Dear Fellow Tennos: There Is Hope!

[Deidaku]

I would have prefered a theft mission which would make more sense to use stealth .

Made a thread about a concept!

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/198156-game-mode-concept-theft/

[Aercascade]

Except when enemies spawn right behind you in the room you just cleared. That tends to suck.

 

Also, the fact that I can run through a level, kill a boss, and then extract without breaking stealth -- while using a rocket launcher -- does not speak well for the stealth in this game. 

 

That's probably because you killed a good majority of the enemies and gave them little time to actually hit the alarms. Rushing tends to do that.

 

As for enemies spawning behind you. I've got a video up of me stealthing through a mission and whilst it is annoying, thanks to the way alarms work now. Even if they do actually sound the alarm it isn't entirely difficult to set things straight. As far as I'm concerned I see it as just another way to encourage you to move through the levels faster.

 

 

 

They are polishing stealth next, though.

Stealth is a pretty major mechanic. Things like that take time and effort to work on, and DE has apparently had bigger priorities. We're on our second major overhaul here as far as I'm concerned. First was Damage, which has obviously been around for a while. Second is Melee, which... yep, been here from the start. Stealth will be improved as well. It has always been a part of the game, and just because certain players prefer ramboframe, or because DE has had other priorities, it's not going to be left out.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Sutherland

[(PSN)TheShinigamiGod]

Quite to the contrary, Warframe should improve (and improved in the past). I don't think the stealth aspect is one worth improving on. 

 

By that logic, I could find something you don't want to see included -- like, say, MLP-ponies -- and then say it should be included. And then, when you clearly don't want it included, I call you out for wanting the game to stagnate. 

 

Please don't use fallacies. 

i want them to be in included XP

[CorrTerek]

Stealth will be improved as well. It has always been a part of the game, and just because certain players prefer ramboframe, or because DE has had other priorities, it's not going to be left out.

 

Er, didn't stealth get added with Banshee in Update, what, Seven? Pretty sure it hasn't always been part of the game.

 

Regardless, to use a current example -- Damage 2.0 -- once it was introduced DE kept tweaking it. Melee 2.0 will be the same way, probably. Mods 2.0 has been tweaked constantly since it was implemented. But stealth? Eh, add it to the game and forget about it. 

 

That's probably because you killed a good majority of the enemies and gave them little time to actually hit the alarms. Rushing tends to do that.

 

Yes, I'm aware of why it happens. And, as a sidenote, I've done this with Vauban without even bothering to sprint. The point is, I shouldn't be able to do that. Firing a freakin' rocket launcher should set off all kinds of alarms, because a rocket launcher is like the very definition of "not stealthy". But the fact that we can "stealth" with almost any weapon as long as it's sufficiently forma'd is kind of a bad thing as far as stealth systems go. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

Why is this a debate ?

We've all known the devs took issue with the state of mechanics like Stealth and Rushing in the game for some time now.

Moreover, the players are the ones who said, " I don't like rescue missions".

We not only knew this was coming... We also asked for it.

It's a small part of the gameplay overall and, obviously, there is a portion of the playerbase who are going to be bananas for it.

 

I, for one, am glad to see another gameplay option that doesn't include rush to item A and explode as many enemies as you can find en route. If stealth is implemented well, it will be a great addition.

[aa3123]

Really, that's all you've got?

Actually no, I also said:

 

And for the love of god, use the multiquote function.

 

But you like to artificially increase your post counts as well as double the size of posts in this topic.

 

But back on topic, I merely state how the game is and you just say "they'll change it up to fit how I like it, period".  You simply fail to realize that aoe kills when the enemy does not see you count as stealth.  Well, honestly I don't care either way.  If they give you the stealth you want so you have one less excuse to increase your posts counts, great.  But until then, aoe vs low levels is still more useful for stealth in the game right now then to creep up behind every enemy. 

[BizarreFetalChimpanzee]

No there's not.

[ThePresident777]

Quite to the contrary, Warframe should improve (and improved in the past). I don't think the stealth aspect is one worth improving on.

By that logic, I could find something you don't want to see included -- like, say, MLP-ponies -- and then say it should be included. And then, when you clearly don't want it included, I call you out for wanting the game to stagnate.

Please don't use fallacies.

Actually, if you were to read through my posts you would see that I have consistently advocated for separation of concerns as I am doing here. My concern isn't so much what is in the game, but being forced to use it. I keep telling the nerfers this. There are many things in this game that I don't waste my time and money on much or at all and you'll never here me asking for it to be removed. If I had my way, I would roll back Warframe to April 2013 and keep bug fixes and some of the content. But, I've never asked DE to do anything even remotely like this. DE is preparing content right now that I'm not enthusiastic about and I'm not telling them to stop. All I ask is that they not ruin my fun. I don't mind at all if they want to entertain other people, as long as it doesn't spoil my fun. The only way to do that is through choice, separation of concerns, sandboxes.

 

Observe the power of multiquote as I quote from two different posts!

Yeah, because you always have to play with a team, am I right?

Stealth play would have been perfect for solo players, but instead we got a shoddy and broken mechanic with practically no improvement for a year. And now they're going to require us to use said shoddy and broken mechanic rather than overhauling the mechanic first.

Uh...no. That's not what he said.

They had one year to polish stealth. They had an entire freaking year to sell us on the concept. And they let it rot. We played a year without stealth, not because it wasn't available to us (because it was, which is where your "analogy" fails) but because it sucked and they made barely any attempt to fix it. We have seen other mechanics in the game get overhauled much, much quicker than that.

So what? They didn't meet your deadline so now it's mission impossible?

If you feel forced to use it, and you don't want to, you can raise the issue and DE can do something about it.

 

I'm not particularly thrilled by rescue overhaul by adding mandatory stealth. Mostly because of most stealth games develop stealth before combat (splinter cell, MGS). Not mention that tileset mechanic in Warframe is not really good for stealth mission. The AI also requires different detection mechanic compared to what it has now (Rhino can practically run at full speed and those Grineer won't hear a thing).

Another thing to consider is stealth isn't really stealth without no kill/no detect option that gives player equal or greater reward compared to the usual run&gun gameplay.

Those are valid concerns. I'm sure something can be worked out.

 

Actually no, I also said:

But you like to artificially increase your post counts as well as double the size of posts in this topic.

But back on topic, I merely state how the game is and you just say "they'll change it up to fit how I like it, period". You simply fail to realize that aoe kills when the enemy does not see you count as stealth. Well, honestly I don't care either way. If they give you the stealth you want so you have one less excuse to increase your posts counts, great. But until then, aoe vs low levels is still more useful for stealth in the game right now then to creep up behind every enemy.

Dude, there is no post count score board, relax. Next, you'll be complaining about people Mpriming the forums to out score everybody.

I'm sure DE can do something about AoE and stealth.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Letter13
There is a multiquote function. Use it.

[Veridantus]

Actually, it's not a meant to be fully stealth.. All you have to do is prevent them from raising the alarm..
Geoff said something like "you may have to go stealth as to not raise the alarm & get the hostage executed" or something similar..

[ThePresident777]

Actually, it's not a meant to be fully stealth.. All you have to do is prevent them from raising the alarm..

Geoff said something like "you may have to go stealth as to not raise the alarm & get the hostage executed" or something similar..

 

Isn't that stealth?

[Psychus]

if i remeber it says ninjas play free, you dont like stealth, well what did you expect you signed up for a ninja game

Space Wizards.

[kaboomonme]

Space Wizards.

Damn straight.

Also, not to derail the hype train or anything, but try not to get your hopes TOO high until we at least get a glimpse of what is coming.

Gameplay so far has been nothing more than a DPS-race, so for now, I fail to see how well they can implement a stealth gamemode without re-hauling a good portion of the existing elements.

[H.Katsura_999]

OK, go stealth, prevent enemy from ringing alarm, get hostage. got it

Goes loki with perma invisibility build

"stealthily" runs around making a lot of noise that no one notices

"stealthily" murders every enemy loki sees to prevent them from sounding the alarm

"stealthily" rescues hostage by hacking a noisy control pad that triggers no alarm indicating that the prisoner's cell was opened

"stealthily" leaves the now empty facility leaving behind a trail of corpses that no one will notice because loki bloody killed them all

Tenno "stealth". wow such awesome

Edited March 24, 2014 by H.Katsura_999

[CorrTerek]

So what? They didn't meet your deadline so now it's mission impossible?

If you feel forced to use it, and you don't want to, you can raise the issue and DE can do something about it.

 

 

...No. I'm saying that stealth sucks and that making it a requirement is doomed to fail unless you overhaul the stealth system first. I'm also saying that people haven't used stealth for the last year because it sucks, not because it wasn't available. Please try to keep up with the actual conversation. 

 

And, uh, I am raising the issue. Right now. Before DE starts forcing us to use it. I'm telling them "Please don't make stealth a requirement unless you're willing to actually make it work."

[Veridantus]

Isn't that stealth?

Not really.

Use volt/nova/ember/nukers,

get in a tile,

use 4 & kill everything on tile before any enemy managed to sound the alarm.

Not really stealth..

[ThePresident777]

Also, not to derail the hype train or anything, but try not to get your hopes TOO high until we at least get a glimpse of what is coming.

Gameplay so far has been nothing more than a DPS-race, so for now, I fail to see how well they can implement a stealth gamemode without re-hauling a good portion of the existing elements.

 

I'm not expecting a massive change over night.  But the fact that you have to use stealth to succeed at the mission shows prioritization.  That is an improvement that will require furthur improvements but I think it's worth it.

 

Yes, there will be a lot of nashing and bashing along the way just when DE could use the encouragement the most.  But, DE is just going to have to cut through the noise and focus on good long term ideas rather than expediency and living day by day.

[ThePresident777]

Not really.

Use volt/nova/ember/nukers,

get in a tile,

use 4 & kill everything on tile before any enemy managed to sound the alarm.

Not really stealth..

 

That's easy to solve.  If a massive energy release doesn't set off the alarms, I don't know what does.

Edited March 27, 2014 by ThePresident777

[Veridantus]

That's easy to solve.  If an massive energy release doesn't set off the alarms, I don't know what does.

Even without using 4th skills, most team of 4 can clean a room of enemies quickly.. Granted it would be loud with guns blazing & all,

but as long as no alarm are sounded, we're still fine.. 

[Ritchel]

you guys mean..

 

tenchu z style stealths?

 

hmm awesomesauce

[ENDER357]

TBH when i think ninja i think Snake from MGS, he was a master at stealth and weapons as well, he never limited himself to only doing one thing

 

for the stealth in rescue missions, its literally taking the most frustrating game mode and then making it worse by making you have to use stealth, at least give the target innate stealth and semi invisibility, the AI is just not smart enough for this, or make the rescue target another player with only hand to hand combat availible

[ThePresident777]

Even without using 4th skills, most team of 4 can clean a room of enemies quickly.. Granted it would be loud with guns blazing & all,

but as long as no alarm are sounded, we're still fine.. 

 

Again, not hard to solve.  You're thinking of the rest of the game.  This is something different.  It is it's own space, and that is the important point.  It is not bound by the rest of the game.

[Shailocke]

de: gee, what do gamers like more than escort missions? hey, i know! forced stealth!

 

They're not forcing it. They stated that you'll be able to shoot your way out, which is why you can currently give the hostage your sidearm. They said that stealth would be the optimal approach to breaking the hostage out (which makes sense when you think about it). But it's entirely possible to just shot everything in sight. I also imagine they'd make it more difficult if you're avoiding stealth.