Fenrisulfr Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 As someone who for a while mained Rhino, I agree that Vanguard is single most powerful helmet in game. Its simply too good not to use, and I feel it doesn't just ruin Rhino's theme (and balance, while we're at it), but also singlehandedly destroys any possibility that anyone who has it will ever use any other helmet. I don't think thats a healthy approach to whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)billy-d-squid Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Nekros' 4 is actually a great move that deals scaling damage and provides good CC. They just need to fix it so that the casting animation isn't so long and so that the summons' AI is more responsive. It's been a long time since I use Nekros, suffice to say I loathed SoTD, I didn't see that the damage dealt was in anyway negligible, although that could be because the borked AI or the aim is just really bad for the souls.the AI also causes the souls to run for cover ASAP and huddle behind it, cluster about or stay static when I move position and generally run about like a bunch of loons. That and blocking your own shots if you don't have shred equipped etc. Yeah, the only way I got it working was as a "meat" shield to hide behind and distraction, which for the energy cost and really long cast time, I didn't think it was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)GENESIS_777 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) As someone who for a while mained Rhino, I agree that Vanguard is single most powerful helmet in game. Its simply too good not to use, and I feel it doesn't just ruin Rhino's theme (and balance, while we're at it), but also singlehandedly destroys any possibility that anyone who has it will ever use any other helmet. I don't think thats a healthy approach to whole thing. No, The Thrak helmet destroys the possibilliy of us using other helmets, Because it's benefits do nothing for rhino unless you are playing low level missions. When you get to the really hard parts of this game no amount of health will save you, when you're shields go down, you go down. and rhino is to slow with out the vanguard helmet. Nevermind slowing him down further. Now i don't know about you, but i dont use rush because there are much better things I can spend 11 points on. So vanguard is not the problem at all. The problem is that people want me to be slower than them just because the sky is blue, and me being faster than them is somehow invalidating their character choice. Edit: You would think that the warframe desgined to eat damage should be able to keep up with the team and be where the damage is. Not three rooms behind, tough as nails for no reason. I know thats where i want my bullet sponge Edited April 26, 2014 by (PS4)GENESIS_777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARLOCKE Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 no no no. Get back on track people. The flavor of the nerf month is Trinity, witha high probability of Nova coming after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 No, The Thrak helmet destroys the possibilliy of us using other helmets, Because it's benefits do nothing for rhino unless you are playing low level missions. When you get to the really hard parts of this game no amount of health will save you, when you're shields go down, you go down. and rhino is to slow with out the vanguard helmet. Nevermind slowing him down further. Now i don't know about you, but i dont use rush because there are much better things I can spend 11 points on. So vanguard is not the problem at all. The problem is that people want me to be slower than them just because the sky is blue, and me being faster than them is somehow invalidating their character choice. Edit: You would think that the warframe desgined to eat damage should be able to keep up with the team and be where the damage is. Not three rooms behind, tough as nails for no reason. I know thats where i want my bullet sponge Please take the time to read through the thread. Most of what you've said has already been said, and counter arguments have been provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Please take the time to read through the thread. Most of what you've said has already been said, and counter arguments have been provided. So this player's opinion is automatically invalidated because their post doesn't meet with your esteemed approval? Who died and made you God of this topic? Also, just because counter arguments to the notion that Vanguard helms with a speed boost are NOT inherently bad exist doesn't automatically mean that this discussion is over. Not by a long shot. The way I see it, you just want to think this argument has been settled - in your favor of course. Sorry, but the last time I checked one person's opinion does not necessarily equal fact...and that goes for everyone. Even me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboomonme Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 So this player's opinion is automatically invalidated because their post doesn't meet with your esteemed approval? Who died and made you God of this topic? Also, just because counter arguments to the notion that Vanguard helms with a speed boost are NOT inherently bad exist doesn't automatically mean that this discussion is over. Not by a long shot. The way I see it, you just want to think this argument has been settled - in your favor of course. Sorry, but the last time I checked one person's opinion does not necessarily equal fact...and that goes for everyone. Even me. *Realized this thread was still alive, comes back in, realizes it's still people making butthurt comments* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) So this player's opinion is automatically invalidated because their post doesn't meet with your esteemed approval? Who died and made you God of this topic? Also, just because counter arguments to the notion that Vanguard helms with a speed boost are NOT inherently bad exist doesn't automatically mean that this discussion is over. Not by a long shot. The way I see it, you just want to think this argument has been settled - in your favor of course. Sorry, but the last time I checked one person's opinion does not necessarily equal fact...and that goes for everyone. Even me. Lrn2Reading Comprehension. You managed to pull a ton of crap that I never said nor implied out two sentences that told the poster to read through the thread, and why. I never said anything about anyone's opinion being invalidated. I never said anything about anybody's opinion needing my approval. I never said the discussion was over. I never said anything about how the argument had settled nor said anything about my standing on this. That post didn't even include a statement on my position in this thread. Please, next time you want to try to read between the lines, do not use my posts as the target. That poster gave response A. -Response A has already been given. --Counter arguments for that response already exist. ---[The logical next step would be to respond to those counter arguments/create a new argument] So jumping back to step one (offering a response) is a waste of time and only leads to people repeating themselves. The person should have read through the thread and responded to the counter arguments that have been provided for what they would have posted. That would have continued the discussion in a way that was beneficial to the thread. Edited April 27, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OblivionNecroninja Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 rhino prime is expensive in one way or another(time investment/monetary investment) so he deserves the might, and with a helm that cost's money or an alert to attain (money/luck) that grants him that speed. i see no issue with this really save for pvp, so wait yea badlands are coming soon so maybe a slight nerf to rhino prime's base speed? Rushers. That's the issue. Filthy, Filthy Rushers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave44 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Dude, I am trying to say that all frames should have at least one drawback in the name of balance. With Vanguard, Rhino has none. There is almost no reason to choose any other frame over Rhino if you have that helmet. >.> You'll be back here whining that the rhinos won't save you in high level survival missions.You were too far away and couldn't get to you in time after being downed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RespectTheInternet Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) You'll be back here whining that the rhinos won't save you in high level survival missions.You were too far away and couldn't get to you in time after being downed. Why in the world would you be so Far away in the first place? This is a team game last I checked. Edited April 27, 2014 by RespectTheInternet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RidingAValkyrie Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 1. Not being the best at something doesn't change the fact that he is good at everything. Being good at everything means he only has one weak area, and that's his sprint speed. Vanguard changes that weak area into a strength. 2. Zephyr and Volt are the only frames capable of keeping up with a rushing, Vanguard wearing, Rhino Prime. Without their abilities they are slower than him. Loki isn't the only frame that can use the Dual Zoren, and if abilities are allowed in their race Rhino Prime wins because Charge moves you in excess of 50 meters with the push of a button (when modded with the necessary mods). 3. Trinity is tankier but has very little CC. Valkyr is tankier, but gets her damage nerfed and still have very little CC. Zephyr can tank better, but she doesn't get the immunity to knockdowns and other such things (I don't think she does much damage either). 4. Yes, when compared to a specialist he seems to fall short. But unlike that specialist, Rhino has other areas that he is also good in. Being mastery locked does not excuse Vanguard taking away his one weak spot. 5. Its 'drawback' is -5% power strength, that is free speed. Hemlock is +10% speed and -5% health, that isn't much of a drawback BUT 10% is only taking her from slow (.95) to a little above average (1.04 IIRC). Rhino goes from .9 to 1.125 (Ash is 1.15), and Rhino Prime goes from 1 to 1.25 (Loki is 1.25). Health scaling poorly means having less of it is even worse. >Doesn't understand what the thread is talking about. >Rants about Rhino's downfall in high level gameplay. >Also doesn't realize how good charge is. http://boards.4chan.org/b/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) You'll be back here whining that the rhinos won't save you in high level survival missions.You were too far away and couldn't get to you in time after being downed. I'm usually the one doing the saving in those missions. My poor squishy loki tends to outlast Rhino. Edited April 27, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Simba_KillzZ Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 (edited) see i disagree to remove all stats from helmets, simply because on most other frames, helmets allow for a specialization and it works with the given frame. It actually fits their role, one of the only exceptions is the vanguard helmet. i'd rather they just readjust it to adding more shields or add something along the lines of making him more of a tank. Edited April 27, 2014 by (PS4)Simba_KillzZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave44 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Why in the world would you be so Far away in the first place? This is a team game last I checked. You must be the only one not to get separated in high level survival missions... It's only a team game when someone goes down or needs help opening a door. Other than that, its a single player game where you just happen to run into other warframes doing the same mission as you. People closing elevators before you get to it, speed running leaving you to deal with the enemies, running to the exit on wave five, not telling you about loot dropped... It's not a team game. Not yet, anyway. Edited April 28, 2014 by Shockwave44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaboomonme Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 You must be the only one not to get separated in high level survival missions... It's only a team game when someone goes down or needs help opening a door. Other than that, its a single player game where you just happen to run into other warframes doing the same mission as you. People closing elevators before you get to it, speed running leaving you to deal with the enemies, running to the exit on wave five, not telling you about loot dropped... It's not a team game. Not yet, anyway. Well, once upon a time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RespectTheInternet Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) You must be the only one not to get separated in high level survival missions... It's only a team game when someone goes down or needs help opening a door. Other than that, its a single player game where you just happen to run into other warframes doing the same mission as you. People closing elevators before you get to it, speed running leaving you to deal with the enemies, running to the exit on wave five, not telling you about loot dropped... It's not a team game. Not yet, anyway. While there is a lot of leeway given to each player in their individual activities, if your doing missions where you have a High chance of getting killed, it's common sense to buddy up or stay with the team. Furthermore, your post is saying that the other's are running away from you, not vice versa. Even then, it's not a justification because that's not a design flaw, your team mates (or yourself) just don't want to play ball. Edited April 28, 2014 by RespectTheInternet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 You must be the only one not to get separated in high level survival missions... It's only a team game when someone goes down or needs help opening a door. Other than that, its a single player game where you just happen to run into other warframes doing the same mission as you. People closing elevators before you get to it, speed running leaving you to deal with the enemies, running to the exit on wave five, not telling you about loot dropped... It's not a team game. Not yet, anyway. Your experiences do not necessarily reflect the experiences of the rest of us. I haven't had an elevator closed on me in a LONG time. Players speed-running missions does not force you to deal with the enemies. Not unless you choose to stick around and deal with them. If you want to know about specific loot drops, you should make sure to tell your teammates. If you want to be told about every drop, you can dump a bucket of cold water over your head and realize that that is a hassle that many of us wouldn't want to be bothered with. If people aren't bothering with teamwork it most likely means they are high leveled enough to take care of things by themselves. Why should they participate in something that is unnecessary at that moment? I also fail to see how 'running to the exit on wave five' is a problem. If they want to leave at wave five on defense that is their choice. If they want to leave after five minutes have passed on survival you can nix that plan by not following. If they get the majority of the group to follow them that means you're the one not playing ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave44 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) If people aren't bothering with teamwork it most likely means they are high leveled enough to take care of things by themselves. Why should they participate in something that is unnecessary at that moment? Thanks for proving my point. While there is a lot of leeway given to each player in their individual activities, if your doing missions where you have a High chance of getting killed, it's common sense to buddy up or stay with the team. Furthermore, your post is saying that the other's are running away from you, not vice versa. Even then, it's not a justification because that's not a design flaw, your team mates (or yourself) just don't want to play ball. I don't need you to analyze it for me. I know exactly why they aren't playing ball. Problem is, that's what shapes the game. Edited April 28, 2014 by Shockwave44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Thanks for proving my point. I don't need you to analyze it for me. I know exactly why they aren't playing ball. Problem is, that's what shapes the game. You claimed it was only a team game when someone was downed or needed help opening a door. My post did not support that notion. Please explain how I proved your point. Sufficiently high level missions usually come down to how well a team works together. The biggest problem I see is that the level of content where that becomes a thing is too high/requires too much time playing to get to that point (talking about well equipped players here of course). Edit: How is this particular conversation relevant to the main topic? Edited April 28, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackram Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The problem is that people want me to be slower than them just because the sky is blue, and me being faster than them is somehow invalidating their character choice. The problem is that for a game about supposed space ninjas, the majority of frames are far to slow and cumbersome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObviousLee Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 its mostly a afterthought seeing that this is going to happen the one argument that people cannot refute and has sadly been dismissed as being troll is the fact that people that cry for nerfs are being inherently selfish and ignorant because of the fact that they want to speak up for what i should build it should be said that something being good does not invalidate your personal choice to use or not use it and its PVE yet you want to combat my personal choice and dictate my options because you feel like its powerful the only time a nerf should be relevant is when it infringes upon others participation to a large extent helmet stats dont do this and i should be able to pick what i want on my screen for my character with out your hands in my decision its rude ignorant and in the real world you would be scrutinized to the highest extent for such selfish child like behavior this is probably my favorite post in the entire thread. dont mind me folks, imma just readin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)GENESIS_777 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The problem is that for a game about supposed space ninjas, the majority of frames are far to slow and cumbersome. Exactly, you're right, so why should rhino be slower than everyone? Oh wait I forgot about balance, He needs to be slow because he's not supposed to be fast. Circular logic anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Exactly, you're right, so why should rhino be slower than everyone? Oh wait I forgot about balance, He needs to be slow because he's not supposed to be fast. Circular logic anyone? Did you even read through the thread? Your post implies the answer is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kripnex Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Excuse me, but what you are proposing here is NOT balance, all that you are saying is that rhino doesn't abide to your idea of an "ideal tank", but this DOES NOT make him imbalanced. What's next? Make laws to enforce gender roles IRL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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