Volt_Cruelerz Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) It's been brought up before as a suggestion, but honestly, what's wrong with the idea of letting every helmet come with a built-in "core" that determines its stats. You can then swap cores to your heart's content, provided that they came from the same frame. Existing helmets would just be broken apart into their cosmetic and stat components, letting people choose what to wear because they like it and what to use because it works with their build. Why do we need to yank all future stats? Are some of them imbalanced (Vanguard)? Yes. But does mean we need to remove all of them? No... I guess I'm just at a loss for why this simple solution is being passed over for a more radical one that will make future players complain about how it isn't fair that they can't have a "proper" Vanguard Prime. Edited March 23, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)natek_morzy Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Perhaps it's because the decision they chose was even more simple. I'm expecting Rebecca to note all of the buzz surrounding this future change so she can bring it up in the next Devstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aka_Miso Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Ever since i started warframe ive had this idea but now de is in to deep to fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verryn Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Perhaps it's because the decision they chose was even more simple. I'm expecting Rebecca to note all of the buzz surrounding this future change so she can bring it up in the next Devstream. Indeed for simplicity's sake it would seem they should just remove it and let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenousPartyLibrarian Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'd be satisfied with a balance of the stats of some of them, but I guess this is okay. At least now helmets won't be seemingly mandatory. How many [advanced] trinities do you see without aura, or how many [advanced] rhinos do you see without vanguard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoshLovesYou Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'm guessing this idea might either get co-opted into the upcoming planned Focus mechanics for overleveled warframes/weapons, letting such stats exist as something you build towards and expand upon, or as Tenno Reinforcement alternate equipables modifications you can craft/forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direcyphre Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'd say you've been here long enough to remember that statless helmets have always been asked for, as cosmetics should remain purely cosmetic. Most of the first generation helmets had really terrible stats for that matter, so it was never seen much as a positive addition. I think I'll stand behind DE's move to make it optional to just remove the stat, as well as phasing out stat helmets altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'd say you've been here long enough to remember that statless helmets have always been asked for, as cosmetics should remain purely cosmetic. Most of the first generation helmets had really terrible stats for that matter, so it was never seen much as a positive addition. I think I'll stand behind DE's move to make it optional to just remove the stat, as well as phasing out stat helmets altogether. But if we let people choose the stats, what's wrong with that? Wouldn't it be a case of everyone wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direcyphre Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 But if we let people choose the stats, what's wrong with that? Wouldn't it be a case of everyone wins? We are getting the option to choose. You either like the stats or you don't, so you either keep your stat helmets or convert them. They also hadn't quite mentioned it, but I imagine you could straight up build/buy a new statless helmets if you wanted the option to switch on the fly at random, despite how unlikely that would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Perhaps it's because the decision they chose was even more simple. Even simplier idea would be to just remove stats from helmet and leave them alone. They havent chosen it because of simplicity, they have chosen it because... idk it doesnt make sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribboz Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 They should have just made it optional. Everyone would be happy then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seox Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Even simplier idea would be to just remove stats from helmet and leave them alone. They havent chosen it because of simplicity, they have chosen it because... idk it doesnt make sense at all. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/200177-the-future-of-stat-helmets-and-their-existence-info-thread/#entry2326490 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) We are getting the option to choose. You either like the stats or you don't, so you either keep your stat helmets or convert them. They also hadn't quite mentioned it, but I imagine you could straight up build/buy a new statless helmets if you wanted the option to switch on the fly at random, despite how unlikely that would be. But you can't pick the stats of one helmet and the looks of another. Let alone new players without the choice. That's my point. Edited March 24, 2014 by Volt_Cruelerz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 It's a unique level of customization that should have offered a boost in a specific beneficial or superior trait/ability focus at the cost of another for each Warframe. They never should have increased or harmed already deficient areas, especially to the point they exceeded other frames. That was one of the key failings of stats. We probably would have never been to this point if it wasn't for that. Rhino stat modifications should have effected Rhino's strengths. Power Strength, armor, shields, range maybe.And not touched his speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurricaneBones Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Helmets Stats are broken. The only solution is to remove stats for all past helmets, No stats for EVERYONE ! Please don't let Old players having better helmets than New players !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazmanyak Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I want to keep my stats helmets. I also agree with OP, this would have been the better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscendantWyvern Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Agreed, I've repeatedly stated my support over a subject like this, and I'll love to see this happen in the near future. It's certainly a superior solution to "Optional stat removal". Programming shouldn't be much worse than what's currently be done (I'm no programmer, so feel free to correct me on that.) Add on top of the Aura slot a "Helmet core" slot and add helmet mods that come with the stat helmets. Maybe even with all having access we can find balancing show itself. (Imagine Vanguard Loki...just imagine it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volt_Cruelerz Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Helmets Stats are broken. The only solution is to remove stats for all past helmets, No stats for EVERYONE ! Please don't let Old players having better helmets than New players !!! I don't want new players to be behind in this way either which is part of why I don't like the new system. I'm just trying to propose one that would make everyone win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LascarCapable Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) It's been brought up before as a suggestion, but honestly, what's wrong with the idea of letting every helmet come with a built-in "core" that determines its stats. You can then swap cores to your heart's content, provided that they came from the same frame. Existing helmets would just be broken apart into their cosmetic and stat components, letting people choose what to wear because they like it and what to use because it works with their build. Why do we need to yank all future stats? Are some of them imbalanced (Vanguard)? Yes. But does mean we need to remove all of them? No... I guess I'm just at a loss for why this simple solution is being passed over for a more radical one that will make future players complain about how it isn't fair that they can't have a "proper" Vanguard Prime. I'd suggest a bit more : equilibrating all stats, and making them usable by all frames. I don't think that would hurt that much. Nice idea anyway. Edited March 24, 2014 by Einde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myocarde Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Upvoted. I support the idea of separating stats from helmets back from the time when statless helmets were first introduced. To be honest, i see no point in them being just cosmetic items, whereas i find the idea of rebalancing your warframe with an item, not just mods, interesting. The tradeoffs should be percent-based, having a certain numerical "floor" when they can't go lower. For example, lower shields/hp/armour for a higher ability power. Like with Rhino's Vanguard, lower AP for a faster runspeed. This will actually bring more variety to the game. Right now it's "mandatory mods, mandatory builds" and by removing the stat helmets the players will be actually left with less choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThousandDogs Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Someone once suggested moving the stat mods that certain helms have to a Systems slot, which would mean customization of base warframe stats, which is a thing that I am all up ons for late-game players. So what I'm saying is I support this idea. Edited March 25, 2014 by ThousandDogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrocius Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Anything that changes the look of your Warframes (helmets / syandanas / any other upcoming things we're getting) should be purely cosmetic and not affect your stats in any way. That being said, its great having another way to customize our Warframes performance aside from mods, especially with alt helmet's stats having a bonus and drawback like a minor Corrupted mod. I'd like to either see a "subsystem" slot that takes their place, or something rolled into the upcoming focus system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Why do we need to yank all future stats? Are some of them imbalanced (Vanguard)? Yes. But does mean we need to remove all of them? No... I guess I'm just at a loss for why this simple solution is being passed over for a more radical one that will make future players complain about how it isn't fair that they can't have a "proper" Vanguard Prime. Scott's solution could result in a future decision to retroactively remove the stats from beta user. Then the stats will likely make an appearance again in the focus system after people complain and rage at him. This entire helmet plan will likely end up as a gift that keeps on giving DE headaches. Edited March 25, 2014 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danakar Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 As stated in another thread I still believe that the best approach would have been to give helmets a 'helmet slot' and turn all these effects into 'helmet mods'. That way people can equip the helmet they like with the helmet mod they like. Problem solved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davoodoo Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) As stated in another thread I still believe that the best approach would have been to give helmets a 'helmet slot' and turn all these effects into 'helmet mods'. That way people can equip the helmet they like with the helmet mod they like. Problem solved? Not really some frames will have empty mod slot without anything to insert there, implementing this is extra work + extra work to make bonus stats for each extra helmet. It is best idea to just leave helmet aesthetics like they are now but add "stats" to appearance showing only to those who had those helmets and letting you put specific helmet parts/core/whatever which will increase stats. or You can remove stats all together and dont give a f***. Edited March 25, 2014 by Davoodoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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