Tsunero Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 God, this is still a thing?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agranesh Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I would like to see DE redesign Rhino's charge skill into Volt like speed boost for himself. Rhino will need something as a means of mobility enhancement to give new player the ability to keep up with a group. Honestly, while Rhino is strong and a good example of the power level DE should balance frames to, his skill set no longer makes sense to his archetype. He used to be a pseudo-tank through being invulnerable and croud controlling, focused around being a tanky bruiser. Now he's some kind of damage buffing all rounder frame, fitting the description of Excalibur more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Good then; so what will be done for Frost since he also happens to have a run speed of 0.9? He suffers the same problem and should either have speed raised to 1 or given a mobility power like you described; Saryn shouldn't be left at .95 speed because nothing needs to be that slow, consider how low armor is a worthless durability device. Valkyr is the biggest reason why durability should not dictate how slow a frame should be; it is by no means fair that the heaviest armored frame is faster than Excalibur. This is only making it more evident that Frost and Rhino's speed is a relic of damage 1.0 and this entire system of Warframe speed need to be fixed now that melee 2.0 is around the corner. Edited March 24, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperWeedy-EGT- Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Free Zoren Copters for everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Funny thing, from where i stand you asking for nerfs are playing the whiners role, dont get me wrong, i am not an anti-nerf guy, but in this particular case i just think it is ridiculous, like i said, you are not willing to give up something you paid for like your excal prime, should i call you a whiner too? Double standards everywhere in here. It isn't a double standard to want your promised exclusive to remain exclusive while also wanting a non-exclusive, easy to acquire (and cheap) helmet item to have its stats pulled. If your purpose in this thread is to beg for excalibur prime I urge you to leave this thread and go QQ/beg somewhere else. There are one-hundred and one different threads on that very topic. Scott is already going to remove the stats on the helm and this is only going to have an outcome of new player being forced to use the Rush mod as a mandatory slotted item instead. Speed is a requirement when all other frames have a higher default speed, and no one wants to wait for the slowpoke. Speed should not be a balance mechanic when it will have the 3 other player finish the assassination mission before a rhino player with .9 speed could get there in time to participate. I would like to see DE redesign Rhino's charge skill into Volt like speed boost for himself. Rhino will need something as a means of mobility enhancement to give new player the ability to keep up with a group. No. Variance in sprint speed is just another thing DE can do to add variety to the frames. If Rhino's slow speed was taken away we'd be at the same problem again. He would have no downsides. What DE should be redesigning is level difficulty. Players should feel the need to wait for their 'tank' to arrive so that it can enter the fray first. Edited March 24, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) No. Variance in sprint speed is just another thing DE can do to add variety to the frames. If Rhino's slow speed was taken away we'd be at the same problem again. He would have no downsides. What DE should be redesigning is level difficulty. Players should feel the need to wait for their 'tank' to arrive so that it can enter the fray first. That isn't true about him being a tank; also, DE can't balance tanks at all and tanks should not have a role in this game. Also, having true tanks would make mission have a prerequisite of requiring both a tank and healer. If DE takes this route you can bet they would buff the Rhino a heck of a lot more than he is currently. Tank implies you're going to be standing there tanking 10s of thousands of damage without moving and all the while having agro skill that force all NPC from targeting other players. Healers are also required for tanks and this would only make DE have to slow the pace of the game to a crawl. Bosses would need numerous changes so they take 5-10 minutes of continues combat to kill with unavoidable damage so healers are given a role. Frost is the only tank by traditional RPG standards, in the sense that he picks a spot and defends it against all adversaries trying to harm himself and his allies. They over buffed him, like I knew they would, and he again trivializes content, but only now it takes slightly more mods. Rhino is a DPS frame with an ablative armor allowing him the option of melee without invisibility (he would be mage/warrior in Kingdom of Amalur). Rhino is out-right inferior to both Ash and Loki as a melee damage dealer, and that places him as more of a ranged DPS dealer. This puts his competition with frames such as Zephyr and Frost that also has an ability set that shields them from ranged attacks (Turbulence is far better verse travel time weapons than iron skin). The balance for armored DPS should be done by having them have a less powerful '1' and '4' than other squishy frames. The CC of stomp shouldn't be immune from power duration penalty and using fleeting expertise should cripple the CC of stomp. Rhino would be the least broken Warframe in game, if just his stomp had the CC element of it changed so it would be hurt drastically by going the maximum efficiency route. No. Variance in sprint speed is just another thing DE can do to add variety to the frames Tailwind is a good example of how a single power changes the way frame can handle without just give them higher running speed. The skills are a under utilized means of giving players unique option of getting from point 'A', to 'B'. Edited March 24, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notionphil Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 And here we are, let the whining begin! Rhino is faster than me, he can outrun and kill me... Oh, wait, it's not a PvP game, the speed gives him no advantage over me! Unless you can kill other players, you're not competing? Let me introduce you to a little thing called "every team sport ever made". Players on the same team are ALSO competing to do the best job for their team, that's why we have a mission summary screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riasiru Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) According to you 'speed doesn't matter, thats why Rhino should remain one of the fastest frames' right? This is called hypocrisy. Speed is like a cookie. The cookie is nice and you want the cookie, but you don't need the cookie and the cookie doesn't change anything... I want the cookie. I want my allies to have the cookie. Cookies for all! Riasiru 2014! Cookies for the masses!! But enough joking around. I will now provide my counter-argument as to why I am not a hypocrite through a more clear cut method. This will take out any of the heavy lifting your brain will have to do to understand my satire. Please review the following two things. The first is something I previously said and the other is copy pasted from the Merriam Webster online dictionary. Sprint Speed is a luxury. lux·u·ry noun \ˈlək-sh(ə-)rē, -zh(ə-)rē\ : a condition or situation of great comfort, ease, and wealth : something that is expensive and not necessary : something that is helpful or welcome and that is not usually or always available Unlike OP I will not use underhanded smear tactics to make my point. (For the record, it isn't smearing if it's true. The fact I called them out on it is not smearing.) I'll point quite happily at the evidence at hand. I even went so far as to do some Thrak Rhino runs with no Rush on today... Didn't make a difference. At all!... I mean, yeah, I had 25 more hp but... Who cares? My sprint speed was so slow it was barely any faster than walking. Didn't even matter. I still ended up playing the say way I always do. Use cover, hold defensive positions, don't run out in front of the death lasers like a moron. Works wonders. Edited March 24, 2014 by Riasiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notionphil Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 : something that is expensive and not necessary --- I even went so far as to do some Thrak Rhino runs with no Rush on today... Didn't make a difference. At all! Not understanding - If you don't find the speed necessary, why are you opposed to Rhino losing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Speed is like a cookie. The cookie is nice and you want the cookie, but you don't need the cookie and the cookie doesn't change anything... I want the cookie. I want my allies to have the cookie. Cookies for all! Riasiru 2014! Cookies for the masses!! But enough joking around. I will now provide my counter-argument as to why I am not a hypocrite through a more clear cut method. This will take out any of the heavy lifting your brain will have to do to understand my satire. Please review the following two things. The first is something I previously said and the other is copy pasted from the Merriam Webster online dictionary. lux·u·ry noun \ˈlək-sh(ə-)rē, -zh(ə-)rē\ : a condition or situation of great comfort, ease, and wealth : something that is expensive and not necessary : something that is helpful or welcome and that is not usually or always available Unlike OP I will not use underhanded smear tactics to make my point. (For the record, it isn't smearing if it's true. The fact I called them out on it is not smearing.) I'll point quite happily at the evidence at hand. I even went so far as to do some Thrak Rhino runs with no Rush on today... Didn't make a difference. At all!... I mean, yeah, I had 25 more hp but... Who cares? My sprint speed was so slow it was barely any faster than walking. Didn't even matter. I still ended up playing the say way I always do. Use cover, hold defensive positions, don't run out in front of the death lasers like a moron. Works wonders. So, as I understand, you are fully supporting a nerf to Vanguard (or just remove the speed helmet bonus and make Rhino average speed - same as Rhino Prime). Ok, my bad calling you a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DanteVincent Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It isn't a double standard to want your promised exclusive to remain exclusive while also wanting a non-exclusive, easy to acquire (and cheap) helmet item to have its stats pulled. If your purpose in this thread is to beg for excalibur prime I urge you to leave this thread and go QQ/beg somewhere else. There are one-hundred and one different threads on that very topic. I am just using analogy here based on a very popular subject, like you have already said, one hundred topics, I am done with that. As for this nerf, they already said it is not gonna happen, they are pulling the stats away from new ones and keeping them in the old because of guess what? Because of people like me who bought it based on their stats, the second i got rhino i bought the helm, so did many, forget it, it is not gonna happen. I dont need their word to have a pomise, when i bought the helmet it was more than a promise, it is analogous to a purchase contract, where i buy something for a reason, and if they strip this thing from the reason why i bought i have every right to demand a refund, or, at the very least, be very pissed. Which then, takes me to the founders analogy, if they can take this backllash, they can take founder's backlash too, in the real world promises mean nothing, the weight you are giving to a promise compared to that of something analogous to a purchase contract is ridiculous. If it ruins your experience just rever it to statless, don't try to drag everybody because you and a handful of others have nothing better to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendantWyvern Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 it is analogous to a purchase contract, where i buy something for a reason, and if they strip this thing from the reason why i bought i have every right to demand a refund, or, at the very least, be very &!$$ed. I'm sorry, but this has become quite the pet peeve of mine. You did not purchase the helmet with your money. You purchased it with Platinum that you bought with your money. They have no legal grounds to uphold a refund for a change to a helmet, nor is it a reason for them not to change it, because the product you purchased was not the helmet. If the Platinum was faulty and failed to work as intended, then refunds or actions are permitted to be taken. If it doesn't change, then the situation revolving around this topic will not change. If it does, you will reserve the right to be pissed off, but you have no legal grounds to take action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DanteVincent Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry, but this has become quite the pet peeve of mine. You did not purchase the helmet with your money. You purchased it with Platinum that you bought with your money. They have no legal grounds to uphold a refund for a change to a helmet, nor is it a reason for them not to change it, because the product you purchased was not the helmet. If the Platinum was faulty and failed to work as intended, then refunds or actions are permitted to be taken. If it doesn't change, then the situation revolving around this topic will not change. If it does, you will reserve the right to be &!$$ed off, but you have no legal grounds to take action. Well, that's the world for you, people that don't agree with each other, like i don't agree with op. Key word : Analogous. Second point , you dont know if i bought plat specifically for that, one way or another, when we star looking for loopholes like you are doing, it is a sign we are going in the wrong direction. Like i said, if it affects you, dont use it, rhino certainly doesnt kill more ore less because of it, and if he needs speed to survive in later waves of defense and long survival run it is because his primary role, the one of a tank, is not good enough. Edited March 24, 2014 by (PS4)DanteVincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendantWyvern Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Second point , you dont know if i bought plat specifically for that, one way or another, when we star looking for loopholes like you are doing, it is a sign we are going in the wrong direction. The thing is, these aren't loopholes I'm discussing. These are simple marketing facts. Should the helmet change, there is no action you can take on lawful grounds because of it. It doesn't matter what you bought the platinum for, because the platinum is the product you purchased. The value of platinum hasn't changed and therefore you have no refund to ask for. I'm not trying to direct this simply at you, I've just seen one too many people stating something similar about many different things they purchased with platinum. DE can refund you if they are feeling kind enough to the players should a change happen, however they have no legal grounds to do so. Edited March 24, 2014 by AscendantWyvern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riasiru Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) So, as I understand, you are fully supporting a nerf to Vanguard (or just remove the speed helmet bonus and make Rhino average speed - same as Rhino Prime). Ok, my bad calling you a hypocrite. Not sure if sarcastic or not, but I'm against removing the stats. I'll explain why in regards to the next quote. Not understanding - If you don't find the speed necessary, why are you opposed to Rhino losing it? Something being necessary and something being fun are two entirely different things. I am quite adamantly opposed to nerfing fun. I know, I'm talking about fun while discussing a video game. That's crazy, I know... Do I think it's strictly needed? No... By all means, if you're running with a speed demon Loki, feel free to casually stroll through the level without ever taking or firing a shot because you won't need to. By the time you show up everyone will be at evac waiting for you. Does that sound fun? Does moving from point A to point B without incident or need for you to even be there sound fun? Honestly? A few people have said it before and I agree with them. If anything, Rhino needs to have his speed buffed. Frost, too. Speed is not a significant stat for balancing frames offensive or defensively. It is only a means of dividing a team by creating a speed advantage for privileged frames. ... Of course, if melee 2.0 does change things, then all of this is moot because sprint speed is significant for melee... But as is, melee is worthless and sprint speed only matters if you're Valkyr, and only when fighting Corpus or Grineer. (Infested line up to get punched.) On that note, melee is currently in the same boat as sprint speed. Fun, but ultimately pointless. (Unless you're Valkyr. Valkyr is a melee god right now.) PS. Yes, I'm aware I just said that speed can matter after I previously stated that speed might not matter. I admit that I'm backpedaling here. The reason for this is that I'm open to the idea I can be wrong and have spent the better part of the last while trying to think of how I could be wrong... Seriously, though. Vanguard helmet on Valkyr? That would be OP as hell! Edited March 24, 2014 by Riasiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DanteVincent Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) The thing is, these aren't loopholes I'm discussing. These are simple marketing facts. Should the helmet change, there is no action you can take on lawful grounds because of it. It doesn't matter what you bought the platinum for, because the platinum is the product you purchased. The value of platinum hasn't changed and therefore you have no refund to ask for. I'm not trying to direct this simply at you, I've just seen one too many people stating something similar about many different things they purchased with platinum. DE can refund you if they are feeling kind enough to the players should a change happen, however they have no legal grounds to do so. See, I would not ask for a refund nor stop playing the game, let alone take this to court lol, because of something as minor as this, fact of the matter is, it would really &!$$ me off and possibly drive me away from future purchases of stuff i dont wanna wait on like weapons, warframes, sentinels, which i occasionally buy because i always have more plat than i need and nowhere to spend it, zephyr and miter to cite examples. And that is because i consider myself an equilibred person, but i can totally see other people being more drastic about it and i wouldnt blame them. Edited March 24, 2014 by (PS4)DanteVincent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 There is no issue with Rhino's speed from a gameplay perspective. It's stylistically in conflict with his "theme" but it doesn't affect the gameplay experience of others in the game with him. Why do you care if he can run fast? At least this way, maybe he'll actually be able to reach you and res you when you go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) That isn't true about him being a tank; also, DE can't balance tanks at all and tanks should not have a role in this game. Also, having true tanks would make mission have a prerequisite of requiring both a tank and healer. If DE takes this route you can bet they would buff the Rhino a heck of a lot more than he is currently. Tank implies you're going to be standing there tanking 10s of thousands of damage without moving and all the while having agro skill that force all NPC from targeting other players. Healers are also required for tanks and this would only make DE have to slow the pace of the game to a crawl. Bosses would need numerous changes so they take 5-10 minutes of continues combat to kill with unavoidable damage so healers are given a role. Frost is the only tank by traditional RPG standards, in the sense that he picks a spot and defends it against all adversaries trying to harm himself and his allies. They over buffed him, like I knew they would, and he again trivializes content, but only now it takes slightly more mods. Rhino is a DPS frame with an ablative armor allowing him the option of melee without invisibility (he would be mage/warrior in Kingdom of Amalur). Rhino is out-right inferior to both Ash and Loki as a melee damage dealer, and that places him as more of a ranged DPS dealer. This puts his competition with frames such as Zephyr and Frost that also has an ability set that shields them from ranged attacks (Turbulence is far better verse travel time weapons than iron skin). The balance for armored DPS should be done by having them have a less powerful '1' and '4' than other squishy frames. The CC of stomp shouldn't be immune from power duration penalty and using fleeting expertise should cripple the CC of stomp. Rhino would be the least broken Warframe in game, if just his stomp had the CC element of it changed so it would be hurt drastically by going the maximum efficiency route. Tailwind is a good example of how a single power changes the way frame can handle without just give them higher running speed. The skills are a under utilized means of giving players unique option of getting from point 'A', to 'B'. I put thank in quotation marks because I know some people disagree with calling Rhino a tank. No it doesn't. That's just the idea some people have from playing other games featuring tanks. A tank is supposed to direct damage away from his team. Whether this is via pulling all the aggro onto yourself or via some other method, it doesn't matter. Rhino can be used to direct damage away from his team. I will agree that Rhino is a terrible tank though. He's now more of a durable jack of all whatever. At lower level missions Rhino also functions as a Tank. I seriously doubt Iron Skin's purpose is melee focused. Rhino being a DPS frame doesn't make a whole lot of sense given his inability to keep outputting damage via any of his skills other than charge and (indirectly) roar. Unless you just meant damage'r rather than dps. If he get's that kind of change he'd still have no stat weakness (assuming vanguard retains its stats). I am just using analogy here based on a very popular subject, like you have already said, one hundred topics, I am done with that. As for this nerf, they already said it is not gonna happen, they are pulling the stats away from new ones and keeping them in the old because of guess what? Because of people like me who bought it based on their stats, the second i got rhino i bought the helm, so did many, forget it, it is not gonna happen. I dont need their word to have a pomise, when i bought the helmet it was more than a promise, it is analogous to a purchase contract, where i buy something for a reason, and if they strip this thing from the reason why i bought i have every right to demand a refund, or, at the very least, be very &!$$ed. Which then, takes me to the founders analogy, if they can take this backllash, they can take founder's backlash too, in the real world promises mean nothing, the weight you are giving to a promise compared to that of something analogous to a purchase contract is ridiculous. If it ruins your experience just rever it to statless, don't try to drag everybody because you and a handful of others have nothing better to do. You are not entitled to a refund. So it looks like you'll have to stick to being angry. Well, that's the world for you, people that don't agree with each other, like i don't agree with op. Key word : Analogous. Second point , you dont know if i bought plat specifically for that, one way or another, when we star looking for loopholes like you are doing, it is a sign we are going in the wrong direction. Like i said, if it affects you, dont use it, rhino certainly doesnt kill more ore less because of it, and if he needs speed to survive in later waves of defense and long survival run it is because his primary role, the one of a tank, is not good enough. Same as above. Again, this isn't about how this affects that or whatever it is that you're talking about. I'll break it down in simple terms: Rhino: strengths- lots. weaknesses- speed. With Vanguard: strengths- lots. weaknesses- none. Not sure if sarcastic or not, but I'm against removing the stats. I'll explain why in regards to the next quote. Something being necessary and something being fun are two entirely different things. I am quite adamantly opposed to nerfing fun. I know, I'm talking about fun while discussing a video game. That's crazy, I know... Do I think it's strictly needed? No... By all means, if you're running with a speed demon Loki, feel free to casually stroll through the level without ever taking or firing a shot because you won't need to. By the time you show up everyone will be at evac waiting for you. Does that sound fun? Does moving from point A to point B without incident or need for you to even be there sound fun? Honestly? A few people have said it before and I agree with them. If anything, Rhino needs to have his speed buffed. Frost, too. Speed is not a significant stat for balancing frames offensive or defensively. It is only a means of dividing a team by creating a speed advantage for privileged frames. ... Of course, if melee 2.0 does change things, then all of this is moot because sprint speed is significant for melee... But as is, melee is worthless and sprint speed only matters if you're Valkyr, and only when fighting Corpus or Grineer. (Infested line up to get punched.) On that note, melee is currently in the same boat as sprint speed. Fun, but ultimately pointless. (Unless you're Valkyr. Valkyr is a melee god right now.) PS. Yes, I'm aware I just said that speed can matter after I previously stated that speed might not matter. I admit that I'm backpedaling here. The reason for this is that I'm open to the idea I can be wrong and have spent the better part of the last while trying to think of how I could be wrong... Seriously, though. Vanguard helmet on Valkyr? That would be OP as hell! I really don't think anyone should be bringing up the "it's fun" argument. That is too subjective to be handled well. Look at what I said above. Ignore this 'oh but I'm so slow, I miss everything' thing that you and others keep bringing up. The argument is purely one of frames being balanced via have drawbacks to counter (in some way) their strengths. Example- If I choose to play a Loki, I know right away that I have to avoid damage due to his low health, shields, and armor value. Same goes for every frame... except a Rhino/RhiPri with Vanguard equipped. Why should Rhino have something that eliminates his weakness/drawback (turning it into a strength)? Wouldn't it make more sense for something to be done in the name of balance. There is no issue with Rhino's speed from a gameplay perspective. It's stylistically in conflict with his "theme" but it doesn't affect the gameplay experience of others in the game with him. Why do you care if he can run fast? At least this way, maybe he'll actually be able to reach you and res you when you go down. Read my other replies. Edited March 24, 2014 by SquirmyBurrito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag272 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) i have a rhino. i also have the vanguard helm. and i haven't used either in months. what is it with you people always saying "because of this reason there is no reason to use (insert random weapon/frame/power here) because there's no reason to use anything else. know what i use? what ever is fun, and right now i get the most enjoyment out of zephyr, my akstiletto, my obex, and my phage. I agree with this honestly, i picked up rhino as probably my 4th/5th frame i think and more recently upped to rhino prime. I used rhino for maybe 2 months with some when i was lower level but now that im higher level and have more access to other frames, other weapons etc theres no need. I havent used rhino for months and have moved onto frames i find much more fun such as volt, trinity, nyx, zephyr, even saryn for a while. Same goes for weapons, i never even touch my soma anymore because i find alot of my other weapons more fun to use, as far as im concerned rhino and soma are more like transitionary gear, atleast they were for me. They're good, strong and reliable weapons but if you want fun then you'll move away from them when you have access to more fun weapons and frames. Ofcourse some people stick with them and thats their choice but i imagine alot of people use them to unlock goals etc then move to more fun loadouts. Edited March 24, 2014 by Jag272 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealPandemonium Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 If you don't want to run fast as Rhino Prime then don't equip the Vanguard Helmet. If your teammates are running fast with their Rhino Primes it has no impact on your gameplay besides allowing them to perform more effectively, indirectly helping you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackram Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Bacon helmet master race. why do you still bother? rhino fanboys don't want to understand that rhino with vanguard was fine but rhino prime with vanguard crossed the line GOTTA GO FAST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) I seriously doubt Iron Skin's purpose is melee focused. Rhino being a DPS frame doesn't make a whole lot of sense given his inability to keep outputting damage via any of his skills other than charge and (indirectly) roar. Unless you just meant damage'r rather than dps. I meant damager or damage orient, as opposed to Frost that can not shake the one-trick pony 'bubble boy' role. Iron skin CC immunity gives Rhino a safe ranking as the 3rd or 4th best melee Warframe in game. When I stated playing I used Rhino almost exclusively for melee, when I wasn't using my Ash. I only stated using guns with him after U8. He still fits the role of an unmovable object in the melee department without the damage bonus that the stealthier Warframes have. If I choose to play a Loki, I know right away that I have to avoid damage due to his low health, shields, and armor value. Same goes for every frame... except a Rhino/RhiPri with Vanguard equipped. The point of Loki and Ash is to do brutal back-stab damage, but that role has vanished with guns being the better choice in every situation. Maybe melee 2.0 will help the back-stabbers, who knows. I have a Rhino Prime, I stuck a rush mod on him and do not care about the Vanguard's stat. I just do not like the standard rhino's .9 speed as it is far too slow to be practical without a rush or a vanguard in a party. Edited March 24, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Break-Away Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Seriously guys. This is a no brainer. Rhino can become faster then frames that actually need that speed! Freaking Ember is really slow despite the fact that she has some of the weakest defenses out of the warframes. Volt would be in the same position if not for speed and shield. Yet we have a Rhino with great defenses on top of greater speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirmyBurrito Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I meant damager or damage orient, as opposed to Frost that can not shake the one-trick pony 'bubble boy' role. Iron skin CC immunity gives Rhino a safe ranking as the 3rd or 4th best melee Warframe in game. When I stated playing I used Rhino almost exclusively for melee, when I wasn't using my Ash. I only stated using guns with him after U8. He still fits the role of an unmovable object in the melee department without the damage bonus that the stealthier Warframes have. The point of Loki and Ash is to do brutal back-stab damage, but that role has vanished with guns being the better choice in every situation. Maybe melee 2.0 will help the back-stabbers, who knows. I have a Rhino Prime, I stuck a rush mod on him and do not care about the Vanguard's stat. I just do not like the standard rhino's .9 speed as it is far too slow to be practical without a rush or a vanguard in a party. I figured as much, just wanted to make sure. Heavy melee weapons have momentum (the jat-whatever) so having cc immunity is largely unnecessary. Speed becomes much more useful when trying to melee (from my person experience with main'ing heavy and light melee weapons). Rhino is better suited just stomping and aiming for headshots. I brought up loki as a quick example. I could also list other frames and their weaknesses as examples. Honestly, I don't mind the fact that Rhino/RhiPri can make up for their weakness with a mod that is available to everyone(frame). Its the fact that he has a helmet (on top of that) that does it slightly worse and has almost no drawback. I used to main a thrak rhino (not saying I didn't use vanguard when it came out), it isn't all that difficult to play that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwalker65 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I agree, as it stands, without Vanguard, Rhino would be considered balanced in my eyes. Powerful and tough, but slow. The vanguard could either use a nerf, or it could use a stat wipe like all the other helmets. I paid for the helmets I have, with the exception of one, with REAL money because they (A): looked good AND (B.) had stats that I found favorable. If DE wants to have purely cosmetic stats going forward, fine, but I paid real money for the helmets I do have and NO, I would not be in favor of any sort of "stat wipe" unless what they were offering was a better value in my opinion. But to do it because a few players and the OP are complaining about "balance" in a game (it's a GAME for crying out loud), I am NOT in favor of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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