Dear Fellow Tennos: There Is Hope!

[ThePresident777]

I have to be bluntly honest, I despise the idea of having more stealth in the game. It's asking for a completely different game from DE, inside the current one, one that is vastly different from the one I grew to like. 

 

It's not something I want, really. 

 

What?  This doesn't sound rational.

[ThePresident777]

I loled.  Aoe kills everything, stealth accomplished.  Pull, Mprime and stomp doesn't kill high levels?  They are now slowed or stunned that they can't activate consoles.  Looks like it's promoting press 4 to win.

 

Dude, it's a Stealth Mission.  It will have stealth mechanics.  You are thinking of something else.

[Eggzodiya]

I hope DE puts on friendly fire, as in allowing the player's weapons and abilities to hit the rescue captive person. But it would deal reduced damage so our OP guns and ultimate nukes won't kill him as quickly. This would practically force us to think about what we're going to do instead of running in there, guns-a-blazing without much thought to the captive's survival.

[Kinperor]

the garbage attempts at stealth mechanics in this game are more than enough to render it irrelevent regardless of whatever meaningless blurb of napkin-written lore exists somewhere on the front page

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to say? 

 

I also stated that, indirectly, stealth is not a primary means of shinobi to carry out their actions. 

"...that mastered the arts of not only stealth, but misdirection and elusiveness."

Some of our frames take advantage of elusiveness

Loki; invisibility, decoy, switch teleport.

Ash; smoke screen, teleport.

Zephyr, due to her 'flight' abilites giving her dramatically increased control for high ground advantages

Maybe even Saryn with her shed skin

Some even are good with misdirection

Loki; same thing.

Nyx; her whole mind control theme like chaos and her 1 ability.

No matter what you say, all frames can and/or will be associated with the historical association of ninjas. 

As I had said before, this is a game. But just because it's a game, it does not render the concepts behind Warframe irrelevant.

 

 

I don't see how any of that matters. I would play Deus Ex Human Revolution or Dishonored if I wanted stealth, misdirection or whatever. 

 

As for your list of examples, the vast majority of the game is still built around full frontal assaults, with a couple of frames who happen to maybe fit your umbrella definition of ninja (I mean, Zephyr? That's a stretch). 

 

No matter what you cherry pick to make a nice list, the fact is that Tenno as a whole have been more "warrior" than "ninja" since day one. There certainly is a couple of frame that can be more subtle, but as long as the likes of Ember, Volt, Rhino and Vauban are there, there's nothing pigeon-holing the Tenno as a group into an historical "ninja" association. 

 

 

What?  This doesn't sound rational.

 

What is hard to understand, I don't desire stealth to be in the game. I'm not fanatic about keeping stealth out of Warframe, but if the decision was mine, I would just not add that system because I don't care for it. DE's resource could be used on other stuff than stealth. 

[aa3123]

Dude, it's a Stealth Mission.  It will have stealth mechanics.  You are thinking of something else.

No, because aoe kills count as stealth kills.  And for the love of god, use the multiquote function.

[CandyDragon]

Dude, it's a Stealth Mission.  It will have stealth mechanics.  You are thinking of something else.

stealth mechanics in warframe barely exist. And consist of only the basest concepts of "have not seen player" or "have not heard weapon fire"

 

Wwhich, given our small list of weapons that are "silent" and the overall randomness to spawning + map layout, is silly to expect it to ever be functional.

[cro-dog]

it's pretty obvious that stealth is totally hopeless as a mechanic in warframe when the only way the devs can get people to use it is in the most artificial way possible, i.e., "use stealth or you automatically fail the mission." if it fit naturally within the current mechanics of the game then it'd already be there as a viable alternative to gunplay. they wouldn't need to shove it down your throat in the worst, lamest way possible

 

you might as well have levels that force you to beat X waves of flappy zephyr, it'd be about as congruent as forced stealth is to current gameplay

[ThePresident777]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say? 

 

 

I don't see how any of that matters. I would play Deus Ex Human Revolution or Dishonored if I wanted stealth, misdirection or whatever. 

 

As for your list of examples, the vast majority of the game is still built around full frontal assaults, with a couple of frames who happen to maybe fit your umbrella definition of ninja (I mean, Zephyr? That's a stretch). 

 

No matter what you cherry pick to make a nice list, the fact is that Tenno as a whole have been more "warrior" than "ninja" since day one. There certainly is a couple of frame that can be more subtle, but as long as the likes of Ember, Volt, Rhino and Vauban are there, there's nothing pigeon-holing the Tenno as a group into an historical "ninja" association. 

 

 

 

What is hard to understand, I don't desire stealth to be in the game. I'm not fanatic about keeping stealth out of Warframe, but if the decision was mine, I would just not add that system because I don't care for it. DE's resource could be used on other stuff than stealth. 

 

Stealth is in the game and has been in the game for at least a year.  So, the fact that not all Warframes are good at stealth, means nothing here.  Not all the Warframes have to be good at stealth.

 

I don't like it therefore I don't want it is a very poor excuse.  The rest of us are not here to play how you want.  It's the same as saying that DE should not make any other games except Warframe, and make it the way you like it.

 

[ThePresident777]

No, because aoe kills count as stealth kills.  And for the love of god, use the multiquote function.

 

It's going to be a Stealth mission.  They can change the mechanics in the missions to make the mission work.

[ThePresident777]

stealth mechanics in warframe barely exist. And consist of only the basest concepts of "have not seen player" or "have not heard weapon fire"

 

Wwhich, given our small list of weapons that are "silent" and the overall randomness to spawning + map layout, is silly to expect it to ever be functional.

 

What?  "It's not good now so it will never be good!"  That makes no sense.

[ThePresident777]

it's pretty obvious that stealth is totally hopeless as a mechanic in warframe when the only way the devs can get people to use it is in the most artificial way possible, i.e., "use stealth or you automatically fail the mission." if it fit naturally within the current mechanics of the game then it'd already be there as a viable alternative to gunplay. they wouldn't need to shove it down your throat in the worst, lamest way possible

 

you might as well have levels that force you to beat X waves of flappy zephyr, it'd be about as congruent as forced stealth is to current gameplay

 

All the Stealth games are "use stealth or fail".  All games are about "do this or fail".  Do the right thing is how you define winning and doing the wrong thing is how you define losing.  It's like that in every single game, not just video games, sports too.

 

P.S.  Circumstances matter.

Edited March 23, 2014 by ThePresident777

[CandyDragon]

What?  "It's not good now so it will never be good!"  That makes no sense.

No, its just stupid to build a mission to utilize stealth, when stealth is currently not functional.

 

Its very backwards in how that should have progressed.

[cro-dog]

No, its just stupid to build a mission to utilize stealth, when stealth is currently not functional.

 

Its very backwards in how that should have progressed.

 

pretty much. to make stealth work well in this game they'd basically have to burn down what we have now and rebuild it from the ground up

 

All the Stealth games are "use stealth or fail".  All games are about "do this or fail".  Do the right thing is how you define winning and doing the wrong thing is how you define losing.  It's like that in every single game, not just video games, sports too.

 

yeah, man, like, it depends on what the definition of "is" is, man

[aa3123]

It's going to be a Stealth mission.  They can change the mechanics in the missions to make the mission work.

They can also change the void survival and defense loot problem 3 weeks ago.

 

And for the love of god, use the multiquote function.

 

And for the love of god, use the multiquote function.

 

And for the love of god, use the multiquote function.

 

And for the love of god, use the multiquote function.

 

And for the love of god, use the multiquote function.

[Kinperor]

Stealth is in the game and has been in the game for at least a year.  So, the fact that not all Warframes are good at stealth, means nothing here.  Not all the Warframes have to be good at stealth.

 

I don't like it therefore I don't want it is a very poor excuse.  The rest of us are not here to play how you want.  It's the same as saying that DE should not make any other games except Warframe, and make it the way you like it.

 

I'm not sure why you are taking issue with me stating my opinion. It's fine if you want stealth, 100% OK by me (and for that matter you don't need my approval).

 

The reason that I don't want stealth being, it was never the point of the game. Yes, it has been in the game for 1 year, and it was very pointless for that year. It was shoddily added to the game and then promptly forgotten. Yes, some frames can be good with stealth, and every frame doesn't need to be good for stealth, that's true. 

 

I know full well that if DE doesn't work on the stealth, it just can't improve and would stay S#&$ty. But I have been playing 1 year giving without caring about stealth, and I have no desire to see it be improved. I would rather see the other broken/incomplete mechanic of the game be fixed thoroughly instead of diverting manpower to stealth. 

 

Note: I know that DE is a multidisciplinary team and that not everyone would work on stealth. I'd rather have these people work on other stuff in their domain. 

 

Note II: This is my opinion, if it wasn't clear. I have my personal priorities for the game, you can have yours. 

[ThePresident777]

No, its just stupid to build a mission to utilize stealth, when stealth is currently not functional.

 

Its very backwards in how that should have progressed.

 

It's not backwards or stupid at all because you can't have stealth game play if the rest of the team is rushing around doing whatever and they succeed the missions anyway.  It's like trying to play football during a baseball game.  You play football in a football stadium with a football referee, not in a baseball stadium with a baseball referee.  Every missions has to have it's own rules and success has to be judged by it's rules.

[ThePresident777]

They can also change the void survival and defense loot problem 3 weeks ago.

 

Really, that's all you've got?

[ThePresident777]

I'm not sure why you are taking issue with me stating my opinion. It's fine if you want stealth, 100% OK by me (and for that matter you don't need my approval).

 

The reason that I don't want stealth being, it was never the point of the game. Yes, it has been in the game for 1 year, and it was very pointless for that year. It was shoddily added to the game and then promptly forgotten. Yes, some frames can be good with stealth, and every frame doesn't need to be good for stealth, that's true. 

 

I know full well that if DE doesn't work on the stealth, it just can't improve and would stay S#&$ty. But I have been playing 1 year giving without caring about stealth, and I have no desire to see it be improved. I would rather see the other broken/incomplete mechanic of the game be fixed thoroughly instead of diverting manpower to stealth. 

 

Note: I know that DE is a multidisciplinary team and that not everyone would work on stealth. I'd rather have these people work on other stuff in their domain. 

 

Note II: This is my opinion, if it wasn't clear. I have my personal priorities for the game, you can have yours. 

 

You've been playing one year without all the new stuff that DE is going to add.  I guess they shouldn't add it.  Warframe should never improve.

Edited March 24, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Verryn]

There's a multiquote button right beside the quote button. It's very helpful to avoid posting again and again. :)

[Kinperor]

You've been playing one year without all the new stuff that DE is going to add.  I guess they shouldn't add it.  Warframe should never improve.

 

Quite to the contrary, Warframe should improve (and improved in the past). I don't think the stealth aspect is one worth improving on. 

 

By that logic, I could find something you don't want to see included -- like, say, MLP-ponies -- and then say it should be included. And then, when you clearly don't want it included, I call you out for wanting the game to stagnate. 

 

Please don't use fallacies. 

Edited March 24, 2014 by Kinperor

[CorrTerek]

Observe the power of multiquote as I quote from two different posts!

 

It's not backwards or stupid at all because you can't have stealth game play if the rest of the team is rushing around doing whatever and they succeed the missions anyway.  It's like trying to play football during a baseball game.  You play football in a football stadium with a football referee, not in a baseball stadium with a baseball referee.  Every missions has to have it's own rules and success has to be judged by it's rules.

 

Yeah, because you always have to play with a team, am I right? 

 

Stealth play would have been perfect for solo players, but instead we got a shoddy and broken mechanic with practically no improvement for a year. And now they're going to require us to use said shoddy and broken mechanic rather than overhauling the mechanic first. 

 

You've been playing one year without all the new stuff that DE is going to add.  I guess they shouldn't add it.  Warframe should never improve.

 

Uh...no. That's not what he said. 

 

They had one year to polish stealth. They had an entire freaking year to sell us on the concept. And they let it rot. We played a year without stealth, not because it wasn't available to us (because it was, which is where your "analogy" fails) but because it sucked and they made barely any attempt to fix it. We have seen other mechanics in the game get overhauled much, much quicker than that. 

[Aercascade]

I can stealth missions fine. Silent Weapons or the hush mods does wonders. The mechanic isn't broken either. Just don't walk into their line of sight, be mindful of where you're walking; what you're doing and you won't get caught. Simple.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Sutherland

[CorrTerek]

I can stealth missions fine. Silent Weapons or the hush mods does wonders. The mechanic isn't broken either. Just don't walk into their line of sight, be mindful of where you're walking; what you're doing and you won't get caught. Simple.

 

Except when enemies spawn right behind you in the room you just cleared. That tends to suck.

 

Also, the fact that I can run through a level, kill a boss, and then extract without breaking stealth -- while using a rocket launcher -- does not speak well for the stealth in this game. 

[RavenousPartyLibrarian]

They had one year to polish stealth. They had an entire freaking year to sell us on the concept. And they let it rot. We played a year without stealth, not because it wasn't available to us (because it was, which is where your "analogy" fails) but because it sucked and they made barely any attempt to fix it. We have seen other mechanics in the game get overhauled much, much quicker than that. 

 

They are polishing stealth next, though.

Stealth is a pretty major mechanic. Things like that take time and effort to work on, and DE has apparently had bigger priorities. We're on our second major overhaul here as far as I'm concerned. First was Damage, which has obviously been around for a while. Second is Melee, which... yep, been here from the start. Stealth will be improved as well. It has always been a part of the game, and just because certain players prefer ramboframe, or because DE has had other priorities, it's not going to be left out.

Edited March 24, 2014 by RavenousPartyLibrarian

[neKroMancer]

I'm not particularly thrilled by rescue overhaul by adding mandatory stealth. Mostly because of most stealth games develop stealth before combat (splinter cell, MGS). Not mention that tileset mechanic in Warframe is not really good for stealth mission. The AI also requires different detection mechanic compared to what it has now (Rhino can practically run at full speed and those Grineer won't hear a thing).

Another thing to consider is stealth isn't really stealth without no kill/no detect option that gives player equal or greater reward compared to the usual run&gun gameplay.