on the game based on the idea that other things won't also be improved is not going to move us towards that end.

If a rusher can ignore the hazard then so can anyone else, and it's not balanced. It would need additional strength or additional effects. The difference between the rusher and anyone else, would be a disproportionate amount of time available to identify and react to the hazard before being hit by it, created by their moving faster and more recklessly than a normal player.

Edited March 23, 2014 by VKhaun

[DalaiLlama]

Except when everyone ignores the traps, leaving them for everyone else to ignore along with the hordes of enemies they instagib with their Somas and Boltor Primes?

The discussion obviously only matters when we assume some kind of balance between the enemies and the players, be that end-game balance or gear strength vs level enemy level being somehow in balance. Right now there are, clearly, major issues with balance throughout the game since we have no incentive to limit our gear and no gates on content to limit people without gear and of course no real End Game yet.

We could continue to compare arguments set in balanced hypotheticals with imbalanced hypotheticals of our own if we just want to look right on the internet, but the end goal of a constructive discussion has got to be a balanced and playable game. Feedback to improve one aspect on the game based on the idea that other things won't also be improved is not going to move us towards that end.

If a rusher can ignore the hazard then so can anyone else, and it's not balanced. It would need additional strength or additional effects. The difference between the rusher and anyone else, would be a disproportionate amount of time available to identify and react to the hazard before being hit by it, created by their moving faster and more recklessly than a normal player.

 

In case you haven't read, the post also talked about their worth as content and how much it adds to gameplay and the depth thereof.  Something that adds nothing to gameplay should be considered for removal; something that adds nothing to gameplay but frustration or otherwise negative effects must be considered for removal.  That is game design.

 

There is little worth in polishing bad content, as proven by various game releases in the past.  (I'd name a couple but this is a Warframe forum.)  Balance is an endgoal, and while I am all for adding content that fries rushers, attempting to balance inherently bad content is not as good of a solution as dealing with the content itself.

 

However, some people do believe that these lights make a good addition to gameplay depth, the reasons behind this I am curious to find out.

Edited March 23, 2014 by DalaiLlama

[VKhaun]

In case you haven't read, the post also talked about their worth as content and how much it adds to gameplay and the depth thereof.  Something that adds nothing to gameplay should be considered for removal; something that adds nothing to gameplay but frustration or otherwise negative effects must be considered for removal.  That is game design.

 

There is little worth in polishing bad content, as proven by various game releases in the past.  (I'd name a couple but this is a Warframe forum.)  Balance is an endgoal, and while I am all for adding content that fries rushers, attempting to balance inherently bad content is not as good of a solution as dealing with the content itself.

 

That's nonsense.

 

Hazards can clearly add plenty to a video game. Even if you take away my personal interest in the effect on pacing, there's plenty of precedent for hazards doing all sorts of things to create gameplay in various ways in all kinds of games.

 

If Arc Traps aren't adding what/as much as you expect, then that's the start of a discussion on how to improve them. Going from that to removing them doesn't really make sense except as a rationalization to remove something you don't like.

[shut]

The traps have not made the game more difficult, but a million times more annoying.

Basically, this. The whole system seems incredibly arbitrary; the player isn't punished for not being careful, they're being punished for not paying attention to something that's completely unrelated to their objective.

 

The "electric trap" thing needs to get the Explosive Barrel / Reinforced Window treatment. Instead of suddenly attacking passersby out of nowhere (and no, "they make noise and are easy to detect" isn't a good enough excuse for forcing the player to waste ammo and potentially give away their position), they should only attack when destroyed by someone foolish enough to attack it. If "they make noise and are easy to detect" is intended to be a part of the weapon's role, then these "traps" should be replaced by full-out Sentries rather than sparkly lumps that stick to walls.

 

If the electric hazard is to stay, then Broken Lights should make a return, but should start out "unbroken" until damaged by stray fire. Once broken, they should also zap anything that comes near, not just Tenno.

Edited March 23, 2014 by SortaRandom

[Starbridge]

No.  Keep them.  Adds the extra element to being careful when doing stealth missions.

 

Scan scan level?

[Brimir]

Hazards can clearly add plenty to a video game.

 

Yes, and the new Grineer Security Doors is a good example of this.

 

As is the old Camera-Activates-Laser-Barrier-system that the Corpus have got going.

 

These are good hazards because they punish the reckless/unwary while the eagle-eyed/careful player can circumvent them with a bit of effort.

 

As opposed to Arc Traps which just punishes you because the inherent "cheapness" to their design. Even if they spend time and effort on fixing the spawning, the core issue of the Arc Traps will always remain - the inherent "anti-fun cheapness" they bring. They add nothing of value to the game and is a waste of development resources and time better spent elsewhere.

 

That inherent "cheapness" did not change when they made the switch from Broken Lights to Arc Traps - just the severity of it did.

 

 

If the electric hazard is to stay, then Broken Lights should make a return, but should start out "unbroken" until damaged by stray fire. Once broken, they should also zap anything that comes near, not just Tenno.

 

That is a brilliant idea actually.

 

+1

Edited March 23, 2014 by Brimir